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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
evisiron
Chaos list:
Spoiler
Show
1 Daemon Prince
Wings
MoS
Lash of Submission
2 Obliterators
2 Obliterators
7 Plague Marines
1 Plague Champion with Power Fist
2 Melta Gun
Rhino
Extra armour
7 Plague Marines
1 Plague Champion with Power Fist
2 Melta Gun
Rhino
Extra armour
A main concept behind this list is being fairly tough to kill. To knock out troops, opponents have to deal with T5 3+ armour FNP plague marines, or 30 strong units of orks. For kill point missions the likes of the buggy will hide or be thrown into reserves.
Apparently the bulk of entrants are Space Marines, with some different codex space marines, and 1 eldar and 1 IG player.
Any comments and criticisms welcome. :smallsmile:
Considering what you say you're going to go up against: Space Marines, IG, and Eldar, I'd say you've got a pretty tough list to beat. I'd honestly switch out the Extra Armour for Havoc Launchers, but that's a personal thing (though the extra firepower and tactical flexibility wouldn't hurt).
I want to say that you're undermanned, but what you do have is going to take quite a bit of firepower before going down, so it kinda balances out. Once you start taking losses, though, I think you're going to find your army folding pretty quickly.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ImmortalLiam
So... I just got back to internet access... And im looking up units. I like the Blood Angels, Daemonhunters, Raven Guards, and Space Wolves. But if I had to choose today, Id pick the Blood Angels. Anyhow advice? Im a newbie so I dont wish to get in over my head.
It's almost like you haven't even read the second post in this thread. There's even a Blood Angels specific Link and everything.
Beware though; Blood Angels are currently the flavour of the month. They're everywhere at the moment.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
It's almost like you haven't even read the second post in this thread. There's even a Blood Angels specific Link and everything.
Beware though; Blood Angels are currently the flavour of the month. They're everywhere at the moment.
How"d ya know? Actually Lycan told me to go read the info from the first page but..... I forgot over the past few days :smalleek:. But thanks for dissecting the space wolves for me! Im thinking of getting them and shaving all the models with freaky hair... And yes I realize how feminine that sounds... I want my guys to look beast, not like punk skateboarders...:smallfurious:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Yes, go read the second post like I told you to. :smalltongue:
He's already done a guide to Blood Angels, too. So you can read over both armies and compare them.
The biggest problem for you, though, is that you don't know half the stuff we're talking about. You don't know what most of the units even are, how the special rules work, what most of the terminology means... Its not your fault, of course. So if you don't understand what something means or what a unit is or does, just write up a list of questions, and we'll explain them as best as we can.
So yeah, don't be afraid to ask questions. :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
ImmortalLiam
But thanks for dissecting the space wolves for me!
Well, I didn't do it for you. You just motivated me to do it.
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I want my guys to look beast, not like punk skateboarders
...But I like punk skateboarders. The other option is to just not use those heads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
The biggest problem for you, though, is that you don't know half the stuff we're talking about. You don't know what most of the units even are, how the special rules work, what most of the terminology means... Its not your fault, of course.
The Guide Strikes Again!
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Originally posted by
The Guide
- If and when you do finally decide on an army, play a few games in an actual GW Store using the Store's models. Otherwise, where possible, use proxy models. This will give you a basic understanding of most of the rules and the turn sequence and a general idea of how your army-of-choice plays. Or, at least give you an idea that an army or unit that you thought was cool, really isn't. Or maybe that particular army just isn't for you. And that unit that 'looks cool' doesn't fit your play style.
- Read a Codex. Whatever gets said on the internet, means absolutely nothing if you don't have a Codex to understand what's being said. This ties into the above in that it's kind of important that you have played a few games and know the rules.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
...But I like punk skateboarders. The other option is to just not use those heads.
Brings to mind the old Hair Metal Noise Marines with platform heels, guitar Noise Blasters, and mohawks :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
I have an idea for him, which gives him a decent starting force, lets him get into the game slowly, and stays within his budget... :smallconfused:
First he could get a Tactical Squad, and learn how to actual build and paint Space Marines, just to make sure its something he'll enjoy and keep his interest. To get his money's worth, he could build two Sergeants and just make two squads of "Sarge + 4 Marines." He can then buff up these squads with the little 3-packs, if he so desires.
