Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

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Originally Posted by unbeliever536

In the first round, the FOC is as follows (as the tournament is pretty informal, they won't mind if I go slightly over the point cap until the last round):
1 HQ
2-4 Troops
0-1 Fast Attack, Heavy Support, Elites
Allied Detatchment (I am currently lobbying that the allied FOC be limitted at first, and it probably will be, but it technically isn't yet...)
Fortification

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HQ
Darkstrider (100 pts)

Troops

Fire Warrior Team (108 pts):
Fire Warrior x12, Pulse Rifles

Fire Warrior Team (108 pts):
Fire Warrior x12, Pulse Rifles

Kroot Carnivore Squad (91 pts):
Kroot x13 with sniper rounds

Elites

XV104 Riptide (260 pts):
-Riptide Shas'vre with ion accelerator, twin-linked fusion blaster, early warning override, velocity tracker
-Shielded Missiel Drone x2

Fast Attack

Pathfinder Team (140 pts):
-Pathfinder with ion rifle x3
-Pathfinder x7

Heavy Support

Hammerhead Gunship (191 pts):
Hammerhead gunship with Longstrike, submunitions, smart missile system, disruption pod, blacksun filter

Total: 998 points

As this is a fairly low-op environment and Darkstrider appeals to me, I'd rather get help making him work than get help replacing him. Otherwise, proxies are an option (tournament for new people and all), so I probably can run almost anything, though I would prefer not to have to proxy anything to dissimilar to a tiny-huge D&D figure, or easily constructed out of cardboard (since that's what I have available to proxy with).

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That's an interesting FOC- only allowing one of any given thing besides troops. I guess the real question is where you're planning to put Darkstrider- with the pathfinders or the fire warriors. The pathfinders are the tempting option, since he can buff their special weapons to sudden-death levels, but the fire warriors are more durable and more likely to be on the front lines and thus benefit from his fighting retreat special rule. I'd consider shaving a few of the pathfinders- each pathfinder is worth half a markerlight on average, so with 7 you're looking at 3.5 markerlights on any given turn. Most of your units have BS 3, so only the first two really count, unless you're planning on Ignoring Cover a lot. If you shaved a couple pathfinders, you could add gun drones to your fire warrior squads, which are much better than they look.

(Gun Drones are twin-linked, which means their BS2 is actually more accurate than a fire warrior, and they have carbines, which adds pinning to the squad. Pinning doesn't often work, but when it does, it's essentially a free turn, so it's definitely nice to have)

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Originally Posted by unbeliever536

Jump troops have been houseruled to be able to assault hovering fliers.

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But... everything can usually assault hovering fliers...

I am suppressing the urge to throw up after seeing that force org chart. It's like they WANT Eldar to dominate. Seriously. The force org chart is what it is for a reason. Not giving people their full three slots for non troops is gimping any army that relies on non-troop units (i.e. pretty much everything not Guard or Eldar). Sure, it means only one Heldrake or Riptide (Unless, you know, Farsight :smallyuk:)... But it also means only one of the units most people use to stop those units. And redundancy is the name of the game.

I'd be tempted to spam mehrens or even FWs in that. Or, I'd probably take nine suits (1 commander, 2 bodyguard, 3 crisis, 3 broadside) and a couple of fire units.

Or just drop a 'sight bomb and be done with it.

Or, because you can have an exactly-250-points model, I might consider using the FoR and krakstorms and watching my enemy fail to get through AV14 buildings while I lascannon/krakstorm/my own weapons them to death.

On a related note, taking a FoR in 500 point games can produce funny results. :P

So, it turns out that doing text on oath paper and purity seals/impurity seals is way easier with a 0.05 pen than with a brush. Word bearers rejoice!

I would say put darkstrider with one of the firewarrior squads, and drop the riptide's drones in favor of gun drones with the darkstrider squad and more kroot.

I am not sure about the sniper rifles on the kroot, they seem nice and all, but in my experience the fact that they are only 24 inch range and are heavy weapons to use the sniper rounds means that it is really hard to make use of the sniper rounds. I find the kroot much more effective outflanking and using their normal guns--I use a squad of 16 and they can decimate all sorts of enemies when they pop out with rapid fire.

