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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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Originally Posted by
Closet_Skeleton
No you don't. If at one initiative order/turn every nob is wounded once and 5 fail their save and 5 pass, then when next initiative/turn only 5 get wounded there's nothing that makes you take all those 5 wound on the 5 guys who haven't been hurt yet.
True. But you still need to allocate them in the first round.
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Originally Posted by
Closet_Skeleton
You don't play tyranids do you?
Well, Heavy Venom Cannons, Carnifexes, and the Doom of Mal'antai ought to do the trick.
But you're right, I don't. I was more referring to IG, SM, CSM, Tau, Eldar and sometimes Necrons.
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Originally Posted by
Closet_Skeleton
The problem with nobs is that they pretty much need power claws, so if you're an idiot with them its easy to see them all die before attacking.
Sheesh, not all of them. 2-3 in a squad, max.
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Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Minor flaw in that plan, is that Nob Bikers have permanent cover saves. They're really that good. :smallwink:
Which is what the second Vindicator is for.
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Originally Posted by
banjo1985
I'm guessing that 10 Nobz or 5 Nob Bikerz all kitted out with different wargear must cost 400+ points? No matter how good they are, that must make them a risk to field in anything other than near Apocalypse pointed games?
Yes. My ten Nobs in a Wagon with Warboss costs around 600 points.
I still take it, though. It's really very little different from like 5 Hammernators in a Land Raider with Lysander. Except they're Troops.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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Originally Posted by
Ninja Chocobo
Minor point: Killing off five Nobs really isn't going to help a Necron's chances agaisnt them by much.
Fair point, it was probably a bad example. Of course, I wouldn't want to let them get that close in the first place. :smalltongue:
There is something to be said for multi-wound models in units costing an absolute fortune for the rules quirk to come into play at all. I'm not an Ork player, but I'm guessing that 10 Nobz or 5 Nob Bikerz all kitted out with different wargear must cost 400+ points? No matter how good they are, that must make them a risk to field in anything other than near Apocalypse pointed games?
EDIT - @Cheesegear Oh shush, for a moment I may have actually looked like I knew what I was talking about! :smalltongue:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
banjo1985
EDIT - @Cheesegear Oh shush, for a moment I may have actually looked like I knew what I was talking about! :smalltongue:
And of course we can't have that!
But I really don't see a problem with two Vindicators. I mean, its like one vindicator, only twice as much dakka!
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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Originally Posted by
Shas'aia Toriia
And of course we can't have that!
But I really don't see a problem with two Vindicators. I mean, its like one vindicator, only twice as much dakka!
Well, as we all know, the answer to any problem is always: More Dakka!
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Chaos Vindicators with Daemonic Possession = :smallamused:
There's nothing wrong with two Vindicators, but as I've just been enlightened, they aren't quite as effective against Nob Bikerz as I may have thought. Permanent cover saves...that's why the Necrontyr need to find those antique throwing warscythes they must have hiding away somewhere. :smallwink:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ninja Chocobo
Well, Heavy Venom Cannons, Carnifexes, and the Doom of Mal'antai ought to do the trick.
But you're right, I don't. I was more referring to IG, SM, CSM, Tau, Eldar and sometimes Necrons.
Carnifexes are overpointed and will die in seconds to power claws, the doom is a special character some people don't like because he's cheese and most tyranid armies have one or two heavy venom cannons at most. The only things that can take heavy venom cannons are carnifexes (only one per brood, over-costed), hive tyrants (an HQ choice) and harpies (crap, nobody uses them).
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Just had a 2 on 2 750 point battle last night. Me and my cousin as vanilla Space Marines versus my uncles playing as Space Wolves and Blood Angels. I'll probably write a battle report when I get the time, but for now a few observations. Sorry if some of these are blatantly obvious to some (or most) of you, but I really am still just a noob.:smalltongue:
1. Fast Vehicles are scary. We were facing two Baal Predators and two Blood Angel Razorbacks with a Lascannon and Twin-Linked Plasmas. Their maneuverability and ability to move flat out is nothing short of amazing.
2. I've always known that Assault Cannons were scary, but I've never fully appreciated them until I saw a Baal Predator blow up a fellow Predator with a couple of rending hits.
