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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Does Heightened Awareness deal with both magical and non-magical traps? If only magical, where would the other part come from?
Edit: Do we need actually several talents/feats for "you can attack on the move"? We have Athletics' Mobile Striker (Spring Attack) for moving on the ground, Fly-By Attack for moving in the air, Swim-By Attack for moving in the water (oops, it's 3PP, but still), then Ride-By Attack for doing this on a mount. I think we are missing one for burrowing. Can't we just consolidate those feats to one?
Edit: I missed that Mobile Striker does effectively do the consolidation for Spring Attack, Fly-By Attack and Swim-By Attack, but doesn't have the other feats associated. On that note, Whirlwind Flip should specify only a movement mode associated skill or at least give the possibility to substitute Acrobatics like Mobility does.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quarian Rex
This feat progression is something that I find to be problematic. Having to wait till 7th level before a character receives their first feat seems to be punitive and disappointing. Also, the character starts losing something without getting anything in return. This seems to be poor design. Why not just use the standard cleric BAB progression applied to feats? That would lose the feats at 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 15, and 19. The spread is more intuitive and doesn't excessively screw over low level characters. The proficient sacrifices really should be updated for the same reasons.
If there is a fear that a character might multiclass to a combat training class after 2nd level then just say that taking this option means that the character cannot switch to a combat training class till after they have sacrificed their first feat. Or perhaps just remove that restriction altogether. The opportunity cost of the lost feats -> utility of combat talents seems pretty well balanced at 1:2 (for the apparent design philosophy of Spheres of Might). Allowing that to apply to SoM classes as well doesn't seem to be that disruptive.
The issue with your proposed structure is that it gives the player something before taking it away.
If we give the first level feat, they also get a talent at second level before even having to exchange anything. Adding another restriction like the one you've suggested is a more clunky fix than we'd like to include here, as it feels more arbitrary than anything else.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
I'm not sure what's Sudden Flank's mention of "When you successfully move through an enemy’s threatened space..." is supposed to mean. From which character the threatened space is determined from? From the talent user? From the enemy? From the guy with whom I'd flank?
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
If you possess Greater Focus and perform Total Defense to regain focus: Do you regain both foci, or only one?
The feat can be read that either they can both be retrieved as it explicitly de-couples it from the normal single focus, or that each will require a separate "trigger" to be recovered.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Does Speed Boost have any effect, if you Con mod is 0 or lower for the expend focus option? It seems that there should be a minimum of 1 here. Also any reasons why this is restricted to run and doesn't allow other movement modes?
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kkplx
If you possess Greater Focus and perform Total Defense to regain focus: Do you regain both foci, or only one?
The feat can be read that either they can both be retrieved as it explicitly de-couples it from the normal single focus, or that each will require a separate "trigger" to be recovered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoM
You may not by any means regain focus more than once per round.
That should about cover it.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
N. Jolly
The issue with your proposed structure is that it gives the player something before taking it away.
If we give the first level feat, they also get a talent at second level before even having to exchange anything. Adding another restriction like the one you've suggested is a more clunky fix than we'd like to include here, as it feels more arbitrary than anything else.
I understand the concern but having to wait till 7th level before the character can select their first feat is ridiculous. Taking away the feat at first level is especially grievous. That first level feat is one of the only sources of customization that a 1st level character has. Taking that away without replacing it with anything is problematic. What about altering the progression of the combat talents to actually provide something for the sacrifice at first level?
The intent here is not to set up a situation where the player can get something for nothing, but neither should you be taking something from the character while providing nothing in return. This is doubly true when you decide to round up on the feat sacrifice. If you are going to make an arbitrary judgement call against the player (taking away 8 feats instead of 7) then you can at least make an arbitrary judgement call in the players favor by placing his remaining 2(!) feats earlier in the progression so they can at least be of some relevance. Even having the feats show up at 3rd and 13th would be vaguely acceptable. Remember the relative value of feats to combat talents is 1:2. You are charging 8 feats for 15 talents. You can make up that one talent deficit by placing the remaining 2 feats somewhere more to the players advantage.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
I noticed something else:
Scoundrel sphere: The Improved Grifting talent increases according to BAB, shouldn't it increase from Slight of Hands ranks?
Also the Conscript "Sphere Specialization" says, "may treat his base attack bonus as being equal to his conscript level +1 when determining the benefits and effects of that sphere; if a sphere would grant effects based on the user’s Hit Dice instead of their base attack bonus, the conscript may treat his total Hit Dice as being equal to his conscript level +1 for the purposes of determining what benefits he receives." Shouldn't there also be a line about treating your ranks in the skill that a sphere gives as their conscript level +1?