So, it's the last weekend before Christmas, and the last oppurtunity for everyone to have a few games before a new Codex drop. So, it must be tournament time!

What I brought;

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Chapter Master - 230 Points
Artificer Armour, Thunder Hammer, Shield Eternal

Honour Guard (x8) - 275 Points
x3 Relic Blades, x4 Power Axes
Chapter Champion; Power Maul
+ Drop Pod

Tactical Squad (x10); Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun + Drop Pod - 205 Points
Tactical Squad (x10); Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun + Drop Pod - 205 Points
Scout Squad (x10); Sniper Rifles - 120 Points

Stormtalon; Skyhammer Missile Launcher - 125 Points

Devastator Squad (x10); x4 Missile Launchers w/ Flakk Missiles - 240 Points
Thunderfire Cannon - 100 Points

Fortress of Redemption; Krakstorm Missiles - 250 Points

Total: 1750 Points

Battle Point tournament, each battle is worth 20 Points.
Primary Objective; 8 Points
Kill Points; 8 Points
Slay the Warlord; 2 Points
Linebreaker; 1 Point
First Blood; 1 Point

Round 1 - Big Guns vs. Screamer Star
I roll for first turn, but I let him have it. Going second is for winners. Normal nonsense happens, he takes forever rolling up his Powers and Gifts while I stare at my watch. He first turn, the usual crap happens, the Screamer Star has a 2++ re-rollable.
My first turn goes exactly as planned, because the model with the Grimoire now has a different save than the rest of the unit, I plant a Krakstorm Barrage onto the model with the book. I roll a 'Hit', it's a Barrage weapon so all Wounds come from the hole, since he has a different save, the closest model must make as many saving throws as he can until he dies. Roll nine Look Out Sirs, roll two saves. Oops, there's a 2. Your Megatron is dead, wish the StarScreamers luck without him. I don't bother shooting after that, it still has a 2++/rr for one turn.
His second turn, he uses Scrier's Gaze to delay his Flying Monstrous Creatures, because it's Big Guns and I get points if I kill his MCs.

Anyway, after that first hit, the game was pretty much done.

18-1. I didn't get to kill Fateweaver, he got Linebreaker after a very bad Scatter in his turn 'accidentally' had his Daemonettes in my DZ and I chose to use my Icarus on Fateweaver...Which he dodged. Game ended on turn 3, because that's what happens when you've got ~13 Psychic Powers to roll and Gifts.

Round 2 - Crusade vs. Riptides.
So this was fun. In my first turn, my Honour Guard drop down, and he shoots three Intercepting Riptides at them. Unfortunately for him, only one of his Riptides has an Ion Accelerator and I'll gladly drop two Honour Guard. His Turn 1, he forgot that you can't shoot the same weapon you used during Interceptor (which a lot of people forget), two of his Riptides settled in the middle of the table and the third promptly Charged one of my Honour Guard. Chapter Master with Eternal Warrior is not amused, as well as a couple of hits from the Axes, and down goes a Riptide, with Vorn Hagen taking a S10 hit in the face. Because he's the hero I need right now.

Missiles don't do much against Riptides, and I was relying on Plasma and Sniper weapons to drop two Riptides (that didn't work too well), while my Honour Guard was tarpitted by wave after wave of Kroot. On the plus side, any unit hitting my Honour Guard was a Troops unit not on an objective, so I was fine with that.
We ended up drawing on Kill Points because Drop Pods are Drop Pods and my Stormtalon was Intercepted out of the sky. Major damage was done when the Broadsides got lucky and blew up the bunker annex with the Icarus, killing 9 Scouts, and the lone Scout ran 11", down the ladder, out the door, and off the board. Don't worry, there's three more AV14 buildings where that came from.

12-8. My Chapter Master not only lived, but he got Linebreaker, and was a Scoring unit because the Personal Table is OP.

Round 3 Scouring vs. Riptides (only two)
Only two Riptides this time, the other slot being a Crisis Fusion Team "FU-SION-HA!" and the rest of the points being invested in Broadsides.
"Pathfinders are Fast Attack, right?"
"Yeah, why?"
"I shoot them."
This mission sucks. If I wasn't playing Space Marines with amazing Drop Pods, I don't know how I was supposed to get the '4' objective that he started with in his own deployment zone. Anyway, my list isn't great with dealing with Riptides as I learned in the last game, but, still, there was really only one unit in his army that could even touch my Fortress and in the first turns I had Drop Pods blocking his LoS.