3. Thunderwolves are scary, but the fact that they are so expensive will mean that your opponent will only ever have a few of them. At least, in low point battles.:smalltongue:
4. Librarians need Storm Shields. Also, Gating out of assault and then using Avenger is hilarious. :smallamused:
5. Master of the Forge with a Conversion Beamer is not as effective as we thought it would be.
6. Scouts with Sniper Rifles are very underwhelming against MEQ's. Or maybe I just need more of them?:smallconfused: Also, taking Telion is really really tempting.
7. Vanilla Terminators rule. Also, I did not know that you could only take either the Assault Cannon or the Cyclone Missile Launcher, not both on a single Terminator. What would be the better choice? :smallconfused:
That's it for now! I'll edit if I think of any more. Guys, please feel free to comment and make suggestions.:smallbiggrin:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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Originally Posted by
Razaele
7. Vanilla Terminators rule. Also, I did not know that you could only take either the Assault Cannon or the Cyclone Missile Launcher, not both on a single Terminator. What would be the better choice? :smallconfused:
All terminators rule. Unless you really want the long range support, the AssCan is better in nearly every situation. Plus the short range (as far as heavy weapons goes) doesn't mean much seeing as Terminators are relentless and only have 24" on Storm Bolter too.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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Originally Posted by
Razaele
I've always known that Assault Cannons were scary, but I've never fully appreciated them until I saw a Baal Predator blow up a fellow Predator with a couple of rending hits.
Wait 'til you see an Assault Cannon take out a Wraithlord in one round. :smallwink:
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Thunderwolves are scary, but the fact that they are so expensive will mean that your opponent will only ever have a few of them. At least, in low point battles. :smalltongue:
Yeah. In theory. Come back when you've just played against 15 Thunderwolves with Wolf Claws and Storm Shields, and the odd Thunder Hammer.
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Librarians need Storm Shields. Also, Gating out of assault and then using Avenger is hilarious. :smallamused:
Ultionis says 'Hello!' on the Storm Shield count. Anyone who can take a Storm Shield, should.
Did you realise that you could Gate out of Assault before I mentioned it a few days ago? Or did I teach you something (by accident) again?
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Master of the Forge with a Conversion Beamer is not as effective as we thought it would be.
It's effective if it's on a Bike. Was it on a Bike?
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Scouts with Sniper Rifles are very underwhelming against MEQ's. Or maybe I just need more of them? :smallconfused: Also, taking Telion is really really tempting.
Rifles are underwhelming against MEQs and Fearless Hordes. Unless you take lots of them. Are you taking lots of them? Telion is a waste. He's good in theory. But, wouldn't you prefer a Land Speeder Storm, a regular Land Speeder or Attack Bike with Multi-Melta?
Rifles work 'best' against small units that rely on good armour saves (like Terminators) where their Rending shots will have the most effect. And on high-Toughness targets where they will always wound on a 4+.
Rifles also work 'best' in Combat Squads (void if Annihilation), as each unit with Rifles causes Pinning tests. You can force one squad to take 3 or 4 Pinning checks in a single round (more, but you shouldn't have to).
If a unit has been Pinned, stop wasting your fire on them. They're not going to do a thing. Shoot something else.
Sniper Rifles allow saves. And Sniper Rifles still wound T3 models on a 4+. They're less effective, offensively. However, against Imperial Guard, or similar, the reason that they're good is their battlefield control. Like D&D Wizards.
Say you have 40 Scouts, and you're not playing Annhilation. Split these into Combat Squads.
Squad 1 fires. Are you pinned yet? No.
Squad 2 fires. Are you pinned yet? No.
Squad 3 fires. Are you pinned yet? No.
Squad 4 fires. Are you pinned yet? Yes.
Squad 5 fires at a new target. Are you pinned yet? Yes.
Squad 6 fires at a new target. Are you pinned yet? No.
Squad 7 fires. Are you pinned yet? Yes.
Squad 8 fires. Are you pinned yet? No.
So, for the low, low cost of 560 points, you have 8 Infiltrating Scoring units. 600 points if you want Heavy Weapons (you do). The other ~1000 points of your army begins firing at anything that isn't Pinned.
A 60-Scout 1750 point army earned me a Forced Rewrite. You're not allowed to play with that crap.
