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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Soras Teva Gee
I think on further reflection I know why it was left out... its precludes any Author's Saving Throw.
At present Amy and Rory can be extracted from their predicament without too much difficult in story terms. Timey-wimey keeps them there, so just timey-wimey them out.
Sure sure the actors may want out now with finality or whatever... but say a few years from now can be talked into a brief return for a big finale episode. Heck we don't know how the season will end, maybe they've already been slated to get out and this is all just to keep a lid on it in the meta-game. Not likely but its a possibility. And still what if down the road there is a desire from any party (say from fan-outcry) to revisit/fix that ending somehow
The P.S. scene would lock things in as a story, and put it anything written going forward either having to ignore that bit, or have to put Amy and Rory right back where they were after it was all said and done.
mmmh maybe.. then again, they can still make an apparition or two "in their timeframe/location"..even without the chance for extraction..or maybe they can still be extracted but cannot (or don't want to for personal reasons) go back to their "old life/timeframe" so the net result is that Williams Sr. still doesn't get to see them again.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
I just finished season 6!
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Clever ending, although it was a bit obvious. I wish they had done something like this in an earlier episode so that we would have had foreshadowing.
It also leaves me a ton of questions, like "if the silence are trying to protect the universe, why did they use the TARDIS to blow it up at the end of season 5?"
I am beginning to really resent the presence of River Song and the Ponds. It has been two seasons, get some new companions!
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tvtyrant
I just finished season 6!
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Clever ending, although it was a bit obvious. I wish they had done something like this in an earlier episode so that we would have had foreshadowing.
It also leaves me a ton of questions, like "if the silence are trying to protect the universe, why did they use the TARDIS to blow it up at the end of season 5?"
I am beginning to really resent the presence of River Song and the Ponds. It has been two seasons, get some new companions!
To be fair, so far there's only been one episode with River Song in season 7 and she was much more tolerable in that one. (More Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead River, and not all-knowing-super-smart-can-do-anything-the-Doctor-can-but-better-River.)
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Random_person
Neil Gaiman? Hells yes. Writing the Cybermen, who more and more feel like bad comedy lately? Hells yes. The rest pales, really and truly pales, in comparison. I'll be fascinated to see what Gaiman can do to make the Cybermen feel fresh again.
Oh....my....gosh.
I knew that Neil was writing an episode.
I did not know it would be a Cyberman episode. That...I expect this.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dps
Yeah, and I still feel that would have been a perfectly good send-off for Amy and Rory. In a sense, it kind of was anyway. In between that and "The Angels Take Manhattan", they didn't really do anything all that much that was really plot-significant except in "The Wedding of River Song", and that was in an alternate time-line anyway. Well, OK, "The Power of Three" was about their relationship with The Doctor more than it was about the Slow Invasion, but they didn't actually do that much. And look at the other episodes in there:
"Closing Time": basically, they just had a cameo, and no interaction with The Doctor or anything to do with the plot.
"The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe": again, they just have what is essentially a cameo, though they do at least interact with The Doctor (and yeah, it's a touching scene).
"Asylum of the Daleks": other than the pointless (and quickly resolved) divorce subplot, what did they really do? OK, the Daleks say that it's known that The Doctor requires companions, but is there any in-story reason that the Daleks couldn't have grabbed some of The Doctor's past companions (after all, Amy and Rory weren't travelling with The Doctor right at the time they were "acquired"). Sure, on a meta-level, Moffatt has said that he doesn't intend to re-use any RTD-era characters (I guess River is an exception since Moffatt created her), but in-story, the Daleks could have just as easily acquired, say, Captain Jack, or it even could have been an opportunity to bring back another Classic Who companion.
"Dinosaurs on a Spaceship": they didn't really do all that much in this one, and even without them, The Doctor would have still had Nefertiti and whatshisname the hunter. Though we would have missed out on Brian.
"A Town Called Mercy": they really had very little to do in this one.
I think I mentioned that I don't think this season is all too good. The lack of the Ponds doing anything interesting being a factor in it.
Mind you Closing Time and The Doctor, Widow, Wardrobe were meant to be cameos more for an emotional level that the Ponds are doing ok and that the Doctor wants to go back to his friends. So I'm not sure they should really count.
Asylum, you hit pretty squarely on the head.
Now Dinosaurs does have the Ponds doing a fair few things. Amy lead around Neffertiti and fought off some dinos, while Rory piloted a spaceship. Mind you Rory's part was horrendously contrived but at least he was doing something.