HQ choice... Hm. I'm not a SM player, so I honestly don't know what to say there. I'd personally go with a SM Commander, simply because its cheap and comes with a butt-ton of bits he can put to good use later on. That, or a Command Squad, since the units it comes with seem handy/important and there are plenty of useful spare bits.
So that gives him a skeleton army of 2 Troop choices and an HQ. Next comes...?
I'd say either the SM Battleforce, or Assault on Black Reach. Battleforce gives him lots of troops and a vehicle, but is probably outside his budget. AoBR gives him more Marines (conversion work training with the flamer and ML guys?), 5 Termies, a Dreadnaught which can easily be modified (courtesy of me) to have an Autocannon, and my new Inquisitor model a Captain he'll probably never use a spare conversion practice model an extra HQ choice. :smalltongue: Plus the pocket rulebook and templates. And he'd only be paying for half of it, if I have anything to say about it. :smallwink:
Total spending: 80-ish dollars, not counting paints and tools.
And of course, he can paint everything as Blood Angels, and either use a borrowed SM Codex, or switch to BA ASAP/whenever he feels comfortable and wants to expand his army. :smallcool:
So yeah, that's what I'd suggest for him. But I figured I'd run it by you guys first, before giving him any possibly bad advice or suggestions... :smallconfused:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
I have an idea for him, which gives him a decent starting force, lets him get into the game slowly, and stays within his budget... :smallconfused:
First he could get a Tactical Squad, and learn how to actual build and paint Space Marines, just to make sure its something he'll enjoy and keep his interest. To get his money's worth, he could build two Sergeants and just make two squads of "Sarge + 4 Marines." He can then buff up these squads with the little 3-packs, if he so desires.
HQ choice... Hm. I'm not a SM player, so I honestly don't know what to say there. I'd personally go with a SM Commander, simply because its cheap and comes with a butt-ton of bits he can put to good use later on. That, or a Command Squad, since the units it comes with seem handy/important and there are plenty of useful spare bits.
So that gives him a skeleton army of 2 Troop choices and an HQ. Next comes...?
I'd say either the SM Battleforce, or Assault on Black Reach. Battleforce gives him lots of troops and a vehicle, but is probably outside his budget. AoBR gives him more Marines (conversion work training with the flamer and ML guys?), 5 Termies, a Dreadnaught which can easily be modified (courtesy of me) to have an Autocannon, and my new Inquisitor model a Captain he'll probably never use a spare conversion practice model an extra HQ choice. :smalltongue: Plus the pocket rulebook and templates. And he'd only be paying for half of it, if I have anything to say about it. :smallwink:
Total spending: 80-ish dollars, not counting paints and tools.
And of course, he can paint everything as Blood Angels, and either use a borrowed SM Codex, or switch to BA ASAP/whenever he feels comfortable and wants to expand his army. :smallcool:
So yeah, that's what I'd suggest for him. But I figured I'd run it by you guys first, before giving him any possibly bad advice or suggestions... :smallconfused:
Actually, not a bad idea at all. Just one Tac Squad box is enough to play a Kill Team and get a handle on the basic rules (shooting, to wound rolls, that sort of thing) and from there either AOBR or the Battleforce is a pretty good expansion. Personally I'm leaning towards AOBR, HQ and other Troop right there, and you could split the cost since I'm assuming you'd take the Orks from the set or find someone who would buy them off of you (I personally have found no shortage of people willing to do so). The Battleforce would make for a more effective army, sure, but unless you're planning on entering in tourneys right off the bat, army effectiveness really isn't a major concern for a starting player.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
So... Ok, After reading and comparing blood angels and space wolves Im fairly certain I want space wolves. And Im thinking this is like dnd, when picking your first thing, go with your gut. I wanted space wolves, so im going for them. I have a few questions though....
"2 HQ choices for every one FO Slot!" I dont understand this statement :smallfrown:
"Thunderwolf Cavalry
The best unit in the List. 12" Assault Move. S/T 5 and two Wounds each and all 5 of their Attacks are Rending. Strap on a Storm Shield and watch them win. Who cares if they're 80 Points per model. They will win.
Trouble is, there is no easy way to make them. Best and easiest way is to buy multiple Canis Wolfborn models and go crazy with a saw. This is crazily expensive. But, it seriously is the best unit in the Army." SO how do you make them?...
And Lycan, Im coming to see you tomorrow. Im going to break your brain with questions (dont worry, Pan says she wont let me go crazy and eat your sanity like cthulhu)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
HQ's would be things like Warbosses, Lord Commissars, and other Leader units I've shown you. For Space Wolves, you can have 4, where as other armies can only have 2. So instead of 1 Wolf Priest and 1 Commander, you can have 2 Wolf Priests and 2 Commanders.
Thunderwolf Cavalry are both torture and fun. You have to make them yourself. Perhaps you can just get some motorcycle guys and say "Mounted Infantry!" and use them as Counts As models. Of, if you had cash to burn, you could buy a bunch of those models where the guy is riding a massive wolf. Or you could get some other model monsters, and mount some marines on them. IIRC, someone here has tried to combined their marines with model dinosaurs from regular Warhammer Fantasy. :smalleek:
Bring it. :smallamused:
Why do you prefer Space Wolves over Blood Angels? :smallconfused:
And in regards to my previously suggested plan, do you guys think the Commander and AoBR would still be useable for Space Wolves? Or will he have to get Space Wolf specific models since none of their models look "normal" like the AoBR kit's... :smallsigh:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
Why do you prefer Space Wolves over Blood Angels? :smallconfused:
It sounds like their all around better, I wanted them first, two of my reasons for "shopping" around were their hair and color (both can easily be solved) and I like their tactics. Line up guys and tell the pricks to bring it. Then just wait. My favorite strategy. :smallamused:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Oh you jerk. I know you did not just give me and my Orks a challenge... :smallamused:
What colors would you intend to paint them, then, and how would you resolve the hair issue? :smallconfused:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
Oh you jerk. I know you did not just give me and my Orks a challenge... :smallamused:
What colors would you intend to paint them, then, and how would you resolve the hair issue? :smallconfused:
Lol, I honestly forgot... Thats what you do isnt it? Well how well did that work when we played that watered down mock version with Ethan? Who did good for a wittle newbie? :smalltongue:. And... Either use different heads, figure out how to make em bald or trim it... And Id just use a different blue or white. I just dont like gray-blue.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Remember, Lycan. As long as your model meets WYSIWYG, your army doesn't have to even remotely resemble what a Space Wolf army would look like. You're quite allowed to play Space Wolves using basic Space Marine models with no conversion work. The only difference is the rules you use.
On Thunderwolf Cavalry, I had an interesting experience with them today. It turns out that Ragnar Blackmane can't take a Thunderwolf mount, and my opponent's Thunderwolves shouldn't have been making 8 S6 I6 Rending attacks each in assault. Now I know. It does not soothe my pride.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DCGFTW
Remember, Lycan. As long as your model meets WYSIWYG, your army doesn't have to even remotely resemble what a Space Wolf army would look like. You're quite allowed to play Space Wolves using basic Space Marine models with no conversion work. The only difference is the rules you use.
On Thunderwolf Cavalry, I had an interesting experience with them today. It turns out that Ragnar Blackmane can't take a Thunderwolf mount, and my opponent's Thunderwolves shouldn't have been making 8 S6 I6 Rending attacks each in assault. Now I know. It does not soothe my pride.
On fear of looking stupid.... WYSIWYG?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Hm. Ah. Yes. I remember that, now. You did do pretty good during that crash course game...
I'm sure there are plenty of non-crazy-looking heads and helmets in the kits, and if not, we can either get some spare regular helmets from our Space Marine buddy or I can file down the hair and stuff for you... And I'm sure the Codex will have some alternate paint schemes you can use... Or you can just paint 'em red for kicks and giggles. :smallbiggrin:
@ DCGFTW: Oh, okay. I was just making sure. I personally wouldn't care if he had "normal" SM figures mixed in with his Space Wolves, as long as they were the same color scheme and one or two of them had some Wolfy bits slapped on there... :smalltongue:
And too bad about the cheating opponent. Friendly game, or tournament? :smallconfused:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
Hm. Ah. Yes. I remember that, now. You did do pretty good during that crash course game...