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Vanilla Terminators rule. Also, I did not know that you could only take either the Assault Cannon or the Cyclone Missile Launcher, not both on a single Terminator. What would be the better choice?
It depends on your opponents.
If you regularly play Marines, the Assault Cannon.
If you regularly play Hordes, the Cyclone for double Frag Markers.
The Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer work off of Deep Strikes. Don't take CMLs if you're Deep Striking.
Use magnets. :smallwink:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Wait 'til you see an Assault Cannon take out a Wraithlord in one round. :smallwink:
I'll try to pick a fight with an Eldar player next week.:smalltongue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Yeah. In theory. Come back when you've just played against 15 Thunderwolves with Wolf Claws and Storm Shields, and the odd Thunder Hammer.
Yeah, I can actually already picture how difficult it will be to take them down. On the off chance that I do fight against such a force, what is the best way to deal with them?:smallconfused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Did you realise that you could Gate out of Assault before I mentioned it a few days ago? Or did I teach you something (by accident) again?
Actually, I've known that you could Gate out of Assault for a while now.:smalltongue: I think I stumbled on that fact while I was reading up on Librarian Powers on a forum somewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
It's effective if it's on a Bike. Was it on a Bike?
No it wasn't. I suggested it to my cousin, but at the time he had neither the model nor the points for it. The main problem was that we were fighting in an urban setting, and both of our enemies were moving towards us every turn.
Also, on a related note. At the gaming club that we play in, the tables are about 60x48. Is this standard?:smallconfused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Rifles are underwhelming against MEQs and Fearless Hordes. Unless you take lots of them. Are you taking lots of them? Telion is a waste. He's good in theory. But, wouldn't you prefer a Land Speeder Storm, a regular Land Speeder or Attack Bike with Multi-Melta?
I want to take lots of them. Sadly, I am on a limited budget so I cannot spam Scouts with Sniper Rifles for the time being. Maybe after I get a Battleforce, I'll start spamming them. And good point, 50 points can still be used for something else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Rifles work 'best' against small units that rely on good armour saves (like Terminators) where their Rending shots will have the most effect. And on high-Toughness targets where they will always wound on a 4+.
Rifles also work 'best' in Combat Squads (void if Annihilation), as each unit with Rifles causes Pinning tests. You can force one squad to take 3 or 4 Pinning checks in a single round (more, but you shouldn't have to).
If a unit has been Pinned, stop wasting your fire on them. They're not going to do a thing. Shoot something else.
Sniper Rifles allow saves. And Sniper Rifles still wound T3 models on a 4+. They're less effective, offensively. However, against Imperial Guard, or similar, the reason that they're good is their battlefield control. Like D&D Wizards.
Say you have 40 Scouts, and you're not playing Annhilation. Split these into Combat Squads.
Squad 1 fires. Are you pinned yet? No.
Squad 2 fires. Are you pinned yet? No.
Squad 3 fires. Are you pinned yet? No.
Squad 4 fires. Are you pinned yet? Yes.
Squad 5 fires at a new target. Are you pinned yet? Yes.
Squad 6 fires at a new target. Are you pinned yet? No.
Squad 7 fires. Are you pinned yet? Yes.
Squad 8 fires. Are you pinned yet? No.
So, for the low, low cost of 560 points, you have 8 Infiltrating Scoring units. 600 points if you want Heavy Weapons (you do). The other ~1000 points of your army begins firing at anything that isn't Pinned.
A 60-Scout 1750 point army earned me a Forced Rewrite. You're not allowed to play with that crap.
Understood.
...
Heh. I'd like to try out a 60 Scout army in the future, since everyone at my gaming club thinks that scouts are a waste of points. :smallcool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
It depends on your opponents.
If you regularly play Marines, the Assault Cannon.
If you regularly play Hordes, the Cyclone for double Frag Markers.
The Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer work off of Deep Strikes. Don't take CMLs if you're Deep Striking.
Use magnets. :smallwink:
Hmm. Well to be honest, a lot of the players at our gaming club are Space Marine players. Either way, the Assault Cannon appeals to me the most.:smallsmile:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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I'll try to pick a fight with an Eldar player next week.
Be warned that its a lot more likely for the Wraithlord to take your assult cannon out in a singel round :smallwink:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Razaele
Yeah, I can actually already picture how difficult it will be to take them down. On the off chance that I do fight against such a force, what is the best way to deal with them?:smallconfused:
Vindicators. Anything S10.
