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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eschmenk
Keep in mind that Parson is looking for a truce, not an alliance. Especially if Caesar winds up as ruler, I wouldn't expect Transylvito to stop being Mafia. I can't imagine that Parson would want to help beat up Carpool and other places for protection money (TV's normal source of revenue). At the same time, I can't imagine that Caesar would want to go after Charlie, like Parson would want. TV's thing is bullying weak targets, not taking on strong ones. Given that they wouldn't have any common goals, I doubt that an alliance would work very well. A truce that would prevent them from seizing the other party's cities should be beneficial, though.
You are missing one big thing they have in common. Faq
Terms of Alliance: "Help us crush Faq" would go over pretty well for Ceaser.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eschmenk
Keep in mind that Parson is looking for a truce, not an alliance.
Except Jack said, we are willing to discuss alliance. To me it seems that they are going for mutually beneficial alliance, not a truce like with Charlie.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anteros
There is nothing in Parson's history to suggest he would balk at such a thing. If anything he'd be amused at the opportunity to help a Gangster operation work.
I disagree. And Charlie even thought that Parson had a hero complex, so he couldn't even imagine Parson doing something like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silva Stormrage
You are missing one big thing they have in common. Faq
Terms of Alliance: "Help us crush Faq" would go over pretty well for Ceaser.
Faq is off the table for as long as the truce with Charlie lasts.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eschmenk
I disagree. And Charlie even thought that Parson had a hero complex, so he couldn't even imagine Parson doing something like that.
Faq is off the table for as long as the truce with Charlie lasts.
Parson is chief warlord of a side that largely operates by murdering people, and performing necromancy on their corpses to fuel their war effort. His first thought on learning that his side was evil? "Oh good, I always wanted to be a bad guy!" He is personally responsible for the deaths of every single inhabitant of at least 2 cities full of people as well as invading the only peaceful nation in existence. He is currently involved in negotiation talks with the explicit purpose of "every friend we make now, is someone we can stab in the back later".
But sure. I'm sure getting an enemy side to pay his side money is where he draws the line. Despite just doing basically that exact thing to Charlie. That makes perfect sense. :smallsigh:
Parson might have a bit of a hero complex when it comes to the units he's responsible for, but he's extremely ruthless when it comes to other sides or gaining a tactical advantage. It would be completely out of character for him to have a problem with shaking down an enemy side.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anteros
Parson is chief warlord of a side that largely operates by murdering people, and performing necromancy on their corpses to fuel their war effort. His first thought on learning that his side was evil? "Oh good, I always wanted to be a bad guy!" He is personally responsible for the deaths of every single inhabitant of at least 2 cities full of people as well as invading the only peaceful nation in existence. He is currently involved in negotiation talks with the explicit purpose of "every friend we make now, is someone we can stab in the back later".
First, after his " I like playing villains ", he also had, " what have I have done " moment. Sure, he is ruthless if his allies life is on a line, but he is willing to make more allies.
Also you guys are getting too hung up on "More allies to backstab later". That was a way too sell it to Tool, who claimed making allies isn't his style. Not to mention Parson expects treachery from some allies (e.g. Haggar).
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
-D-
First, after his " I like playing villains ", he also had, " what have I have done " moment. Sure, he is ruthless if his allies life is on a line, but he is willing to make more allies.
Also you guys are getting too hung up on "More allies to backstab later". That was a way too sell it to Tool, who claimed making allies isn't his style. Not to mention Parson expects treachery from some allies (e.g. Haggar).
Well, even in Parson's inner monologue there he's concerned with making allies in order to seem less intimidating and better enable him to take over everything long term. He's interested in conquering Erfworld, not making friends.
That's not to say he won't make friends or lasting allies in the future. I fully expect the story to develop that way, but it's not his current intent.
I'm also not very impressed with his "what have I done" moment considering he hasn't modified his behavior at all since then. He might have had some regrets about all the blood on his hands, but he hasn't actually been any less ruthless.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anteros
Well, even in Parson's inner monologue there he's concerned with making allies in order to seem less intimidating and better enable him to take over everything long term. He's interested in conquering Erfworld, not making friends.
I'm also not very impressed with his "what have I done" moment considering he hasn't modified his behavior at all since then. He might have had some regrets about all the blood on his hands, but he hasn't actually been any less ruthless.
Did he, he was curious about winning Erfworld. Nothing says you have to win alone.
He stopped killing his own guys. That's a start :P
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Some wargames let you win a "Diplomatic" victory! Erfworld might allow that too, just no one's ever won before~
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
-D-
Did he, he was curious about winning Erfworld. Nothing says you have to win alone.
He stopped killing his own guys. That's a start :P
His plan to take Spacerock involved murdering his own troops and harvesting them for rations. :smallwink:
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
Yuki Akuma
Some wargames let you win a "Diplomatic" victory! Erfworld might allow that too, just no one's ever won before~
Winning might not be the point:
Quote:
Congratulations, you won:
!/ Let me play a few more rounds (Civ (only?)).
2/ Exit to main menu.
3/ Tell me about the next version.
I think Parson should be aiming for a state that lets the "game" continue indefinitely.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Rob is the master at writing 1000 words and having nothing happen.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
Anteros
Rob is the master at writing 1000 words and having nothing happen.
I dunno. Creepy Dollamancer is a bit more fleshed out now and we got a nonthinkamancer's view of the Grandio-Strings. Someone on the Erfforums mentioned that this could be what gets Maggie to become a Master class rather than Adept.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
Anteros
Rob is the master at writing 1000 words and having nothing happen.
He should run for president then!
But yeah, slow update is slow. Rob does the tease and switch too much, I fully expect one comic about Caesar and Vanna and then bam, tour of Sizemore's latrine duty. Or Zhopa's field view.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
Anteros
His plan to take Spacerock involved murdering his own troops and harvesting them for rations. :smallwink:
Well one can't make a victory omelette without breaking a few mount eggs... or something.
Well now this new page is gonna make me think a lot next time I load up my 4X games...
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Spoiler: Spoiler
Show
OK, so that is a doll resembling Bunny in that chest? I assume that it is a work in progress? All the parts are there, but The Doller Bill still needs to get the thinkermancy magic sorted out? I like this guy, he's a whole new level of creepy.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
Miklus
Spoiler: Spoiler
Show
OK, so that is a doll resembling Bunny in that chest? I assume that it is a work in progress? All the parts are there, but The Doller Bill still needs to get the thinkermancy magic sorted out? I like this guy, he's a whole new level of creepy.
Well, as long as it doesn't have anything to do with what was in the pit. That would be too creepy.
I was already been wondering if some sort of problem would develop between Bunny and Bill. The Bunny doll would seem to make that more likely. That could be the spark that results in something happening. Given Caesar's temper, could you imagine what would happen if Caesar finds out about it? :smalleek:
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
eschmenk
Given Caesar's temper, could you imagine what would happen if Caesar finds out about it? :smalleek:
There would be... Bills to pay? :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
DigoDragon
There would be... Bills to pay? :smallbiggrin:
I would have gone with 'The Bill will be collected' myself.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
DigoDragon
There would be... Bills to pay? :smallbiggrin:
I won't lira. I yen for Caesar to pound some cents into Bill.
OK, OK, I'll stop. I don't want people get annoyed and start treating us like a couple of Shmuckers.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
eschmenk
I was already been wondering if some sort of problem would develop between Bunny and Bill.
I'd say that problem has not been developing, it has been there
since a long time ago "When he'd been trusted. When he'd trusted her.".
So I guess some more details about Ponzi/Bunny/Don/Bill will be revealed soon,
and maybe the reason for Bunny being declared "Baddie".
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eschmenk
I won't lira. I yen for Caesar to pound some cents into Bill.
OK, OK, I'll stop. I don't want people get annoyed and start treating us like a couple of Shmuckers.
I'll be franc, I thought we were seeing Yuan a roll there. Mark them down as being some of the best ones eurote to my knowledge.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
The Glyphstone
I would have gone with 'The Bill will be collected' myself.
Ooh, that one is good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eschmenk
I won't lira. I yen for Caesar to pound some cents into Bill.
OK, OK, I'll stop. I don't want people get annoyed and start treating us like a couple of Shmuckers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SZbNAhL
I'll be franc, I thought we were seeing Yuan a roll there. Mark them down as being some of the best ones eurote to my knowledge.
Well this day has been made a lot brighter for me.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DigoDragon
Well this day has been made a lot brighter for me.
I'm glad to hear it. :smallbiggrin: I wasn't earning any peso it was hard to keep motivated. I did have a couple of new thoughts: Even if Caesar stamps Bill so hard he leaves marks, will there be any real change? And if Bill gives Bunny flowers as an apology, if she doesn't understand what's going on, would she just say, "What's doubloons?