I'm sure there are plenty of non-crazy-looking heads and helmets in the kits, and if not, we can either get some spare regular helmets from our Space Marine buddy or I can file down the hair and stuff for you... And I'm sure the Codex will have some alternate paint schemes you can use... Or you can just paint 'em red for kicks and giggles. :smallbiggrin:
Pan would get a kick out of that :smalltongue:. But red wolves... seems wrong... We can discuss this tomorrow though :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
WYSIWYG - What You See Is What You Get. Its the unofficial rule that says "If you want a model to have something, it has to be visible." Lets say you have a model that has X weapon. If you want to spend the points to upgrade it to Y weapon, you switch it out with a different model that has that weapon.
Lets say I have a squad of Boyz. My Orks all have pistols and knives. So, according to WYSIWYG, all my Orks count as being armed with Sluggas and Choppas. If I want them to have Shootas, I need to use a squad where the models have machine guns instead.
There's also Counts As and Proxy. Counts As is where you have a model that at least looks kinda like what you want it to represent. An Ork with a machine gun can be counted as an Ork with a pistol and sword, as long as I tell you before-hand that I want it to Counts As that specific unit. Proxy would be me just saying this bottlecap represents an Ork, or this cardboard figure of a marine represents a Sergeant...
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Wicked awesome! Ok, that makes sense. Im starting to enjoy this alot more than I though I would :smallamused:
So... WYSIWYG is used the most?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
I guess you could say that, yes. Its kinda the "standard" way the game is played. Some people are more slack about it, of course. If you don't have a plasma pistol, its okay to say "Sarge 2 has a plasma pistol" even though he has a bolt pistol, as long as its on paper and your opponent understands it.
Some things can't be WYSIWYG'ed of course, like units there are no models for. In that case you either have to use Counts As, Proxy, or be really awesome at modelling and conversion... :smalltongue:
Any other questions?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Dang you and your awesome cheap models. Speaking of. Pan found the SW: Battleforce for 76. But the site seems.... Sketch... Ill need you to check it out tomorrow. OR should I link it? o.0
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Just show me tommorrow, but I personally wouldn't do it. There are more reliable places to find cheap models... And like I said before, I'd personally get a smaller kit first before you get the battleforce, just to make sure you can actually handle and enjoy building the models and whatnot. You don't want to get the battleforce and realize you bit off more than you can chew less than half way through it... :smalltongue:
My Tau buddy didn't even get through priming half the bits on his Fire Warrior's sprue before he realized he didn't really like Warhammer 40K. :smalleek:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
Just show me tommorrow, but I personally wouldn't do it. There are more reliable places to find cheap models... And like I said before, I'd personally get a smaller kit first before you get the battleforce, just to make sure you can actually handle and enjoy building the models and whatnot. You don't want to get the battleforce and realize you bit off more than you can chew less than half way through it... :smalltongue:
My Tau buddy didn't even get through priming half the bits on his Fire Warrior's sprue before he realized he didn't really like Warhammer 40K. :smalleek:
Yea... Point and case... Well, if you and I have enough brain cells left... Can we do another small scale battle, this time using the full rules? I think thatll be my way of seeing if I like it... If I start playing and my head goes nuts :smallsmile:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
ImmortalLiam
"2 HQ choices for every one FO Slot!" I dont understand this statement :smallfrown:
HQ models are your Commander-type models. Usually the best dudes in the list. Wolf Lords, Rune Priests, Wolf Priests and Battle Leaders. Normally there is this thing called a Force Organisation chart, that says how many units or squads that you can have per allocation.
The normal limit for HQ is 1-2.
Space Wolves have a rule that gives them 2 HQs per slot. It would make sense if you read a rulebook and knew what the FO Chart was and how everything slotted into it.
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So how do you make [Thunderwolf Cavalry]?
A lot of hard work. You can proxy or Count As (glorified Proxy) your way out of it if you're good enough. Again, that's still hard work.
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Originally Posted by
ImmortalLiam
It sounds like they're all around better, I wanted them first, two of my reasons for "shopping" around were their hair and color (both can easily be solved) and I like their tactics. Line up guys and tell the pricks to bring it. Then just wait. My favorite strategy. :smallamused:
At the risk of bursting your bubble, Blood Angels are actually the current 'power list' as they can do everything Space Marines can do (except Thunderfires), plus a few more tricks for being Blood Angels.
