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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
PallentisLunam
I seem to recall flavor text saying that all dragons lose their pupils as they age, with older dragons simply having solid orbs reminiscent of their elemental type.
Isn't that only for true dragons, though? Sunwyrms are a standalone monster that happens to have the dragon type.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
Dire_Stirge
Isn't that only for true dragons, though? Sunwyrms are a standalone monster that happens to have the dragon type.
Okay fair point, but:
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Originally Posted by Fiend Folio pg. 165
A fanged mouth and horns dominate the creature's draconic head, and almost-liquid light seems to seep from its eyes.
Therefore, sunwryms have eyes.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
PallentisLunam
Okay fair point, but:
Therefore, sunwryms have eyes.
Nice find: guess you're right.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
The Sentry Ooze template states in the abilities section it is +2 Int. They are under the impression that doing this to a mindless ooze will give it an Int of 2, but nonabilities aren't zero.
It might have been said before, but Spikers have DR 2/bludgeoning. The text describes it as if it were DR 2/slashing or piercing.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
The Viscount
It might have been said before, but Spikers have DR 2/bludgeoning. The text describes it as if it were DR 2/slashing or piercing.
This one was said before, and it was pointed out that it was fixed in errata, so a close call but no dysfunction.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Book of Blood (Complete Arcane): one of it's powers is finger of death 1/day...
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but each such use permanently drains 1 hit point from the wielder.
Wait a minute, how the heck exactly works hp drain?
Is there any ways to protect from it (short of Timeless Body)?
How we can even restore drained hps?
Also, Book of Blood is one more unconventional way to kill the Tarrasque without resorting to Wish or Miracle: Regeneration doesn't do jack against the hp drain, so, if somebody with Book of Blood will possess T - after the ~ 2 years, 4 months, 2 weeks, and few days - it will be dead. It looks like very long and ineffective way to do it, but it's one more way to ignore supposedly-set-in-stone restriction
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The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.
Constructs who are made wholly of adamantine - such as Adamantine Golem or Animated Object (chunk of adamantine) - are incapable neither to overcome DR/adamantine, nor to ignore hardness up to 20
Spikes of Warforged from Spiked Body feat may cause damage: "1d6 points for a Medium warforged"; spikes of Warforged Juggernaut - "1d6 points of piercing damage" - regardless of size
Also,
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Healing Immunity: Starting at 3rd level, as a warforged juggernaut becomes more like a construct and less like a living creature, it becomes immune to the effects of spells from the healing subschool.
Guess: in which subschool are Raise Dead, Resurrection, and True Resurrection? :smallsigh:
(Also, no way to animate as Undead: Construct Perfection III cause immunity to Necromancy)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
ShurikVch
Book of Blood (
Complete Arcane): one of it's powers is
finger of death 1/day... Wait a minute, how the heck exactly works hp drain?
Is there any ways to protect from it (short of
Timeless Body)?
How we can even
restore drained hps?
Also, Book of Blood is one more unconventional way to kill the
Tarrasque without resorting to
Wish or
Miracle: Regeneration doesn't do jack against the hp drain, so, if somebody with Book of Blood will possess T - after the ~ 2 years, 4 months, 2 weeks, and few days - it will be dead. It looks like very long and ineffective way to do it, but it's one more way to ignore supposedly-set-in-stone restriction
You don't kill big T that way, you just incapacitate it permanently in yet another way. To kill it you still need a Wish or Miracle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ShurikVch
Spikes of Warforged from Spiked Body feat may cause damage: "1d6 points for a Medium warforged"; spikes of Warforged Juggernaut - "1d6 points of piercing damage" - regardless of size
No dysfunction. Weird, but no dysfunction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ShurikVch
'Cannot be raised or resurrected' is not a dysfunction. The same goes for 'cannot be raised as undead'. At most, it's an unintended consquence of following the rules, like a monk 20 becoming immune to Enlarge Person.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
Dire_Stirge
You don't kill big T that way, you just incapacitate it permanently in yet another way. To kill it you still need a Wish or Miracle.
Dead:
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The character’s hit points are reduced to -10, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character’s soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies.
Also, line about "wish or miracle" is in the Regeneration SQ. Regeneration doesn't do a thing against hp drain, and Dead creatures are incapable to regenerate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dire_Stirge
'Cannot be raised or resurrected' is not a dysfunction. The same goes for 'cannot be raised as undead'. At most, it's an unintended consquence of following the rules, like a monk 20 becoming immune to Enlarge Person.
Isn't many of dysfunctions are exactly "an unintended consquence of following the rules" (such as, for example, Dread Necromancer can be harmed by his own Negative Energy Burst)?
I pointed it as dysfunction, because I seriously doubt writer's intention was: "If Juggernaut is dead - then it should stay dead! Yes, and no necromancy! I wouldn't allow a robot zombie in my game!"
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Also HP drain is explicitly healed by Wish or Miracle in the rules for it in BoED. I did not realize there was a second source of it gloating around the game though.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
ShurikVch
Isn't many of dysfunctions are exactly "an unintended consquence of following the rules" (such as, for example, Dread Necromancer can be harmed by his own Negative Energy Burst)?
I pointed it as dysfunction, because I seriously doubt writer's intention was: "If Juggernaut is dead - then it should stay dead! Yes, and no necromancy! I wouldn't allow a robot zombie in my game!"
I think it is totally intended. Warforged Juggernauts become more construct-like, and constructs cannot be raised or animated. Without specific spells of course.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
ZamielVanWeber
Also HP drain is explicitly healed by Wish or Miracle in the rules for it in BoED. I did not realize there was a second source of it gloating around the game though.
Ah, Vassal of Bahamut... :smallsmile:
Indeed - it cause "permanent hit point drain"
But, by the RAW, "wish or miracle spell can restore hit points drained permanently by a vassal's dragonwrack ability."
Thus, ways to restore hit point drain by any other reason - such as Book of Blood - is still unclear
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Originally Posted by
zergling.exe
I think it is totally intended. Warforged Juggernauts become more construct-like, and constructs cannot be raised or animated. Without specific spells of course.
Rebuild Item utterance actually able to restore at least some of Constructs - since Craft Construct is [Item Creation] feat, Constructs are items
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Isn't there also 'revive construct'? Is that a healing spell?
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
No brains
Isn't there also 'revive construct'? Is that a healing spell?
AFAIK, 'revive construct' is a homebrew
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
In relation to ShurikVch's quote about the dead condition, while I haven't read the rules regarding HP drain, I would contend that while the target's HPs are going down, this is different that reducing their HP via damage. You are changing the total possible value rather than the current value.
How is it even possible to have a HP max of -10. Isn't there a rule that states a creature always has a minimum of 1 HP per HD?
Apologies if this is addressed in the rules for HP drain.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
ShurikVch
AFAIK, 'revive construct' is a homebrew
I was sure it was in spell compendium next to revive outsider...
Regarding the tarrasque, I suppose the thing that keeps it 'alive' at -10 hp is that its soul doesn't leave at that point. We need wish or miracle to boot that spark out.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
PallentisLunam
In relation to ShurikVch's quote about the dead condition, while I haven't read the rules regarding HP drain I would contend that while the target'still HPs are going down this is different that reducing their HP via damage. You are changing the total possible value rather than the current value.
How is it even possible to have a HP max of -10. Isn't there a rule that states a creature always has a minimum of 1 HP per HD?
Apologies if this is addressed in the rules for HP drain.
I'm pretty sure that rule only applies to HP penalties per hit die. It's to stop you rolling negative health as you level a character
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
nailbudday
I'm pretty sure that rule only applies to HP penalties per hit die. It's to stop you rolling negative health as you level a character
IIRC the rule is that you cannot roll below a 1 on health, but if your Con drops your max HP can fall under what that rule would provide. EX: A person with 3 levels, a d4, and a Con of 4 would have 3 HP max. If they took one Con damage their max HP would fall to 0 and they would suffer appropriate.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
No brains
I was sure it was in spell compendium next to revive outsider...
Regarding the tarrasque, I suppose the thing that keeps it 'alive' at -10 hp is that its soul doesn't leave at that point. We need wish or miracle to boot that spark out.
You are mistaken. The spell immediately before revive outsider is reverse arrows. Revive construct does not exist in 3.5 (though it really should) since the spell right after is revive undead.
Interestingly, this brings me to a related dysfunction:
If you take at least 3 levels of warforged juggernaut, you cannot be brought back from the dead with any of the normal rez spells. you'd have to be reincarnated or last breathed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ZamielVanWeber
IIRC the rule is that you cannot roll below a 1 on health, but if your Con drops your max HP can fall under what that rule would provide. EX: A person with 3 levels, a d4, and a Con of 4 would have 3 HP max. If they took one Con damage their max HP would fall to 0 and they would suffer appropriate.
Yes, that's correct. it's on p58 of the phb.
If you take the frail flaw under these circumstances, you can have 0hp for the level.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
A crowbar gives a +2 bonus on strength checks made for "such purposes"; no context given.
