A villain who goes out in style is one who showed their worth as an antagonist.
Pathetic villains get cruddy deaths, like being dropped down the chimney of a factory.
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I thought Obi-Wan and Yoda splitting up in the movie was pretty stupid too. That and Obi-Wan not even making sure Anakin died.
Meh... yeah, there was not much use to it but I guess I'd have expected each to win their fight. (How did Yoda lose again? :smallconfused:)
Any Obi-Wan... well, Anakin was pretty much dead, it's mostly a surprise he lived... or Obi-Wan never intended to really kill him but merely ounish him? No idea.
On the most recent strip... Yay for player-character separation. Jim's acting skills are truly amazing...
In the novelization, Yoda realizes he's simply outclassed by Sidious- since he's been training all these 800+ odd years, to fight the last war, whereas the Sith have reinvented themselves, giving them the edge.
When they first split up:
Obi-Wan: "Palpatine took on four of the greatest swordsmen in the Jedi Order. By himself. Even together, we wouldn't have a chance."
Yoda: "True. But apart, a chance we might create."
It doesn't work, of course.
Personally, if I had been yoda I would have said, "Look obi boy, ive been training for hundreds of years, obviously I have the best shot here. You hang back while I fight him and concentrate on disrupting palpatines movements. Try to trip him, or slow his movement speed, even a little. That should break his concentration and make it possible to kill him." Only, you know, with really mixed up grammar. Honestly, that scene where sideous is chucking senator seats at yoda would have been the perfect time for obi wan to throw a rock at his head or something. Of course, that scene where yoda is trying to hold on and slips off really annoyed me. The guy can leap like an energizer bunny on crack speed and whiskey, but he cant do a chin up?
Eh, fatigue gets to the best of us. It's easy to criticize and over-estimate abilities sitting at a chair, watching a computer screen, but after fighting his way into a castle then duking it out with Sidious like that he's got to be feeling the burn. After an hour at the Gym, I'm in no shape to do a chin up either.
Alternately, he uses The Force to argument himself, as, despite being pretty spry for an old guy, he's got limits. Now as told to me, The Force depends on confidence. He starts to think he might lose, and so he enters a vicious cycle, and his control goes away. And suddenly he's a frail guy getting on the years and hanging to the edge of a Occupational Health and Safety disaster if there ever was one.
It's actually pretty logical, honestly. Yoda was pretty dependent on the power of the force to move like that, due to his extreme age and infirmity. It could be that you have to refresh the power from time to time, and his strength/dexterity buff just ran out moments before... I guess we'll see how they run it in the comic within the next month.
Edit: Or Cracklord's explanation for why it ran out, crazy ninjas....
I dunno, he was strong enough to gouge fingermarks into what looks like metal, but not able to pull himself up? I realize it was all dramatic and such, it just seemed a bit off. Though I suppose that if he was relying on force enhancements, going up against an evil sith lord, he might be able to suppress his abilities somewhat. Sort of like two force pushes cancelling each other out.
Yeah... I'm with Traab on that one. Jedi can lift giant massive pieces of junk so he they should be just as easily able to lift themselves if they can't do it by their own strength.So unless Yoda really just ran out of juice which seems unlikely it was a pretty dumb way to create tension in the fight... imo.
Its been awhile, was the fingernail mark fall at the very end of the fight? Or did he have to dodge flying saucers for awhile after he dropped? If that was the very end then it IS entirely possible that he ran out of energy.
It was at the very end. But there was no indication of him being tired out.
Also, then he says how he failed and must go into exile, which makes exactly ero sense. That fight was a draw at worst.
Also, the start of the fight, the two of them looked basically evenly matched. Cut away, cut back and suddenly Palpatine is flinging senate seats down at Yoday. How did they get to that position?
Also, how is Yoda fatigued and yet Palpatine, who is just as old (relative by race) is not?
Sith maaaaaaaaagic.
They got that way because they got knocked back out of melee range and instead of charging back in, sideous thought it would be a good idea to wear yoda out by making him dodge block or deflect heavy objects. Yes, yes, "size matters not" but obviously it DOES matter, or else yoda would have just made a gesture and crushed the entire senate building into a 5 foot by 5 foot cube with sideous paste in the center or something. And it WAS a loss. Yoda had to retreat, sideous is still alive and in control of the empire, yoda lost.
As for why is yoda weaker? My vote goes with, sideous has been training all this time, over all these years, while yoda has spent more time sitting on his ass running the jedi council, so he is in less of a fighting trim perhaps? Plus, considering virtually everything yoda does in a fight requires the force, including just MOVING, it makes sense that he would wear out sooner.
