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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Takver
Lien's parents were fishers, right, and not some kind of Noble Fishers? So in between O-Chul's story and Lien's story, Shojo managed to change the Sapphire Guard to the point where they were actively recruiting outside of nobility.
I completely missed that. I love how O-Chul had such a massive effect on the group. They certainly needed it.
Also, I'd say between 0 and 1. Mostly because I like how then the numbers line up. That's how I'm ordering it.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Grey_Wolf_c
The jewel eventually falls out and another one grows in its place. Seems a good reason to keep one around (as long as the food you feed it is less than the value of the jewel)
Grey Wolf
Oh, I thought you had to be a wizard. I was thinking maybe there was another reason, but I guess having to run Gobbotopia, he could use extra sources of income...
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Originally Posted by
0Megabyte
Soooo... once I get my physical copy, where SHOULD I place it among my set? My current order is 1, 0, 2, -1, 3, 4, D, and 5. But really, where should 1/2 go?
My order is similar to yours, and I placed it after 5. To me it makes the most sense because the stories were written assuming you had read the other books. Even the preface refers to events that happened in book 5.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Toad
I agree with everything you said except this. I really feel that sells Hinjo seriously short, considering he's one of the most multidimensional characters in my eyes.
On the one hand, you have the man who strives to be the shining paragon of Paladins that O-Chul has shown him throughout HPGHS, and you see how he pulls it off in moments where he tries to talk down Miko after she killed the only family he had. That kind of moment showed just how selfless, honest, and good he is, that he could keep calm and strive to do the right thing without judging her for taking away the only family he had.
On the other, he's Shojo's nephew and the new ruler of Azure City: he's shown himself to have Shojo's cunning as a leader. He's deceptive to Elan in DStP in order to take down Kubota, he guilt trips Roy into being his bodyguard and bends the laws in The Trial of Belkar Bitterleaf: Abridged version.
With Hinjo, I see a duality and confliction of how to be the best Paladin he can be, and the leader he needs to be. When Daigo tells him "We need a leader more than a paladin" (paraphrase) as he's leaving Azure City (read: a not paladin act), you can see how torn he is.
O Chul represents the perfect Paladin. Miko represents the failure Paladin. Lien represents the human paladin, and Shojo undoubtably represents the pragmatic leader. Hinjo's not a stereotype, he's a deconstruction of how those positions interact, and arguably the most human and torn of the bunch. That he's also the one thrust in charge just makes his conflict all the sweeter.
(He's also my favorite character. If not blatantly obvious.)
Inasmuch as I paraphrased the characters into roles, I was hardly minimizing their depths. In fact, I agree with you and feel your argument only strengthens my putting him in that category. What fairy tale character doesn't have to strive with conflicting agendas and terrible enemies and struggle to make the best decisions?
Have you ever watched "Once Upon a Time?" Charming is no paragon. He makes foolish decisions, he's shortsighted, and he trusts the wrong people. But he's always trying. And as the deva told Roy, that counts for a lot.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Gorgon_Heap
Have you ever watched "Once Upon a Time?"
I was with you until here. Good gods that show was bad.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Hah! Fair enough. It wasn't great, but binging something for a couple days and forgetting about it is just so easy these days. And it had a couple moments I appreciated.
Though looking back we weren't the target audience, so hey.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Gorgon_Heap
Have you ever watched "Once Upon a Time?" ....
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Originally Posted by
Peelee
I was with you until here. Good gods that show was bad.
Personally I enjoyed it early on, until it became clear they were going to cram every single Disney franchise character ever into the story somehow.
Hey,.... now that Disney owns the rights to Star Wars, does that technically make Leia a Disney Princess? You see where I'm going here...? That could really revitalize that series...
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Darth Paul
In a bonus strip in Paladin Blues, which I will spoiler here,
Spoiler
Show
Sangwaan predicted that Belkar would save Hinjo's life twice. Many forum members have argued the second time has already happened indirectly somehow, but I disagree. I think Belkar is going to be in a position to directly save Hinjo's life once more
which argues for Hinjo playing a major role in the main story ahead... somehow.
Actually it was Don't Split the Party. I'm ambivalent to the idea that the second time was #455.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Gift Jeraff
Actually it was Don't Split the Party. I'm ambivalent to the idea that the second time was
#455.
I'm significantly less ambivalent, given that it assumes Belkar took out a few goblins who would have killed an otherwise-unharmed Hinjo, and the narrative futility of tossing in that "will save your life twice" prophecy if the second was so farfetched and subtle and shortly after the first to begin with.
Far as I'm concerned, the comments about Hinjo still playing a major role confirms that second one hasn't happened yet, but understand that this will not be a consensus agreement.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Wow that was quite a read! The introduction was enough to get me hooked, and I felt as though the stories got progressively better throughout the book. There’s a lot to unpack in that last story, but suffice it to say that it more than solidifies O-Chul as one of my favorite characters and was well worth the wait. Also, the scene with the ettin may have actually been the most hilarious thing I’ve read in a long while.
Also, thanks to you sleuths who mentioned what the creature in Scruff and Tumble was.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Every time I read a comment here that mentions the ettin, I brace myself for a repeat of the original Scar thread. That it continues to be unfounded brings me great joy.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Peelee
Every time I read a comment here that mentions the ettin, I brace myself for a repeat of the original Scar thread. That it continues to be unfounded brings me great joy.
Ettin was justified about his claim of innocence.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Well, some of those people copped permabans.
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Originally Posted by
Gift Jeraff
Interesting that Thog knew Nale when they were both children. Exotic child slave given to Nale as a birthday present? Adopted son of shoulderpads man?
If I remember the ages form the cast lists right, Nale was like a half-decade older than Thog. They weren't kids together. Likely Nale hired him as muscle for when he tried to overthrow the Empress of Blood.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Rogar Demonblud
Well, some of those people copped permabans.
If I remember the ages form the cast lists right, Nale was like a half-decade older than Thog. They weren't kids together. Likely Nale hired him as muscle for when he tried to overthrow the Empress of Blood.
Er, isn't a half decade just five years? You can totally be kids together when you have a five year age difference. Although I guess it also depends on how quickly orcs age.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Chiming in on the "Where to put it?" debate -- really, the whole point of the numbering is that it can go wherever the heck you want it to. But I've got mine in straight numerical order, so between 0 and 1. It seemed the right place in terms of balancing between prologue and main story.
On the Sapphire Guard recruiting commoners: not only did they start recruiting outside the nobility, but with the devastation in the throne room, commoners are now actually a majority. (Do we know if Than was a noble or not? Regardless, with his death it's Lien, O-Chul, and Hinjo: clear commoner majority.)
I, too, rejoice that the ettin debates have not raised their ugly heads again.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Rogar Demonblud
If I remember the ages form the cast lists right, Nale was like a half-decade older than Thog. They weren't kids together. Likely Nale hired him as muscle for when he tried to overthrow the Empress of Blood.
I don't think that can be right. Elan and Nale were definitely 21 at the beginning of the comic, and given Rich's sensibilities about kids and teenagers, 16 seems young for Thog. But I checked my cast page for NCftPB and he's got his age listed as ???, so who knows.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Publication order here: 1, 0, 2, -1, 3, 4, D, 5, ½.
(Also, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe is the first Narnia book, so there.)
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Speaking of numbers, is anyone else slightly frustrated that it's "1/2" rather than "0.5"? Can't explain why it annoys me, either. Possibly because I keep reading it as 1 1/2, but since I have them in publication order it doesn't matter anyway. *shrugs*
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
I just realized the greater significance of Hinjo and O-Chul sharing a drink.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Lissou
Speaking of numbers, is anyone else slightly frustrated that it's "1/2" rather than "0.5"? Can't explain why it annoys me, either. Possibly because I keep reading it as 1 1/2, but since I have them in publication order it doesn't matter anyway. *shrugs*
I prefer 1/2 to .5, actually.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Lissou
Oh, I thought you had to be a wizard. I was thinking maybe there was another reason, but I guess having to run Gobbotopia, he could use extra sources of income...
Looking at the immediate surroundings of the room (open books, notes, a chart on the wall) it seems quite apparent he was studying the creature and doing research, although what specific insight he hoped to glean from his rather heartless science project isn't as clear and probably won't ever be. But it's behavior very much of a piece with this whole spectacle. He's curious about magical phenomena and only slightly burdened by moral concerns regarding the subjects he uses to learn more.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
For what it's worth, I order my books "-1, 0, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, 4, D, 5"
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Originally Posted by
Peelee
Every time I read a comment here that mentions the ettin, I brace myself for a repeat of the original Scar thread. That it continues to be unfounded brings me great joy.