The Conscript Sphere Specialization for the Berserker sphere: Iron Rage, doesn't have the "this damage reduction stacks with similar damage reduction" line that other damage reduction abilities do in SoM, intentional?
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RedMop
That should about cover it.
Again, you seem to ignore the specific text of the feat Greater Focus:
"Beneft: You may maintain a second martial focus. This martial focus is gained and expended independently from the first."
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
How exactly does Masterful Defense having Associated Feat: Crane Style work? What exactly happens when you take the followup feats? You count as having Crane Style to get them, but can't actually enter Crane Style stance to gain the benefits of Crane Wing or Crane Riposte.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EldritchWeaver
Edit: I missed that Mobile Striker does effectively do the consolidation for Spring Attack, Fly-By Attack and Swim-By Attack, but doesn't have the other feats associated. On that note, Whirlwind Flip should specify only a movement mode associated skill or at least give the possibility to substitute Acrobatics like Mobility does.
Added a note to the errata too make it work with any of them if you have mobility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EldritchWeaver
I'm not sure what's Sudden Flank's mention of "When you successfully move through an enemy’s threatened space..." is supposed to mean. From which character the threatened space is determined from? From the talent user? From the enemy? From the guy with whom I'd flank?
"enemy's threatened area" means "enemy's threatened area", the area threatened by a hostile creature. Think you probably just misread it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kkplx
If you possess Greater Focus and perform Total Defense to regain focus: Do you regain both foci, or only one?
The feat can be read that either they can both be retrieved as it explicitly de-couples it from the normal single focus, or that each will require a separate "trigger" to be recovered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kkplx
Again, you seem to ignore the specific text of the feat Greater Focus:
"Beneft: You may maintain a second martial focus. This martial focus is gained and expended independently from the first."
Greater focus does not remove the limit on only recovery focus once per round. Gaining one focus only gains you one, spending one focus only spends one, but the 1/round regain limit in unchanged.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
In regards to Hidden Appearance, the benefit is to use Stealth instead of Disguise. Can you only use HA for your own disguise, and not for others? Does it takes as long as described in Disguise to create a disguise? It seems that you even get less bang for your buck than for Great Senses, which is compared to other skill talents already underpowered.
BTW, is there a reason why you can't release an additional PDF update now? It seems that the end version moves more and more from the current version and that makes it more and more difficult to notice what has/will be changed, causing more and more confusion. Or the very least a copy of the internal errata document?
Edit: Piercing Eye: Does it affect all miss chances? For example Time's After Image and blink aren't illusion effects.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Some questions about this system.
1. Is it balanced with vanilla pathfinder with the classes and such or is it a power increase?
You can sacrifice one thing (that you can get from a feat or a feat) to gain 2 sphere talents in a lot of different wheys. And sphere talents give you one or more feats back.
2. Is this balanced? I would think it would raise the power level a lot.
3. If this power level is intended why not just have a talent and a feat that gives you 2 talents for the price of one? Then people can Pick and choose when to take their feats, instead of being pigeonholed into a certain order. You could also have a limit on how many talents you can have. Like not more than your level or something like that.
4. To use shrapnel with shatter earth. You need to destroy one foot of material. A foot of wood has 120 HP a foot of stone has 180 HP. So it's kind of hard to do. Wouldn't it be better if it scaled with how much of the material you destroyed or something like that?
5. Is the loss of 5 bab enuf to gain 15 talents? the stormlord has that exchange don't think his other ability losses are terrible.
Balance wise it feels like something is wrong. Wass it intended form the beginning that all full bab classes would get 10 talents and 3/4 bab classes would get 5 for free or something and then it got removed later or something like that. This would raise the power level but I'm pretty sure that it already dose that.
6. Just found Shadow Warrior they lose 5 bab and gain 15 talents. If this is an option for some classes why isn't it an option for everyone? A Ranger might want to swap out 5 bab and get 15 talents as well.
So one sphere talent is worth 1/2 a feat or 1/3 bab from what i can see. I know that fighters have gain 3.3 talents per feat sacrificed.
Also, 15 talents are worth 6 level alchemy casting. So 2.5 talents would be 1 level of casting. 4 level paladin casting is worth 10 talents. So I would think 9 level casting would be 20 talents.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
It's not balanced against Core Pathfinder simply because Core Pathfinder has no proper point to balance against.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
If it's not balanced with the normal system then it should make classes and stuff balanced with the new system and some classes do not have archetypes.
And the archetype system looks out interesting options. With spheres of power, you did not have to have an archetype to be effective. But here it looks like you need it.
You could trade out 5 feats to get 10 talents. But you can't pick the levels for it and is worse than trading out 5 rogue talents or something like that.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Regarding Arrow Split: Any reason why it isn't associated with Clustered Shots?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zautos
If it's not balanced with the normal system then it should make classes and stuff balanced with the new system and some classes do not have archetypes.
The point Wartex1 made, is that Pathfinder has a continuum of classes/class efficiency. PF is not balanced with itself, which means that there is no inherent balance point you can aim for. You can choose some point of the continuum at your leisure and back it up with a Paizo class. Which means that it becomes mostly a personal preference where the optimal balance point of the PF system is. In this case, the authors aimed for the middle.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EldritchWeaver
Regarding Arrow Split: Any reason why it isn't associated with Clustered Shots?
The point Wartex1 made, is that Pathfinder has a continuum of classes/class efficiency. PF is not balanced with itself, which means that there is no inherent balance point you can aim for. You can choose some point of the continuum at your leisure and back it up with a Paizo class. Which means that it becomes mostly a personal preference where the optimal balance point of the PF system is. In this case, the authors aimed for the middle.
That is a lot different from what he said.
Also i don't think that Traiding out somthing like 6 feats for fighter and gaining 20 talants is aming for the middle.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zautos
Some questions about this system.
1. Is it balanced with vanilla pathfinder with the classes and such or is it a power increase?
You can sacrifice one thing (that you can get from a feat or a feat) to gain 2 sphere talents in a lot of different wheys. And sphere talents give you one or more feats back.
2. Is this balanced? I would think it would raise the power level a lot.
3. If this power level is intended why not just have a talent and a feat that gives you 2 talents for the price of one? Then people can Pick and choose when to take their feats, instead of being pigeonholed into a certain order. You could also have a limit on how many talents you can have. Like not more than your level or something like that.
4. To use shrapnel with shatter earth. You need to destroy one foot of material. A foot of wood has 120 HP a foot of stone has 180 HP. So it's kind of hard to do. Wouldn't it be better if it scaled with how much of the material you destroyed or something like that?
5. Is the loss of 5 bab enuf to gain 15 talents? the stormlord has that exchange don't think his other ability losses are terrible.
Balance wise it feels like something is wrong. Wass it intended form the beginning that all full bab classes would get 10 talents and 3/4 bab classes would get 5 for free or something and then it got removed later or something like that. This would raise the power level but I'm pretty sure that it already dose that.
6. Just found Shadow Warrior they lose 5 bab and gain 15 talents. If this is an option for some classes why isn't it an option for everyone? A Ranger might want to swap out 5 bab and get 15 talents as well.
So one sphere talent is worth 1/2 a feat or 1/3 bab from what i can see. I know that fighters have gain 3.3 talents per feat sacrificed.
Also, 15 talents are worth 6 level alchemy casting. So 2.5 talents would be 1 level of casting. 4 level paladin casting is worth 10 talents. So I would think 9 level casting would be 20 talents.
Let me try to answer some questions here.
1/2. It's balanced with the system as a whole rather than the classes. As pointed out, Pathfinder's classes don't have a great internal balance, and at some point, we have to look at things and ask where we should be aiming, and which parts of the system just aren't working. For example, the striker is almost certainly better than the fighter, the armiger is better than the swashbuckler, the technician is better than the rogue, and we're entirely fine with that. Classes that have outdated design given the system and how its evolved need to be pushed forward, which is why an archetyped SoM fighter will probably be better than a core fighter; because leaving it at core state would be painfully weak, as it is at current (core fighter is an issue here). There's also a lot of feats that are not worth what's gained, especially past core. Many feats have lost a lot of value in how they're used due to newer options, which is why we have done things the way we have.
So to answer fully, SoM isn't particularly balanced with Core Martials in a core only setting, but I would say it's balanced against the expanded options which are available with other paizo material, like mutagenic warrior, AWT, and such.
3. The reason why feats only give one talent is because of the reasons you're stating, that you're allowed to control their acquisition rather than the standard layout that most of them have. That's a lot more powerful than getting them when mandated, which is why the feat only gives a single talent. We took into account the customization allowed, and balanced against that.
4/5: Not really my area of expertise, pinged the others.
6. That's because it also locks the class out of a large amount of archetypes as well, and we wanted to account for that. Vigilante specialization is a very 'live or die' class feature for the vigilante, and because we're taking it away, we wanted to compensate it with something that felt appropriate.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
So it's a small, silly thing that I should have thought of way back when it was the main topic, but what would the odds be of a note on Dragon/Zodiac Tattoos about being able to use Inscribe Magical Tattoo in place of Craft Arms and Armor when putting bonuses on the tattoos from the feat(s)? Not sure if that throws wrenches into anything, but it seemed like it would be a thematic thing to have, especially with the tradition those two feats are related to.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
How are you expected to start as a gun-user in spheres of might?
