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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Honestly this is the only D&D forum I know of. If people really wanted to liven up the forum they could always discuss their ongoing games and trade tips and methods. As for 5e, I haven't tried it yet, plan to eventually once more material comes out. Though the things I like about 4e is its flexibility (Easy to balance anything), skill challenges (Can be used for anything), and the length of the battles (Power to the +2). So I'm not sure how much of that is still in 5e.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
There's only one problem I have with talking about my campaign... stage fright. Often I mess up, then want to keep it under my hat :)
But I like the idea of some kind of tips thread. :smallcool:
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Just realized that if the forum is dead, then so are we and we can all be in the Thriller music video!!!
o/~ "'Cause this is thriller! thiller night!-" o/~
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
There are over 3000 threads with nearly 50,000 posts, and the 4e subforum isn't even that old. What definitions of "never embraced 4e" and "dead" are we working with here? Games that aren't D&D routinely have their primary forums as much smaller than that.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
I'm not a super poster or anything but this 4e forum is the one I check most often.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Knaight
There are over 3000 threads with nearly 50,000 posts, and the 4e subforum isn't even that old. What definitions of "never embraced 4e" and "dead" are we working with here? Games that aren't D&D routinely have their primary forums as much smaller than that.
It's relative to the other subfora here rather than to other games' fora. Giantitp in general is a forum that people might check several times a day, and for the 3.x forum in particular they can expect to find new posts every time they do, but the 4e forum routinely has several days go by with no posts at all.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nod_Hero
I'm not a super poster or anything but this 4e forum is the one I check most often.
Same here. The 4th edition forum is actually the default place my GitP link goes to.
I've actually kinda liked how relatively quiet the 4e forums here are. It's easier for me to follow everything.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VeliciaL
Same here. The 4th edition forum is actually the default place my GitP link goes to.
I've actually kinda liked how relatively quiet the 4e forums here are. It's easier for me to follow everything.
Mm. It is handy to be able to check the little dot on the main forum to check for posts. :smallbiggrin:
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VeliciaL
Same here. The 4th edition forum is actually the default place my GitP link goes to.
I've actually kinda liked how relatively quiet the 4e forums here are. It's easier for me to follow everything.
My thoughts exactly.
When I asked help in the 3.5 forum, I was lost in how many threads they have... and it was annoying to look my thread every time and see if something new came up. I'm a quiet reader, but I really enjoy this forum and this community.
Also, I look on this forum even before I look if there is a new OOTS episode :smallsmile:
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NecroRebel
Perhaps due to the fact that OotS is a 3.5 comic, these have always been primarily 3.x boards. A lot of very vocal people in the 3.5 community felt betrayed when 4e came out, and their hostile behavior likely prevented a lot of would-be 4e newcomers from sticking around, thus preventing a large group of 4e players from forming. As such, we've always been a fairly small corner of the giantitp community.
This is probably the main thing; whereas some communities have no ties to any particular game, GitP has a very strong tie to a particular edition of a particular game. So other games and editions naturally get less traffic here, and will get less and less as time goes on. And yeah, some of the vitriol directed against 4e is a huge turn-off. I've seen (and reported) posts that'd get a 4e-hater at least temporarily banned on more diverse forums, but here it's almost business as usual. Sad, really.
The may be additional reasons for the 4e forum to be quiet. 4e has a few wrinkles here and there, but it's a solidly-written game that essentially plays as advertised. Whereas other games and editions often seem to be nothing but wrinkles; and as we all know, while problems breed debate, satisfaction breeds silence. I myself registered on GitP to vent about a 3.5 group that was suffering from one of the various problems that 3.x seems to naturally nurture. But then I joined a 4e group, and now I just come to GitP when I'm very bored, because I'm thoroughly happy at the game table. :)
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trunamer
There may be additional reasons for the 4e forum to be quiet. 4e has a few wrinkles here and there, but it's a solidly-written game that essentially plays as advertised. Whereas other games and editions often seem to be nothing but wrinkles; and as we all know, while problems breed debate, satisfaction breeds silence.
That's my impression, too. There are certainly some areas where wording is open to interpretation or confusion, but for the most part, 4e is tightly written with few outstanding questions. Compare against 3.X, for which GitP has (so far) six threads about rules dysfunctions alone, never mind the stuff where there's just no way to know how a thing is supposed to work.
