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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dusk Eclipse
Umm coffee Janine's face looks weird in the second to last panel. like a combination of :smallfrown: and :smallannoyed:
I know. That was intentional; it's how she's feeling right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marnath
Nice update. Couple thoughts here:
Tinder is strong! O.o
Having held an angry cat, I have to hope Lloyd was wearing thick gloves and arm protection, or he'll be in serious pain. :smalltongue:
Sounds like being a second-class citizen isn't the best thing in the whole world. I bet she has trouble making enough money to support herself and her brother.
*sigh* Dang it Janine... :smallsigh: Learn some tact, girl!
Thank you!
A. Tinder's a dragon. B. Serrin weighs about 90 pounds. 95, tops.
Tell me about angry cats; I've got the scars to prove it.
Gee, you think? And this is one of the more progressive places on the continent...:smalleek: (Oh, and Rem's a girl.)
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CoffeeIncluded
I know. That was intentional; it's how she's feeling right now.
Thank you!
A. Tinder's a dragon. B. Serrin weighs about 90 pounds. 95, tops.
Tell me about angry cats; I've got the scars to prove it.
Gee, you think? And this is one of the more progressive places on the continent...:smalleek: (Oh, and Rem's a girl.)
Yeah, I know he's a dragon. But he's so skinny! :smallwink:
Sister then. :smallcool:
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Boy. I guess Lucrid got his wish when he wanted Serrin to live a sheltered life if she snapped like that.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marnath
*sigh* Dang it Janine... :smallsigh: Learn some tact, girl!
Isn't that what she's doing in the last panel? Seriously, though, Salblaze (the whole reason for Astrid's hatred of Plavaans) was only on loan from Tiamat and presumably had been HER ally for much longer (I'm assuming Tiamat is still female, but non-Evil in Coffee's cosmology). So where's Tiamat's reaction? Shouldn't Tinder have more reason to hate Plavaan's than Janine?
Also, I know I've said this before, but Janine's hatred actually seems rational to me, given the fact that Plavaan's worship the gods that slaughtered her goddesses ally who had done no wrong and was, in fact, coming to BLESS their lands (still, the Plavaan's seem to have ended up with the most fertile land despite not having that blessing).
I already see that in-story, as foreshadowed by Serrin, the Plavaan gods were not malicious and it's all just one big misunderstanding, but why does nobody know that? Doesn't Kylie know WHY she's not allowed out during the Day of Ascension? If it is just one big misunderstanding, why not just pull out the Book of Rockwell, the orc god (which, I assume, has a down-homey picture of quaint country-folks doing quaint country-folksy things on its cover) and point to the passage that says they thought it was an invasion or something? Then she can post it in the town square one Saturday evening and there would be much less reason for the Church of Astrid to hate them.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
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Originally Posted by
Raging Gene Ray
Isn't that what she's doing in the last panel? Seriously, though, Salblaze (the whole reason for Astrid's hatred of Plavaans) was only on loan from Tiamat and presumably had been HER ally for much longer (I'm assuming Tiamat is still female, but non-Evil in Coffee's cosmology). So where's Tiamat's reaction? Shouldn't Tinder have more reason to hate Plavaan's than Janine?
Also, I know I've said this before, but Janine's hatred actually seems rational to me, given the fact that Plavaan's worship the gods that slaughtered her goddesses ally who had done no wrong and was, in fact, coming to BLESS their lands (still, the Plavaan's seem to have ended up with the most fertile land despite not having that blessing).
I already see that in-story, as foreshadowed by Serrin, the Plavaan gods were not malicious and it's all just one big misunderstanding, but why does nobody know that? Doesn't Kylie know WHY she's not allowed out during the Day of Ascension? If it is just one big misunderstanding, why not just pull out the Book of Rockwell, the orc god (which, I assume, has a down-homey picture of quaint country-folks doing quaint country-folksy things on its cover) and point to the passage that says they thought it was an invasion or something? Then she can post it in the town square one Saturday evening and there would be much less reason for the Church of Astrid to hate them.
No, Tiamat helped Astrid make them, but they're Astrid's.
Even if it is a bit misunderstanding, the Book of Rockwell certainly does not have quaint country images on its cover any more than the Book of Astrid does. The truth is somewhere in the middle; it will be revealed eventually, but not now.
Besides, do you honestly think anybody would listen to Kylie if she did that? If anything, they'd grow even angrier and she might not make it out of the town square alive.
On that note, the Plavaan aren't explicitly forbidden from going outside during the Day of Ascent, but everybody knows that doing so is tantamount to suicide.
