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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Sermil
So, the other creature in the Mr. Scruffy story is a
Carbuncle, right? But they aren't listed as having the ability to teleport people -- or even cute cats. So what's up with all the teleporting?
Thank you, you've preemptively answered the question I was going to ask.
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Originally Posted by
Emanick
What I’d like to know is what the hint about Hinjo playing a prominent part in the plot going forward means. What’s his role going to be? I can’t imagine what he could do for the Order at this point, besides maybe acting as a point person remotely for coordination purposes, and maybe the odd spell and bit of lore.
I'm curious about this as well. I wonder if he will be showing up at Kraagor's Gate pretty soon, or maybe they'll all end up on the other side of the rift, or what.
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Originally Posted by
MoonCat
While we're on the subject of the Scruffy story, could someone explain why Mr. Scruffy sadly leaves at the end? I understand he was annoyed at being abandoned at the bottom of the hill, and then met the Carbuncle's family, but the last page has me lost.
Unrelatedly, I loved the ettin. I'd completely forgotten about it when I read HtPGHS as a pdf, and it was a pleasure all over again.
Wait, How the Paladin Got His Scar was already released in PDF? I was a Kickstarter backer but I don't think I ever received it. Ah well, doesn't matter now I suppose.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Stabbey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kish
If you hadn't posted that, I would never have thought that was ever ambiguous. Belkar went after Mr. Scruffy
here and pulled him out
here.
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Originally Posted by
ti'esar
Oh, wow. Thanks, y'all, I completely forgot about Belkar's line in 516, and him playing with Scruff in 379. Mmkay, I sit corrected!
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Originally Posted by
MoonCat
While we're on the subject of the Scruffy story, could someone explain why Mr. Scruffy sadly leaves at the end? I understand he was annoyed at being abandoned at the bottom of the hill, and then met the Carbuncle's family, but the last page has me lost.
I think what happens is that Scruffy feels he and the Carbuncle can't do things together any more because the Carbuncle will be looking after its (his? her?) family instead. Fifth wheel... or fifth paw, if you'd prefer. And then the Carbuncle teleports Scruff to somewhere near a friend.
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Originally Posted by
Eve
With the way count Durkula was just defeated I had to love this exchange
Saha Kapoor:The other option is to try and take all the empathy you've learned since you were 12 and cram it into Gin-Jun's head before dawn
O-Chul:Thirty years worth in seven hours?
Nice catch.
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Originally Posted by
Velaryon
Wait, How the Paladin Got His Scar was already released in PDF? I was a Kickstarter backer but I don't think I ever received it. Ah well, doesn't matter now I suppose.
You had to go and download it, and maybe you missed the announcement in the blizzard of other announcements (Rich is up to, what, 80-something for the Kickstarter?). This version is, of course, slightly superior, so yeah, doesn't matter now.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
godsflunky
You had to go and download it, and maybe you missed the announcement in the blizzard of other announcements (Rich is up to, what, 80-something for the Kickstarter?). This version is, of course, slightly superior, so yeah, doesn't matter now.
I've done that with all the previous stretch goal stories, so I'm not sure how I missed this one. Are we still waiting on any more such stories? It's been so long I can't remember.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Velaryon
I've done that with all the previous stretch goal stories, so I'm not sure how I missed this one. Are we still waiting on any more such stories? It's been so long I can't remember.
Yep! CCPD, Dim Sun, and Sir Francois, plus what the mystery box prize is.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rogar Demonblud
Dang, I thought I'd got em all. Thanks!
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Ornithologist
The picture of Shojo and mr scruffy, is like the best.
I know! I just love that drawing of Shojo holding his new kitten with shining stars in his eyes!
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Zea mays
I know! I just love that drawing of Shojo holding his new kitten with shining stars in his eyes!
For me, it's the last panel of Lien's story, but Shojo's a close second.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Man. I really wasn't expecting this from a collection of side stories, but I think this might actually be my favorite book in the OOTS series. The characters, the setting, the history, it's all so thoroughly worked out, and it comes together in very satisfying ways - especially for side characters like Sangwaan, who seem so much more complete now. Well done, Giant.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Angel Bob
Man. I really wasn't expecting this from a collection of side stories, but I think this might actually be my favorite book in the OOTS series. The characters, the setting, the history, it's all so thoroughly worked out, and it comes together in very satisfying ways - especially for side characters like Sangwaan, who seem so much more complete now. Well done, Giant.
Same. I'm lobbying for a Big Blue Book 2: Electric Boogaloo.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
I think Scruffy didn't want to leave Azure City and knew their paths were now separate. Carby had found their family and would presumably be staying with them, and it just wouldn't be the same. I'm glad they got to say goodbye before Scruffy joined the Order, though. It was a great story. I enjoyed all three stories but as a cat lover and a big fan of Mr. Scruffy I have a soft spot for this one for sure.
