-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
You can't sadly, not yet. But hey the game isn't finished yet, so it still might happen.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Leeham
You can't sadly, not yet. But hey the game isn't finished yet, so it still might happen.
Exactly. Just write in the survey that that's a thing we want the option to do.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
I for one am fairly confident we'll get it. Just a matter of patience.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Currently, the #1 thing I want to see more of is modules. The (formerly?) primary selling point of D&D Next would be how customizable it would be. I understand that they're still in the process of getting a core that they feel comfortable with, but it's been several months now, and we still don't know how they're going to work, let alone how backwards compatibility is going to function across multiple, highly distinct systems. There haven't been many new ideas expressed in D&D Next, and even the good ideas like Advantage have a host of problems that need fixing. I'd really like to see them display the supposed strengths of D&D Next (flexibility, customization, backwards compatibility), rather than have them show me "Generic Fantasy D20 RPG", because right now, D&D Next hasn't showcased any reason for me to change systems.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Currently, the #1 thing I want to see more of is modules. The (formerly?) primary selling point of D&D Next would be how customizable it would be. I understand that they're still in the process of getting a core that they feel comfortable with, but it's been several months now, and we still don't know how they're going to work, let alone how backwards compatibility is going to function across multiple, highly distinct systems. There haven't been many new ideas expressed in D&D Next, and even the good ideas like Advantage have a host of problems that need fixing. I'd really like to see them display the supposed strengths of D&D Next (flexibility, customization, backwards compatibility), rather than have them show me "Generic Fantasy D20 RPG", because right now, D&D Next hasn't showcased any reason for me to change systems.
You probably aren't going to see anything like that for at least a year. They've already stated that they expect to be about 2 years before this is ready and given how vital it is that the core is right to ensure the modules can work, most of that time is going to have to be spent on the core system. I blame this general frustration (which I've seen expressed elsewhere) on Google and other companies which have turned the phrase "beta test" into "Try our buggy first release of this software, and then don't get mad at us for problems because we told you its a beta". Real testing is a long and slow slog of a process, where you often find yourself while in the middle thinking that you aren't making any progress, until one day you find yourself close to the end and you look at all you created and built behind you and you ask "When did I make a finished product?" Given that they expect this to take 2 years, and that they've let us in on this process so early, I really have to believe that what we are seeing is honestly what they have (more or less, obviously we're not privy to all the internal discussions and documents). Modularity is the goal, but they don't have it yet because it isn't ready. This isn't just a marketing stunt, this is real testing.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
1337 b4k4
You probably aren't going to see anything like that for at least a year. They've already stated that they expect to be about 2 years before this is ready and given how vital it is that the core is right to ensure the modules can work, most of that time is going to have to be spent on the core system. I blame this general frustration (which I've seen expressed elsewhere) on Google and other companies which have turned the phrase "beta test" into "Try our buggy first release of this software, and then don't get mad at us for problems because we told you its a beta". Real testing is a long and slow slog of a process, where you often find yourself while in the middle thinking that you aren't making any progress, until one day you find yourself close to the end and you look at all you created and built behind you and you ask "When did I make a finished product?" Given that they expect this to take 2 years, and that they've let us in on this process so early, I really have to believe that what we are seeing is honestly what they have (more or less, obviously we're not privy to all the internal discussions and documents). Modularity is the goal, but they don't have it yet because it isn't ready. This isn't just a marketing stunt, this is real testing.
True enough. And there are still things within the current build that I've yet to give feedback on. I'd just really like to see something that makes the system distinct or compelling, that differentiates it from other RPGs.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheOOB
To keep this analogy going. Some classes are like pliers or a crescent wrench. Universally useful and adaptable to many tasks. Some classes are a 5/8th inch E-torx screw driver. They are not as adaptable, but when that's the tool you want, it's the best tool for the job. Your metaphorical RPG toolbox has room for many tools, as long as the ones you want are in there, it's okay if some you don't like as much are there.
Some classes could be like a variable width crescent wrench, but are instead a fixed width crescent wrench on account of how the mechanism for width variation was designed poorly and jams all the time. The part of these classes that causes the mechanism jam is indefensible, even if you can still work with them, strictly speaking. They certainly shouldn't be defended with "if you can't work with these, it is your problem", and it is that use of logic that I am criticizing. I don't feel that the sorcerer necessarily is one of these tools, Zeful appears to, and appears to feel that bloodlines are what's jamming the mechanism for width variation. I'd consider bloodlines something that has jammed mechanisms in the past, and that could turn the sorcerer into one of these tools, but they might be able to prevent that.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Craft (Cheese)
So I just happened to notice
this lovely piece of work.
In the case of the sorcerer, this is far better than what Seerow said was happening, and it's cool enough to have a place in the game on its own merits, but I think it's still a whole new idea that should be treated as a whole new character class rather than as the official DDN Sorcerer.
As for the warlock fluff, I don't see anything about the concept as Mearls describes it that couldn't be handled by playing a wizard, which is kind of unfortunate given that it's pretty much the opposite of what he was trying to do.
Quote:
...Hoo boy, the guys who complained about the retcons, hasty revisions, and other instances of just plain bending over backwards necessary to make Eladrin and Dragonborn work in 4E settings are going to have a field day with this new... conception of sorcerers. I'm surprised it didn't come up in the bloodline discussion.
Well, the bloodline discussion was based on bloodlines themselves, because somebody said that was what was happening. I'm happy to see that the designers actually have more sense than that.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Menteith
Currently, the #1 thing I want to see more of is modules. The (formerly?) primary selling point of D&D Next would be how customizable it would be. I understand that they're still in the process of getting a core that they feel comfortable with, but it's been several months now, and we still don't know how they're going to work, let alone how backwards compatibility is going to function across multiple, highly distinct systems. There haven't been many new ideas expressed in D&D Next, and even the good ideas like Advantage have a host of problems that need fixing. I'd really like to see them display the supposed strengths of D&D Next (flexibility, customization, backwards compatibility), rather than have them show me "Generic Fantasy D20 RPG", because right now, D&D Next hasn't showcased any reason for me to change systems.
And I don't even like advantage, I'm happier with the flat circumstance bonuses of 3.X.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Knaight
Some classes could be like a variable width crescent wrench, but are instead a fixed width crescent wrench on account of how the mechanism for width variation was designed poorly and jams all the time. The part of these classes that causes the mechanism jam is indefensible, even if you can still work with them, strictly speaking. They certainly shouldn't be defended with "if you can't work with these, it is your problem", and it is that use of logic that I am criticizing. I don't feel that the sorcerer necessarily is one of these tools, Zeful appears to, and appears to feel that bloodlines are what's jamming the mechanism for width variation. I'd consider bloodlines something that has jammed mechanisms in the past, and that could turn the sorcerer into one of these tools, but they might be able to prevent that.
No reason some classes can't be fixed-width wrenches. They just shouldn't be core in that case. (Druid, Paladin, Sorcerer, &c.)
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zeful
Now, move the the next damn line in my post. What if all fighters were in 5e mechanically forced to be mercenaries? As in, the class abilities made being a mercenary the only possible option.
You keep saying that while not describing it. I think it's very clear in your head what you mean, but not so clear to others. Let me try to help.
Option A) (I think this is what you're getting at)
Imagine that all Fighters had a "training" option that informed their abilities and flavor. Now imagine that the only "training" option currently available was mercenary.
Now, sure, eventually we may have more Training options, but currently we're mechanically forcing every Fighter to be a Mercenary. Even with other options, it restricts certain fluff from being attached to the Fighter - such as *not* being trained, but being self-taught. You've mechanically stated that all Fighters are Trained in some way.
Option B) (the other way I could interpret this)
Imagine that the Fighter class had certain "Mercenary" features hard-wired into it - say, that they gained xp for gp granted for paid contracts. You've now mechanically hard-wired the class into acting in a mercenary-like way.
------------------
Are either of these close?
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
noparlpf
No reason some classes can't be fixed-width wrenches. They just shouldn't be core in that case. (Druid, Paladin, Sorcerer, &c.)
I'm fine with fixed width wrenches, provided they are non-core. I just don't think that making a variable width wrench then welding all moving parts in place is a good way to produce them.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AgentPaper
How is that not what the sorcerer has been about historically? In 3.5, the sorcerer was just a re-hash of the wizard with slightly different casting. It wasn't until 4E that the sorcerer got their own distinct identity, and that identity is basically exactly what the 5E sorcerer is doing, just taken a step further.
As for specifically becoming more of a melee character when the spells are out, that's what the dragonblooded sorcerer does, not all sorcerers. We don't know what the other types do yet.
Emphasis mine. This is one of the things I'm most excited about in regards to the new sorcerer. I mean, there can be any number of bloodlines, and some of them have the potential to be really cool.
The draconic one they gave us so far is gish-y. But maybe there will be other types that let you focus in on one type of element / type of magic (like an elemental or demonic / angelic bloodline)?
Or maybe there will be a bloodline where you just are born with magic in your blood, and it may be mostly passed down from parent to child, ala Harry Potter, but it could just pop up in a family of Muggles, ala Hermione? I'm not sure what the mechanics behind it would be, but perhaps you need something to help you focus your magic with this bloodline, such as a specific wand or somesuchthing (like Harry), and in return for this limitation, you can cast as much magic and know as many spells as a wizard (or nearly as much), only spontaneously? That could be interesting... and how many people out there want to play a Harry Potter knockoff, especially new(er) players? I'm guessing a lot.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Knaight
I'm fine with fixed width wrenches, provided they are non-core. I just don't think that making a variable width wrench then welding all moving parts in place is a good way to produce them.
True. Hopefully what looks like a welded variable-width wrench is just a prototype design that was made to show the silhouette of the complete product? Remember, this is only the second round of playtests and the classes are nothing like finished being written.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JoeMac307
Emphasis mine. This is one of the things I'm most excited about in regards to the new sorcerer. I mean, there can be any number of bloodlines, and some of them have the potential to be really cool.
The draconic one they gave us so far is gish-y. But maybe there will be other types that let you focus in on one type of element / type of magic (like an elemental or demonic / angelic bloodline)?
Or maybe there will be a bloodline where you just are born with magic in your blood, and it may be mostly passed down from parent to child, ala Harry Potter, but it could just pop up in a family of Muggles, ala Hermione? I'm not sure what the mechanics behind it would be, but perhaps you need something to help you focus your magic with this bloodline, such as a specific wand or somesuchthing (like Harry), and in return for this limitation, you can cast as much magic and know as many spells as a wizard (or nearly as much), only spontaneously? That could be interesting... and how many people out there want to play a Harry Potter knockoff, especially new(er) players? I'm guessing a lot.
Great. So now can we please move on and come back to this argument when more bloodlines come out and we can see all the available options? (Frustration not directed at you, Joe, just at the complaints that we're restricting a class that's not even written yet.)
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JoeMac307
Emphasis mine. This is one of the things I'm most excited about in regards to the new sorcerer. I mean, there can be any number of bloodlines, and some of them have the potential to be really cool.
The draconic one they gave us so far is gish-y. But maybe there will be other types that let you focus in on one type of element / type of magic (like an elemental or demonic / angelic bloodline)?
Or maybe there will be a bloodline where you just are born with magic in your blood, and it may be mostly passed down from parent to child, ala Harry Potter, but it could just pop up in a family of Muggles, ala Hermione? I'm not sure what the mechanics behind it would be, but perhaps you need something to help you focus your magic with this bloodline, such as a specific wand or somesuchthing (like Harry), and in return for this limitation, you can cast as much magic and know as many spells as a wizard (or nearly as much), only spontaneously? That could be interesting... and how many people out there want to play a Harry Potter knockoff, especially new(er) players? I'm guessing a lot.
I really am hoping they keep up the hybrid thing and have a rogue-mage the way the dragon heritage is a fighter-mage. . . I mean, I just say that selfishly because I've made a sorcerer/rogue multi or hybrid in every edition they've had sorcerers in simply because it always seems like there's just enough synergy there to pull it off and have it be a lot of fun.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
I, for one, would be surprised if we don't don't be like an arcane or wild magic bloodline that has more generic abilities, if you just want to play your sorc like a lightly different wizard.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
So, you know how in the current set up we have
Wizards: Vancian
Sorcerers: Spell points
Warlock: AEDU (sort of anyway)
To get magic to have the forms the player wants. Anyone else think we might be getting something like:
Fighter: Combat Superiority
Monk: Chi-points
Warblade: ToB maneuvers
with melee so the same diversity appears? Or, do you think all the emphasis will be on the various types of magics?