No. It is suicide.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dusk Eclipse
Umm coffee Janine's face looks weird in the second to last panel. like a combination of :smallfrown: and :smallannoyed:
Yeah, I was wondering which it was supposed to be there. But then I settled that it's a combination of the two that couldn't be expressed otherwise. (or at least not that I know of)
As for the last panel, I can think of one caption:
Not Amused.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CoffeeIncluded
No, Tiamat helped Astrid make them, but they're Astrid's.
Even if it is a bit misunderstanding, the Book of Rockwell certainly does not have quaint country images on its cover any more than the Book of Astrid does. The truth is somewhere in the middle; it will be revealed eventually, but not now.
Besides, do you honestly think anybody would listen to Kylie if she did that? If anything, they'd grow even angrier and she might not make it out of the town square alive.
On that note, the Plavaan aren't explicitly forbidden from going outside during the Day of Ascent, but everybody knows that doing so is tantamount to suicide.
No. It is suicide.
Coffee, if this setting is ever playable, my first reaction would be to make some sort of goblin who did go outside on the Day of Ascent.
and survived. :smallcool:
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CoffeeIncluded
No, Tiamat helped Astrid make them, but they're Astrid's.
So...if Salblaze was created like a mortal, could he be resurrected? Is there an afterlife for gods? Maybe I'm getting outside the scope of things here...
Quote:
Even if it is a bit misunderstanding, the Book of Rockwell certainly does not have quaint country images on its cover any more than the Book of Astrid does.
I know. I was making a horrible pun there...and when I mentioned when Kylie should post that passage.
Quote:
Besides, do you honestly think anybody would listen to Kylie if she did that? If anything, they'd grow even angrier and she might not make it out of the town square alive.
The town square thing was just an excuse to make a bad pun. What I'm trying to say is why don't they point to their teachings and THEIR take on the murder of Salblaze? It would at least discredit the image of Plavaan doctrine being simply "Might makes right and making sissy fertility goddesses of love and healing and all that pansy crap cry is AWESOME!!!"
Quote:
On that note, the Plavaan aren't explicitly forbidden from going outside during the Day of Ascent, but everybody knows that doing so is tantamount to suicide.
No, but the Plavaan keeping their side of the story to themselves only makes sense to me if they don't know about Astrid's side at all and see no reason to defend themselves. The fact they know what the Day of Ascent is and that it has something to do with why they're hated so much demonstrates that yes, they know what's going on, so why not speak up?
...I'm aware that you're probably going to answer most if not all of these in comic later on. I'm just stating my appreciation of the story and sharing my thoughts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
my first reaction would be to make some sort of goblin who did go outside on the Day of Ascent.
and survived. :smallcool:
How? By stealth? That sounds like a pointless act if nobody knows about it but you. By force? Now you've given them a LEGITIMATE reason to hate goblins. By diplomacy? That's a victory...unless you were just preaching to the converted anyway.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
I know this is a pretty serious moment, but I find it funny that Tinder is still holding Serrin when the comic ends.
Well, it looks like team cohesion has taken a blow after Lloyd's flashback. The story probably hasn't developed enough for them to split up, but I'm thinking it'll take some time or an important challenge for them to fully trust each other again.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raging Gene Ray
How? By stealth? That sounds like a pointless act if nobody knows about it but you. By force? Now you've given them a LEGITIMATE reason to hate goblins. By diplomacy? That's a victory...unless you were just preaching to the converted anyway.
What makes you so sure the goblin would be trying to fix it? If you've got an angry mob on your ass, you ain't gonna try calming them down. You're going to RUN.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HalfTangible
What makes you so sure the goblin would be trying to fix it? If you've got an angry mob on your ass, you ain't gonna try calming them down. You're going to RUN.
Yeah, but the :smallcool: made it sound like it was a deliberate choice and ended in some sort of glorious victory for the Plavaan.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raging Gene Ray
some sort of glorious victory for the Plavaan.
Wouldn't it be, though? I mean, whether by choice or coincidence, running from that raging mob - in this scenario, representative of the indoctrinated masses - and living to tell the tale would definitely constitute having successfully fought the power in my book. Once word gets around that one has gotten away with resisting his or her lot in life, these things have a way of swiftly and brutally righting themselves.
Janine's really got to work on her tact. Like a lot. :smallsigh:
And I loved how Remus and Fir frowned at her for that. You know you're quite wrong when the dog disapproves. :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raging Gene Ray
Isn't that what she's doing in the last panel? Seriously, though, Salblaze (the whole reason for Astrid's hatred of Plavaans) was only on loan from Tiamat and presumably had been HER ally for much longer (I'm assuming Tiamat is still female, but non-Evil in Coffee's cosmology). So where's Tiamat's reaction? Shouldn't Tinder have more reason to hate Plavaan's than Janine?