When would Sideous have had time to train? He was either a Senator or a GRAND CHANCELLOR for pretty much the entire series. When he wasn't doing that he was putting his evil plans in motion. He was also constantly using the Force to mask his presence as a Dark Jedi and his appearance. I'm just confused as to how that makes any sense.
Also, Sideous has to use the force to "move" the same way Yoda does in that fight, so that's not much of an excuse.
Yeah but the difference between yoda and sideous is that yoda can barely limp along with a cane without using the force, its a matter of scale. Sideous may need to use the force to further enhance his abilities, but he isnt starting at the level of near cripple like yoda is. Plus, the size difference would make it likely that yoda needs to use MORE of the force to match sideous on a purely physical level. Learn to apply your size modifiers people! :smalltongue:
Also, as someone already mentioned, the force requires focus to use effectively, and the sith tend to try and screw with said focus.
The more reasonable explanation is that Yoda realizes that ganging up on someone in a lightsaber duel never works out. The laws of dramatics in Star Wars clearly favor single combat, and bringing more along is just asking for trouble. At best they'll be injured and taken out of the fight without being killed; at worst, you all die because your reliance on superior numbers has marked you as a Bad Guy.
Observe: Episode I's battle with Darth Maul is a stalemate until they're separated and Qui-Gon dies, allowing Obi-Wan to defeat him single-handedly. Episode II's duel with Dooku? Anakin and Obi-Wan try to take him on together and are soundly thrashed; Yoda comes in and challenges him to single combat and wins. Yoda knows how this works.
The rematch early in Episode III goes better, but the pattern remains clear: Anakin only wins after Dooku disposes of Obi-Wan. He's lucky they made this mistake too early in the movie to kill off a protagonist.
I'm not sure we should count the duels with General Grievous, as he's clearly kind of a pansy in the movies, but the rule holds true here as well: Anakin and Obi-Wan fail to catch him together, Obi-Wan succeeds working alone.
Lastly, look at the attempt to arrest Palpatine. Mace Windu brought along four Jedi Masters so they could all gang up on him, and they all die in the first thirty seconds so that he can have a dramatic duel with Palpatine. Which he loses.
The observational evidence is clear!
(Less facetiously, Yoda probably imagined that Obi-Wan would be quickly killed if he brought him along to face Palpatine. Considering what happened to Mace Windu's companions, he might have been right. They could have gone to face Anakin together, but he didn't think Obi-Wan needed his help, and he was right about that, too.)
You may be right, but you also need to consider experience. Obi wan has had a lot of experience, relatively speaking, fighting the sith. He killed horn head, after fighting him twice. He fought dooku twice, he has been one of the jedi who has faced against the sith the most out of this entire generation. Thats ignoring all his clone wars combat experience and killing grievous.Quote:
(Less facetiously, Yoda probably imagined that Obi-Wan would be quickly killed if he brought him along to face Palpatine. Considering what happened to Mace Windu's companions, he might have been right. They could have gone to face Anakin together, but he didn't think Obi-Wan needed his help, and he was right about that, too.)
Yeah he likely would have been outgunned in a one on one fight, but the smart money would have had obi wan hang back and wait for openings to take pot shots at sideous, or to break his concentration should he start to get the upper hand. He is skilled enough to not be wiped out like a fricking padawan as mace's buddies were, so if sideous DID go after him to take him out, then he would have left himself wide open to yodas counter.
So... Anakin kills Padme so she doesn't ruin her own good name?
Mace: Don't forget, we'll have to use the Ancient Jedi Defense technique of standing there while our enemy kills us.
Other Jedi: Got it!
Mace: Hehehe...
Seriously, I know Ian McDiarmid was too old to do too much complicated and extravagant sword-fighting, but at least make it believable, guys. :smallsigh: On the other hand, this scene did inspire my friend and I to design the Sith Death Stab, so there's that.
Look, we can come up with any force-related reason for why they split up, why Yoda retreated, etc. Those are easy to whip out while sitting at a computer chair as well. But I think it is pretty obvious that the reason they split up was so we could have two fight scenes at the end of the film. It was a plot contrivance.
The EU can explain anything, but in the movie's terms, it was a bad idea to split up. The suggestion that Yoda was just tired and made a stupid decision doesn't sit well with me either - that makes the plot contrivance worse, in my opinion.
