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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
Ashdate
New playtest document is in! And skills... are out?
Good luck making those easy DC 10 checks now!
Skills are completely gone now?
Huh. I'll have to check that out later tonight.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
Ashdate
New playtest document is in! And skills... are out?
Good luck making those easy DC 10 checks now!
Huh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Seerow
Skills are completely gone now?
Huh. I'll have to check that out later tonight.
For now. They said they were tweaking them still, so they've obviously removed them to tweak while letting us do something else.
Good choice, honestly. Now we can't argue about skills :D
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
SiuiS
Good choice, honestly. Now we can't argue about skills :D
Oh, like that'll stop us. :smallamused:
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
They changed how you improve ability scores. It's not front loaded any more.
They changed the name of the Wizard to Mage.
Barbarians now have a class ability at every single level.
A mechanic that allows for Two Attacks seems to have been added to most classes.
Druids have a class ability at every level save 17. They get to wildshape 5/day at 13th level (instead of 14th).
Fighters have a class ability at every level. The Fighter's attack bonus starts at +2 and ends at +6*. His new Second Wind ability is nice (regain 1/2 your total HP 1/day). Action Surge is a nice ability too (1/day get an extra action). Fighter's Supremacy is cool (at 20th level, if you hit a creature with 20 or fewer HP, you automatically kill them (by by Peasants!)).
EDIT: The Character Sheet is waaaay different. It's weird but actually really cool.
*Barbarian is +1 through +4, Ranger/Paladin/Monk is +1 through +5, Rogue is +1 through +3.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Druids have a class ability at every level save 17. They get to wildshape 5/day at 13th level (instead of 14th).
*sigh*
Apparently it's too hard to understand that "Getting a new spell every level" counts as a class feature, and giving a full caster class features every level is giving them twice as much as anyone else.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
What, so 19 levels of other crap won't let you kill something with less than 20 HP in one hit anyway? :smallconfused:
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
Seerow
*sigh*
Apparently it's too hard to understand that "Getting a new spell every level" counts as a class feature, and giving a full caster class features every level is giving them twice as much as anyone else.
To be fair, level 17 is the level where they get their first 9th level spell.
But yes, the Druid is getting a lot of bang out of each level.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
Raineh Daze
What, so 19 levels of other crap won't let you kill something with less than 20 HP in one hit anyway? :smallconfused:
The ability just lets you kill someone you hit who has 20 or fewer HP automatically, rather than rolling for damage (which will probably kill them anyway (actually... If you have a +5 Long Sword and 20 STR you'd deal, what, 1d8+10 damage? So at max damage is just 18 (assuming you are wielding the sword 1 handed), so it is a cool ability after all)).
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
Felhammer
The ability just lets you kill someone you hit who has 20 or fewer HP automatically, rather than rolling for damage (which will probably kill them anyway).
Yay, full casters have three levels of 9ths, fighters get redundancy. Wooo.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
Raineh Daze
Yay, full casters have three levels of 9ths, fighters get redundancy. Wooo.
Druids and Wizards Mages only have one 9th level spell, even at 20th level.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
Felhammer
The ability just lets you kill someone you hit who has 20 or fewer HP automatically, rather than rolling for damage (which will probably kill them anyway (actually... If you have a +5 Long Sword and 20 STR you'd deal, what, 1d8+10 damage? So at max damage is just 18 (assuming you are wielding the sword 1 handed), so it is a cool ability after all)).
Did they take away deadly strike? The Fighter had 5d8+10 at level 20 in the last packet if I remember right. If they cut all that bonus damage out and just replaced it with "auto kill level 20s" that's really disappointing.
Okay I'm getting off the forums so I can finish this paper then read that myself rather than getting worked up over what anyone else says.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
Seerow
Did they take away deadly strike? The Fighter had 5d8+10 at level 20 in the last packet if I remember right. If they cut all that bonus damage out and just replaced it with "auto kill level 20s" that's really disappointing.
Okay I'm getting off the forums so I can finish this paper then read that myself rather than getting worked up over what anyone else says.
