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Originally Posted by
Asta Kask
HURM.
The "die cis scum" debacle reminds me about a Hulk story I once read. It was from the "The Intelligent Hulk" period when The Hulk had the personality of Robert Bruce Banner, and thus had both the powers of Hulk and the intellect of Bruce Banner. The Hulk, for some reason I don't remember, was brought to or traveled to another planet, in which green-skinned people were suppressed by orange-skinned people. (I'm not sure about the latter.) The green-skinned folks thought Banner/Hulk to be their savior foretold in their scriptures. Long story short, Hulk helped the green people in their struggle, and left them, thinking that everybody would know be happy and live in peace on that planet.
However, while piloting his spaceship, The Hulk took a look at the telescope directed at the planet he was leaving.
He now saw the green people treating the orange people just the same way the orange had treated the green: by beating them, insulting them, enslaving them. :smallfrown:
OF COURSE, this won't change the (in this particular topic) self-righteous minds of Natalie Reed and WilloNyx. Because no way a persecuted group would take revenge on the group which persecuted them, because that has never happened in the history of mankind. :smallsigh:
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Originally Posted by
golentan
I don't think that's necessarily fair. I'd embrace as an ally anyone who wasn't homophobic and factored in lgbt welfare in their voting habits. Not everyone has to be active to be an ally, it's the quiet support, acceptance, and integration that I really see as the goal.
Also, calling out "Die Cis Scum" is something I see as almost a duty. I don't know how it started, but every time I've seen it brought up it's confrontational to the point of driving away potential supporters and completely unhelpful to the dialogue. So :smallyuk:.
Agreed.
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Originally Posted by
Qaera
The people that it's targeted for won't understand, and the cis allies who do understand it are uncomfortable with it and don't want to be associated with supposedly violent trans*. So it's really dumb. #transagainstdiecisscum
~ ♅
Exactly!
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Originally Posted by
Coidzor
Right, because calling someone on saying something for it being stupid and pigheaded is "distracting" but the stupid and pigheaded and ultimately pointlessly provocative statement, that's meaningful dialogue.
What a load of hooey. Oh, you're allowed to be uncomfortable, but don't you dare open your mouth or you're a horrible person who is betraying trans* individuals and the movement in general. :smallyuk:
I share your sentiment.
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Originally Posted by
Asta Kask
You also have to remember that, for instance, trans people are the only ones who know what it is to be trans. They have relevant knowledge that cis people don't. They are really the only ones who know enough to set goals. Now, once the goals are set, that's another matter.
I don't know what it means to be trans, but I love some persons who happen to be trans (meaning I have my personal, and if you so say so, selfish reasons to support trans people), and I know what it means to have been bullied and having faced bigotry.
I may be "white"/European, but my hair is dark brown and curly, my eyes are brown, and I tan easily.
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Originally Posted by
Reluctance
I'm sure that when someone is killed for being gay/black/disabled/homeless/etc. in the wrong place, they'll take comfort in knowing that it probably had absolutely nothing to do with their gender identity.
Heh.
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To turn back to the friendship metaphor, it cuts both ways. Decide that you can afford to alienate allies, don't be upset if people decide that you're not worth the bother. Insist that other people can't begin to know what you're going through, prepare to have them stop engaging in dialogue. (We have people out there who insist that the most oppressed people are those who can afford to overeat, ferchrissakes. You have to factor in that people are most sensitive to things that affect them. Listening does not mean listening uncritically.) Insist that your pet cause deserves everyone's understanding and attention, while not distracting yourself with other people's causes, means that the movement of you will quickly end up with the support of you.
There's a reason I consider the whole ally mentality toxic. "Friends" who have to continually guilt-trip you aren't really your friends. I thought we all learned this in after-school specials.
Being allies isn't about being friends. Being allies is about teaming up for mutual causes, against mutual enemies. While I believe in altruism, sense of duty, justice, etc, I also believe that one of my main reasons to be an ally to trans people is that those who harm trans people will harm me when they're "finished" with trans people.
This goes both ways. Those who are against LGBTA+, people of colour, people with disabilities, the elderly, women, men, etc, will find new people to hunt down when they're finished with one. In the end, no one will live, if we let hate live on.
I wish the "die cis scum" crowd got this.
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Originally Posted by
Lyesmith
It's no justification for treating people who want to help you like dirt. The writer wants leniency for when she messes up in frustration, but seems to not want to grant others the same clemency. People are but flesh and blood, and they mess up. Just because someone drops the ball or isn't aware of your own personal super special snowflake hangup is no reason to throw toys out of the pram. And objecting to someone saying "Die cis scum" is hardly irrational or 'backstabbing'. I imagine "Die trans scum" wouldn't exactly go down like hugs and puppies.
Thank you.
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Originally Posted by
Musashi
Glad it interested you!
The woman who threatened to beat her husband severely and daily if she was forced to marry shocks and saddens me. I have no doubt she would do exactly what she said, even if her husband was as forced into the union as she was and respected her. I'm not blaming her for thinking that, but it still wouldn't justify the potential violence, and her threat sounds very credible. I really hope she will be free to choose her husband or stay celibate, and gain some peace of mind.
Indeed. :smallfrown:
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I didn't want to talk about "die cis scum" again, but I feel forced to see a parallel here... no, there is no institutionalized physical bullying of men, but men could very well suffer from misdirected hate and resent.
Wait. :smallconfused:
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no, there is no institutionalized physical bullying of men
Ever watched
Full Metal Jacket?
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Originally Posted by
Astrella
Well; it's iffy, because there is always a danger that the supporters do "take over" the movement, and this can be dangerous, no matter how benign their intentions. The main thing to watch out for is that the voice of the minority themselves can never be silenced cause of it.
I have never heard or read about it ever happening. :smallconfused:
(Feel free to contact me at MSN or the Facebook chat.)
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Look at the case of the German trans girl Alex for example; I'm sure all the people involved have her well-being in mind, but she's not even given a voice. In the end, isn't the best way to know what people feel and want to ask them?
While it certainly doesn't make it *right*, I think it has more to do with her being a child than her being trans. :smallfrown: