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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
In his defense the contract is designed to kill her almost immediately as soon as he activates it. The instant she betrays he can snuff her out pretty easily.
Of course, then she called his bluff. And I like the theory that Bolas CAN'T actually control the Eternals without her help.
I think it's a good way of having Bolas actually get dealt a blow / have something not go his way in the storyline without it seeming forced. Both the Jace/Vraska plans and Liliana's stuff boil down to the same failure of Bolas' - he's so conceited and self-centred that he can't fathom the idea that someone might be care more about their allies than about themselves. It's a weak spot in his planning and it makes a lot of sense as an issue for a Grixis coloured character - he thinks 'well, she will die if she betrays me, so she won't betray me' and doesn't look into it more until the betrayal actually hits.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
Fable Wright
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Please let it be Jace this time.
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Seconded. Hoped it would happen when he became the guildpact.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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I really hope it's not Jace. Ixalan was great development for him, and he's one of my most liked planeswalkers now. In terms of who could die, Gideon is unlikely, since there have been hints of him dying on Theros. Nissa and Chandra are possibilities, but they've both been kind of out of focus since Kaladesh, so it wouldn't have as much impact. Liliana seems like the best bet, and it'd be a suitable end to her character arc.
Redemption Equals Death, after all.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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It won't be Jace. Vryn is a plane that's been discussed and asked for as a place to visit at some point in the near future, and Jace is the best link to the plane in the current cast + has unresolved / possible plotlines and stories there.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Spoiler: the madmen did it
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
Gauntlet
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It won't be Jace. Vryn is a plane that's been discussed and asked for as a place to visit at some point in the near future, and Jace is the best link to the plane in the current cast + has unresolved / possible plotlines and stories there.
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I don't think that's a guaranteed safe. Could just mean he'll die with unresolved plotlines.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Of course, then she called his bluff. And I like the theory that Bolas CAN'T actually control the Eternals without her help.
Yeah, that's my point!
Bolas is a black mage himself, why not force her to teach him her magic? But noooo... Papa Bolas has to have underlings to order around.
Now he has a horde of undead that may or may not be able to drain freaking sparks againts him becuase he was too lazy to learn necromancy and wanted to have a servant.
A millennia long plan ruined becuase he want to boss someone around. :smallannoyed:
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
I don't know if you've ever been in charge of something, but doing everything yourself is incredibly inefficient. Yes, relying on other people is a great risk, and you can't always trust them to do what you need them to do, which is why you put contingencies in place when they eventually fail you. But doing everything yourself? You just can't get as much done that way. Underlings are important methods of expanding the amount of things you can do in a limited amount of time, you can't just go throwing that away.
There's nothing saying Bolas can't control his own Eternals. In fact given that they literally worship him, it seems probably pretty easy. He'll probably be fine.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
S@tanicoaldo
Bolas is a black mage himself, why not force her to teach him her magic? But noooo... Papa Bolas has to have underlings to order around.
Do we even know magic works this way? Like could Jace learn time magic from Teferi if they just sat down and chilled for a bit? I don't know. I have no idea if he is actually able to learn necromancy.
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Now he has a horde of undead that may or may not be able to drain freaking sparks againts him becuase he was too lazy to learn necromancy and wanted to have a servant.
I don't know if you've noticed, but Bolas has had lots of servants.
As others have pointed out Liliana's "betrayal" didn't really seem possible given that her motivations are almost exclusively selfish, she fears death above everything else, and she dies if she disobeys him.
Are you blaming him for thinking that was a sure thing?
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A millennia long plan ruined becuase he want to boss someone around. :smallannoyed:
The only reason that plan got anywhere in the first place is because he didn't insist on doing everything himself.