No Deadly Strike any more. Fighters get Three Attacks at 11th level. That means in one round a Fighter could Hit someone four times in one turn (three attacks + 1 action surge (he gets an extra Action Surge at lvl 17 (though both are not usable in the same round)).
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
Felhammer
Druids and Wizards Mages only have one 9th level spell, even at 20th level.
Yes, yes they do. However, they've still had it for three levels before the Fighter gets his nifty 20HP lawnmower toy.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
Drachasor
There's been some research on promotions. It is not at all uncommon to promote people who are good at what they do. If they are then good in the new position, they'll likely get promoted again, and again, and again. This continues until they are no longer good at what they are doing. They are not demoted. In this way, promotions ensure incompetent management.
Companies would actually be more effective, it was shown, by promoting randomly or by promoting both the worst and best workers. Being good at the low level of a job, even being great, in no way ensures you can be good at managing that job. The skills are not closely related.
The Peter Principle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Knaight
Regarding floor rises, randomness, and such. A point that hasn't been made is that performance gets more consistent the better one is - a complete novice demonstrates the ends of their ability far more often than someone who is really good. To simulate that, one could just add multiple skill dice together. Unskilled would be 1d20, then it is just +1d6 per skill point, perhaps to a maximum of +5d6. 1d20+5d6 can theoretically go as low as 6, meaning that all but the very easiest DCs can still be failed, but that this will only rarely happen. At the same time, DC 50 is theoretically possible as well, with this being exceptionally rare. The average is 28, which is pretty solid, but there is still a reasonable chance of failing various tasks. Specifically:
DC 5: 0% Failure Chance
DC 10: 0.3% Failure Chance
DC 15: 2.95% Failure Chance
DC 20: 15.45% Failure Chance
DC 25: 37.64% Failure Chance
DC 30: 62.36% Failure Chance
DC 35: 84.55% Failure Chance
DC 40: 97.05% Failure Chance
This leaves all DCs over 20 beyond the untrained, which seems pretty reasonable. It also leaves obvious room for a skill training feat that doesn't suck: Bumping all of those d6 up to d8 is entirely reasonable. For that matter, if all DCs are kept in the 5-25 range, even the best have a reasonable chance of failing the hardest, without it being guaranteed. This seems pretty reasonable to me. Expanding the math further, this time using a success rate.
That looks pretty reasonable to me, though I'd be tempted to cut off the +5d6 and instead cap things at +4d6, particularly as attribute bonuses do play into this to some extent. Plus, that nicely works out to the lowest level having all but the highest possible and the highest level having all but the lowest possible, with all of them up in the air for everything else. It also has 5 difficulties and 5 skill levels, which is nice.
Perhaps a feat or class ability for particular skills can allow for the +5d6 row.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
Okay so saying they get a class feature every level is a bit misleading.
Barbarian gets an ability improvement on 4 levels, and a bonus attack on one level. So it's only actually 15 features
Cleric gets 5 ability improvements, the second attack, and actual features on 6 levels.
Druid gets 4 ability improvements, and two attacks, but doubles up on one of those. So that's 4 levels. Then 2 levels dedicated to giving more usages of Wild Shape with nothing else. So 6 levels dead, with 14 gaining new abilities. (Not counting spells)
Fighter gets 7 ability improvements, plus two attacks and three attacks. Giving it a whopping 10 dead levels, and 10 levels with actual features.
Wizard gets 4 ability improvements, and 10 levels with actual features. Plus full casting.
Monk gets 4 ability improvements, plus two attacks. This gives it a few dead levels, but probably the most full progression for a non-caster, getting two or more abilities on some levels.
Paladin gets 4 ability score improvements, two attacks. His actual features include half casting and 11 features.
Ranger gets 4 ability score improvements, two attacks. Actual features include half casting and 10 features.
Rogue gets 6 ability score improvements, but it looks like no second attack, making it the only non-wizard who only gets one attack per round. It gets 14 features.
Overall it seems to me the casters have way too many abilities, non-casters too few. And sneaking in ability score bonuses/feats as features is deceptive at best. The Ranger and Paladin remain the best balanced classes in my eyes.
I'd feel a lot better about them putting in the feats as class features if the casters weren't getting so many of them. Though looking at the list of feats, there's not much in there for casters. I DO however find it hilarious that the price of a single spell per day is set at 1 feat. It's like they realize how great spells are, value 1 spell == 1 feat, but then give casters a bunch of stuff on top of their 19 free feat-spells.
At least now the Fighter can go gish by blowing 4 feats on casting up to 4th level spells by level 12? :/
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
Is it so hard for them to bookmark things?
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amidus Drexel
Oh, like that'll stop us. :smallamused:
Probably not, but really, why argue about skills? Arguing druids is the thing now. Arguing Druids is cool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Felhammer
They changed how you improve ability scores. It's not front loaded any more.
They changed the name of the Wizard to Mage.
Barbarians now have a class ability at every single level.
A mechanic that allows for Two Attacks seems to have been added to most classes.
Druids have a class ability at every level save 17. They get to wildshape 5/day at 13th level (instead of 14th).
Fighters have a class ability at every level. The Fighter's attack bonus starts at +2 and ends at +6*. His new Second Wind ability is nice (regain 1/2 your total HP 1/day). Action Surge is a nice ability too (1/day get an extra action). Fighter's Supremacy is cool (at 20th level, if you hit a creature with 20 or fewer HP, you automatically kill them (by by Peasants!)).
EDIT: The Character Sheet is waaaay different. It's weird but actually really cool.
*Barbarian is +1 through +4, Ranger/Paladin/Monk is +1 through +5, Rogue is +1 through +3.
I actually like how this sounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Seerow
*sigh*
Apparently it's too hard to understand that "Getting a new spell every level" counts as a class feature, and giving a full caster class features every level is giving them twice as much as anyone else.
They are trying to move druid into a more gish role. If they can moderate it's base spell allotment this ins't a bad thing. Although I do wish they could keep Animal Shifter and Mystic separate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Turalisj
Is it so hard for them to bookmark things?
yup!
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
So, skills are gone but the DCs are still the same. Why would they even release this?
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
I got the e-mail about the package, thought for a bit on whether to download it, then decided it's probably going to suck anyway so why bother. Then I come to this forum and the first thing I read is that they've removed skills and deadly strike, and it's somehow considered a fitting capstone for fighters to one-shot creatures that are not a threat at that level in the first place? That's laughably bad.
Quote:
have everything run off the same skill mechanic and allow the DM to trivialize/gloss-over skill checks via auto-success when they make sense for the plot.
This simply means that the devteam admits they can't write a functional skill system, so they pass the responsibility on to the DM.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
I just felt like saying that I think the new character sheet is exceedingly pleasing to the eye. Obviously that's not very pertinent to the discussions of skills, character effectiveness, and equivalences of class features, but I think it's worth something. It's even form fillable, which is definitely a step in a more user-friendly direction.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Felhammer
No Deadly Strike any more. Fighters get Three Attacks at 11th level. That means in one round a Fighter could Hit someone four times in one turn (three attacks + 1 action surge (he gets an extra Action Surge at lvl 17 (though both are not usable in the same round)).
Actually it's SIX attacks!
Three Attacks allows you to spend your action to, well, make three attacks while Action Surge give you and extra Action.
Plus, as long as you still have Movement left, you can MOVE BETWEEN TARGETS!
Yes Setsuna, you are a Gundam now!
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amazo
I just felt like saying that I think the new character sheet is exceedingly pleasing to the eye. Obviously that's not very pertinent to the discussions of skills, character effectiveness, and equivalences of class features, but I think it's worth something. It's even form fillable, which is definitely a step in a more user-friendly direction.