And yeah in Town called Mercy they did very little, except Amy telling off the Doctor which I guess I'll give 1/2 a point. (As an aside, kinda disappointed that Amy went from "I can hunt down velociraptors, Muldoon eat your heart out" to "Derr, if I pull the trigger the gun goes off")
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dienekes
(As an aside, kinda disappointed that Amy went from "I can hunt down velociraptors, Muldoon eat your heart out" to "Derr, if I pull the trigger the gun goes off")
Old fashioned pistols tend to have notoriously low trigger pull weights due to inconsistent construction methods or due to owner modifications for gun fighting.
A mass produced futuristic stun gun isn't likely to have the same quality issues as a individually made black powder slug thrower.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brother Oni
Old fashioned pistols tend to have notoriously low trigger pull weights due to inconsistent construction methods or due to owner modifications for gun fighting.
A mass produced futuristic stun gun isn't likely to have the same quality issues as a individually made black powder slug thrower.
Course its still highly unlikely that she just happened to pull out a double action revolver... or discharged accidentally only to then **** the gun and pull the trigger again.
I was with the Marshal.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
So I have a question...
Why's The Doctor called...The Doctor?
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mindfreak
So I have a question...
Why's The Doctor called...The Doctor?
Who knows? It seems that many/most graduates of the Academy take nouns as names (the Master, the Rani, the Corsair, etc.). But as for how he got the name, I don't know.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mindfreak
So I have a question...
Why's The Doctor called...The Doctor?
Because Mr. Who sounds rubbish as the title of a sci-fi show. Basically.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mindfreak
So I have a question...
Why's The Doctor called...The Doctor?
somewhere, sometimes.. the Silence is falling..again
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
So, I found this in my US history textbook. The resemblance isn't perfect, but it's pretty close, even down to the bow tie. Spoiled for largeness.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aran nu tasar
So, I found this in my US history textbook. The resemblance isn't perfect, but it's pretty close, even down to the bow tie. Spoiled for largeness.
this mildly lessens my distate for telegraph for having put the pony express out of commission
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mindfreak
So I have a question...
Why's The Doctor called...The Doctor?
If we believe the Master in The Sound of Drums, he chose it himself. "The Doctor, the man who makes people better... how sanctimonious is that?"
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thufir
If we believe the Master in The Sound of Drums, he chose it himself. "The Doctor, the man who makes people better... how sanctimonious is that?"
Pretty sure that was established in Classic Who as well so its always been the explanation.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mindfreak
So I've been watching Doctor Who after extreme recommendations from friends.
And me and my brother love it.
We started from the 9th Doctor and...
Spoiler
Show
He just became the 10th Doctor
Anyways, I've gotta ask...
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Will it be just as sad when he becomes the 11th Doctor?
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Personally, I think it's even sadder than 9's regeneration. Without going into details, all I can say is :smallfrown:
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mindfreak
So I've been watching Doctor Who after extreme recommendations from friends.
And me and my brother love it.
We started from the 9th Doctor and...
Spoiler
Show
He just became the 10th Doctor
Anyways, I've gotta ask...
Spoiler
Show
Will it be just as sad when he becomes the 11th Doctor?
Spoiler
Show
Without going into too much detail, they made a much bigger deal over Tennant's departure than they did over Eccleston's. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing - and whether you're talking the regeneration moment itself or the leadup as well - is a whole mess of YMMV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mindfreak
So I have a question...
Why's The Doctor called...The Doctor?
Kobold-Bard hit the nail on the head. If you want to make a time traveling alien sound cooler and you're writing in the 60s, give him a title as a name rather than some incomprehensible mouthful of hard consonants and apostrophes. Once a character has been established, you don't generally go about changing their name.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aran nu tasar
So, I found this in my US history textbook. The resemblance isn't perfect, but it's pretty close, even down to the bow tie. Spoiled for largeness.
I love his smirk. "Hello, there! Bet you weren't expecting me here, were you?"
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CarpeGuitarrem
I love his smirk. "Hello, there! Bet you weren't expecting me here, were you?"
where's the spanish inquisition when you need it?...
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
OK, I mentioned this earlier, so it's time to actually post on it in more detail. Let's examine the question of whether or not, in general, The Doctor's companions end up better or worse off for having travelled with him. I'll go with my list of who counts as a companion, and I'm considering only companions from official TV broadcasts and not counting any from other media. Also, I guess it's not going to hurt to spoiler this:Spoiler
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Susan: We know nothing about what Susan's life was like before she started travelling with her grandfather, so normally we'd not have much basis for comparison. However, we do know that he left her behind so that she could stay with a man she had fallen in love with, and since the man in question was a resistance leader on a Dalek-occupied Earth, it seems reasonable to assume that she might have been better off if he'd left her on Galifrey. So we'll score Susan as being worse off.