12-8. Again. Random objectives are worth random points. :smallsigh:

Round 4 Relic vs. Tyranids.
Basically, he put a 6" circle of Termagants onto the Relic and ran away with it. I got KPs, because Tyranids. And I managed to kill a Hive Tyrant which turned out to be his Warlord. Then he killed my Warlord because Tervigons don't care about being hit by Thunder Hammers and IWND is amazing. I had First Blood though.

11-10.

Day 1 wrap-up; Where's all the Eldar? I won all my games so I should have played somebody. Oh, right. Battle Points. I got 12s for two of my four games so I'm probably not even close. 53/80...So, I'm in the Top 50%, surely.
Brackets were released and I was coming in 7th...Which was enough to get me into Top 8.

Day 2
Quarter Final; Purge vs. Eldar
Ignore the Jet Council. Shoot everything else that I actually do get KPs for. WINNAR!

18-2...Wait...Did I just nearly get full points on the first game of Day 2...Oh shi-

Semi-Final; Big Guns vs. Eldar
Jet Council, but wasn't as big as the previous one, settling for seven and dual Farseers, instead of a full ten. The spare points went into dual Wraithknights, because why not? Two of the Warlocks managed to roll Renewer while none rolled Protect. He shrugged his shoulders, put those two Warlocks into his Troops units and just healed up his Wraithknights. Jet Councils can not die, sure, but they're not the objective. The objective is for you to not kill my Heavies.
[I got home this evening, and he had done it wrong (on purpose?), Warlocks split off before Deployment, sure, but they also split off before Psychic Powers are rolled...Which means you shouldn't have that kind of information when you split your council. :smallmad:]

4-16. I got all the bonus objectives. That counts, right...? ...My Mum says I'm cool... This is what I get for having a good first round. :smallfrown:

Final Emperor's Will vs. Eldar.
A good simple game to finish out the weekend...vs. AxeGuard Eldar. Double Spiritseers, 30 Wraithguard with Shields, 10 with Guns, two Wraithlords and an Aegis. I imagine that this list simply won games by not letting the opponent win. Also was a girl playing Eldar...In the Top 8...Because Eldar is for girls, so sayeth GW marketing.

11-10

The Top 8 were as follows;
Eldar
Daemons
Space Marines ("Boo! He used a Fortress of Redemption! Boo!")
Eldar
Tau
Eldar
Eldar
Daemons

...Yeah. Seriously. Somebody please tell me that the meta ain't broke with a straight face. I dare you. The only reason that this happened is because the meta can't touch AV14 and I abused the Barrage rule like all get-out. 8, S8 Wounds on that guy.
Nothing says 'Precision Shots' like 'Barrage'.
...There's a joke, there. Damned if I can think of something funny, though.

Some steps were taken, like;

All Battle Brothers are Allies of Convenience instead. Which cut down on 'gimmicks' which is all Allies is ever used for. Some people complained. But, yeah. It made sense when you sat down and thought about it.

The 0-2 Fliers restriction was laughed at. Nobody except Chaos Marines needs Fliers to run an effective build, and Cron-Air players can just...Suck it. Are Fliers still even around? Take Tau in the morning and call your doctor if Fliers persists.

No Skyshields. Fine. I don't think our TO realised that a Fortress is basically four Land Raiders for 250 Points.

Anyway. Really good weekend. I was pleased to see that not all Eldar players are running Jet Councils.

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So, it's the last weekend before Christmas, and the last oppurtunity for everyone to have a few games before a new Codex drop. So, it must be tournament time!

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Good and witty reading once more, i enjoyed hearing about your tournament adventures.

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Final Emperor's Will vs. Eldar.
A good simple game to finish out the weekend...vs. AxeGuard Eldar. Double Spiritseers, 30 Wraithguard with Shields, 10 with Guns, two Wraithlords and an Aegis. I imagine that this list simply won games by not letting the opponent win. Also was a girl playing Eldar...In the Top 8...Because Eldar is for girls, so sayeth GW marketing.

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Also, was rather hilarious to hear about the axeguard list, how was it to play against?
Because to be honest, not letting your opponts win sounds like a brilliant strategy :smalltongue:

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Originally Posted by lord_khaine

Also, was rather hilarious to hear about the axeguard list, how was it to play against?

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Both her 'Seers rolled on the Battle table exactly once, just to grab Conceal and sit behind an Aegis. Then rolled on Telepathy. 'Flier Defense' consisted of Puppet Mastering my Devastators and shooting my Stormtalon which was funny. And Bright Lances on the Wraithlords could actually damage my Fortress. My Honour Guard got demolished by AxeGuard, because they have T6 and an Invulnerable save while Honour Guard are T4 and take it in the neck.

Point is, entire army has Cover Saves or Invulnerables. It's gimmicky (but all the best builds are), but not brokenly so. You can deal with it if you just grind it down. Unlike a Screamer or Jet Council where you need to build specifically to deal with it (How do I get S8+ Barrage?), or just get lucky.

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Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Nothing says 'Precision Shots' like 'Barrage'.

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Next thread title?

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Originally Posted by thedavo

Next thread title?

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I'd vote for it. :smallbiggrin:

I find it strange that allies don't take up a force organization slot(s). Anyone know why they didn't go for that?

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Originally Posted by Tehnar

I find it strange that allies don't take up a force organization slot(s). Anyone know why they didn't go for that?

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Because Allies get their own FO Slots? :smallconfused:

What I mean is why didn't they make it so allies use your primary detachment force organization slots?

For example if you take allies, you could have only 1 HQ choice from your primary detachment (as the other is used by the compulsory allied HQ).

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Originally Posted by Tehnar

What I mean is why didn't they make it so allies use your primary detachment force organization slots?

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Why didn't the designers do a lot of things?

Because they want to encourage allies, not force you to choose.

It's more "cinematic" to have more things on the table at once :smallyuk:

(Although honestly, back when 6th edition came out I thought it worked like that and loved the idea... I was a bit dismayed to find that it worked differently...)

Speaking of allies machinations, how does this list look to you guys? I'm working with no Stronghold Assault or Escalation, but Forgeworld 40K approved stuff is fine. I'm thinking of using Sevrin Loth for guaranteed Gate of Infinity and teleporting Farsight around the board for giggles. If I don't need as much early firepower, I can give Loth Iron Arm + Warp Speed and dump him in one of the drop pods to make his squad pretty lethal.

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Primary Detatchment- Red Scorpions

HQ

Sevrin Loth- 175

Troops

5 Tactical Marines- 115
Meltagun, Drop Pod

5 Tactical Marines- 115
Meltagun, Drop Pod

5 Tactical Marines- 120
Grav-Gun, Drop Pod

Fast Attack

Stormtalon Gunship- 125
Skyhammer Missile Launcher

Heavy Support

Centurion Devastator Squad- 260
Grav-Cannons, Omniscope

Allied Detatchment- Tau Empire

HQ

Commander Farsight- 165

Troops

6 Fire Warriors- 54

Elites

3 Crisis Suits- 126
2x Flamers
2x Flamers, Vectored Retro-Thrusters
2x Fusion Gun, Target Lock

Fast Attack

1 Tetra- 35

Heavy Support

Rvarna Battlesuit- 260

Inquisitorial Detatchment

Inquisitor Coteaz- 100

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1650 Points

Edit: Just realised that by RAW, I think Coteaz's extra shooting attack lets you shoot at the deep striking unit, but Split Fire (from the omni scope) would still let you shoot a completely different unit. That seems... strange.. although I'm not going to complain. :smallconfused:

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Originally Posted by Gauntlet

Speaking of allies machinations, how does this list look to you guys? I'm working with no Stronghold Assault or Escalation, but Forgeworld 40K approved stuff is fine. I'm thinking of using Sevrin Loth for guaranteed Gate of Infinity and teleporting Farsight around the board for giggles. If I don't need as much early firepower, I can give Loth Iron Arm + Warp Speed and dump him in one of the drop pods to make his squad pretty lethal.