At this point, the sheet is the ONLY thing I like about next.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
Actually, as I recall, action surge was the fighter's signature ability four or five iterations of the playtest ago. It was taken out without explanation, and now it's back without explanation. Wheeee.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
So they've realized that dead levels are bad, and have filled them in, which is great and makes me very happy. Except some of the class features aren't, or suck. And they also filled in the superficially dead levels for the classes that get spells, which are arguably better than class features, meaning that they're now even more betterly good at everything than they previously were.
One step forwards, two steps back.
Maybe CoDzilla is a characteristic of previous editions that they desperately want to keep.
I mean, how hard would it be to give fighters save-or-die per-days? Or rogues save-or-sucks? It would be kind of cool for a level 20 Paladin to have Smite Evil as a save-or-die for anything evil.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
Whiteagle
Actually it's SIX attacks!
Three Attacks allows you to spend your action to, well, make three attacks while Action Surge give you and extra Action.
Plus, as long as you still have Movement left, you can MOVE BETWEEN TARGETS!
Yes Setsuna, you are a Gundam now!
The Fighter has become SHIVA! :smallbiggrin:
Not only is the Fighter attacking with a higher modifier than any other class, he's also going to be throwing around more attacks than anyone else (save maybe the Monk). This really makes the Fighter feel special and unique, which is something the class *desperately* needed.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
BayardSPSR
So they've realized that dead levels are bad, and have filled them in, which is great and makes me very happy. Except some of the class features aren't, or suck. And they also filled in the superficially dead levels for the classes that get spells, which are arguably better than class features, meaning that they're now even more betterly good at everything than they previously were.
One step forwards, two steps back.
Maybe CoDzilla is a characteristic of previous editions that they desperately want to keep.
I mean, how hard would it be to give fighters save-or-die per-days? Or rogues save-or-sucks? It would be kind of cool for a level 20 Paladin to have Smite Evil as a save-or-die for anything evil.
Spellcasters have fewer spells per day than in previous editions. Yes their spells are powerful and they get cool class features too but on the whole the Fighter and the Rogue are much better off in this packet than they were in 3.5.
Look at the Fighter, at level 11, he's swinging three times a turn with his full BAB (which is higher than everyone else's). Once per day, he can attack 6 times in a single turn. That's the Fighter's (balanced) equivalent of save-or-die spell.
I'm curious to hear which class abilities you think suck?
Even the Fighter's 20th level ability is, well not amazing, still relevant (as a Sword and Board Fighter with a +5 Long Sword and a +5 STR mod would only deal an average of 15 damage). It's not as flashy as say the Rogue's Ace but it is still fairly useful and flavorfully quite cool.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
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Originally Posted by
Felhammer
Look at the Fighter, at level 11, he's swinging three times a turn with his full BAB (which is higher than everyone else's).
I don't think that it's impressive that the fighter's BAB at level 11 is one or two points ahead of his teammates'.
Furthermore, I don't think that 20-hp creatures are at all a threat at level 20, which makes their capstone ability useless. Besides, a spell like Fireball is simply better at wiping out a horde of low-hp creatures.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
Aw, they removed the Cleric's Death Domain. Not too happy, I liked the option to represent the gods of passing on.
Humans are still the featureless race, having +1 to all your Ability Scores but for those four extra +1s you give up any and all extra abilities like Elvish resistances and whatnot. Still feel as though humans are mechanically very weak in Next.
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
Oh man, this is hilarious. They sneaked the old Ranger combat styles in. They're not an actual class feature, but the path of the dragon slayer gives you ranged abilities and the path of the horde breaker gives you bonuses to two-weapon fighting. Why are they doing this?
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Re: D&D 5th Edition XII: Peasant Militias Can Defeat Smartphones?
Even the Paladin's ability at level 20 is cooler and more effective. 10 radiant damage to every enemy within 25ft of you? Okay, so being forced to have a mount is lame because by level 20, your mount's HP is going to be so low that it could die from being coughed on.
And then there's the Monk. Unless I'm missing something, with the way Quivering Palm is written, you can hit your opponent at the start of combat with it and continue to force him to make saves every round until he fails three in a row. Not as sure fire as a save or die spell, but it kicks the Fighter's level 20 ability in the face and steal's it's lunch money.