The more likely explanation is that Palpatine knew he couldn't beat Mace, and was only trying to hold him off as long as possible until Anakin arrived. And he knew Anakin would come.
Depends on what id have to gain from throwing the fight. Lets look at it logically, 9 times out of 10, if someone surrenders, a jedi will accept that surrender. So if all palpy did was fight a defensive battle after killing all of maces support, he could hold out until anakin got there and bring us to the moment of truth. If worse came to worse, he could have surrendered and set up the choice in another way.
Sunday's episode is going to be number 600. Which is a multiple of 50, so don't forget to check here (the chain is starting to get really long).
How? This is my issue.
I'm not saying it's completely unbelievable it could happen, bt from the way the duel was going, I can't see how it would. It seems to me those making the film didn't know either, so they just had it happen off-screen.
No, it was a draw. Neither of them beat the other, and by the end both were disarmed and fairly worn out. This doesn't really match up to Yoda declaring he's failed and must go into exile. There's nothing to stop him trying again tomorrow.
Actually he won, but then there was a sudden reversal brought about by the arrival of Anakin. Which, given Anakin's allegiances were blurry at that point, could be seen as playing the system. By turning up to support Mace, he ensured Palpatine's victory. By helping Palpatine, he ensured his victory even more!
No, it was a loss, yoda only had one shot to try and sneak in to kill palpatine. Up until he made his move, the emperor didnt know he was still alive, or that he intended to come back and kill the sith lord. Now he is on his guard and everyone in coruscant is looking for a little green man who tried to assassinate the emperor. Strictly speaking from a combat standpoint it was a draw, but as far as end results go, it was a loss by yoda, because he failed to kill the sith lord, and now he will have an entire empire hunting him down. Palpatine is the winner because he is still the emperor, still in command, and still alive. It isnt a total victory, since yoda escaped, but it was still far more heavily slanted in his favor than yodas.Quote:
No, it was a draw. Neither of them beat the other, and by the end both were disarmed and fairly worn out. This doesn't really match up to Yoda declaring he's failed and must go into exile. There's nothing to stop him trying again tomorrow.
Alternatively, Yoda could have felt that a two-on-one fight was "dishonorable"
and worse, as a Jedi Master bringing a subordinate along smacked too much of "the Sith way." Rememeber the Sith always came in pairs - Master and Apprentice, so I can see him declaring "That the Jedi way is not!" Proving once again the whole Jedi Order is Lawful Stupid.
I thought I read somewhere that Puppeteen became as powerful as he did by making a lot of clones of himself and absorbing their essences (as well as a whole lot of people that he killed), that it was the equivalent of living a hundred lifetimes or something to that effect. That's probably just an EU exaggeration, but we know from ROTS that he and his master before him were concerned with longevity and avoiding death. I imagine the combination of that and the cloning wasn't accidental.
Well, except the jedi have a padawaan with them most of the time (or that's what Obi-wan and Qui-Gon made us believe) and do fight in pairs about as often as not. Palpatine as the evil emperor was the far bigger threat to the galaxy so they should have focused on him. Anakin wouldn't have been an issue afterwards, probably.
Thats actually a good point. At that part of the story, anakin wasnt much more than a rogue jedi. Hell, he was in the process of shutting down the entire evil rebellion. He didnt have the capability of being more than a dangerous single person, since he didnt have the intelligence to try and take control, the connections to pull it off, or the allies to protect him from retribution.
Exactly. Anakin wasn't in any official position of power. He led troops into the temple, sure, but his function at this time seems to have been more like an assassin (see Mustafar). If the Emperor had been defeated Anakin's right to power would have been dubious at best. Yoda and Obi-Wan (who is also said to be one of the order's best fighters, according to the EU) should have focused on Palpatine together. They had the element of surprise. Yoda came close to beating Palpatine on his own. Obi-Wan has had unique experience battling a Sith (both Maul and Dooku) so he would be aware of what they are capable of to an extent that the other Jedi who Sidious took down were not.
When fighting Mace and the other Jedi, Palpatine seems to make a Force Scream while spinning through the air. In the EU Force Scream has the ability to break an opponent's concentration and control over the Force temporarily. It clearly broke through the mental defenses of all the Jedi except Mace Windu. However, I think Obi-Wan has learned from his encounters with Sith that concentration and patience is key to victory (he learned this in his fight against Maul and tried to remind Anakin of this against Dooku). I suspect that Obi-Wan would have sufficient focus to withstand a Force Scream. Obi-Wan would then be able to face Palpatine as a swordsman only slightly less powerful than Mace Windu - this coupled with Yoda's help would have been too much for Palpatine too withstand.