Only problem is, to do that, you need a lot of cash. As it involves taking lots of Land Raiders (one of the most expensive tanks) or lots and lots and lots and lots of Razorbacks which are still vehicles and therefore kind of expensive.
Blood Angels also CHARGE! A lot.
Still, if you're like me, and prefer defensive actions and/or reactive deployment/going second, then Space Wolves are for you. Since Space Wolves are still Space Marines and can still shoot and Assault like everyone else. Except they have Counter-Attack. Which is awesome.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ImmortalLiam
Dang you and your awesome cheap models. Speaking of. Pan found the SW: Battleforce for 76. But the site seems.... Sketch... Ill need you to check it out tomorrow. OR should I link it? o.0
www.thewarstore.com sells all GW stuff for 20% off. Thus cheaper than your sketchy site.
eBay will generally go below what thewarstore charges, so there is also that. Of course because you are dealing with real people and not a business, there is an extreamly slim chance that the deal could fall through. But if it does, then you can get your money back without too much trouble. And its also pretty easy to avoid such experiences by buying from those with a high rating (which is determined by the number of successful transactions).
My original 1000pts Chaos Space Marine list was bought via eBay for only a few bucks over $100. Basically, if you'r patient, you will be rewarded. :smalltongue:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
What HQ would you suggest for him to take after the Tactical Squad? :smallconfused:
Could Bikes be counted as Thunderwolf Cavalry? They'd be wolf-themed, and I'd say bikes are thundery, too... :smalltongue:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
What HQ would you suggest for him to take after the Tactical Squad? :smallconfused:
A Wolf Lord for fightyness. WS6, 4 Attacks. Access to all sorts of weapons - including Thuderwolves.
Rune Priests have specialised roles, depending on what powers you take. You'd have to look for yourself what you need. For me, my Rune Priest sits up top blasting away with Living Lightning. Because he also stands right next to my Long Fangs, I also give him "Everyone within 6" gets a Cover Save", and I forget what that one is.
Wolf Priests are like Chaplains. And so are always a welcome addition to any team.
Battle Leaders are pretty much cut-price Wolf Lords if you're looking to be on the cheap in points.
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Could Bikes be counted as Thunderwolf Cavalry? They'd be wolf-themed, and I'd say bikes are thundery, too... :smalltongue:
They could. But, just last weekend I saw Space Marines-riding-Cold Ones (from the WHFB range) for a Salamanders army get turned away as they weren't big enough (for True LoS rules, and the fact that Thunderwolves are supposed to be like Clydesdales for Marines).
...It looks like (for my metagame, at least) that Salamander Marines ride Carnosaurs.
Like I said; Buy the Canis Wolfborn model over and over again and know how to use a saw. I've also heard tell of a company on the internet that makes very viscious looking giant-pig/wolves and actually have Marine-looking legs (complete with rounded nodule at the top) moulded onto them. If someone can find it, I'd be very excited...Because I've been looking for days.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Alrighty, then. So would my earlier suggestions work? Y'know, for him to get a SW Tac Squad and make it into 2 Squads, then buff it up with 3-packs? And to get a SM Commander, which he could combine with SW bits to make a Wolf Lord?
Would you suggest him splitting AoBR with me for the Termies and D-Naught, as well as the spare marines and pocket rulebook? Or do you think he'd be better off with something else? :smallconfused:
I just don't want to give him bad advice, or make myself look like an idiot... :smallsigh:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
Alrighty, then. So would my earlier suggestions work? Y'know, for him to get a SW Tac Squad and make it into 2 Squads, then buff it up with 3-packs? And to get a SM Commander, which he could combine with SW bits to make a Wolf Lord?
Sounds fine. Not ideal. But definitely is on the cheap and allows him to play Kill Team a bunch of times to get the hang of the rules before moving onto bigger and better things.
...A Lone Wolf, given the style that Kill Team works in, and how cheap they are, actually do really well in Kill Team.
...Found it. Maxmini sells Giant Wolves with rider-legs at 15 Euros each. They look a bit small to me.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
I've also heard tell of a company on the internet that makes very viscious looking giant-pig/wolves and actually have Marine-looking legs (complete with rounded nodule at the top) moulded onto them. If someone can find it, I'd be very excited...Because I've been looking for days.
Like these maybe?