Ian and Barbara: They were friends and collegues before travelling with The Doctor; they seem to have ended up pretty much as they started, except that they were apparantly a couple by the end of their time with The Doctor--but then, that might have happened eventually anyway. I'll call this one no effect.
Vicki: She was rescued by the Tardis crew from a crashed spaceship, and while she ended up in a time and place that I wouldn't chose for myself, it was her choice. I'd score that as better off.
Steven: He was also rescued from a crashed ship (not the same one as Vicki), and ended up in a time place where he chose to stay. Score that as better off.
Katarina: Well, she ended up dead. Of course, if she hadn't left with The Doctor, she would have likely ended up either dead or enslaved. Still, "definately dead" has to be worse than "likely dead or enslaved", so, worse off.
Dodo: We don't really know much about her. She basically just wandered into the Tardis and later pretty much just wandered out. Call it no effect.
Ben and Polly: We don't really know a whole lot about this pair, either, though they're generally considered better, more interesting characters than Dodo. They end up returning to Earth on the same date as they had orignally left it (though a year or so had passed for them), and they might have hooked up even without travelling with The Doctor. Call it another no effect.
Jamie and Zoe: Though they didn't start travelling together with The Doctor or become an "item" unlike the other 2 couples listed above, I'm dealing with them together because they had the same ultimate fate: their memories of The Doctor were erased and each was returned to their own time. Ignoring the continuity questions raised by Jamie's presence in "The Two Doctors", I'll call this yet another no effect.
Victoria: This is a bit of a tough call. She was already a prisoner of the Daleks when The Doctor first came across her, and without his and Jamie's involvement, that wouldn't have ended well. However, her capture by the Daleks was part of their plan to lure The Doctor, and she ended up time-displaced and a nervous wreck. I guess I have to say worse off.
The Brigadier: Hmm. He had to face threats that Earth wouldn't have been able to handle without help from The Doctor, but OTOH, generally those weren't threats directed at the Brig personally, but rather against all of humanity. I'm tempted to say better off, but for now I'll go with no effect.
Liz: While her situation didn't really change as a result of her adventures with The Doctor, she got more character development than most companions, and was a better person for having known The Doctor. I'll say better off.
Jo: I have a feeling that I'm going to get nailed for saying that Liz was a better person for having known The Doctor and not saying that for Liz (and almost everyone else, too), but I'd say she ended up pretty much where she started, so no effect.
Sarah Jane: Well, The Doctor dropped her off in the wrong town, but more than made up for it by later sending her K-9. I'll say better off.
Harry: Well, not much to say about Harry. No effect.
That brings us to the early part of the Tom Baker era. I think I'll wrap this up for tonight, and post a second part tomorrow or Tuesday. This may end up being in 3 parts. The score so far:
Worse off: 3.
No effect: 10.
Better off: 4.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dehro
where's the spanish inquisition when you need it?...
Not even the Spanish Inquisition expects the Doctor.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindfreak;14044728
Anyways, I've gotta ask...
[SPOILER
Will it be just as sad when he becomes the 11th Doctor?[/SPOILER]
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Personally I was glad to see the back of him by the time it came to it! Ten's a fun Doctor in many ways... but he does outstay his welcome.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mindfreak
So I've been watching Doctor Who after extreme recommendations from friends.
And me and my brother love it.
We started from the 9th Doctor and...
Spoiler
Show
He just became the 10th Doctor
Anyways, I've gotta ask...
Spoiler
Show
Will it be just as sad when he becomes the 11th Doctor?
Spoiler
Show
Personally, I was not a fan of the massive Russel T. Davies buildup, and found it to be a mild slight against Smith. Not quoting or anything...but it now (in retrospect) makes me want to go "Really? That's what you handed Smith?" However, I did enjoy Smith's entrance.
I was much sadder about Eccles leaving.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Part 2 of our survey of companions:
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Leela: I guess, since she went from living as a member of a primitive tribe to living on Galifrey, I'll call it better off.
K-9: Well, he's a machine, but he seems happy enough whereever he is. No effect, I guess.
Romana: She chose to remain behind in E-Space, but I don't see how that's better off than being on Galifrey, but I can't really say that she was worse off, either. No effect.
Adric: Do I even have to say it? Worse off.