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
eschmenk
I'm glad to hear it. :smallbiggrin: I wasn't earning any peso it was hard to keep motivated. I did have a couple of new thoughts: Even if Caesar stamps Bill so hard he leaves marks, will there be any real change? And if Bill gives Bunny flowers as an apology, if she doesn't understand what's going on, would she just say, "What's doubloons?
It's posts like this that make me wonder what I'm doing on this forum, let alone this thread.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
Razade
It's posts like this that make me wonder what I'm doing on this forum, let alone this thread.
Oh, come on, give him a little credit. Everyone gets to cash in a few puns now and then.
Anyway, regarding the update: I think it's necessary to have an update like this specifically devoted to both building up the Dollamancer as a character (and explain his motivations) while giving Maggie some time to understand his spell. Obviously she's going to turn it against him eventually, but that has to be built up to.
This also gives us hints about the underlying nature of threads and dollamancy in general, which might be important later.
Also, something unrelated that occurred to me: It's interesting that the trial in the magic kingdom has focused on the impossibility of someone repatriating themselves without outside help at the exact moment Parson, Maggie, and Jack (three of the smartest people and most resourceful people on their side) are held prisoner. It occurs to me that if they could repatriate themselves somehow, that would impact Wanda's trial by showing that Parson didn't necessarily break the truce.
(Of course, making that the focus also answers the audience complaints about "how can the MK keep getting it wrong?", since, well... Parson did break MK neutrality first by arranging an arms dump there, which was using Charlie's portal for military purposes. If he hadn't been doing that, nobody in the MK would have died. Obviously Charlie should still bear most of the blame, but the argument that Parson started it has legs, especially when -- even from the perspective of someone who saw absolutely everything from the MK end -- it looks like Parson charged into Charlie's portal. GK can't explain that Parson switched sides or why without explaining the ceasefire, which would cost them a city.)
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eschmenk
Faq is off the table for as long as the truce with Charlie lasts.
Not necessarily; Gobwin Knob can't directly attack Faq, but Parson might be able to fund his war effort.
And if not, they always have Carpool. :smallamused:
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
I don't know if Caesar even really wants to conquer FAQ. He really just wants to stop sinking their limited resources into what he sees as a bad investment. He doesn't hate FAQ, he just doesn't want to cripple his side for them.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Sweet, a text update, I missed those.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
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Originally Posted by
Aquillion
Oh, come on, give him a little credit. Everyone gets to cash in a few puns now and then.
I find it shilling just how dedicated some of you are to this craft of punnery. It made my morning. ^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aquillion
Parson did break MK neutrality first by arranging an arms dump there, which was using Charlie's portal for military purposes.
To be fair to Parson, the MK's great minds allowed him not only to keep a small army there, but Isaac allowed Parson to experiment with tiny spy units going into portals (which came back with a grenade), so MK cannot be without some blame of the resulting incident-- they allowed it to build to that (and I think that was a good choice really).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anteros
I don't know if Caesar even really wants to conquer FAQ. He really just wants to stop sinking their limited resources into what he sees as a bad investment. He doesn't hate FAQ, he just doesn't want to cripple his side for them.
This is my interpretation as well. Like in CIV-type games, if you're loosing money, you gotta restructure the side by abandoning cities and projects that are sinking your finances.
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Re: Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anteros
I don't know if Caesar even really wants to conquer FAQ. He really just wants to stop sinking their limited resources into what he sees as a bad investment. He doesn't hate FAQ, he just doesn't want to cripple his side for them.
IDK if Caesar is that rational about Jillian. He seemed to dislike her instantly, although a lot of that might have just been posing. I could easily imagine him blaming her for the troubles that developed between him and Don and hating her for that. He ordered Vinny to create a plan to conquer Faq, which could have been just a test of Vinny's loyalties or something like that, but it could be that Caesar really wanted to do it. After all, if TV loots Faq's assets and razes the cities, TV would get some of the revenue back.
I doubt that GK could pay for the attack without making TV an agent, which may still violate the agreement with Charlie. (I don't care to double-check.) I don't know why GK would want to do it anyway. Stanley went after Jillian because she was wrecking GK's cities, but she stopped doing that, and Stanley was OK with the truce terms. Granted, Stanley and Parson would probably be much better off long term if Caesar snuffed Jillian when Wanda wasn't around to decrypt her, but that's just not going to happen.