Unfortunately, since there's 15 (probably one is a Wolf Lord or some such), that means there's three Squads of them. You really can't do anything about it, and it's why Thunderwolf Spam is so good. The only thing that stops everyone from doing it, is just how hard Thunderwolves are to make. Let alone 15 (or more) of them.
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Also, on a related note. At the gaming club that we play in, the tables are about 60x48. Is this standard?:smallconfused:
Standard is 72x48", or 6x4'. You're playing on 5x4'. Which isn't too bad. You say you had a 2v2 750 Point battle, was that 750 each? For 1500? 5x4' should be fine.
However, if you were playing under 1000 points in total, per side, 4x4' is more than big enough.
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Heh. I'd like to try out a 60 Scout army in the future, since everyone at my gaming thinks that scouts are a waste of points. :smallcool:
Only because people don't use them right. Or aren't taking enough of them. Like I said, Sniper Rifles are pretty crap if you've only got one unit and/or not many of them. It's why I don't take units of 5 Rifles. Combat Squadding into units of 5 is different though, because you can still have a unit of 10 if you want it.
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Originally Posted by
Razaele
Hmm. Well to be honest, a lot of the players at our gaming club are Space Marine players. Either way, the Assault Cannon appeals to me the most. :smallsmile:
Excellent.
Sniper Rifles have a lot of trouble against Tyranids, Orks and Chaos Marines. However, if you also stack Thunderfire Cannons, Vindicators and/or Frag Missiles, the Tyranids and Orks aren't a problem.
Chaos Marines are tricky. Use Grey Knight Terminators. :smallamused:
Blood Angels (of course) can also be a problem if enough fail (pass?) their Red Thirst rolls. However, that's all chance-related and not inherent problem. Astorath can make things tricky.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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Originally Posted by
lord_khaine
Be warned that its a lot more likely for the Wraithlord to take your assult cannon out in a singel round :smallwink:
Be warned that my favorite thing about Wraithlords is that every time I've seen them in play, I've made a point of killing the Psyker that's keeping them running and then giggling like a child when the Wraithlords go stupid and stand there looking at the sky. :smallwink:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Razaele
Hmm. Well to be honest, a lot of the players at our every gaming club are Space Marine players.
Fixed it for you. :smalltongue:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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Originally Posted by
Winterwind
Fixed it for you. :smalltongue:
However, I can't be sure that the local gaming club is really like that, because I've never been.
Incidentally, it's really hard to try and work up the courage to go way out of your way to meet a bunch of strangers on the off chance of getting the occasional 40k/fantasy game in future when you're free on Thursdays.
Maybe I'll just work on having an army ready when the local convention thingy rolls around. Yeah, shock and awe on their asses :smallcool:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Vindicators. Anything S10.
Unfortunately, since there's 15 (probably one is a Wolf Lord or some such), that means there's three Squads of them. You really can't do anything about it, and it's why Thunderwolf Spam is so good. The only thing that stops everyone from doing it, is just how hard Thunderwolves are to make. Let alone 15 (or more) of them.
... I should start being afraid, now that my cousin has 10 of them. :smalleek: I sincerely hope that my Vindicators will be enough to take care of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Standard is 72x48", or 6x4'. You're playing on 5x4'. Which isn't too bad. You say you had a 2v2 750 Point battle, was that 750 each? For 1500? 5x4' should be fine.
However, if you were playing under 1000 points in total, per side, 4x4' is more than big enough.
Yes, we had 750 points each which gives us a total of 1500 points for each side. Also, can anyone give me tips on how to place cover on the battlefield? Specifically, so that both shooty armies and assault armies can fight each other fairly.
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Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Only because people don't use them right. Or aren't taking enough of them. Like I said, Sniper Rifles are pretty crap if you've only got one unit and/or not many of them. It's why I don't take units of 5 Rifles. Combat Squadding into units of 5 is different though, because you can still have a unit of 10 if you want it.
Good point. On another note, how many shots on average does it take to pin MEQ's?:smallconfused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Excellent.
Sniper Rifles have a lot of trouble against Tyranids, Orks and Chaos Marines. However, if you also stack Thunderfire Cannons, Vindicators and/or Frag Missiles, the Tyranids and Orks aren't a problem.