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Primary Detatchment- Red Scorpions

HQ

Sevrin Loth- 175

Troops

5 Tactical Marines- 115
Meltagun, Drop Pod

5 Tactical Marines- 115
Meltagun, Drop Pod

5 Tactical Marines- 120
Grav-Gun, Drop Pod

Fast Attack

Stormtalon Gunship- 125
Skyhammer Missile Launcher

Heavy Support

Centurion Devastator Squad- 260
Grav-Cannons, Omniscope

Allied Detatchment- Tau Empire

HQ

Commander Farsight- 165

Troops

6 Fire Warriors- 54

Elites

3 Crisis Suits- 126
2x Flamers
2x Flamers, Vectored Retro-Thrusters
2x Fusion Gun, Target Lock

Fast Attack

1 Tetra- 35

Heavy Support

Rvarna Battlesuit- 260

Inquisitorial Detatchment

Inquisitor Coteaz- 100

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1650 Points

Edit: Just realised that by RAW, I think Coteaz's extra shooting attack lets you shoot at the deep striking unit, but Split Fire (from the omni scope) would still let you shoot a completely different unit. That seems... strange.. although I'm not going to complain. :smallconfused:

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Have you considered Farsight Enclave? You can trade Fasight himself for a cheaper suit commander with MirrorCodex, (so with Cotiez, you sieze the init on a 5+ rerolled) and have scoring crisis suits, with a small point surcharge to the firewarriors and suits.

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Originally Posted by Rakaydos

Have you considered Farsight Enclave? You can trade Fasight himself for a cheaper suit commander with MirrorCodex, (so with Cotiez, you sieze the init on a 5+ rerolled) and have scoring crisis suits, with a small point surcharge to the firewarriors and suits.

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I was about to say 'I want Farsight because he doesn't scatter when he deep strikes, which lets me do silly things with Gate of Infinity', and then I realised that he needs to be the Warlord for that to apply, so Tau should probably be my primary detatchment. I guess my list needs rewriting. :smallsigh:

Edit: Also, R'varna battlesuits are only available to Codex: Tau Empire lists as far as I can tell.

I'm still very inexperienced with this game, but when I look at these Eldar/Daemons deathstar lists, it seems to me that Grey Knights could deal with them fairly handily with a Vindicare and a Dreadknight. The Vindicare fires shieldbreaker rounds that can't be blocked by the LoS saves at a herald to deal with daemons, and a Dreadknight can teleport in front of a jet council and lay down an incenirator template before assaulting them. Any reason these wouldn't work? I have a secondary Grey Knights army and it'd be fun to troll tourney players at my store with these.

The problem with that plan is it doesn't stop the re-rollable 3+ armor saves the Warlocks have from their bikes. Also, the vindicare's shots aren't instant death, so he'd need two hits to kill the herald.

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Originally Posted by Darthteej

I'm still very inexperienced with this game, but when I look at these Eldar/Daemons deathstar lists, it seems to me that Grey Knights could deal with them fairly handily with a Vindicare and a Dreadknight.

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What does the Jet Council have;
2+ Armour (Jetbikes + Protect)
3+ Cover Save (Jink + Conceal)
4++
All Re-rollable (Fortune)

A Shield Breaker round will deal exactly one Wound, not counting the 87% chance cover save (not counting that you only Wound 50% of the time anyway). If Baron is in the unit, it goes to a 96% Cover Save. Grats. You did one Wound. I hope you killed a Warlock that matters, because now you die. The Incinerator on the Dreadknight does nothing against 96% Armour Saves.

Similarly, you're only dealing one wound to a Herald. Still Wounding only 50% of the time. As Jetbikes, Screamers will also have a near-permanent Cover Save. If you can't kill the Herald with the Grimoire on Turn 1, the unit is in Assault on Turn 2. Or, Hell, the Screamers move over the Vindicare with slash attacks and you die. Sure, Knights have Preferred Enemy, but, 96% Invulnerable, the Knights can't touch the unit unless the Herald dies.

Maybe if you had three Vindicares, it might work. But I hope you brought Crowe 'cause you're going to need Purifiers.