Personally, I post less than I might otherwise because responses tend to be above my optimization level (as well as focused on combat rather than skill use or mechanical characterization). I enjoy looking at edge cases and trying to make bad choices work decently, and I don't feel much support for that here. My style isn't discriminated against ... it just doesn't connect to most other posters.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NecroRebel
Perhaps due to the fact that OotS is a 3.5 comic, these have always been primarily 3.x boards. A lot of very vocal people in the 3.5 community felt betrayed when 4e came out, and their hostile behavior likely prevented a lot of would-be 4e newcomers from sticking around, thus preventing a large group of 4e players from forming. As such, we've always been a fairly small corner of the giantitp community.
It has been slow lately, but not unprecedentedly so.
I don't know if my case is common or not, but as a new player I immediately launched myself into two games, one 3.5 and one 4e. Both are still going, and I don't dislike my 4e game...but I don't like it as much. I'm playing the major Beowulf, Master of Grabs build and it's kind of fun.
I came in mostly fresh(just some info gleamed from watching counter monkey) and I really feel the lack of options. when I play 4e I miss having skills, I ponder why the hell clerics don't get a resurrection til 22(not like anyone has fallen, we haven't even spent a healing surge or a potion. and only 2/5 of us even have experience elsewhere). and I may have other questions eventually.
when I play 3.5, my group's social dynamic is problematic and our DM has his funky issues, but I feel my need for options and danger much more challenged and because of that satisfied. my favorite character was a beguiler and I spent the majority of his short life being silly as well as useful.
either way, I enjoyed myself but I don't know if I want to join 4e games on roll20 or not.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperDunkBarkly
I don't know if my case is common or not, but as a new player I immediately launched myself into two games, one 3.5 and one 4e. Both are still going, and I don't dislike my 4e game...but I don't like it as much. I'm playing the major Beowulf, Master of Grabs build and it's kind of fun.
I came in mostly fresh(just some info gleamed from watching counter monkey) and I really feel the lack of options. when I play 4e I miss having skills, I ponder why the hell clerics don't get a resurrection til 22(not like anyone has fallen, we haven't even spent a healing surge or a potion. and only 2/5 of us even have experience elsewhere). and I may have other questions eventually.
when I play 3.5, my group's social dynamic is problematic and our DM has his funky issues, but I feel my need for options and danger much more challenged and because of that satisfied. my favorite character was a beguiler and I spent the majority of his short life being silly as well as useful.
either way, I enjoyed myself but I don't know if I want to join 4e games on roll20 or not.
One of the biggest issues with any version of D&D is absorbing rules. Many of the "rules" aren't in any rulebooks.
Clerics get Raise Dead at level 8, either by ritual (PH1 version) or as a special utility power (Essentials version). Where did you get that level 22 stuff from?
If you're not losing healing surges, your DM hasn't read the XP budget rules. Monsters MM3 and onward do lots of damage, and PCs frequently find themselves at very low health.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kimera757
Clerics get Raise Dead at level 8, either by ritual (PH1 version) or as a special utility power (Essentials version). Where did you get that level 22 stuff from?
I think he's referring to 3E's revivify, which is available at level 5; its equivalent in 4E is indeed level 22. The catch is that these spells can be cast during combat, whereas raise dead takes too long for that.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperDunkBarkly
...we haven't even spent a healing surge or a potion. and only 2/5 of us even have experience elsewhere). and I may have other questions eventually.
Not a whole lot to add for the rest of the post, but this is definitely a DM issue. In the three or so games I've played in healing surge spending and death saves were a pretty common occurrance. :P
4e DOES have skills, too. Maybe your DM just isn't giving you a chance to use any of them?
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
There was a game I played in, that we actually played to finish, a less than common occurrence, that only issue was a particular scene came up when fighting Slaad. The Dm had pc's dropping instantly to the chaos phage. It almost Tpk'd the party save for my Eladrin Taclord, who was the one that made the knowledge check on the Slaad, and glad I picked up Ritual Master as a feat for a level I was undecided on & I was able to bring back the other ritual caster after surviving the encounter. Granted this was back when our group had access to only Dmg1 Phb1 & Mm1 & our system mastery was not as good as it is now.
Sadly I don't post much but do enjoy reading the threads & have had fun experiences with 4th edition.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
well, I feel like terrible incarnate. let's go ahead and address my wrongness. the 4e game meets monthly(it's run by a roommate who until recently spent most of the month on the road as a trucker. we met during his off weeks) and the 3.5 game meets weekly(been going since july I think?). throws off me memories.
4e game has us at level 3 atm, and the 3.5 game is at level 6, after having 2 party wipes on the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kimera757
One of the biggest issues with any version of D&D is absorbing rules. Many of the "rules" aren't in any rulebooks.
Clerics get Raise Dead at level 8, either by ritual (PH1 version) or as a special utility power (Essentials version). Where did you get that level 22 stuff from?
If you're not losing healing surges, your DM hasn't read the XP budget rules. Monsters MM3 and onward do lots of damage, and PCs frequently find themselves at very low health.
I think I found it through googlemancy. glad I was wrong and that's one hell of a relief.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VeliciaL
Not a whole lot to add for the rest of the post, but this is definitely a DM issue. In the three or so games I've played in healing surge spending and death saves were a pretty common occurrance. :P
4e DOES have skills, too. Maybe your DM just isn't giving you a chance to use any of them?
those paltry things I can't even rank up to improve my character every level?
you're right, though. I use my intimidation often, dungeoneering occasionally, but it's nothing compared to be massive list of things I can do on my 3.5 characters.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperDunkBarkly
those paltry things I can't even rank up to improve my character every level?
you're right, though. I use my intimidation often, dungeoneering occasionally, but it's nothing compared to be massive list of things I can do on my 3.5 characters.
You mean those things that improve as you level, have various magical items that give bonuses for, and interesting Skill Powers they give access to?
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NecroRebel
It's relative to the other subfora here rather than to other games' fora. Giantitp in general is a forum that people might check several times a day, and for the 3.x forum in particular they can expect to find new posts every time they do, but the 4e forum routinely has several days go by with no posts at all.
That's just introducing a perception bias then - GitP is extremely high traffic, the 3.x forum is incredibly busy even by GitP subforum standards, 5e is still coming out and is probably at a high point for traffic, and then the other subforum is every other edition of D&D and then every non D&D game. Consider how rarely a dedicated Fate thread comes up. It's obviously a favorite on the other games section, the Fate community here is doing just fine, but it looks dead compared to 4e.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperDunkBarkly
those paltry things I can't even rank up to improve my character every level?
you're right, though. I use my intimidation often, dungeoneering occasionally, but it's nothing compared to be massive list of things I can do on my 3.5 characters.
That's surprising, honestly. Most 4e characters have a far wider range because of skill consolidation.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Waddacku
That's surprising, honestly. Most 4e characters have a far wider range because of skill consolidation.
No kidding. I have no issue with a system which has 4-6 skill points per level for most characters, and I have no problem with a skill system that has jumping, climbing, and swimming as three separate skills. Both of those in the same system? That's a bit of a problem.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
My current band of PCs -- a sorcerer, invoker, cleric and blackguard last session -- a cheerful band of murderers (evil campaign) stole 250,000 gp through blackmail in only two days... while on vacation! They'd taken over a rich man's home, killing him and using magic to look like him.
Alas, they had no idea who this guy was. Some of his fellow businessmen urgently needed him to take care of a deal that only he knew the details of, a bit of a problem. The other merchants were equal-leveled minions with high Wisdom and Charisma and special encounter bonuses to skill checks (very similar to the bard's Silver Tongue power). Nonetheless, some spectacular Bluff checks later, plus Nature and Streetwise, and the PCs had figured out the scheme. (Nature? The merchants were selling cranberries.)
Also, another consortium of merchants (Blueberry House) was blackmailing both the merchant they had replaced (along with the rest of the Cranberry Consortium) and the auctioneer. The PCs didn't care about the blackmail, but once they saw how much money was involved constructed an intricate double cross, using intimidation, bluffing, blackmail, stealth, spying (counterblackmail), info-gathering rituals and so forth to take over both consortia and make a big profit. This was an impromptu sidequest. I have a hard time picturing anyone saying "my PC doesn't have skills" after seeing things like that.
They had another twenty-eight days to work on the plot :)
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Skill ranks in 3.5 are irrelevant since the optimal way to solve any possible scenario is to ask the wizard to take care of it.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Knaight
That's just introducing a perception bias then
Well, yes; the whole conversation is about the 4e community seeming dead, which is a perception issue in the first place. We're using definitions of "dead" and "never really caught on" in a place where "alive" and "popular" are defined by the 3.x board :smalltongue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bloodshed343
Skill ranks in 3.5 are irrelevant since the optimal way to solve any possible scenario is to ask the wizard to take care of it.
I hear that if you optimize the crap out of some skills you can do anything with them, especially Diplomacy or, even better, Jump and Escape Artist (which moonlight as Diplomacy, somehow). 3.5's skill system is more than a little silly.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bloodshed343
Skill ranks in 3.5 are irrelevant since the optimal way to solve any possible scenario is to ask the wizard to take care of it.
