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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kato
Meh, I was rather disappointed. While it was a bit entertaining there really didn't happen that much... Also, when did all ninjas become sensors again? :smallconfused:
Don't get me wrong, Zodiac is right saying it's a nice combination of "silly powerful" but... there just wasn't much in this weeks chapter that happened. I guess next week will be more interesting.
It's a chapter leading up into a flashback. Of course nothing happened :smalltongue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kato
I'll take that but they also feel Madara's presence and Minato Naruto/the Kyubi (though while this kind of makes sense it's not mandatory)
Well, in the case of Madara, atleast two of them have familiarity with him, and if Madara is as strong as the First hokage, who can almost destroy an entire room by getting slightly angry, then I'll give that even those not trained to solely sense power could feel em. As for sensing Naruto and the Kyubi, the Fourth Hokage is HIS FATHER and the one who sealed the Kyubi. He's totally allowed to be able to feel his son's presence, so we can have a sweet moment of "man, my son did it. Good job"
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Not to mention Naruto had some of his parents' chakra sealed inside of him along with the Kyuubi, so there's that connection too.
On the other hand, the Kyuubi has access to infinite chakra, so if anyone else (besides the Ten-Tails) may be sensed through their power, then the Kyuubi may be sensed as well.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
How did the Senju and Uchia even get along long enough to form the village together. There seems to still be way to much hate or did the Hokage only start to hate them again after Madara attacked? Or after learning the Uchia are all doomed to become insane.
One Senju brother has a burning hate while the other seems able to get along with the Uchia. How did the other members of the clans feel. Was it only the one brother and Madara that had so much hate?
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
About time. (Crosses arms and waits for the flashback to start) :smallcool:
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nekura
How did the Senju and Uchia even get along long enough to form the village together. There seems to still be way to much hate or did the Hokage only start to hate them again after Madara attacked? Or after learning the Uchia are all doomed to become insane.
One Senju brother has a burning hate while the other seems able to get along with the Uchia. How did the other members of the clans feel. Was it only the one brother and Madara that had so much hate?
I think it was an uneasy truce that grew into (what seemed to be) a more lasting peace after generations. I'm not sure, but I think what we are supposed to takeaway is that if the Second Hokage had been more trusting and had actually tried for a long term peace instead of segregation the feud would have just faded over generations. Working together towards a common goal has actually been proven by psychological studies to be the most effective way of bringing opposing groups together, so it sort of makes sense why working together to found a village might heal some of the division and why what the Second Hokage did wasn't a good idea. It also provides a neat justification for how this latest Shinobi World War could lead to a more lasting peace.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
What I want to know is, if the First was the most powerful shinobi since the Sage, why he died at a young age, while his brother survived for long enough to institute the Uchiha Police and experience the village going through yet another war (as seen in that one flashback with Hiruzen and Danzo in it).
Seriously, why? Brain tumors?
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Hmm... did he really die at a young age? He lived long enough to see Tsunade as a child (low single digits of age) and was around to be a teacher of Hiruzen's.
Incidentally, Tobirama strikes me as having a relatively short reign as 2nd Hokage.
Hiruzen's like 17 or 18 years older than Tsunade, so Hashirama was still alive when Hiruzen was in his early 20's. Living Hashirama means no Hokage-dom for Tobirama yet.
How old was Hiruzen when he got tabbed to be the 3rd Hokage during the First Shinobi World War? The gap between that and the previous point in time is the maximum possible tenure of Tobirama.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Somewhere
Hmm... did he really die at a young age? He lived long enough to see Tsunade as a child (low single digits of age) and was around to be a teacher of Hiruzen's.
Incidentally, Tobirama strikes me as having a relatively short reign as 2nd Hokage.
Hiruzen's like 17 or 18 years older than Tsunade, so Hashirama was still alive when Hiruzen was in his early 20's. Living Hashirama means no Hokage-dom for Tobirama yet.
How old was Hiruzen when he got tabbed to be the 3rd Hokage during the First Shinobi World War? The gap between that and the previous point in time is the maximum possible tenure of Tobirama.