Yeeeeaaaah my army is just a quick Draigowing I threw together from some Christmas money. I'm just gonna leave those guys be and play with cool people. The whole plan collasped when I realized Heralds had two wounds anyway.

For that matter, as far as i can see the wound will still either be blocked by cover or a Look out Sir most of the time, and then you would be run over.

Still.. if i could be guarantied Fortune and assult with my warlocks the same turn they disembarked, as long as the vehicle had not moved, then i would gladly settle for letting them run around on foot, where people just have to deal with a 4++ rerolled safe :smallfrown:

I know I will be getting biased answers asking here but that's ok.

I have been really really eyeing minitures games as of late, as I have gotten somewhat tired of looking at cardboard squares for all the wargames I play. Plus, I have been kinda searching for another hobby away from the computer, and painting minitures seems and playing games off somewhere away from my house seems like a great idea. Also, I tried MTG and got somewhat upset when I realized that anything I buy is no longer tournament legal after a year. I have been particularly looking for scifi games, as most fantasy ones are weird looking and I am way too tired of WWII to even look at Flames of War.

So, obviously 40k has become the game largest on my radar. (Though I guess I really haven't looked much further than the shelves of my local games store (which is awesome by the way).)

I guess I am not sure what my real question is. I really, honestly, have no idea what I am looking at. I can pick up the $70(!) tome of a rulebook but not read any of it (because shrinkwrap), and pick up various boxes of cool looking space marines and such, but I really have no idea what that would mean to me once I start playing.

I am thinking the best way to look into it all is to go to my local game store on Tuesday, the weekly Warhammer/40k/Warmachines/Hordes night, and see if I can find someone sitting around with enough pieces for two players and bored enough to teach a new player.

I don't know what the heck I am getting into though.

Lore would be great I guess. Where can I find that and start reading?

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Originally Posted by Volatar

I don't know what the heck I am getting into though.

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The first post has a whole lot of useful information if you're just starting out. If you want a feel for how the game plays, drop by your local Games Workshop and ask for a demo game, to see if you like the system (I wouldn't recommend buying anything, though- the GW staff are very good salesmen, but you will want to think about what army you want to play (if you even want to jump in) before you pick anything up.

If you can get a friend to jump in at the same time as you, Dark Vengeance is a cool box to pick up. Again, first post is handy. It also comes with a compact version of the core rulebook which has all the rules in but cuts the fluff. Whether that's what you want is up to you (you seem interested in the lore) but it's quite nice for flipping through mid-game when you don't care so much about the founding of the Imperium and just want to know that a 5 on the Building Damage Table is.

If you want to get into the 40K lore, there is a lot of it out there- for recommendations on intros to the setting, you might want to try posting in the Warhammer 40K Fluff Thread in this same forum.

Yeah, almost all players carry enough models for two armies. Or more. Almost all players will say "Oh, you're new! I'd love to play a game with you to introduce you to everything! Here, sit down, I have four spare armies- do you want the Orks or the evil robots?"

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Originally Posted by Volatar

Lore would be great I guess. Where can I find that and start reading?

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Most of the novels are pretty specific. Like I said in the Fluff thread, if you're looking for general knowledge on the setting, you're best bet is that giant rulebook, that's only about half-full of rules. Then it's about a third of Fluff, and a third of pretty pictures.

Since this is the Tactics thread, and I've already been over the Fluff in the other thread, I'll go over how each army is supposed to work on the tabletop (whether or not you choose to follow what the designers intended, or come up with a weird build outside the norm, that's up to you).

Adepta Sororitas: Like Space Marines, but worse. The only way to access their Codex is through an iPad or eReader (or wait six months for a hard copy). If you really, really, really truly like the even-more-expensive-than-normal Sisters miniatures, then sure, buy them, and use Space Marine rules.

Blood Angels: You've got faster than normal - for Space Marines, that is - vehicles, and your infantry models are slightly more durable than normal. If you must get into Assault, you also have a very minor edge over other types of Marines. Since Lore is a selling point, if you're into Catholic Berserkers, then sure, go for it. Although, Black Templars can do this as well, but are more like Templars...Y'know...In case Black Templars wasn't obvious.