The gunslinger starts with a gun only they can use and cannot be sold.
Did I miss the part where one of the proficiencies or classes lets you start with it?
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kkplx
How are you expected to start as a gun-user in spheres of might?
The gunslinger starts with a gun only they can use and cannot be sold.
Did I miss the part where one of the proficiencies or classes lets you start with it?
Black Powder Brawler Strikers start with a pistol.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
It would probably work as part of a martial tradition. Swap out one or two of the talents and you’d still have enough for proficiency and base Sniper. You could do it as a Conscript specialization, but you lose out on more in the long run.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kkplx
How are you expected to start as a gun-user in spheres of might?
The gunslinger starts with a gun only they can use and cannot be sold.
Did I miss the part where one of the proficiencies or classes lets you start with it?
Yeah, perhaps an errata of the Firearm Proficieny granting a broken firearm like a gunslinger would be worthwhile.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Equipment Sphere- "Critical Genius" talent should specify if it is applied before or after keen/improved critical.
Equipment Sphere- "Finesse Fighting" I can't seem to find anything about this "finesse weapon special feature" thing. Perhaps it should say something like, "...with light weapons and other weapons usable with the Weapon Finesse feat"
Equipment Sphere- "Splitshot" talent says you "can" target two creatures, but do you need to or can you target the same creature? Also shouldn't this have the Associated Feat: Manyshot tag?
Dual Wielding Sphere- Shouldn't this sphere have the Associated Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting tag?
Lancer Sphere- Should the "Cruel Vibration (impale)" also maximize the damage from Vital Strike? Also shouldn't the Impale ability only work with piercing or slashing weapons?
And just to confirm, you can use Vital Strike on multi-attack special attack actions like Barrage, but it'll only affect the first attack, correct?
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sunderedhero
Dual Wielding Sphere- Shouldn't this sphere have the Associated Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting tag?
The thing is it doesn't remove the penalties that TWF removes, so anyone who wants to also do full attack TWF would still buy the feat.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sunderedhero
Equipment Sphere- "Critical Genius" talent should specify if it is applied before or after keen/improved critical.
Equipment Sphere- "Finesse Fighting" I can't seem to find anything about this "finesse weapon special feature" thing. Perhaps it should say something like, "...with light weapons and other weapons usable with the Weapon Finesse feat"
Equipment Sphere- "Splitshot" talent says you "can" target two creatures, but do you need to or can you target the same creature? Also shouldn't this have the Associated Feat: Manyshot tag?
Dual Wielding Sphere- Shouldn't this sphere have the Associated Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting tag?
Lancer Sphere- Should the "Cruel Vibration (impale)" also maximize the damage from Vital Strike? Also shouldn't the Impale ability only work with piercing or slashing weapons?
And just to confirm, you can use Vital Strike on multi-attack special attack actions like Barrage, but it'll only affect the first attack, correct?
from what i can see. Critical genius. swops out the weapons critical modifier and improved critical modifies the weapons crit range. So Critical genius first and improved critical later.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quarian Rex
I understand the concern but having to wait till 7th level before the character can select their first feat is ridiculous. Taking away the feat at first level is especially grievous. That first level feat is one of the only sources of customization that a 1st level character has. Taking that away without replacing it with anything is problematic.
I think choosing a martial tradition even with feat-trade is still an option, which gives at least a Sphere freely alongside with some proficiencies at level 1.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sunderedhero
Equipment Sphere- "Finesse Fighting" I can't seem to find anything about this "finesse weapon special feature" thing. Perhaps it should say something like, "...with light weapons and other weapons usable with the Weapon Finesse feat"
I could have sworn that there is such a feature like fragile is, but apparently Paizo missed to add that. I'd say, that your replacement text is at least the intention of the authors.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EldritchWeaver
BTW, is there a reason why you can't release an additional PDF update now? It seems that the end version moves more and more from the current version and that makes it more and more difficult to notice what has/will be changed, causing more and more confusion. Or the very least a copy of the internal errata document?
I also think it is high time that we get an additional PDF update or in the very least a copy of the internal errata document. I like EldritchWeaver keep on happening upon errors and end up going through several thread posts before finding out that it was already reported.
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Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest
Is Alchemy's poison DC supposed to be based on Craft ranks instead of BAB?