I personally think the latter but I'd be very interested in seeing the former.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Sorcerer doesn't look like it CAN be that different with other bloodlines. It's a medium caster/scrapper, like a cleric.
It doesn't suit the class name, but it's not a bad idea in principle to have a gish style class.
I don't want any dragon classes myself, they are all lame beyond words
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mhensley
fun with d&d character generation - I give you Belkar Bitterleaf
1st level Halfling Fighter CE
Str- 12
Dex- 17
Con- 14
Int- 10
Wis- 8
Cha- 13
AC- 15 (studded leather)
HP- 12
2 x dagger 1d6 (+6 to hit, +3 to damage)
Halfling-
Speed- 25 ft.
Lucky
Halfling Weapon Training
Halfling Nimbleness
Lightfoot- naturally stealthy
Thug-
intimidate- 4
stealth- 6
streetwise- 4
Duelist - tumbling
Dual Wielder- two weapon fighting
looks about right...go get um!
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GenghisDon
Sorcerer doesn't look like it CAN be that different with other bloodlines. It's a medium caster/scrapper, like a cleric.
How can you tell?! We've seen one bloodline that's combat focused! And it's that bloodline that makes it all fighty! Without the dragon bloodline, there is nothing that makes the Sorcerer combat oriented.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Anyone wonder if school specialization will be a thing in Next playtest next?
Seeing as Wizards have few spells/day at 1st, the old specialize in school thing from 2nd edition (later 3rd) is useful.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Starbuck_II
Anyone wonder if school specialization will be a thing in Next playtest next?
Seeing as Wizards have few spells/day at 1st, the old specialize in school thing from 2nd edition (later 3rd) is useful.
According to Mike Mearls, it's a distinct possibility.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GenghisDon
Sorcerer doesn't look like it CAN be that different with other bloodlines. It's a medium caster/scrapper, like a cleric.
It doesn't suit the class name, but it's not a bad idea in principle to have a gish style class.
New sorcerous origin:
Magical Magic-Person Heritage
Hit Dice: 1d4 per sorcerer level
Hit Points: 4 + your Constitution modifier at 1st level, and 1d4 (or 3) + your Constitution modifier per sorcerer level gained
Armour and Shield Proficiencies: None
Weapon Proficiencies: Daggers, slings, quarterstaffs and light crossbows
Sorcerous Powers: At 1st level, you can spend 1 willpower to use the expanded knowledge power.
Additionally, each day, after you have spent 3 willpower, the save DC of any spell you cast increases by 1.
Level 4: You can spend 2 willpower to use the maximise spell power
Additionally, each day, after you have spent 10 willpower, you gain resistance to any hostile magic. I don't know how 5e handles spell resistance, but you get it.
Expanded Knowledge
Your sorcerous magic always manifests itself in whatever way you need it to.
Effect: You add any one sorcerer or wizard spell of a level you can cast to your spells known list for the next minute.
Maximise Spell
You blast things really hard.
Requirement: You can use this power only as a reaction as you cast a spell.
Effect: All variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this power are maximized.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lanaya
New sorcerous origin:
Magical Magic-Person Heritage
Hit Dice: 1d4 per sorcerer level
Hit Points: 4 + your Constitution modifier at 1st level, and 1d4 (or 3) + your Constitution modifier per sorcerer level gained
Armour and Shield Proficiencies: None
Weapon Proficiencies: Daggers, slings, quarterstaffs and light crossbows
Sorcerous Powers: At 1st level, you can spend 1 willpower to use the expanded knowledge power.
Additionally, each day, after you have spent 3 willpower, the save DC of any spell you cast increases by 1.
Level 4: You can spend 2 willpower to use the maximise spell power
Additionally, each day, after you have spent 10 willpower, you gain resistance to any hostile magic. I don't know how 5e handles spell resistance, but you get it.
Expanded Knowledge
Your sorcerous magic always manifests itself in whatever way you need it to.