Yes, I'm sure the community will be a lot less dead if we have another round of "arguments why 3E sucks" :smallamused:
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kurald Galain
Yes, I'm sure the community will be a lot less dead if we have another round of "arguments why 3E sucks" :smallamused:
I know it's tongue-in-cheek, but please no. I've always enjoyed how the 4E sub-forum doesn't feel the need to base 3.P whenever it pops up. Unlike the reverse.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
I know I haven't been active around here for a long time because my group was playing an awesome Star Trek game (using OOP Last Unicorn books). The campaign ended gloriously and now we're going to give 5e and, possibly, Mutants and Masterminds a shot.
Our 4e DM was also the guy who ran the year-long Star Trek game and he's currently taking a well-deserved break from DMing. Still, while looking at the 5e books he's started getting wistful about the 4e Spelljammer games he ran a while back. It's only a matter of time before we'll be soaring the stars in a galleon again, 4e-style. :smallwink:
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
I'm a tad irritated, because it looks like we're switching to 5e, which I really don't like. One of the DMs is talking about houseruling almost everything to an attack roll.
Pity, I was really looking forward to playing this guy. Spoiler
Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Foostus, level 24
Minotaur, Cleric/Ranger, Tactical Warpriest, Indomitable Champion
Hybrid Cleric Option: Battle Cleric's Lore
Hybrid Ranger Option: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Epic Heroism Option: Strength
Epic Heroism Option: Wisdom
Forest Warden (Forest Warden Benefit)
Theme: Werebear
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 27, CON 13, DEX 20, INT 12, WIS 22, CHA 10
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 11, DEX 15, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 8
AC: 42 Fort: 41 Ref: 40 Will: 39
HP: 160 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 40
TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +29, Dungeoneering +25, Endurance +20, Nature +28, Perception +34
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +19, Arcana +15, Bluff +14, Diplomacy +14, Heal +20, History +15, Insight +20, Intimidate +14, Religion +15, Stealth +19, Streetwise +14, Thievery +19
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Werebear Utility: Bear Shape
Minotaur Racial Power: Goring Charge
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Hunter's Quarry Power: Hunter's Quarry
Cleric Attack 1: Invigorating Assault
Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike
Cleric Attack 1: Mighty Hew
Ranger Utility 2: Hunter's Privilege
Ranger Attack 3: Disruptive Strike
Cleric Attack 5: Weapon of the Gods
Cleric Utility 6: Mark of Victory
Endurance Utility 10: Enter the Crucible
Tactical Warpriest Attack 11: Battle Cry
Tactical Warpriest Utility 12: Battle Favor
Ranger Attack 15: Blade Cascade
Ranger Utility 16: Ranger's Parry
Cleric Attack 19: Holy Wrath
Tactical Warpriest Attack 20: Battle Pyres
Ranger Utility 22: Master of the Hunt
Ranger Attack 23: Nonchalant Collapse
FEATS
Level 1: Master of the Fist
Level 2: Ki Focus Expertise
Level 4: Fluid Motion
Level 6: Superior Reflexes
Level 8: Implement Focus (Ki focuses)
Level 10: Superior Will
Level 11: Waking Senses
Level 12: Preternatural Senses
Level 14: Lethal Hunter
Level 16: Predatory Action
Level 18: Armor Specialization (Scale)
Level 20: Natural Cunning
Level 21: Unarmed Mastery
Level 22: Mythic Senses
Level 24: Superior Fortitude
ITEMS
Monk unarmed strike x1
Iron Body Ki Focus +5 x1
Greater Nagascale Armor of Eyes +5 x1
Amulet of Material Darkness +5 x1
Boots of Quickness (paragon tier) x1
Ioun Stone of Might x1
Bracers of Speed x1
Avandra's Boon of Storms
Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3)
Ioun's Revelation (level 3)
The Fading One - Ghostfoot
Insight of the Vault
Crimson Determination (paragon tier)
Mental Block (paragon tier)
Mercurial Mind (paragon tier)
Last Breath of the Gods (paragon tier)
Spiked gauntlet x1
Claw Gloves x1
====== End ======
He's not even really optimized, but something about a werebear minotaur cleric||ranger/monk who's going to always go first at epic levels just entertains me.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
I partially switched to 5e due to being caught up in home brewing a Swordmage class.
Ah well, I still prefer 4e.
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Re: The 4e community seems a bit dead.
One of the 4e old guard that's been dabbling in 5e; played it during the closed alpha and enjoyed the edition overall, so I kept on with it post-release. Altogether though, while better than 3.5 it's still got glaring balance issues (some of which are game breaking), and its combat, though fast and streamlined, is no substitute for 4e's tactical gameplay, so I will definitely be coming back. That's not to say I will abandon 5e, but my preference would be to play more 4e if possible.