Chaos Marines are tricky. Use Grey Knight Terminators. :smallamused:
Hmm. But what happens if I have to resort to using just Vanilla Space Marines? Will Sternguards be enough to take on the Chaos Marines?:smallconfused:
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Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Blood Angels (of course) can also be a problem if enough fail (pass?) their Red Thirst rolls. However, that's all chance-related and not inherent problem. Astorath can make things tricky.
I should start reading the Blood Angels Codex.:smalltongue:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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Originally Posted by
Klose_the_Sith
However, I can't be sure that the local gaming club is really like that, because I've never been.
Incidentally, it's really hard to try and work up the courage to go way out of your way to meet a bunch of strangers on the off chance of getting the occasional 40k/fantasy game in future when you're free on Thursdays.
Maybe I'll just work on having an army ready when the local convention thingy rolls around. Yeah, shock and awe on their asses :smallcool:
Well, I perfectly understand that "hard to work up the courage"-part, considering I suffer from social phobia... and all I can say is, at least the people at my local shop are all very friendly and highly welcoming to a newcomer. And I have never failed to find someone to play with within five minutes when I wanted a game. If necessary, asking the GW employees to help you with finding someone can help.
So, what I'm saying is, there really is no reason to be afraid. :smallwink:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Be warned that my favorite thing about Wraithlords is that every time I've seen them in play, I've made a point of killing the Psyker that's keeping them running and then giggling like a child when the Wraithlords go stupid and stand there looking at the sky.
Ahh, no worries, i allways have a backup psyker, and its only a 1/6 chance anyway.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Winterwind
Well, I perfectly understand that "hard to work up the courage"-part, considering I suffer from social phobia... and all I can say is, at least the people at my local shop are all very friendly and highly welcoming to a newcomer. And I have never failed to find someone to play with within five minutes when I wanted a game. If necessary, asking the GW employees to help you with finding someone can help.
So, what I'm saying is, there really is no reason to be afraid. :smallwink:
Except that the gaming club don't meet at a games shop, but instead at a bridge club in a semi-dodgy suburb and I only know that they still exist because the convention they run is still around, their website implies a long-dead society.
So, yeah. If it was just a question of going into my local store than I wouldn't be that scared. However, I've NEVER seen a game of any kind of Warhammer played/set up at my LGS. So ... yeah :smalleek:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Razaele
Hmm. But what happens if I have to resort to using just Vanilla Space Marines? Will Sternguards be enough to take on the Chaos Marines?:smallconfused:
There isn't a whole lot that can tolerate AP 3 fire, but that which can, is going to make a mess of you. Ultimately, I think it comes down to what KIND of Chaos army you're dealing with. If it's Chaos undivided, then no, probably not; pretty sure Plague Marines are too tough, Noise Marines will template you to death, and Rubric Marines will probably weather it with their Invul save... and Khorne Berserkers will rip you to shreds in melee... and... crap...
Why are you using your Sternguards to shoot at other infantry? Needs more Thunderfire Cannon. :smallconfused:
EDIT: lord khaine - I've seen that one in six chance work in my favor enough to make it hilarious, and even then, if I killed one psyker, what's to say I can't kill the second one? :smallconfused:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Klose_the_Sith
Except that the gaming club don't meet at a games shop, but instead at a bridge club in a semi-dodgy suburb and I only know that they still exist because the convention they run is still around, their website implies a long-dead society.
So, yeah. If it was just a question of going into my local store than I wouldn't be that scared. However, I've NEVER seen a game of any kind of Warhammer played/set up at my LGS. So ... yeah :smalleek:
Ow. Okay, makes sense. :smallfrown:
Well, if your LGS sells Warhammer stuff, you could ask the owner/employees there whether they could help you get in touch with people who play anyway. Could be a way to find people without having to resort to your local underworld. :smallwink:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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EDIT: lord khaine - I've seen that one in six chance work in my favor enough to make it hilarious, and even then, if I killed one psyker, what's to say I can't kill the second one?
Generaly the 2 wraithlords the first psyker was powering :smalltongue:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Razaele
... I should start being afraid, now that my cousin has 10 of them. :smalleek: I sincerely hope that my Vindicators will be enough to take care of them.