Hitting someone with a hammer deals as much bludgeoning damage as a spiked gauntlet of its size, which is zero.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
Jormengand
A crowbar gives a +2 bonus on strength checks made for "such purposes"; no context given.
Hitting someone with a hammer deals as much bludgeoning damage as a spiked gauntlet of its size, which is zero.
The text is elaborated upon and given the required context in the PHB. Why those parts were removed from the SRD is beyond me.
How do you figure? A spiked gauntlet is a light weapon that deals 1d4 points of damage for a medium creature. Therefore a hammer, as a one-handed weapon made for a medium creature, should deal 1d6.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
I know it's not for serious, but still: Pig Bound - pig is "maximum load"; clothing have listed weights; does it mean hypothetical Pig Bound Commoner should be also either immobile, naked, or mounted?
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PallentisLunam
How do you figure? A spiked gauntlet is a light weapon that deals 1d4 points of damage for a medium creature. Therefore a hammer, as a one-handed weapon made for a medium creature, should deal 1d6.
Meaning a Spiked Gauntlet does precisely 0 Bludgeoning damage. It does deal piercing damage though.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Couldn't the sentence be read as 'deals as much bludgeoning damage as the amount of damage done by a spiked gauntlet of its size?'.
A spiked gauntlet deals 1d4 points of damage: type is irrelevant. Therefore, a hammer deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
Dire_Stirge
Couldn't the sentence be read as 'deals as much bludgeoning damage as the amount of damage done by a spiked gauntlet of its size?'.
A spiked gauntlet deals 1d4 points of damage: type is irrelevant. Therefore, a hammer deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage.
Oh yeah, that's clearly the way everyone both initially and should interpret it. The whole sensible interpretation thing means it probably shouldn't be added to the handbook or anything. I was just trying to clarify what the proposed dysfunction was.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
ShurikVch
immobile, naked, or mounted
I really want to make a certain Brooklyn Nine Nine reference here.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Can't remember if I mentioned this before, but casting Alter Self to turn into a swarm doesn't grant you swarm traits. Which means that despite your body physically turning into thousands of little critters, you can somehow still be grappled.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dire_Stirge
Couldn't the sentence be read as 'deals as much bludgeoning damage as the amount of damage done by a spiked gauntlet of its size?'.
A spiked gauntlet deals 1d4 points of damage: type is irrelevant. Therefore, a hammer deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage.
I don't think it could be. If I say "There are as many green feathers in the box as in the barrel", that means "The number of feathers which are green and in the box is the same as the number of feathers which are green and in the barrel", not "The number of feathers which are in the box is the same as the number of feathers which are in the barrel, and also the ones in the box are green but I can make no assurances about the colours of the ones in the barrel."
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
Jormengand
I don't think it could be. If I say "There are as many green feathers in the box as in the barrel", that means "The number of feathers which are green and in the box is the same as the number of feathers which are green and in the barrel", not "The number of feathers which are in the box is the same as the number of feathers which are in the barrel, and also the ones in the box are green but I can make no assurances about the colours of the ones in the barrel."
Well that depends on the context. This might just be me but if I don't know the contents of the barrel, or if the barrel has some known number of green feathers in it, I'd assume that there are as many green feathers in it as in the box. But if I know that if there are some number of feathers in the barrel and NONE of them are green, I'd assume you meant "There are as many green feathers in the box as total feathers in the barrel" and not "There are zero green feathers you dummy" (barring obvious sarcasm). I think that "A hammer deals the same damage that a spiked gauntlet does, but as bludgeoning damage" is valid since we know a spiked gauntlet doesn't deal bludgeoning damage.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
I personally think that in a RAW based thread, we need to look at what an ability says, not what we think it's obvious that it means.
Unrelated: Gen, who cannot cast spells and, when forced to fight, do so with their slam attack, have the Combat Casting and Weapon Finesse feats.
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IX: 1d3 Dysfunctions from the 8th Level List
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Originally Posted by
Jormengand
I personally think that in a RAW based thread, we need to look at what an ability says, not what we think it's obvious that it means.
The point is that when you have a sentence that requires parsing, and one way of parsing it has no dysfunction and the other does, it's not a dysfunction. Or at least, not a strong one. If the rule was "you get 100 gp every time you give me all the red feathers in that magic box that generates red feathers sometimes," and there are no red feathers in the box, the rule either means you can't give any red feathers until some appear, or that you get infinite gp because you can give me 0 red feathers in an infinitesimally small time. The one is clearly dysfunctional, but that doesn't mean it's what the rule says, per se.