Effect: You add any one sorcerer or wizard spell of a level you can cast to your spells known list for the next minute.
Maximise Spell
You blast things really hard.
Requirement: You can use this power only as a reaction as you cast a spell.
Effect: All variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this power are maximized.
I'd forsee it something like this.
Arcane Heritage
Hit Dice: 1d4 per sorcerer level
Hit Points: 4 + your Constitution modifier at 1st level, and 1d4 (or 3) + your Constitution modifier per sorcerer level gained
Armour and Shield Proficiencies: None
Weapon Proficiencies: All simple weapons
Gain the magical attack and spell save DC and max spell level progression of wizard.
Gain a new spell known every odd level
Every even level gain 1/2 you new level in bonus Willpower.
Expanded Knowledge is way too powerful. 1 Willpower gets less and less relevant as you level up, and versatility is the wizards schitck.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lanaya
I don't know how 5e handles spell resistance, but you get it.
Judging form the Drow's entry in the Bestiary, it is represented by a disadvantage on the attackers side. That is: any spell, that requires an attack roll, is affected by a targets spell resistance.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheOOB
Expanded Knowledge is way too powerful. 1 Willpower gets less and less relevant as you level up, and versatility is the wizards schitck.
Oh, certainly. I wasn't really going for balance or anything, I just wanted to show an example of a sorcerous origin that was in no way, shape or form similar to dragon heritage and wasn't at all a gish.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
I'll take a crack at it, why not.
Arcane Heritage
Hit dice: 1d4
Sorcerous Powers: At 1st level, you can spend 1 willpower to use the Shunt power. Additionally, each day, after you have spent 3 willpower, a glowing eye appears on your forehead. Until you complete a long rest, you gain a +2 bonus to the damage rolls of cantrips.
At 4th level, you can spend 2 willpower to use the Unbound Mind power. Additionally, each day, after you have spent 10 willpower, a thin haze of arcane energy forms over your hands and arms, causing them to glow. Until you complete a long rest, you gain advantage on any rolls made to resist a spell's effects.
Shunt
Gathering raw arcane power from your body, you hurl a wave of force at your foes.
Effect: Make a magical attack against a creature within 50 feet of you. On a hit, the target takes 2d6 damage and is pushed 15 feet in a direction of your choosing.
Unbound Mind
Your intelligence score increases by 1 for the next 10 minutes. This bonus stacks up to half of your sorcerer level. Using this power is a free action.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Leeham
According to Mike Mearls, it's a distinct possibility.
According to Mearls at some of the Gen Con panels they are working on Wizard specialists in the form called traditions, and they gave the example of a Illusionist being a Tradition. Whether or not that stays by the third packet who knows
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DrBurr
According to Mearls at some of the Gen Con panels they are working on Wizard specialists in the form called traditions, and they gave the example of a Illusionist being a Tradition. Whether or not that stays by the third packet who knows
In the D&D/PA podcast he mentioned they are working on wizard traditions. He also mentioned wild magic as a possibility.
He also strongly implied to outright said you'd be able to pick your own feats, fighter techniques, and rogue techniques if you don't want a specialty, fighting style, or scheme.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheOOB
In the D&D/PA podcast he mentioned they are working on wizard traditions. He also mentioned wild magic as a possibility.
He also strongly implied to outright said you'd be able to pick your own feats, fighter techniques, and rogue techniques if you don't want a specialty, fighting style, or scheme.
I hope wizard traditions are more substantial than just school specialization.
So anyway, the new classes they've been pumping out for the playtest inspired me to make my own interpretation of the Druid.
[/shameless]
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
I skimmed through the class writeups in the new playtest, and I noticed that the cleric's and the sorcerer's attacks and saving throw DCs do not scale with level. The text implies that they should scale with level, but the tables show that they don't.
Or perhaps they don't scale until 6th level? It seems strange that sorcerers have much lower saving throw DCs than wizards when their magic is supposed to be a barely controllable force that overwhelms them with use. I guess uncontrollable means that it's less effective? I expected it to be the other way.
-
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
The Mod Wonder: As I have had to speak to several posters about their behavior in this thread, I would suggest that everyone carefully consider their posts before making them.