Depends how he's set up the rest of the army. If he's got something else that can take care of your Vindicator (Long Fangs, Drop Hunters with Meltas, etc.), while his Thunderwolves run up the board, then you're in trouble.
You can't just say 'What can I use to kill Thunderwolves', because then your opponent can say 'What can I use to kill Vindicators', and then it follows on from there until you've got tailored lists. Which isn't cool.
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Also, can anyone give me tips on how to place cover on the battlefield? Specifically, so that both shooty armies and assault armies can fight each other fairly.
Make sure each side has equal amounts of terrain? I don't see what's so difficult about it. :smallconfused:
Also, a lot of games tend to have cover in DZ's, but none in the middle, leaving to 'hills and valley' games, or, one where if you try and leave your DZ, you just enter the Kill Zone in the middle. This is worse than having no cover in your DZ in the first place.
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Good point. On another note, how many shots on average does it take to pin MEQ's? :smallconfused:
On Ld9? Generally by the fourth test they'll fail. If you believe statistics - which I don't. However, if you've just shot four units' worth of Rifles into one squad, they shouldn't be alive anymore.
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But what happens if I have to resort to using just Vanilla Space Marines? Will Sternguards be enough to take on the Chaos Marines?:smallconfused:
MountainKing is pretty much correct. Except on the Plague Marines. With your 2+ wounding ammo, you should be fine. But, even then, they're still Marines with a 3+ save, and can't be Pinned.
Thousand Sons have their own AP3 ammo, and theirs' don't blow themselves up. When you fire your AP3 ammo at them, they've got a 4+ invulnerable, or cover. Whichever is better. And they can't be Pinned.
Berzerkers will Rhino Rush you. Sternguard can't really hurt vehicles without backup. But, like Vindicators vs. Thunderwolves, you can't assume that the Berzerkers wont have backup either. Berzerkers can't be Pinned. As an Assault unit, this is a problem.
Noise Marines will throw out AP3, Pinning Blast/Template weapons. And then Assault you. Sternguard kind of suck in Assault. Especially compared to CSMs (not Thousand Sons, but, why would your opponent Assault with 1K Sons when he can shoot you again, and again...). Can't be Pinned either.
Sternguard (and Rifles) can deal with Daemon Princes, and Obliterators. Not much else. And you're not going to win many games if you can't deal with basic Troop choices. Believe me, I've tried.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Razaele
Good point. On another note, how many shots on average does it take to pin MEQ's?:smallconfused:
One could put it this way - on Ld9, the probability of failing a single Pinning Test is precisely 1:6. So, ask yourself how many d6 you have to roll on average to roll a 1, and you have your answer. :smallwink:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
On Ld9? Generally by the fourth test they'll fail. If you believe statistics - which I don't. However, if you've just shot four units' worth of Rifles into one squad, they shouldn't be alive anymore.
I do. And as an Ork player I can tell you averages work.
Against MeQ you're inflicting 0.4 wounds per five-man squad. With eight of them you're looking at 3 1/3 dead marines and a 5/9 chance of pinning a single squad.
With eight sniper squads.
It's better than 50-50 but not something you'd want to rely on.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Is there a reason that everyone on the forum only seems to play 1750pts or less?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
The time a game takes increases exponentially as the points total increases linearly.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DCGFTW
The time a game takes increases exponentially as the points total increases linearly.
Huh, My friends and I can set up and play a 3000pts game in 3 hours. An Apocolypse game still takes takes a full day or even two granted, so I see your point. How much time do you normally take to do a 1500pts-1750pts game?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ceridan
Huh, My friends and I can set up and play a 3000pts game in 3 hours. An Apocolypse game still takes takes a full day or even two granted, so I see your point. How much time do you normally take to do a 1500pts-1750pts game?
1750pts generally takes us at least 1 1/4 hours. I've never played a 3000pts game that took less than 3 1/2 hours though. One went to 4 1/2 hours at turn 5.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ceridan
Is there a reason that everyone on the forum only seems to play 1750pts or less?
1750 is a tournament standard in Australia, and larger games seem largely pointless and very very unbalanced.
Also three hours is a pretty long time for a game where both players know the rules and their armies. I mean, would you rather play two 1750 point games or one 3k?