Also, I know I've said this before, but Janine's hatred actually seems rational to me, given the fact that Plavaan's worship the gods that slaughtered her goddesses ally who had done no wrong and was, in fact, coming to BLESS their lands (still, the Plavaan's seem to have ended up with the most fertile land despite not having that blessing).
If it is just one big misunderstanding, why not just pull out the Book of Rockwell, the orc god (which, I assume, has a down-homey picture of quaint country-folks doing quaint country-folksy things on its cover) and point to the passage that says they thought it was an invasion or something? Then she can post it in the town square one Saturday evening and there would be much less reason for the Church of Astrid to hate them.
I know you've already pointed out that parts of this post were written mostly so that you had an opportunity to make puns (I'm dense enough not to have been able to pick out these puns yet specifically :smalltongue:) but I thought I'd throw in my two cents anyhow...
Re: Tinder/Tiamat: I don't know how Tiamat's followers feel about the plavaan in general but religious stances aside I imagine a lot of dragons would tend towards siding with the plavaan here given the way the whole Tinder arc went down. If non-evil chromatics are a possibility in this setting but this wasn't recognised by any of the party then assuming that 'all green dragons are evil' is a common opinion isn't too far a stretch and nor is assuming that Tinder's was a completely isolated case. Groups that are discriminated against often have a degree of empathy for one another and even evil dragons might be irked by the fact that they're assumed to be evil just because of their species even if they do happen to be evil since in this setting species probably has little to do with their alignment. Regarding Tinder's specific feelings about the plavaan it should probably be remembered that Tinder lost his family violently to adventurers at a very young age. We know he's known about the plavaan's situation for some time because he asks Lloyd during the battle if the Alvaan plains weren't enough for him so it's possible that Tinder identifies with the plavaan as fellow victims of speciesim. But the fact that Tinder lost his family so young also seems to have meant that afterwards he essentially raised himself so he's not likely to have had a lot of religious infuence on his life. His parents may have taught him Tiamat's teachings before their deaths but many people lose their religious faith after or during wars and other horrific events because it can be hard to believe a benevolent deity would allow these things to happen to their followers. So in short, for all I know, you could be right, Tiamat's followers might be anti-plavaan, or certain sects of them might be, but Tinder's not necessarily a devout worshiper of Tiamat.
As for the plavaan people giving their side of the story regarding the death of Salblaze I'd imagine that some of them have probably tried at various points. The thing is that in a place like Kago, the state would probably be working pretty hard to stamp these dissidents out and stop such explanations reaching civilians. Many officials of Kago have probably heard a plavaan side of the argument but having already chosen their scapegoat they'd either deliberately ignore it or be too persuaded by their own argument/unwilling to admit to themselves they've done wrong to believe it. Even outside of Kago itself, knowing the plavaan side of the story doesn't necessarily help: convicted felons will often protest their innocence, that doesn't mean they're always telling the truth, and explanations etc. can easily be made up after the fact. Sometimes it's just a question of who to believe. Perhaps if the most persistent descriptions of the plavaan give them negative reputations and you don't know any personally the defence that 'they thought they were under attack' sounds rather weak.
...I've probably rambled for long enough now, but before I go: great update, Coffee. I thought Serrin's reaction was very good and liked Tinder's attempt to calm her down. I did kind of wonder how Lloyd thought Tinder was supposed to get Fir off of him *whilst* he was subdueing Serrin though - unless he meant for Tinder to calm Serrin down faster which would calm Fir down too? It can be hard to pay attention to all the details when you have an angry cat near your face though I guess. [/unreasonably long post]
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
This has probably already been pointed out, but Janine has two sets of eyebrows in the second to last panel.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eleanor_Rigby
It can be hard to pay attention to all the details when you have an angry cat near your face though I guess.
Quoted for truth. xP
Yeah, awesome comic. Can't wait for the next, as always. xD
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cizak
This has probably already been pointed out, but Janine has two sets of eyebrows in the second to last panel.
It has been mentioned, and explained at the top of the discussion page by Coffee. Personally I think I would have just chosen one of the two expressions, or better still, created a custom expression for the situation. Still, Coffee's choice says nothing if not 'conflicted'.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RdMarquis
I know this is a pretty serious moment, but I find it funny that Tinder is still holding Serrin when the comic ends.
Well, it looks like team cohesion has taken a blow after Lloyd's flashback. The story probably hasn't developed enough for them to split up, but I'm thinking it'll take some time or an important challenge for them to fully trust each other again.
Actually, he put her down in the last panel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
Coffee, if this setting is ever playable, my first reaction would be to make some sort of goblin who did go outside on the Day of Ascent.
and survived. :smallcool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HalfTangible
What makes you so sure the goblin would be trying to fix it? If you've got an angry mob on your ass, you ain't gonna try calming them down. You're going to RUN.
If you want a Discworld equivalent, imagine a troll walking in the dwarven parts of Ankh-Morpork (Or vice-versa) on the anniversary of Koom Valley. Before the events of Thud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eleanor_Rigby
I know you've already pointed out that parts of this post were written mostly so that you had an opportunity to make puns (I'm dense enough not to have been able to pick out these puns yet specifically :smalltongue:) but I thought I'd throw in my two cents anyhow...
Re: Tinder/Tiamat: I don't know how Tiamat's followers feel about the plavaan in general but religious stances aside I imagine a lot of dragons would tend towards siding with the plavaan here given the way the whole Tinder arc went down. If non-evil chromatics are a possibility in this setting but this wasn't recognised by any of the party then assuming that 'all green dragons are evil' is a common opinion isn't too far a stretch and nor is assuming that Tinder's was a completely isolated case. Groups that are discriminated against often have a degree of empathy for one another and even evil dragons might be irked by the fact that they're assumed to be evil just because of their species even if they do happen to be evil since in this setting species probably has little to do with their alignment. Regarding Tinder's specific feelings about the plavaan it should probably be remembered that Tinder lost his family violently to adventurers at a very young age. We know he's known about the plavaan's situation for some time because he asks Lloyd during the battle if the Alvaan plains weren't enough for him so it's possible that Tinder identifies with the plavaan as fellow victims of speciesim. But the fact that Tinder lost his family so young also seems to have meant that afterwards he essentially raised himself so he's not likely to have had a lot of religious infuence on his life. His parents may have taught him Tiamat's teachings before their deaths but many people lose their religious faith after or during wars and other horrific events because it can be hard to believe a benevolent deity would allow these things to happen to their followers. So in short, for all I know, you could be right, Tiamat's followers might be anti-plavaan, or certain sects of them might be, but Tinder's not necessarily a devout worshiper of Tiamat.
As for the plavaan people giving their side of the story regarding the death of Salblaze I'd imagine that some of them have probably tried at various points. The thing is that in a place like Kago, the state would probably be working pretty hard to stamp these dissidents out and stop such explanations reaching civilians. Many officials of Kago have probably heard a plavaan side of the argument but having already chosen their scapegoat they'd either deliberately ignore it or be too persuaded by their own argument/unwilling to admit to themselves they've done wrong to believe it. Even outside of Kago itself, knowing the plavaan side of the story doesn't necessarily help: convicted felons will often protest their innocence, that doesn't mean they're always telling the truth, and explanations etc. can easily be made up after the fact. Sometimes it's just a question of who to believe. Perhaps if the most persistent descriptions of the plavaan give them negative reputations and you don't know any personally the defence that 'they thought they were under attack' sounds rather weak.
...I've probably rambled for long enough now, but before I go: great update, Coffee. I thought Serrin's reaction was very good and liked Tinder's attempt to calm her down. I did kind of wonder how Lloyd thought Tinder was supposed to get Fir off of him *whilst* he was subdueing Serrin though - unless he meant for Tinder to calm Serrin down faster which would calm Fir down too? It can be hard to pay attention to all the details when you have an angry cat near your face though I guess. [/unreasonably long post]
Excellent analysis, and you got most of it. And Lloyd meant the second thing, although the thing with the cat is most certainly true! :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CoffeeIncluded
Actually, he put her down in the last panel.
I was going to say that it looked like that was the case in my earlier post but I'd already written so much I thought I'd better leave it to someone else! The question is why did he put her down in the last panel? Because he thought she was calm enough at that point not to lash out at Lloyd physically or because he needed at least one hand free for face palming after hearing Janine's reaction? :smallbiggrin: (Cue two or three people posting 'face-palm' images (a prediction, not a suggestion:smallwink:))
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raging Gene Ray
How? By stealth? That sounds like a pointless act if nobody knows about it but you. By force? Now you've given them a LEGITIMATE reason to hate goblins. By diplomacy? That's a victory...unless you were just preaching to the converted anyway.
not stealth. not force. not diplomacy.
just going outside, saying "hi everyone!"
then giving them the wildest most outrageous chase ever as they demolish everything in the way trying to get to you, all the while remaining juuuuust out of reach, keeping up the chase until its at the end of the day, they are all tired and had destroyed most of the town by themselves while you haven't done anything. you smile, then walk out of town, making the mob feel silly.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
I wonder of Serrin would be so fond of Tia if she knew what the girl was capable of. I wonder especially what would happen if Serrin met Deirdre...