I wonder what Redcloak wanted with the carbuncle though.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Lissou
I think Scruffy didn't want to leave Azure City and knew their paths were now separate. Carby had found their family and would presumably be staying with them, and it just wouldn't be the same. I'm glad they got to say goodbye before Scruffy joined the Order, though. It was a great story. I enjoyed all three stories but as a cat lover and a big fan of Mr. Scruffy I have a soft spot for this one for sure.
I wonder what Redcloak wanted with the carbuncle though.
I think it's more Scruffy wanted a new family, and Carby already had one. Shojo and Belkar had nothing tying them down, Carby had kids.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Got my book today. Agree with everyone who called out the Shojo & Scruffy panel as a heart-melter. But on that same page, the two Miko panels, Mr Scruffy remembering Miko as a horrible scary monster...I hadn't ever thought about Mr Scruffy being traumatized before :( My melted heart re-formed just so it could snap in two.
This also makes any moment since then, where Belkar has been seriously hurt in front of Mr Scruffy, retroactively more upsetting. And I am also now extra upset about Belkar's death prophecy. Poor little kitty.
Finally, Scruffy's story strongly reminded me of Avatar: The Last Airbender, both Momo's Tale from the episode "Tales of Ba Sing Se", and the episode "Appa's Lost Days." In fact, the echoes are so strong that I doubt it's a coincidence (I know Rich has named ATLA as an influence before.) Stories about suffering animals, man. Tough to read.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Ya know, I actually envy the elves. Babies grow too damn fast. I'd do anything to have a years worth of time with my baby at every RL-month of development.
Of course, I ain't the one feeding the little dude, so that's easy for me to say.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Takver
Got my book today. Agree with everyone who called out the Shojo & Scruffy panel as a heart-melter. But on that same page, the two Miko panels, Mr Scruffy remembering Miko as a horrible scary monster...I hadn't ever thought about Mr Scruffy being traumatized before :( My melted heart re-formed just so it could snap in two.
This also makes any moment since then, where Belkar has been seriously hurt in front of Mr Scruffy, retroactively more upsetting. And I am also now extra upset about Belkar's death prophecy. Poor little kitty.
Aww, man, I didn't think of it that way! Yeah, Scruffy's gonna be heartbroken again when Belkar dies. Unless Scruff goes down with him.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Merely wanted to share my agreement. My copy arrived last night and I thoroughly enjoyed the new material (and Southern Continent map!)
I agree with the Avatar-influenced Scruffy story, but I enjoyed the others much more. The Kato story was just so unusual. When do you see a D&D story that's just about a couple experiencing real-world stress while trying to solve a very fantasy problem in a completely non-confrontational manner? And how likable are they? Wonderful.
As for the Lien story, I can only say I enjoy how normal she is for a Paladin. Rich has said Miko is the worst way to portray a Paladin, while O-Chul is arguably the opposite, and Hinjo is very much a stereotypical fairy tale Paladin; a noble prince and leader of faith and daring. But Lien is just a woman who loves the sea and has an ingrained sense of right and wrong. I think Rich has subtly done a fantastic job exploring a class that is largely idealized in a single shade.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Gorgon_Heap
As for the Lien story, I can only say I enjoy how normal she is for a Paladin. Rich has said Miko is the worst way to portray a Paladin, while O-Chul is arguably the opposite, and Hinjo is very much a stereotypical fairy tale Paladin; a noble prince and leader of faith and daring. But Lien is just a woman who loves the sea and has an ingrained sense of right and wrong. I think Rich has subtly done a fantastic job exploring a class that is largely idealized in a single shade.
That's a great way to put it. O-Chul is the bright shining beacon of what people should strive to be, but Lien is what some people already are. Makes her incredibly easy to identify with (even more so if you love the water as well. Go Lien!).
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
godsflunky
Aww, man, I didn't think of it that way! Yeah, Scruffy's gonna be heartbroken again when Belkar dies. Unless Scruff goes down with him.
Or before of him.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Lissou
I wonder what Redcloak wanted with the carbuncle though.
The jewel eventually falls out and another one grows in its place. Seems a good reason to keep one around (as long as the food you feed it is less than the value of the jewel)
Grey Wolf
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Gorgon_Heap
Merely wanted to share my agreement. My copy arrived last night and I thoroughly enjoyed the new material (and Southern Continent map!)
I agree with the Avatar-influenced Scruffy story, but I enjoyed the others much more. The Kato story was just so unusual. When do you see a D&D story that's just about a couple experiencing real-world stress while trying to solve a very fantasy problem in a completely non-confrontational manner? And how likable are they? Wonderful.
As for the Lien story, I can only say I enjoy how normal she is for a Paladin. Rich has said Miko is the worst way to portray a Paladin, while O-Chul is arguably the opposite, and Hinjo is very much a stereotypical fairy tale Paladin; a noble prince and leader of faith and daring. But Lien is just a woman who loves the sea and has an ingrained sense of right and wrong. I think Rich has subtly done a fantastic job exploring a class that is largely idealized in a single shade.
Great points all. You're so right about the Katos' story (although as to non-confrontational: "Look, some mothers always have cough drops, then there's me."). And also about Lien. I hadn't thought of it from that angle. O-Chul is the man I want to be; Lien is much more like I actually am.
I can live with that.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Soooo... once I get my physical copy, where SHOULD I place it among my set? My current order is 1, 0, 2, -1, 3, 4, D, and 5. But really, where should 1/2 go?
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Gorgon_Heap
Hinjo is very much a stereotypical fairy tale Paladin; a noble prince and leader of faith and daring.
I agree with everything you said except this. I really feel that sells Hinjo seriously short, considering he's one of the most multidimensional characters in my eyes.
On the one hand, you have the man who strives to be the shining paragon of Paladins that O-Chul has shown him throughout HPGHS, and you see how he pulls it off in moments where he tries to talk down Miko after she killed the only family he had. That kind of moment showed just how selfless, honest, and good he is, that he could keep calm and strive to do the right thing without judging her for taking away the only family he had.
On the other, he's Shojo's nephew and the new ruler of Azure City: he's shown himself to have Shojo's cunning as a leader. He's deceptive to Elan in DStP in order to take down Kubota, he guilt trips Roy into being his bodyguard and bends the laws in The Trial of Belkar Bitterleaf: Abridged version.
With Hinjo, I see a duality and confliction of how to be the best Paladin he can be, and the leader he needs to be. When Daigo tells him "We need a leader more than a paladin" (paraphrase) as he's leaving Azure City (read: a not paladin act), you can see how torn he is.
O Chul represents the perfect Paladin. Miko represents the failure Paladin. Lien represents the human paladin, and Shojo undoubtably represents the pragmatic leader. Hinjo's not a stereotype, he's a deconstruction of how those positions interact, and arguably the most human and torn of the bunch. That he's also the one thrust in charge just makes his conflict all the sweeter.
(He's also my favorite character. If not blatantly obvious.)
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
I assume Hinjo's major role left to play isn't necessarily tied to the main action. Resolving things with Gobbotopia or getting involved with the Western Continent stuff comes to mind.
Interesting that Thog knew Nale when they were both children. Exotic child slave given to Nale as a birthday present? Adopted son of shoulderpads man?
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Gift Jeraff
I assume Hinjo's major role left to play isn't necessarily tied to the main action. Resolving things with Gobbotopia or getting involved with the Western Continent stuff comes to mind.
There's the prophecy ahoy Belkar saving Hinjo's life twice, though. Plus, speaking solely for myself, I wouldn't consider Gobbotopia or Western Comtinent resolutions to be major roles.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
0Megabyte
Soooo... once I get my physical copy, where SHOULD I place it among my set? My current order is 1, 0, 2, -1, 3, 4, D, and 5. But really, where should 1/2 go?
The stories bounce all over timeline-wise, since it's an anthology. But as O-Chul's story is the major piece, and it falls obviously between... dang, it falls between parts of SoD and DCF. But for my tastes, it fits better between SoD and DCF than anywhere else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gift Jeraff
I assume Hinjo's major role left to play isn't necessarily tied to the main action. Resolving things with Gobbotopia or getting involved with the Western Continent stuff comes to mind.
In a bonus strip in Paladin Blues, which I will spoiler here, Spoiler
Show
Sangwaan predicted that Belkar would save Hinjo's life twice. Many forum members have argued the second time has already happened indirectly somehow, but I disagree. I think Belkar is going to be in a position to directly save Hinjo's life once more
which argues for Hinjo playing a major role in the main story ahead... somehow.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
The scene after O'Chul and Hinjo learn the lore? Now I understand the pledge to 'share a drink' together.
Also, "the day you learn [all this heavy ****] is the day you come of age."
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Lien's parents were fishers, right, and not some kind of Noble Fishers? So in between O-Chul's story and Lien's story, Shojo managed to change the Sapphire Guard to the point where they were actively recruiting outside of nobility.
I agree that Hinjo will be at Kraagor's gate for part of book 7. He's basically the leader of the "ordinary" forces of good (and I love his character, too, Toad.)
Eve: GREAT catch on the "empathy download" line!! Much much much too specific not to be deliberate. Aaugh, what a genius touch.
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Originally Posted by
0Megabyte
Soooo... once I get my physical copy, where SHOULD I place it among my set? My current order is 1, 0, 2, -1, 3, 4, D, and 5. But really, where should 1/2 go?
After 4, I'd say. The Kato tale and Scruffy's tale both take place after or during the events of book 4. Edit: And I think the other three stories (Therkla, Lien, and O-Chul) would be way less meaningful without having first read 3 and 4. Therkla in particular--her story barely makes sense without that background.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Man, the scene between Therkla and Kubota where they talk about poisons hit me in the feels!
Kubota: Just be certain to hand in a list of which poisons you have studied, for our records.
Therkla: Uh, sure! You know, I bet I could learn even more about resisting poison, if that's something you think--
Kubota: No, that won't be necessary.
Poor Therkla....
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
And how about when Shojo comments that he should really get a door that will stop people from listening in on his conversations? Should have followed up on that one...