After having quickly taken a peak through that thread...I concur.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Takver
I don't think that can be right. Elan and Nale were definitely 21 at the beginning of the comic, and given Rich's sensibilities about kids and teenagers, 16 seems young for Thog. But I checked my cast page for NCftPB and he's got his age listed as ???, so who knows.
We do. I checked and War and XPs lists Thog as 16.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Rogar Demonblud
We do. I checked and War and XPs lists Thog as 16.
Oh, huh. Thanks. That does surprise me.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Takver
Oh, huh. Thanks. That does surprise me.
I don't think it's that weird. 16 for a half-orc is like 18 for a human being. Thog's an adult, even if he doesn't really seem like it.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Somehow, I never caught that the Mik-Guh Fan(!) has the classic image of Alfred Hitchcock on it. Fantastic.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Someone should tell Thog that some cats do play fetch. Mine will bring a ball near me, drop it, and chirp at me when she wants to play.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Finally able to read the book again. I like how many Azurites have cats. Lien's parents have one sleeping just outside their door.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Lien as a teenager ... would have been the baby sitter from someplace starting with 'h'. Which one would depend upon you.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
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Originally Posted by
Windscion
Lien as a teenager ... would have been the baby sitter from someplace starting with 'h'. Which one would depend upon you.
House on the Prairie? :smallconfused:
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Got it this weekend, but took a bit to be able to read it b/c a friend was in town.
I loved every part of this. O-Chul's story was, deservedly, the star of the show - learning about his backstory was incredible, and explained so much. I loved loved loved all of the characters introduced there, too. It's a shame the Supreme Leader didn't get a chance to reign any longer... I question if he might be Jirix, but at the same time, I feel like Jirix is a bit... meaner than the one we saw in this story? Could be wrong, though. (I do feel like the final "lessons Miko has learned" was a bit on the nose, but the rest of the story was more than enough to make up for it.)
Mr. Scruffy's story gave me entirely too many emotions. I have no particular affection for Belkar on his own behalf, but on Mr. Scruffy's? I'm gonna bawl when he finally dies.
Therkla's story was fun, too. Always love seeing the "a small favor" sort of chains spiralling, heh, and it was fun to see more Therkla.
Lien's story was short, but sweet. Her just wailing on the witch who was entrapping children was great, and I loved seeing how she got that ring of water-breathing.
I also really loved the story with Daigo and Kazumi trying to find a home for the ghost servant -- as well as the solution they came up with. Also, it took me a bit, but I just realized that Hinjo's reference here to not throwing as many bombs as his uncle did, but aiming them well, was a callback/forward to Shojo's line about the non-noble O-Chul joining the Guard as a bomb to shake up the ranks.
And finally, to cement the idea that I am not reviewing these in anything resembling the correct order, the Thog introduction was hilarious.
All in all, well worth the money I spent. Thank you, Giant!
EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peelee
I prefer 1/2 to .5, actually.
Same. The decimal point in .5 is too easy to miss and read as just plain 5. The 1 1/2 mixup is less of an issue, comparatively.
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Originally Posted by
infinityman
Somehow, I never caught that the Mik-Guh Fan(!) has the classic image of Alfred Hitchcock on it. Fantastic.
I only just now caught that "Mik-Guh Fan" is a play on McGuffin.
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Originally Posted by
Throknor
Someone should tell Thog that some cats do play fetch. Mine will bring a ball near me, drop it, and chirp at me when she wants to play.
My cat used to do this! He fell out of the habit though, sadly. Shame -- it was stinking adorable.
As for the book ordering discussion: ordering books on a shelf sounds like a thing for people who have their life way more together than I do. But for what it's worth, I'd argue: if you're the type of person who likes to reread books arbitrarily, in no particular order, then order them numerically (-1, 0, 1/2, 1, etc., with D on either end) so that it's easy to find the one you feel like rereading. If you like to reread in order, then store them in the order you like to read them in. I would argue mostly publication order for rereading order, as chronological order tends to jump around too much in terms of writing quality (early OOTS still has its charm, but going from SoD to DCF is... whiplash-y), but would tend to stick the Dragon compilation on either end so that it's not interrupting your narrative flow. If you really want to go with the books in chronological order, however, then I would actually argue that you should go with the latest comic in the chronology (e.g., the Katos' island adventure) when determining where it goes, then treat the rest as flashbacks going farther and farther back.