Chaos Daemons: Great battlefield control. Whether you set up shop with hard-to-kill Monstrous Creatures, or get board control with a large number of fast-moving units that can also show up anywhere on the board. Daemons are also no slouch when it comes to Psychic Powers, whether you're using them to buff your own Troops, or gain even more board control with Telepathy, Daemons have got Psychic Powers covered. Unfortunately, they don't do real well outside of close combat.

Chaos Space Marines: Space Marines. With a few extra minor buffs. Again, if the real selling point is Lore, then go for it. You don't really lose a whole lot. One of the few armies in the game that actually wants to be in Assault, because the majority of their units can actually perform in that department.

Dark Angels: Get into the middle of the board, and stay there. Whether you've gone for durability or offensive capabilities, these Angels' main strength lies in the middle of the board.

Dark Eldar: Fast and fragile, with an enourmous amount of firepower. While their guns aren't the most impressive in terms of raw power, they make up for it by having loads of shots.

Eldar: Similar to the Dark counterparts, Eldar are also fast and fragile. Instead of outputting a tremendous amount of shots, they use a lot of weapons that perform better, the better the dice roll, as well as giving themselves a bunch of buffs that makes their normally fairly average firepower into an extremely powerful gunline.

Grey Knights: Another 'masters of the midfield' army. They have lots of shots that go a fair distance, but lack any real longer-range firepower. However, unlike Dark Angels, if their opponent wants to Assault the Grey Knights, that's fine with them.

Imperial Guard: Light infantry, heavy tanks. Your infantry are expected to die in droves, especially in Marine-heavy meta-games. Arguably one of the most expensive armies in the hobby if you want to do them correctly, which does put a lot of people off.

Necrons: Contrast to the Eldar, slow and tough. And pack an enourmous rate of fire. If you just want to put models on the table, these are the guys for you. Conversion work on these guys is actually discouraged except for on a few models. If you're lazy, and want a reasonably strong army with no work, pick up Necrons.
Like a lot of things, the community at large recognises that Necrons are kind of on the powerful side in the game (but not as powerful as some others, mind), they're really boring to collect and paint.

Orks: Tough, but low armour saves. Your goal is to have loads of models on the table. Like any horde army, you're expected to have a vast amount of money if you want to do them right.

Space Marines: The 'Everyman' army. There's a reason that Space Marines are GW's posterboys, even if they aren't the most powerful army. They're easy to use, and you can build your army a variety of different ways. Unfortunately, with aethetics and lore being part of your process, maybe you don't want to model the same model over and over again.
...This last part is true for nearly all armies, but for Marines, with their large, blocky areas of armour, it's especially true. The only army with less individuality-per-model is Necrons.

Space Wolves: A close-range army. They have decent shooting, and decent Assault capabilities, but not enough either way to say "This is a Shooty/Assault army. The models are really cool, in a highly distinctive way that regular Space Marines aren't. But, if verisimilitude (the most heinous word in 40K) is something you look for in science fiction, then, Space Wolves are not going to be your bag. Some of the things on their models are wildly impractical (and, in 40K, that's saying something).

Tau Empire: Firepower. But fairly static. But they make up for their inability to move a lot with even more firepower.

Tyranids: Exactly like Imperial Guard, but, in the first sentence, replace 'tanks' with 'big bugs'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Round 4 Relic vs. Tyranids.
Basically, he put a 6" circle of Termagants onto the Relic and ran away with it. I got KPs, because Tyranids. And I managed to kill a Hive Tyrant which turned out to be his Warlord. Then he killed my Warlord because Tervigons don't care about being hit by Thunder Hammers and IWND is amazing. I had First Blood though.

11-10.

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I'm finding it very interesting that, of all the games you played, one of the two closest runs was against the oldest and 'weakest' Codex that you faced - and, given the number of Ork players that I know of, it wouldn't surprise me if it as one of the older codices at the entire Tourney, too.

Why would you say that was? A b0rked scenario holding you back (I'm well aware of how you feel about Relic :smallwink: )? A really good player in control? Or something else?

Despite potential accusations of band-wagon jumping right now, I've been thinking hard about Tyranids for a long time and I'm intrigued that they can still perform against 6th Ed nonsense even though some people open up their books to a number of pages and draw a big black 'X' through them in permanent marker. :smallbiggrin: