On Judging
Generally my philosophy is that I start all categories at three points and then increase or decrease. If something is substantial it is usually a half point or greater increase if it is not substantial it’s probably a more limited increase. For something really major it could be a whole point. For this particular challenge, I decided not to penalize originality for any of the expected ways to gain weapon specialization. So Favored Soul, Warblade, Bloodstorm Blade any of those or similar will not have any penalty associated.
Sir Alfred - 14 (13.75 pre-dispute) Points Total
Spoiler: Originality = 4 Points
Show
This is definitely a very original take on this. Ranged combat is rare in 3.5, as to be generally unexpected. There’s no Tome of Battle here, which would be the natural expected choice for a weapon focused character. Overall very unique. Ranger was something I was definitely not expecting to see.
+.5 Ranger (And Non Martial Initiator)
+.5 Swift Scion
Spoiler: Power = 2.75 Points
Show
Generally speaking a ranged archery focused character without any particular specialized support is not going to be the most powerful character. I’ll compare it to similar scout based characters.
I’m going to knock off a half point for being a scouting focused build and not having any points in Spot and Listen, also for not having Darkstalker. That’s a recipe for a lot of trouble if you’re having your character sneak around. Honestly trading your initial “Stealthy” Feat for Dark Stalker would be a really significant and good option here. But having no ability to spot or listen means that you are likely to be the one getting surprised.
The Wisdom damage gimmick is pretty good, although limited by times per day, and not applying your sneak or precision dice. So that is a somewhat weaker synergy. I think that dealing that kind of ability damage does put you somewhat ahead of many archery focused builds though, so I’ll bring you back up a quarter point for that.
Spoiler: Elegance = 3.50 Points
Show
Elegance is one place where this really great build has some problems. I’m adding a quarter point because you included the weird reflex save progression as written and mentioned it. I’m taking a quarter point because of the high number of short dips. Those are inelegant, although they make sense here, but it does lower the overall elegance of the build.
There is also some question as to whether Distracting Strike works with ranged weapons. For me that’s equivalent to knocking one quarter point off. I think it would be reasonable to have it work, but it is something that requires a favorable rules interpretation. However it’s not something that is mandatory for the build.
I’ll give a half point for the build being fairly consistent and smooth in progression. You start out as an archer, and you’re an archer the whole way 1 - 20, improving as an Archer throughout your progression.
+.25 Included Weird Reflex save progression as written. (3.25)
-.25 Lots of Dips
+.5 Consistent Progression
-.25 Distracting Strike Ranged Weapons
Spoiler: Use of Components = 3.75 Points
Show
You have weapon specialization, a weapon that is bonded and increases in strength with your character. That’s a full point increase in my opinion. Very true to the spirit of the challenge. Nicely done!
There is a problem, however. You are at 9th level by the time you get your weapon. That’s a really rough point. You spend potentially more than half of your adventuring career without a bonded weapon. So that’s a quarter-point deduction.
+.5 Weapon that improves as the character does. Truly Bonded Weapon.
+.5 No levels in Fighter.
-.25 Character doesn’t get access to the weapon until level 9.
Final Take and Opinions On Alfred
I really liked this build, I wish it had come online a little earlier. Ranged builds are pretty uncommon in 3.5. It has a fun story. I’ll admit that I went back and forth on where to assign points between this one and Ellay quite a bit. Even though you are ranked second you turned in an outstanding build and I think a great job on this one.
Ellay Hol - 14 Points Total
Spoiler: Originality = 3.25 Points
Show
While Pious Templar is one of the more obvious methods of gaining Weapon Specialization, I’m not going to be deducting any points for any of those as you need at least one of them. I will add points for options that I wouldn’t have thought of.
The Relic and Ancestral Weapon options were an interesting method, not terribly unexpected though. I feel like this build is so thematically appropriate that it doesn’t really need to be that original. Paladin Knight with a magic Sword is like a classic. I’ll give you a quarter point for not taking any levels of Martial initiator.
+ .25 - Non Martial Initiator
Spoiler: Power = 3 Points
Show
As a martial build this one lacks a lot of super exciting tricks. There’s no pounce to make the Charging Smite really stick. You do get a few smites and generally you have a pretty decent martial character. But you don’t really have any answers to the traditional martial problems. You can’t full attack and move. You don’t have a mount to fix that. I would say that this is a playable character in a practical optimization game. So I will give no negatives or positives. You wind up with Paladin Spellcasting. You wind up with ways to boost your weapon. It’s serviceable, but nothing crazy.
I will say that you’ve made a couple of choices that I’m not sure why you made them. Half-Elf as a race for example. If you’re getting some power boost from that let me in a dispute and I’ll correct it.
Spoiler: Elegance = 3.75 Points
Show
Elegance is where this build really shines. It is a fluid build. You’re not taking dips all over the place. When you give something up you often get it back immediately thereafter. It is doing the gimmick of the build almost immediately from the start. So I’ll give a quarter point for regaining things you’re trading away, and a half point for very smooth progression.
I’ll deduct a quarter point for using Battle Blessing with Pious Templar… technically it probably works, but it’s something where you need a favorable ruling and that hurts the elegance a little bit. Again it’s something that probably would work, but it’s going to be a conversation.
I’ll add a quarter point for having your build's sweet spot be at level 9. That’s a reasonable level to see in many campaigns. If you had it a little earlier, it’d be a half point, but level 9 is fairly early.
+.25 Regains everything you give up.
+.5 Smooth Progression Throughout
- .25 Battle Blessing
+.25 Sweet Spot At Level 9
Spoiler: Use of Component= 4 Points
Show
This is another area where Ellay excels. She gains use of the weapon at level 3, as early as you possibly could. It’s not as powerful or unique as some of the options but it is available very early. So that’s half a point. Another half a point for completely avoiding fighter levels.
+.5 Gains Bonded Weapon at level 3
+.5 Avoids Fighter Levels completely.
Final Take and Opinions on Ellay Hol
This is just a great build, Paladin with a magic sword. It is a classic. It’s a little weaker than I might like in terms of power. But it’s still workable in most PO environments. Very elegant, I really like the use of Pious Templar. Overall just a great build. Really fun thematically, cool story. Only thing I don’t know about is why you picked Half-Elf or Longsword. Those are minor things though and they don’t really detract from the build. Definitely deserves the highest score despite having some tough competition.
Cu Chulainn - 13.25 Points Total
Spoiler: Originality = 3.25 Points
Show
Legacy Champion, Warblade, and Kensai are all fairly expected entries here. Given how difficult it is to wrangle the specifics I’m not going to knock off any points for them being there. Divine Crusader is mildly unexpected, and the Heretic of the Faith route is also, so I’ll bump you a quarter point for that.
+.25 Divine Crusader and Hereitic of the Faith.
Spoiler: Power = 4.25 Points
Show
You definitely picked some of the more powerful options. 9th level spellcasting, even limited 9th level spell casting is a huge boost in power to your character. a Domain Power that really works with the character with few drawbacks. Also it thematically fits with the origin of the character. Generally when I’m judging a character on power I try to consider how their options might have made them compare to their peers. Limited 9th level casting is a full point increase, in my opinion.
And I’m going to add a quarter point for the domain power. Which just really fits well, pushing Wisdom for Strength on a character like this is just really great, thematically and in terms of power.
+.25 Wrath Domain Power
+1 9th Level Spells
Spoiler: Elegance = 2.5 Points
Show
Using a one level dip in Knight is a pretty inelegant way of gaining the ride skill. I’m going to knock off a quarter point for a one level dip there, it’s not the most elegant solution to that problem, although I grant it might be the only one that works for that build.
I’m also going to knock off a quarter point from going from being a mostly martial initiator to being a spellcasting character. That’s a really significant shift in the character and there’s no attempt at all to maintain the character’s martial progression through feats or anything it’s basically just abandoned which isn’t the worst but it is inelegant.
-.25 Knight Dip
-.25 Switching From Initiating to Spellcasting
Spoiler: Use of Components = 3.25 Points
Show
Gains access to the bonded weapon at level 6, that’s pretty reasonable no gain or loss there. Since you’re using Kensai that is the earliest potential entry there and puts you roughly in the middle of the two competitors I have rated previously.
Legacy Champion works well here provided that you’re able to make an argument that it does scale with your previous weapon. I think that’s probably reasonable but that could be a sticking point. No points lost there, just worth mentioning.
Out of the builds that took weapon specialization you take it at level 14 which is the latest, so I will dock you a quarter point there.
-.25 Takes 14 levels to get a component.
+.5 No levels in Fighter
Final Thoughts on Cu Chulainn
You are third place here in name only. This is a really fun build. I love the use of the concept; it really fits that. I think it just needed a little polishing to get it over the line. Like it’s so close to being just an amazing build, well it is an amazing build. It’s very close to winning this competition, out of all the builds here that actually complete the challenge yours is the one I think could have improved the most and it’s a really fun build. I think that with a few adjustments you could have taken first or second, no doubt.
Also of note, your build has the single highest category score, 4.25 in Power.
John - 10.25 Points
Spoiler: Originality = 3.5
Show
I was certainly not expecting to see artificer here as a build component. So that is a half point increase. Definitely an interesting idea. And I’ve never seen a Warblade/Artificer ever so that is an interesting concept. Definitely worth half a point.
Artificer +.5
Spoiler: Power= 3.75
Show
For a martial character using heroics to gain floating feats is actually quite strong that increase your strength considerably past other comparable characters.
Obviously Artificer jank and WBL manipulation is very strong, it’s likely to make your party stronger, that is about a half point increase for me on that. When it works despite how inelegant it is… it’s pretty decent. That is a half point increase.
+.25 Heroics Feats Strategy
+.5 Item Manipulation is very strong.
Spoiler: Elegance = 2
Show
Artificers are, on the whole, inelegant. Any time you have a class where you have potential to really mess up WBL and where you have this kind of shenanigan is something where you have to discuss things with your DM fairly constantly. I deduct a flat quarter point for anything like that. So you’re off a quarter point because your entire build revolves around that. I know the struggle, my favorite build back when I was doing IC had the same issue. And I’ll note I was penalized much more heavily for it. And because your build entirely relies on it, I’ll take another quarter point.
Your progression choices are a little confusing, You’re not using what might be considered the classical martial initiator progressions and therefore you are picking up maneuvers significantly later than you otherwise might. And I get that you’re doing the artificer thing, but probably you should have sprinkled Warblade levels throughout at the appropriate points in order to gain the most benefit. So that is again a half point reduction, it’s important to not get so lost in Artificer stuff and heroics that you forget the actual progression of your initiator stuff.
-.5 Heavily Relies on WBL manipulation and items.
-.5 Poor Initiator Progression.
Spoiler: Use of Components = 1
Show
You did not use weapon specialization. I know that you wrote a thing about it, you didn’t use it. If Gordan Ramsey told you to make a dish with curry and you made one without and gave him a shaker full of curry he would… tell you to leave his restaurant and it’s worse because you have the curry. There are multiple feats that you could have removed and taken Weapon Specialization with, you’d have still been docked for taking it late, but you’d have had it. That is a full point reduction.
Cortana is… not a weapon. I know you wrote a thing about this too, but it’s not a weapon unless you are using it to attack in this case you are not. You are using it as a familiar and that’s a pretty good use, it makes your character more powerful but it is not weapon it does not meet the requirements of the challenge, that is a full point reduction.
-1 No Weapon Specialization
-1 No Bonded Weapon
Thoughts and Opinions on John
You… didn’t do the challenge man. It’s hard for me to rate this one because it didn’t actually do either part of the challenge, like at all. Like instead of taking cost reduction stuff after Warblade 6 you could have just taken Weapon Specialization. I realize that the reason you didn’t is because you didn’t actually have a bonded weapon in which to specialize and to me that compounds the problem. I get that you can write two paragraphs of explanation but this build does not meet the criteria of the challenge at all.
Edit: Let me know if I missed anything super obvious, I'll welcome disputes or what not!