On its own, the movie doesn't work, and I think even in EU terms its logic doesn't work.
Had they concentrated on palpatine, anakin would have been left adrift. He had only just made his choice. He was no longer a jedi, but he had no idea on how to be a sith. He wouldnt have even known where to BEGIN finding sith techniques, let alone the one he went evil for, a way to save padme. Im seeing a blind rage berserker anakin going around trying to kill everyone he blames for costing padme her life. (if she died) Im also picturing him dying quickly, as he is jedi trained, and blind rage doesnt work too well for them. As a fully trained sith he would know how to use it, but he isnt a trained sith, so it would make him weak and easily killed.
Or he would be sort of another Aurra Sing. A bounty hunter with jedi training. Constantly being hunted by the jedi order for his massacre of the younglings, and hunted by the entire republic for the same reasons. But I tend to think he would only go that route if he survived his blind rage reaction to learning that palpatine is dead.
Obi-Wan's expression at the end of today's strip was fantastic.
He posted before the strip was up, so yeah, one strip behind.
Suddenly, Pirates!
Oh god, I think he has caught the Grievous infection. If he starts talking about butterflys and such, I may have to root for obi wan to win.
You know, Jim has played a girl eight times now, counting all the Episode 50 joke comics. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Wow, just wow. I love how they put the images with Annie's speech to perfection. Excellent work.
Jim tends to be given roles where the canonical character's demeanour is anything but the enthusiastic shoot-first-ask-questions-later-and-on-a-totally-unrelated-topic persona that Jim's characters tend to have, though often characters who do get action parts later in the film/series. Most of such being female makes sense, methinks.
Oh I'm not complaining, I think it's hilarious and you're right, it does make sense. I just think it's noteworthy since Jim is the worst roleplayer of the bunch, yet he's often doing what's regarded as one of the most difficult things to pull off successfully, which is playing a character of the opposite sex.
I feel like Annie would play Han for some reason. Though Jim could pull that one off.
For some reason, I have a feeling that we won't be seeing Annie much after Episode III. It seems like the plot's building up to the "Annie/Anakin getting pissed at Jim/Padme" climax both IC and OOC, with the whole pregnancy thing.
Now that I think about it, that doesn't seem right, but it's my gut reaction that Annie leaves the group.
If Ben is to play Obi-Wan in the original trilogy, then him switching to Leia makes the most sense - she is the one who joins the main party as it is when he dies. Then again, she is the first main character to pop up, so I guess her being a PC from the start makes a certain amount of sense. Of course, who's to say that we won't get some new players somewhere along the line?
I am still fairly sure of my own theories regarding Annie and the GM, of course.
Hmm... That does seem quite fitting. But which characters should be PCs? R2-D2 is an easy one, as Pete already plays him and he'd be returning. I'm not sure that Sally would return to playing C3PO or that she would play any of the characters I can think of. Jim playing Leia would be pretty hilarious, though he could also play Han and be in-character. I feel like Obi-Wan will be an NPC and they'll later find out that he's supposed to be Ben's character from earlier, though Ben could play him again and get transferred to another character after he gets killed. That leaves too many characters not getting played... I mean, Han and Chewwy are both playable in addition to the 5 characters already mentioned, and I think Han definitely has to be a PC.
I feel like Leia would be a fine NPC for Episode IV, as she barely does anything in that movie that requires being a PC. She does spend the first part of the movie captured and the last part hoping everyone else will succeed, which would be pretty boring to RP.
I think Jim would be a good Leia, with her blasting stuff all the time even though she's a princess vibe.
Ben should be Obi-Wan at least for the first film. After that... I don't know.
Pete should remain R2D2.
Sally, I suspect, will be C3PO.
Annie will be Vader? Or Luke?
Not sure who should be Han. Maybe there will be a new player?
I disagree. We've been assuming for a long time that the end of Ep3, where the characters all end up against one another, is mirrored by the players all turning against one another. However, some of the more recent strips have suggested that, in fact, Ben, Annie and Jim are all enjoying the imminent player vs. player conflict.
My guess is that Annie and Ben have a really good time playing out Obi-Wan and Anakin's climactic battle (judging by all the ridiculous stunts that they pull), and that Padme's death will not be something that Jim can blame on Annie - maybe she chokes on poisonous fumes rather than it being Anakin's direct fault.