He looked to be about 30? He wasn't exactly young, but he also had the longest reign of any hokage so far. In addition, you have to realize that much of the First's actions were leading up to peace. He wasn't around very long after creating the village.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
So my question is why is Orochimaru helping Sasuke get answers so much from the four hokages. Here are the theories I can come up with.
1) Orochimaru is legitimately thankful for Sasuke for resurrecting him, besides resurrecting him Sasuke and his team also help unseal his arms from the Death God, making Orochimaru's life easier.
2) Orochimaru does have a teacher/student bond with Sasuke. Neither one trusts one another but they do respect one another.
3) Orochimaru respect Sasuke abilities but it isn't a teacher/student bond.
4) Orochimaru just like interesting things, seeing Sasuke make the choice of whether to kill or spare Konoha in similar to Orochimaru's windmill speech to Sarutobi during the Konoha invasion. You see Orochimaru is an actor by giving Sasuke the choice, Orochimaru is at the center of the action, he set the events in motion and he gets to watch how they turn out. Orochimaru really doesn't care which path Sasuke chooses just as long as he was instrumental in the making of the choice.
I enjoy watching things in motion. It is a dull when things are at a standstill, isn't it? A stopped windmill isn't worth watching you know...Though...sometimes it is good, because of the anticipation you see...anyway...right now...I want to make that windmill spin again...with the crumbling leaf as the wind.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
I've been wondering about about Oro's motive too. Maybe he wants Sasuke to be really sure of his decision, he doesn't care if Sasuke goes through with destroying Konoha or if Sasuke ends up forgiving the villiage. It might also help for there not to be any revelatory information to pop up mid-destruction too.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Drolyt
Don't let a single guy's opinion spoil the thread for you.
Oh yeah?
Oh. Yeah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leafman
I've been wondering about about Oro's motive too. Maybe he wants Sasuke to be really sure of his decision, he doesn't care if Sasuke goes through with destroying Konoha or if Sasuke ends up forgiving the villiage. It might also help for there not to be any revelatory information to pop up mid-destruction too.
I figure Oro has decided not to take over Sasuke's body at this point, and that leaves him with a fair amount of affection for his pupil. Besides, he can always get a Sharingan off of Obito's body once they've killed him. Hell, maybe he can even score a Rinnegan. Oro knows what side his potential bread is buttered on.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Well, in the case of Madara, atleast two of them have familiarity with him, and if Madara is as strong as the First hokage, who can almost destroy an entire room by getting slightly angry, then I'll give that even those not trained to solely sense power could feel em. As for sensing Naruto and the Kyubi, the Fourth Hokage is HIS FATHER and the one who sealed the Kyubi. He's totally allowed to be able to feel his son's presence, so we can have a sweet moment of "man, my son did it. Good job"
It still reeks of "all ninjas are kind of sensors" which wasn't present earlier as far as I can recall. Meh, it's not that big a deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ramza00
So my question is why is Orochimaru helping Sasuke get answers so much from the four hokages. Here are the theories I can come up with.
Or Oro is now good for some reason and thinks the Kages can talk sense into Sasuke so he will help the alliance. Which is I guess the most likely if not the most reasonable assumption.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
LaZodiac gives reasonable idea of Oro's motivation two pages back :smalltongue:
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ramza00
So my question is why is Orochimaru helping Sasuke get answers so much from the four hokages.
Oro wanted his arms back, so he had to summon the death god anyways. He probably figures having the 4 hokages under edo tensei is good for his plan as well. He needed the Zetsu bodies that came with Sasuke, not only for the summoning but he might also be able to do something with Hashirama's cells, so Sasuke had to tag along. Letting Sasuke talk to them seems to be a sort of bonus, not really worth the effort it would take to not let Sasuke talk to them since he needed to bring Sasuke there to begin with.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kato
It still reeks of "all ninjas are kind of sensors" which wasn't present earlier as far as I can recall. Meh, it's not that big a deal.
I'm ignoring it on account of them all being hokage. All kage should have some sort of sensory abilities, and its not much of a stretch to say the greatest shinobi can sense the ten-tailed.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kato
It still reeks of "all ninjas are kind of sensors" which wasn't present earlier as far as I can recall. Meh, it's not that big a deal.
It's not so much that they're all sensors, but the amounts of chakra are so heavy/dense/large/what-have-you that they can feel it. That's been the case for the entire manga:
Chapter 28:
Chapter 103:
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
....oh wow of all things, thanks for that comparision if only beacuse it reminds me how DIFFERENT the art has gotten. I...honestly think the older art might be better.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
I also prefer the older art.
... I kinda want to reread Naruto again after seeing that.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Speaking of old things, am I the only one disappointed in Hiruzen's dialogue or lack of it, yes he had a good moment realizing his sealing of the hokages and Oro's arms was nullified but beyond that ...
Believe me I'm not in the mood for another retelling of the Uchiha massacre especially as it's always a Kohona/Itachi perspective, so I'm grateful Hiruzen kept his answer on this issue small but come on man you're Orochimaru's master and you're the only hokage who personally knows Sasuke react a bit to them.
"Sasuke you've grown...wait how many years have we been sealed?"
"Sasuke why aren't you running for your life from Oro or attacking him(like a loyal Kohona shinobi) if you're not afraid?"
"Sasuke why are you wearing Orochimaru's uniform?"
"Orochimaru how come you haven't tried to take Sasuke's eyes?"
"Orochimaru what do you mean you're on his side?"
Hashirama and Tobirama have no ideea who Oro and Sasuke are, except generics as Uchiha and Sarutobi's apprentice, and while Minato knows Oro well he has no ideea about Sasuke.
Hiruzen is both the one best able to make sense of their strange circumstances and explain to the other kages and as the most recent Hokage
the one who should be most curios about how Kohona is holding up.
He is the one who can make the introductions as it were because the others are going by their inherent biases about Sasuke (for Tobirama a enemy,for Minato just another villager ? for Hashirama a potential ally) in fact by not speaking up (Sasuke is bad because X or Sasuke is good because Y) he's quitelty subscribing to Tobirama's belief that all Uchiha are the same.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Maybe that's the entire point?
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Hiruzen died knowing Orochimaru was trying to take Sasuke to be his next body, did he not? He could infer from the situation that Sasuke has joined up with them. Besides, due to reluctantly consenting to the order given to Itachi to massacre the Uchiha clan, he already was forced to silently agree with the views of Tobirama, the Hokage he most likely had known for a longer time (not to mention more recent) than Hashirama. Not because he was Hokage for a longer amount of time, but simply because the man died later and was Hokage more recently.
The first sentence you listed he probably could've said though, but perhaps this is just one of those situations where you feel like you can't get a word in because others keep talking, and in this case those others include two people you highly respect and who were practically your teachers and the leaders of your state (rough equivalent between the Naruto world and our world).
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Maybe that's the entire point?
I'm sorry if this is in response to my post, my post was quite rambling what exactly was the point :smallwink: ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morph Bark
Hiruzen died knowing Orochimaru was trying to take Sasuke to be his next body, did he not? He could infer from the situation that Sasuke has joined up with them. Besides, due to reluctantly consenting to the order given to Itachi to massacre the Uchiha clan, he already was forced to silently agree with the views of Tobirama, the Hokage he most likely had known for a longer time (not to mention more recent) than Hashirama. Not because he was Hokage for a longer amount of time, but simply because the man died later and was Hokage more recently.
The first sentence you listed he probably could've said though, but perhaps this is just one of those situations where you feel like you can't get a word in because others keep talking, and in this case those others include two people you highly respect and who were practically your teachers and the leaders of your state (rough equivalent between the Naruto world and our world).
Yes but then that demands the question of why hasn't Oro already taken over Sasuke, it's obvious years have passed, ok Hiruzen could probably think up some scenarios why Sasuke and Oro are allies and Sasuke isn't Oro's body, the one that actually happened Sasuke fought Oro off and that Sasuke just recently joined Oro, both which would merit questions as they imply a lot.
I'm sad to say that you're probably right which means that for the most of Kohona's existence, Tobirama and Hiruzen's combined reigns, the Uchiha were not treated as fellow villagers but at best as dangerous allies who need to be contained.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sotharsyl
I'm sad to say that you're probably right which means that for the most of Kohona's existence, Tobirama and Hiruzen's combined reigns, the Uchiha were not treated as fellow villagers but at best as dangerous allies who need to be contained.
Right, which is why they planned a coup and the solution to have Itachi kill them all was devised. I think it made sense from Hiruzen's perspective, apparently the Uchiha were strong enough (either alone or maybe some of the other clans would have joined them) to think they could win a civil war, any action other than complete annihilation of the clan would just cause a civil war to start sooner with more sympathy for the Uchiha and the only person who could wipe them out was Itachi who could sneak past all their defenses and assassinate them one by one too quickly for a response. Of course just treating the Uchiha with compassion would have been a better plan, but I think Hiruzen was hesitant to overrule his predecessor. Who knows what Minato would have done.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
I wonder... how long was that time period that the Uchiha were put to a "lesser status"? The village has existed for 60 years by the start of the manga. The Uchiha were destroyed... 7 years prior? Hiruzen was shown to be the student of the First and Second when the village had already been founded. He was... how old was he again? He looked at least in his mid-twenties in that chapter that showed Tobirama going out to seemingly sacrifice himself. I'm guessing he was Hokage for at least 40 years, the last 7 of which were post-Uchiha clan.
I think it's entirely possible that Hiruzen will talk with Sasuke more later though. I don't think he's so much quietly agreeing with Tobirama right now as he is waiting for the right time to speak up. He always seemed like the kind of man who refuses to act unless entirely necessary, preferring to first collect as much information as possible before acting.
Besides, he's probably much more focused on Orochimaru's presence right now. Sasuke was just a twerp while Hiruzen was alive, and only in the last chapter, that was dominated by Hokage Intimidation PowersTM and the shock of Madara fighting Naruto and the Kyuubi (though we don't know whether they all sensed the latter or only Minato), did he really otherwise have a chance to say anything -- though with those circumstances it's logical why he didn't, being too overcome with the complexity and gravity of the situation.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sotharsyl
I'm sorry if this is in response to my post, my post was quite rambling what exactly was the point :smallwink: ?
I accidently posted what I said twice! Ooops!
And it was directed towards your very last thing, the idea of the Fourth Hokage silently approving of the second Hokage's belief that the Uciha are evil.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Just read the latest chapters.
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I find it funny that Neji has become Ninja Jesus.
ooooh, Naruhina! is it going to be canon? is it? is it!? it looks like it will now…
and HAH! "shut up Orochimaru, we Hokage are talking." I just like how some of the four most powerful shinobi Konoha ever had are just standing around squabbling over history while the final battle is happening as if things are completely normal.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
So for this week's Viz & Panda comparison, there's not much in disagreement, but more of a curiosity due to ambiguity.
Page 11
Upper right panel
Viz: It's an honor... to be praised so... ..by a god of shinobi.
Panda: It's a honor for me to be praised... ..by the god of shinobi.
Original: Shinobi no kami ni homete itadakete ... kouei desu.
The only difference here is Viz going with 'a god of shinobi' versus Panda's 'the god of shinobi'. Thus, it's the difference of whether Sarutobi's part 1 title of god of shinobi got retconned by being replaced with Hashirama, or it's the case that they can be both considered gods of shinobi.
The curiosity here is that the original wording is ambiguous. Both ways are perfectly valid, without knowing author intent.
Middle left panel
Viz: First hokage Hashirama... he's different... he could undo my binding at any time... I'll have to be careful not to let down my guard...
Panda: The first hokage, Hashirama... he is different... he broke my restraint... I must be careful
Original: Shodai hokage Hashirama... kono hito wa tagau... watashi no shibari wo hodoki itsudemo watashi wo... ki wo nukaneyouni shinakereba...
So the main difference here is of verb tense. Due to the presence of 'itsudemo' for 'any time' and the lack of any past tense I can see, I give the nod to Viz; that Hashirama is still restrained, but can break free whenever.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Once again I must applaud your work, it's REALLY interesting seeing these indepth analysis. Very awesome, and helps me get a better feel for how the plots actually unfolding.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Backtracking a bit from the manga to where the anime currently is: In the last episode, the edo Raikage told his opponents to use earth to block his lightning attacks. But isn't earth specifically the element that lightning beats? I specifically remember Kakashi punching through Kakuzu's hardened skin with Chidori, and noting that it worked because he was using a lightning attack versus an earth defense. What's up with that?
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Eeyup, lightning is supposed to beat earth. Sasuke even used lightning release to neutralize explosive clay which is supposed to be earth based.
Which is stupid. Everyone knows that ground isn't effected by electric!
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Except that ground being immune to electricity makes no sense.
Things not touching the ground are (obviously) not grounded, and so the electricity should affect them less (or not at all) than things touching the ground.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Forrestfire
Except that ground being immune to electricity makes no sense.
Things not touching the ground are (obviously) not grounded, and so the electricity should affect them less (or not at all) than things touching the ground.
Which is why ground IS weak to lightning, in Naruto land.
Which begs the question, why did he tell them to block with earth moves?
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Well... a good point why earth/ground should be resistant to electricity is the fact that earth is a pretty bad conductor as opposed to other things. (So the Pokemon rules make sense somewhat)
As for Naruto... I guess Earth is still the universal defensive jutsu? What, are you gonna block with a wall of fire or air? Seems like a poor idea and there aren't many who can make a wall of wood or other fancy stuff.
New chapter. Flashback-ception!
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Flashbacks inside Flashbacks! So, Chibi-Hasirama and Chibi-Madara where friends...
Otherwise not too much interesting except big flashy attacks...
And a non-sequitor from Madara's side when asked why he's doing this. "I'm on top"? Is that supposed to be something... sexual? Damn you.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
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I'm guessing the "I'm on top" comment was supposed to mean something like "I'm the strongest, so I don't have to justify my actions!"
I loved the flashback-in-flashback thing, as well as seeing Hashirama go Sage Mode.
This still doesn't explain the existence of the villages or shinobi though, nor their true nature. It's prolly a good lead-in though.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Kishi's ToC comment for this issue:
"Uchi de katteiru aibyou ga, saikin gurumi ni natta. Daietto shoku wa tabenai... !"
Kishi's pet cat has recently become gloomy. (this cat) won't eat..!
Although I'm not sure if it's not eating in general, or not eating diet food specifically.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Perhaps it refers just to its most recent diet, after a change in it, which caused it to become gloomy?
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
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I thought that Hashirama was the one that started the village. So how do they know eachother at such a young age? Also, he didn't go sage mode, it was a different ability.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Madara
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I thought that Hashirama was the one that started the village. So how do they know eachother at such a young age? Also, he didn't go sage mode, it was a different ability.
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Senpou translates to Sage Art doesn't it? That would imply Hashirama went into Sage Mode. *swoon*
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
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A flashback in a flashback with even more opportunity to go to other flashbacks. I think these next few chapters will prove
this.
Or atleast make it hard for me to keep up with what is all going on.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Madara
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I thought that Hashirama was the one that started the village. So how do they know eachother at such a young age? Also, he didn't go sage mode, it was a different ability.
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Was it a different ability, or just translated differently? My translation called it "Hermit Law", and since I remember one translation deemed Jiraiya's Sage mode to be Hermit mode once, I'm guessing it's all the same.
EDIT: And yes, quitting the thread over that conversation was not the best idea. But I'm still done with that particular conversation.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Madara
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I thought that Hashirama was the one that started the village. So how do they know eachother at such a young age? Also, he didn't go sage mode, it was a different ability.
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I thought they started the village together? I figure Hashirama and Madara became friends and tried to unite their clans but something caused Madara to go off the deep end.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
So I take it this recent manga pretty much shows that the third hokage had no chance on beating the first hokage as an edo tensai, if the first hokage was completely serious and went into the fight bloodlusted.
The third hokage may have been superior to Hashirama when it comes to base stats (taijutsu vs taijutsu, variety of ninjutsu vs variety of ninjutsu, etc) but the third stand no chance against the awesome power of wood release, let alone Hashirama's sage's mode.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silverraptor
A flashback in a flashback with even more opportunity to go to other flashbacks. I think these next few chapters will prove
this.
Huh? I don't think it will be that difficult... timey-wimey really only applies when you have actual time travel...
And yeah, it looked a lot like Sage mode, though no idea what kind of sage. But it is a pretty weird thing...
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ramza00
So I take it this recent manga pretty much shows that the third hokage had no chance on beating the first hokage as an edo tensai, if the first hokage was completely serious and went into the fight bloodlusted.
The third hokage may have been superior to Hashirama when it comes to base stats (taijutsu vs taijutsu, variety of ninjutsu vs variety of ninjutsu, etc) but the third stand no chance against the awesome power of wood release, let alone Hashirama's sage's mode.
No, it's simple.
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Hashirama has Haki.
/shot
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
I just re-read the latest, and boy, Hashirama is a badass. The guy collects chakra used for senjutsu in blink of an eye. And tech he uses at the end is Senpou Mokuton, meaning it's sage mode technique tied to wood release. I originally thought it was summoning, but there's no Kuchiyose. There's also mark on Hashirama's forehead, which might be somehow related to Tsunade's, as he was said by Madara to be able to perform medical ninjitsu better then her.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Which is why ground IS weak to lightning, in Naruto land.
Which begs the question, why did he tell them to block with earth moves?
The elemental wheel in Naruto makes more sense once you realize Kishi copied the elemental wheel from the japanese 5 elements philosophy .
They match up almost perfectly except for lightning which doesn't appear, in it's place there is Ku a concept which can be translated as Heaven or Void or Sky, it's my belief that Kishi in trying to go for a more scientific system substituted Lightning for Ku.
I can sort of see why he did it as Ku is the most mystical of the elements, it I believe originating from Buddhism, although a fifth element is common in the mystical elemental tables the Babylonians having Sky the Greeks and later the medieval European alchemists having Ether.
Being Void leads to people having trouble visualizing it or worse trying to pseudo science a explanation for what they want to happen.
As a aside:
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While Sasuke enveloping his arm in void and using chidori like that would probably look cool in place of the usual "Deidara should have beaten Sasuke because I played Pokemon or I have a vague understanding of the term grounding" threads you'd have X100 "Sasuke's arm should be torn to shred due to being sucked in by the void of the chidori threads"
Ku or Sky/Heaven/Eather or how you prefer it, is linked to pure energy, thus I can sort of forgive Ksihi for his substitution,experiences beyond the physical, thought, spirits and most things not material in nature that is why in matters relating to magic is considered the best element, obviously in Naruto this is not the case as it is equal with the other elements in ninjutsu.
Other possible links in Naruto is the way Hiruzen's advice refers to physical strength as Earth and mental strength as Heaven while Sasuke is "balanced" and Naruto is Earth respectively Sakura is Heaven it fits pretty well that Sasuke being the one to fight Naruto uses Heaven jutsus to emphasise their contrast.
Other links include Sasuke having the Cursed Seal of Heaven which gives him wings, chidori emitting the sound of birds, Kakashi apparently having cut lighting and Kakashi and Sasuke's status as the prodigies(especialy mentally wise) of their respective teams.
As another aside:
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The Cursed Seal of Heaven is in fact the tomoe of the shrainghan, the shrainghan being a manifestation of the Elder Son's power which was the the not Body part of the Sage's power, chackra imagination etc.
The tomoe might be the natural symbol in the manga for all imagination/thought/mystical powers as opposed to the more physical powers.
I.E Orochimaru specifically "rewarded" Sasuke with a CS which would amp his strongest skills instead of using the CS of Earth which is theoreticaly is as powerfull but it would have rounded out Sasuke's power instead of specializing it further.
And as final comment this doesn't mesh at all well with what we've seen of the Cloud, in that they're at least under A very militaristic and in general seem to use a lot of taijutsu, but since I think Kishi only started thinking about Cloud and what they were like in part II when the mythological references are at the same time rarer and more in your face (lazy) this doesn't bother me.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Hmm, the Godai makes more sense than what I was previously thinking (alternate version of the Wu Xing).
Wu Xing is Water beats Fire, Fire beats Metal, Metal beats Wood, Wood beats Earth, and Earth beats Water. Which meant that Wind would replace Metal and Lightning replaces Wood, which... is more complex than just using the Godai.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
The prescence of Yin and Yang in the Naruto chakra system make it evident that its the Wu Xing Chinese via Onmyodo model not the more philosophical Buddhist Godai.
I've long suspected there is some symbolic connection between Naruto and Abe no Seimei, who's well, the sox of a kitsune.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
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Originally Posted by
Soras Teva Gee
The prescence of Yin and Yang in the Naruto
chakra system make it evident that its the Wu Xing Chinese via Onmyodo model not the more philosophical Buddhist Godai.
I've long suspected there is some symbolic connection between Naruto and Abe no Seimei, who's well, the sox of a kitsune.
True the Godai doesn't address yin-yang explicitly, but I was under the impression that in Naurot yin-yang is pretty well separated from the elemental part of ninjutsu.
So does Lighting(? in Wu Xing) > Earth (I assume the same in Wuxing) make more sense when seen through that system?
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
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Originally Posted by
Sotharsyl
True the Godai doesn't address yin-yang explicitly, but I was under the impression that in Naurot yin-yang is pretty well separated from the elemental part of ninjutsu.
So does Lighting(? in Wu Xing) > Earth (I assume the same in Wuxing) make more sense when seen through that system?
Yin and Yang would is the underlying component that the elemental system is built upon. It all has to do with chakra though so they can't be called separated though. Naruto is running around with only the Yang chakra of Kurama for example... though the Yin should probably be addressed fairly soon. The two are supposedly responsible for all the non-elemental techniques running around and were invoked pretty explicitly for the Creation of All Things technique from the Sage.
Now compared to the Wu Xing we have differences with Wood & Metal versus Wind & Lightning in Naruto. The presence and explanation of Wood in Naruto suggests clearly to me that no direct comparison should be made. However if you check the Wu Xing article linked in previous posts you can see Air under Wood and Lightning under Metal which makes fair bit of symbolic sense to me.
The cycles however do not match up. The Wu Xing does not have a simple cycle but apparently two, the generating and overcoming cycles. Hence why its depicted as a circle with a pentagram. The Naruto cycle is merely a circular single cycle. I think they might be equatable with the "overcoming" cycle of Wu Xing to the Naruto cycle if you have Wood=Lightning and Metal=Wind.
More generally though that Naruto present its elements in a cycle harkens to the Wu Xing model, its certainly allowed to change its specifics. Also I should note that the Wu Xing despite being Chinese in origin entered Japanese culture quite early on (Onmyodo) and is much more closely tied to Shinto where much, but not all, of the Naruto mythos hearkens back to. The Godai seems to be somewhat later in usage, but is still used in other parts of the world via Buddhism and I'd speculate might go back to the classical Greek model transmitted East over time. Most importantly of all though Void is not a part a cycle but a separate and removed element from everyday experience. The only thing it really scans well to in Naruto is the Dust Release with its fundamental particle theme.
Also from where this seems to have come from, the Lightning-Earth interaction should probably not be accused of violating "common sense" in the first place. Electricity is kinda odd in reality like how the safest place you can generally be is in a metal cage. Because the current only flows on one side, which is why a car is lightning proof. Earth grounds electricity more because its generally the biggest thing around if I'm remembering it all properly. Also elemental chakra is of course *not* the same thing as rock and electricity particularly given that it was disrupting the technique in Deidara's case while presumably raising a rock wall with Earth is still a good barrier as the technique is done with.
(And even presuming the mystical model holds for mundane materials and chemistry does not exist, things I believe are generally more complex then that. You nominally have all five parts of the Wu Xing as well as Yin and Yang, if a category goes under one element its more about greatest magical sympathy. Then again not an expert at all, consult your local Feng Shui adviser)
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
The logic of the element wheel is so simple it makes me cry each time someone complains about it. Fire is fanned by the Wind, Water extinquishes Fire, Earth muddies up Water, Lightning schorches the Earth, Wind clears away thunderclouds and prevents Lightning.
Seriously. The bolded part is common sense. Standing on the ground doesn't mean you're grounded in the electrical sense. On the contrary, earthbound life lives in fear of thunder precisely because lightning is a bitch when it hits you, or anything around you. You know what happens to rocks that get hit by lightning? They crack. There's even a term for special veins of glass inside sand, caused by lightning going through it.
Nevermind that a charge of electricity disabling miniature robots makes perfect sense. :smalltongue:
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
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Originally Posted by
Frozen_Feet
The logic of the element wheel is so simple it makes me cry each time someone complains about it. Fire is fanned by the Wind, Water extinquishes Fire, Earth muddies up Water, Lightning schorches the Earth, Wind clears away thunderclouds and prevents Lightning.
Seriously. The bolded part is common sense. Standing on the ground doesn't mean you're grounded in the electrical sense. On the contrary, earthbound life lives in fear of thunder precisely because lightning is a bitch when it hits you, or anything around you. You know what happens to rocks that get hit by lightning? They crack. There's even a term for special veins of glass inside sand, caused by lightning going through it.
Nevermind that a charge of electricity disabling miniature robots makes perfect sense. :smalltongue:
Yeah, I noticed that too. I think most people get confused because they still think in pokemon terms, where a ground type is immune to electric type. The only reason they're immune is that they spread out the electricity throughout the ground. Its similar to how the grass type resists electricity by using the roots as lightning rods. In real life though, lightning can split whole trees in half!
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
So Viz has started including translation of mangaka ToC comments.
Their version of Kishi's is:
"Our beloved cat has become really spoiled lately. It refuses to eat the diet foods.."
Huh, so 'gurumi' in katakana can mean spoiled?
This chapter's been mostly the kaiju battle, so not much dialogue to screw up...
Only thing that even sort of stands out to me would would be page 11, upper panel, where Panda is less vague than the original.
Viz: "I've already reached it!"
Panda: "I'm already.. at the top!"
Original: "Ore wa mou... ...todoitanosa!"
It's basically the same, but Panda gives a sort of location/destination. Viz here is more literal here; it really is basically just "I'VE ALREADY ARRIVED/REACHED IT". And the conversation up to that point doesn't really point to any sort of natural destination to be implied.
Although really, I'm less bothered about that in particular and more with the transition from "No! I'm saying that we're friends!" one panel to "I'VE ALREADY REACHED IT" the next. And that's about Kishi's writing.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
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Originally Posted by
Somewhere
Although really, I'm less bothered about that in particular and more with the transition from "No! I'm saying that we're friends!" one panel to "I'VE ALREADY REACHED IT" the next. And that's about Kishi's writing.
AHA! So I wasn't bothered for no reason! And it's not the translators fault, it's Kishi's .... writing. Thanks for making that clear.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
New Chapter.
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Damn it, now even Madara became sympathetic to me :smallfrown:
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
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Originally Posted by
darksolitaire
New Chapter.
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Damn it, now even Madara became sympathetic to me :smallfrown:
Just now? :smalltongue:
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Yeah, lots of flashback... It's kind of annoying how Kishi felt the need to introduce the third broher only to kill him in the very same chapter but Madara and Hashirama are likeable enough brats... I wonder how long the flashback will drag out their climb to the top of the ninja world, though.
And we already have our lesson: If you keep seeking revenge for your fallen comrades, the war will never end. Sasuke, take notes.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
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Now I want to learn about Madara's three other brothers (unless Izuna wasn't his born brother, then four) and Kawarama. Darnit.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
This chapter made me squee.Spoiler
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It is a completely honest admission of how ****ed up the world of Naruto is, and there's a boatload of irony in the fact that Madara and Hashirama ended up changing so little. I also see now what third meant when he said Itachi had wisdom of a Hokage. Itachi too was a child soldier, and he has very strong parallels with young Hashirama.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frozen_Feet
This chapter made me squee.
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It is a completely honest admission of how ****ed up the world of Naruto is, and there's a boatload of irony in the fact that Madara and Hashirama ended up changing so little. I also see now what third meant when he said Itachi had wisdom of a Hokage. Itachi too was a child soldier, and he has very strong parallels with young Hashirama.
Same Here
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It doesn't just show how the world of naruto is screwed up. It is the first time that I can think of that someone calls someone out on how bull **** the world is screwed up.
And that person is a <10 year old kid. This made Hashirama for me.
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Re: Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan
Dunno, it seems to me quite a few people are aware of how screwed up the world is... or was during the great wars but what is a single person supposed to do but try to stay alive? Unless you are the god of ninja, obviously.
I don't think Kakashi or many others were happy with the way things were but it's not easy to stop people from killing each other.