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Asta Kask
I wonder of Serrin would be so fond of Tia if she knew what the girl was capable of. I wonder especially what would happen if Serrin met Deirdre...
:smalleek:
NO!
Just... No. :smalleek:
(cuddles Serrin protectively)
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
I think Deirdre's from another continuity. So obviously THAT would never happen. It would be as silly as having the Doctor meet one of his previous incarnations. Or future.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Asta Kask
I think Deirdre's from another continuity. So obviously THAT would never happen. It would be as silly as having the Doctor meet one of his previous incarnations. Or future.
:smallconfused: Not really unless one of the regular eleven met Peter Cushing's Doctor. WH, PT, JP, TB, PD, CB, SM, PM, CE, DT and MS are all from the same continuity whereas Tiasal seems to have several continuities from what I've read, which Deirdre only comes into some of. I'm pretty sure that Tia in Murphy's Law counts as yet another continuity anyhow seeing as none of WaterSmurf's ever seem to mention being set in Aequar except probably the one-shot she wrote for Coffee specifically.
Your example is more like saying that Lexington will never appear in Murphy's Law outside of flashbacks because he is from an earlier period of the story.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
i never knew that Jannine had two eyebrows and a unibrow :P
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
If i was Lloyd i would thank Janine forstealing the negative thunder:smallsmile:
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lix Lorn
Which has happened.
I know. I was being snarcastic. :)
Off to the Crack Forum!!! :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
not stealth. not force. not diplomacy.
just going outside, saying "hi everyone!"
then giving them the wildest most outrageous chase ever as they demolish everything in the way trying to get to you, all the while remaining juuuuust out of reach, keeping up the chase until its at the end of the day, they are all tired and had destroyed most of the town by themselves while you haven't done anything. you smile, then walk out of town, making the mob feel silly.
And then they send thirty paladins to hunt you down for causing so much damage. Doesn't matter that it was their own rabid intolerance, or that they actually did the damage.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Something that I just noticed Coffee, since the Tinder arc, the strip has been much more focused on plot development and exposition than the actual jokes (kinda like what happened with Oots but much faster).
The rules-related jokes has been much more scarce.
Not that it is bad, just something I noticed.
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Re: Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!
Tia's just a cameo here, guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dusk Eclipse
Something that I just noticed Coffee, since the Tinder arc, the strip has been much more focused on plot development and exposition than the actual jokes (kinda like what happened with Oots but much faster).
The rules-related jokes has been much more scarce.
Not that it is bad, just something I noticed.
Yeah, I can't just force jokes in. If I can fit in a joke or something funny, I'll do it. If not, I can't. The story's the most important thing here. And I was never really one for rules-related jokes anyway.
Also, here's something slightly different, but still on topic: Today in class I figured out the basic political system of Runite.
Runite's governmental structure is odd; it's a bit of a cross between a plutocratic oligarchy (rule by the wealthy few) and a representative democracy (the people elect others to represent them in government rather than directly participating in government themselves).
The parliament is made of two houses, the lower house and the upper house. The representatives of the lower house are directly elected by all eligible citizens of Runite (To be eligible you must be a citizen, a legal adult, mentally capable of sound judgment, and pass a wealth and/or property requirement (only one is necessary)). The lower house introduces legislation and nominates magistrates (judges).
The upper house is filled with guild leaders and the richest and most influential people of Runitian society. This includes not only business leaders, but also religious leaders. For example, three people in the upper house could be the local head of the Astridian Church, the president of a large and influential society, and Dagan Quilla, since he controls quite a bit of the shipping industry, as well as land trade. They vote on the legislation and magistrates that the lower house introduce, and are able to change the tax and tariff rates (Though if any drastic changes are made, then both houses have to vote on it).
Every year, each house selects one person from their house to represent Runite at the Kyarian Council (2 Runitian representatives in total). Elections for the lower house are held every other year; seats in the upper house are usually held for life, but many people in the upper house pass the seat to a successor (Usually their child) once they get very old. If someone wishes to be a part of the upper house, he (or she!) must petition and the upper house votes on it. If the person is accepted into the upper house, he will take his position the following year. If his application is rejected, he may not reapply until the following year. If a person from either house is found to be unfit to serve, he (or she!) can be impeached; if the impeachment passes, then the seat will be passed to the next eligible member of the family/organization (if the upper house), or a special election will be held (if the lower house).