Nyssa: Hmm. Technically, she didn't become a companion until the events of "Logopolis", when she was being held hostage by The Master. However, she first appeared in the previous story, "The Keeper of Traken". Obviously, running the hospital on Terminus, for all its problems, is a better situation than being held hostage, but it's not a clear improvement over her situation at the earlier time we first meet her. I guess I'll go with better off.
Tegan: I suppose no effect.
Vislor: Started out as an alien exile hiding on Earth and posing as a human; ended up being able to return to his home planet. Though his being able to return really isn't any of The Doctor's doing, that's still better off.
Kamelion: He was under the control of The Master to start with, and though The Doctor freed him, he later fell under The Master's control again and then was destroyed by The Doctor at his own request after again being freed, but badly damaged. Kamelion was pretty much alway badly off, but being mercy killed by The Doctor makes him definately worse off.
Peri: Well, shoot. Not sure how to handle this one. They killed her off, then retconned it so that she wasn't dead. Given how poorly she was often treated by the Sixth Doctor, I'll go with worse off, even with accepting the retcon.
Mel: Since we are never shown or told about the circumstances under which she began travelling with The Doctor, I don't see any choice but to go with no effect.
Ace: Here we have the opposite of the problem that we have with Mel--we don't know what happened to Ace after "Survival". Even if we assume that the mention of a woman named Dorothy who runs an organization call "A Charitable Earth" by Sarah Jane refers to Ace, we still don't know her circumstances upon leaving the Tardis, so again we go with a default no effect.
That finishes up the classic series companions. The score for this segment:
Worse off: 3
No effect: 5
Better off: 3
Cumulative score so far:
Worse off: 6
No effect: 15
Better off: 7
Coming: NuWho companions!
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mindfreak
So I've been watching Doctor Who after extreme recommendations from friends.
And me and my brother love it.
We started from the 9th Doctor and...
Spoiler
Show
He just became the 10th Doctor
Anyways, I've gotta ask...
Spoiler
Show
Will it be just as sad when he becomes the 11th Doctor?
This is very much a situation in which YMMV, but… Spoiler
Show
… my mileage is "Oh, LOL, no." Davies spent his entire run constantly trying to top what he'd done before - raising the stakes (which started with "the survival of humanity," and then went up), pulling in larger and larger casts of characters (especially bringing back previous Companions), and eliciting ever more ridiculously frenetic, over-the-top performances from the performers (especially Tennant, who seemed to naturally lean that direction anyway). By the end of Davies's (and Ten's) tenure, the show had gone far past bordering on self-parody. Worst of all, Ten's departure - when it finally arrived, was so exaggeratedly dragged-out, overblown, and mawkish that you'd have thought it was the end of the series - or perhaps the utter and final end of all that was good and right in the world. It didn't inspire sadness so much as impatience. But as has been said, YMMV.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mindfreak
So I've been watching Doctor Who after extreme recommendations from friends.
And me and my brother love it.
We started from the 9th Doctor and...
Spoiler
Show
He just became the 10th Doctor
Anyways, I've gotta ask...
Spoiler
Show
Will it be just as sad when he becomes the 11th Doctor?
Spoiler
Show
Like others have said, YMMV, but I say yes. It's an touching ending, and not just for Ten, but for the Davis' era of the show. It's good stuff.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
In regards to Ten's departure. My answer is probably not now that you've heard all of these opinions. :smalltongue:
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Speaking of regenerations, it must have really been something to have been watching the show when One regenerated into Two. Especially when you consider that people back then didn't follow entertainment news nearly to the extent that they do now--the vast majority of viewers probably wouldn't have even known that Hartnell was leaving and Troughton was taking his place. It happened in a lost episode, but even if that episode was found and we could watch it now, it wouldn't have had the same impact because we wouldn't be surprised.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dps
Speaking of regenerations, it must have really been something to have been watching the show when One regenerated into Two. Especially when you consider that people back then didn't follow entertainment news nearly to the extent that they do now--the vast majority of viewers probably wouldn't have even known that Hartnell was leaving and Troughton was taking his place. It happened in a lost episode, but even if that episode was found and we could watch it now, it wouldn't have had the same impact because we wouldn't be surprised.
No to mention it would have been a fairly risky move. Have one actor leave but keep the character, just have him played by another actor? We expect it from Doctor Who now, but then? It could have potentially killed the show.
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Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow
Regen Plot Question:
Spoiler
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If I am understanding the plot correctly, Time Lords typically only have 12 regenerations. But in the Last Great Time War the Time Lords used a device which can reset regenerations. Does this mean the doctor is on his next to last regeneration, or are we going to see a 13th doctor?