By the way, my comment 'since when' was also directed at 'since when SW or BT use companies' as they're the two Chapters that never used companies :smallwink:
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Sounds like a BA/BT Crossover to me. Especially since the Knights of Blood are exactly that. And then there are the Red Templars as well. Specifically, the Iron Lords also have a remarkably similar scheme to Flesh Tearers, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are a bunch of people ask you if you're playing FTs. So, enough punches.
[sigh] Which is why I settled on them (and because they're IMHO the best-looking Chapter in C:SM) is because they're so little-known I won't find idiots telling me the sign on badge is, according to Codex, 0.02 mm too thick :smallsigh:
Which is a shame, as I really like looks of both Wolves and Templars, but having a nice chapter that can be substituted for both without someone telling me that Marines can't have both leopard (not wolf) skins and Maltese crosses on the same time as bling, or telling me I don't have Arseend Crusade marks painted right.
Plus, their color scheme fits all five major SM Codices without too much trouble.
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More importantly, how many know but even care?
My FLGS Manager: "Buy your figs here or in my parent company, and you can paint them in pink stripes all I care." :smallwink:
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Cherry-picking does not lead to a fluffy and 'friendly' army list, but it is RaW legal. Trixie, you can take as many BT Thunderwolves as you like; so long as you explain it to your opponent before you play and make sure there's no confusion, it's entirely up to you.
You know, I wonder what the hell cherrypicking even means. What's exactly stopping ******** that has problem with BT cavalry (not that I would use that, I like my armies mostly fluffy) from declaring "you can't take Scouts with Termies, hurr hurr! There, paragraph 111 of page 638 of my SM Omnibus declares Codex Chapters never use them at the same time, durr!"?
Or, hell, even declaring in similar way they idiot did to CG: "You want to have Shrike in your Imperial Fists army? GTFO, noob! Go play Raven Guard already! Hurr hurr Charrypicking durr!" :smallsigh:
And yes, I know there is rule stating you can have their clones under other names/banners. Which is why I wonder.
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And there are more of these kinds of people that you think. And I'm barely even the worst of them. This above quote is basically what most of the B&C is all about.
The same BC with huge DIY Chapter section, and with dozens of guides how to convert things to other things?
Last time I checked, they showcased at least 20 counts-as-Thunderwolves in various threads, most of them out of SW Chapter.
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This. Like I said, cherry-picking between one game and the next leads to getting punched.
Sooo... The only way to legally play two armies in which 90% of the units is identical down to WYSIWYG is to have two copies? :smallsigh:
Why it started to sound more like a club of elitist douchebags instead of hobby?
I understand why Librarians in BT Chapter is a bad idea, but while Codex: BT outright states they don't have psykers, it never states they don't have cavalry-like unit, with them being knight-like close combat force it would make even less sense if they never tried cavalry. Their units can have counter-attack. You can model Emperor's Champion (which, sadly, is better EC than the EC) as Lone Wolf. They experiment with new units as LR Crusader clearly shows. Virtually everything fits...
So, the only thing that doesn't fit is the tight mind of some douche? :smallsigh:
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You mean you don't remember me making mini-Dreadnoughts to represent 'Imperial Fist' Thunderwolves and Scouts-riding-Helion Skyboards to represent Fenrisian Wolves? :smallamused:
The only thing I would object here is that Dread doesn't exactly evoke 'speedy unit' image nor it doesn't have Toughness, but if you want to put them on table, fine.
So, what was exactly wrong with that? Douchism of some guys?
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I stopped using those things for a reason. Because it wasn't just 'somebody on the internet' telling me not to. It's because there were, real, physical people who wouldn't play me because I was a 'dirty power gamer' trying to get Space Wolves out of things (Imperial Fists) that weren't Space Wolves.
Rrrright. So, you're a dirty power gamer if you take substandard force with custom-made units fitting into the theme of your army, but you aren't one if you have badly painted Wolves using the latest broken net list... Do I get this right? And this makes sense... how exactly? :smallconfused:
If there's someone that should be doing the punching, it is you.
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GW Staff were even disallowing my army in the store. "Dude, if you want Space Wolves, play Space Wolves. Don't be one of those s*heads who mixes Codecies because it makes you look like a f* dirty player."
"Dude, if you want Shrike, play Raven Guard."
If that was some random idiot, ok, everyone can have an opinion, but if that was a shop staff saying things to paying customer (which, IIRC, has multiple armies, and is highly regarded in local club, as you said) - then he is an idiot. I'd never buy a single thing in this store on his watch, maybe I'd do even more. :smallannoyed:
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Yeah. Two swears in one sentence, from a staff member. In the store. That's how not happy about the situation they were.
Right, but as soon as you bought new models, they were happy to shut up. And it is supposed to be normal behavior of shop owner? :smallsigh:
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I then asked what would happen if I bought actual Space Wolf models and just painted them yellow...They weren't impressed. They eventually let me play Imperial Fist 'Space Wolves', but, only if my models were amazing. And then they also said that Imperial Fists don't ride Thunderwolves, so I couldn't have those.
First, I agree with above statements - you should do your force the way you want.
Second, please define 'amazing'. Is is 'custom-made, exquisitely painted mini'... which, in my opinion, well-done mini-Dread would definitely be, or... 'something done the way some idiot clerk wants you to'?
Because the latter is not.
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So, that's why all my 'Space Wolves' are kit-bashed Assault/Tactical Marines, using the running legs, using the Pistol arms from the Assault sprue, cutting off the Pistols for Bolters, putting the Chainsword arms onto the other arm, and including pistol-holsters on all my models.
They didn't order you to make them using actual SW sprues? Blasphemy! :smallsigh:
By the way, actual SW sprue doesn't have enough pistol holders. I wonder, from where you get them? Did they sold them to you, too? Dude, to me, that's extortion, not 'awesome' as you try to say it.
You know, my FLGS manager did cursed guys buying outside of his shop... but he put it in this way:
"You know, all these idiots buying damn boxes in England doesn't realize that if they keep doing so, they might save a few damn bucks, but the country's net of shops and whole WH40K scene might collapse... and I wonder, where they will play then? Who will organize tournaments? Did these idiots thought about that?"
And with this, I might well sympathize, with an idiot telling people to change things he doesn't like because he has a bit of power I won't.
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So, yes, my Grey Hunter models do have Bolters, Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons.
Which even Codex tells you don't have to do.
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And, I've got the 'chained' weapons and the old armours from Black Templar sprues as well, and a bunch of extra Shoulderpads, so that they really do look like Veterans, and I'm not just a munchkin trying to rort the system.
You know, wanting your minis to look good is one thing, caving to demands of an idiot who apparently never saw illustrations in Codices he is dealing with daily is completely another :smallannoyed:
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And third is just awesome. :smallbiggrin:
Is it some joke I don't get? :smallconfused:
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Specifics aside, you could still build an army based on this. Couple of Tac. Squads, 3 lots of 3 Land Speeders - 7th Company. Use Codex Dark Angels if you like, and have a Tac Squad-heavy Ravenwing army, for a different twist. :smallsmile:
Precisely. Which is why I also objected wo CG's statement you can't have a squad of veteran bikers in C:SM.
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The thing is, it just seems that you're spending a lot of time telling Trixie that there's a lot of things that they CAN'T do because of reasons A, B and C. Yet, truthfully, it can be done if you like - it just won't be as good as X, Y and Z.
Be positive, sir! :smallbiggrin:
And reasons A and C seem to be 'because I told you so!' of some douche in a shop in the other end of the world I will probably never see.
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We're the nice 40k Forum! We should be encouraging people to try stuff just because it's fun or crazy.
Yup :smallwink:
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These are the people I play with. If my views/tactics with certain units are a bit extreme for people on this board to handle, I can only say that, the above is the kind of thing I have to deal with.
So, the whole issue is, they don't like you owning them, so they try to pay you back the only way they can? Whining?
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Extreme measures yield extreme results. Out of the whole experience, I ended up with a pretty hardcore-looking army because people forced me into making it.
The only issue I have this army is just as legal as your old one, and probably as well looking, unless old one was really lazy.
I don't know if I would play something others forced me to do, regardless of how well it looked.
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It's basically an enforcement of the WYSIWYG rule when applied to 'Counts As' models. If I want Imperial Fist 'Space Wolves', I have to make them look the part. And I did. And now people will accept my 1st Company, because it's awesome.
Again, define 'awesome'. To me, it looks 'something any local fanboy can no longer whine about as I never make something half that good'.
I wonder, did these people whine at 'Eavy Metal conversions, too, as it is sometimes obvious they modeled it after unit from another Codex it ended up in?
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Like I said, I'm 'not allowed' to use Thunderwolves. But, I'm me. I like to use alternatives to 600-point super-units. Because I hate having all my eggs in one basket. Space Wolves don't need Thunderwolves. And Trixie doesn't have to make Black Templar 'Space Wolves', because Black Templars kick arse already.
So, the lesson is, don't play Black Templars if you happen to like them but have C:SW? :smallconfused:
And Shrike can be taken only in fully painted Raven Guard army? :smallconfused:
Both whining points of view so far seem to be of the same legality.
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Unlike Codex Marines vs. Space Wolves. Sort of.
Care to enlighten me? :smallconfused:
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Which is what made GW (in my area) so angry when all the Black Templar players were jumping ship to the Blood Angels Codex.
1. Black Templars don't have to. They're already good.
2. Don't be s*.
Jumping ship (and to a flavor-of-the-month-army) is a bit different than picking two old Codices and building an army so you could use both of them, don't you think?
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It turns out Death Company can't hold objectives and cost blood from your nose.
Right, and Sword Brethren and BT Assault squads, which happen to cost even more, have less special rules, and can't take either, don't suck, because...? :smallconfused:
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Originally Posted by
lord_khaine
Yeah, but you should have a hardcore-looking army because you want to, or because you like to paint, or maybe even because you think painted models works better than nonpainted, you should not have it because you were forced to have it.
Exactly.
Which is why I would have one well painted army I can try in various ways, than two unpainted piles of messy plastic.
But I guess some people would whine less then.
I can consider getting second after I have the first one completed.
You know, I wanted to ask here if I can mix SW/BT bling, using wolf skulls as trophies taken from xenos, furs painted after big cats (no SW heads, though) and Maltese crosses BT have on the same unit, but the answer seems to be no alredy from the amount of whining that would get.