He reminds me of Thanos from MCU in the way he actually surrounds himself with capable lackeys, which is a lot better plan than just trying to do everything yourself.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
ImperiousLeader
How much do you know of the previous story? Liliana, years ago, made a pact with 4 Demon Lords (Kothophed, Griselbrand, Razaketh, and Belzenlok) for power and immortality. She then tried to kill them to free herself. In Dominaria, she succeeded, killing Belzenlok, the last of the Demon Lords. However, the fine print of her contract is that should all the demons die, control of the pact will fall to Nicol Bolas, as he had planned.
Anyway, in the Trailer, Liliana watches a girl and her brother die, then Dack Fayden, and decides she won't allow herself to be Bolas's puppet anymore and turns his Eternal army against him, saving Gideon. But, as Bolas now has control of Liliana through her Demonic Pact, he burns her. Whether or not this is the end for her is an unanswered question. The only thing that's odd is that the trailer starts in reverse time.
Maro stated that the original design for Nicol Bolas in Hour of Devastation had a static ability, but they wanted to hold back on that piece of technology for a bit longer. Planeswalkers have limited design space, and WotC is loathe to use it up too quickly.
I know nothing about the story, but I get the general concept. So when did the act of treason actually occur? Was it the entire trailer or did she draw a mountain in the middle of the trailer?:smalltongue:
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
Ninjaman
I don't know if you've noticed, but Bolas has had lots of servants.
As others have pointed out Liliana's "betrayal" didn't really seem possible given that her motivations are almost exclusively selfish, she fears death above everything else, and she dies if she disobeys him.
Are you blaming him for thinking that was a sure thing?
It's a pretty classic case of Evil Cannot Comprehend Still Moderately Evil But Less of a **** About It (TVTropes link NOT included, you're welcome). The thing is, Liliana's betrayal isn't even altruistic. She's still doing exactly what she values and she's willing to sacrifice everything, including her own life, to do it (which is the most black-aligned thing ever). She's just decided that she values her freedom and the people she's come to care for more than she values life as the slave of someone who is a notoriously bad boss. When the alternative is "live forever as Bolas's slave" a final, desperate attempt to take him out or die trying sounds completely reasonable.
My prediction is that she dies and Gideon goes Super Saiyan. I'd complain about a strong female character dying to motivate a dude, but this is actually a good end to Lily's arc if that's where they take it. Second possibility is that she lives, Gideon dies saving her, and that motivates her to be a better person going forward. Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing how it pans out.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
CN the Logos
It's a pretty classic case of Evil Cannot Comprehend Still Moderately Evil But Less of a **** About It (TVTropes link NOT included, you're welcome). The thing is, Liliana's betrayal isn't even altruistic. She's still doing exactly what she values and she's willing to sacrifice everything, including her own life, to do it (which is the most black-aligned thing ever). She's just decided that she values her freedom and the people she's come to care for more than she values life as the slave of someone who is a notoriously bad boss. When the alternative is "live forever as Bolas's slave" a final, desperate attempt to take him out or die trying sounds completely reasonable.
My prediction is that she dies and Gideon goes Super Saiyan. I'd complain about a strong female character dying to motivate a dude, but this is actually a good end to Lily's arc if that's where they take it. Second possibility is that she lives, Gideon dies saving her, and that motivates her to be a better person going forward. Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing how it pans out.
They could also do a Garruk; she's got the chain veil on her waist, so she could go full-on onakke slave instead of bolas' slave; 'liliana' dies but the veil keeps her body alive and going.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Im sorry to break the conversation but I want to initiate my GF to Commander. She is smart but has a mental disability that affect her doing maths.
So I was considering what kind of deck would help her with doing the less calculation as possible?
I was thinking of a self-milling Persistent Petitionner deck, as she have no trouble counting cards one at a times to put them in her graveyard. I would use Rubinia Soulsinger as her commander. I know, not the strongest choice but she doesn't like the black color and While I believe I could make her a strong Ezuri, Claw of Progress EHD deck, Im not sure she likes +1/+1 counter.
Otherwise, I have a pretty straight-forward Jalira, Master Polymorphist deck, based on artifacts that involve not so much maths in itself except combat. She know what numbers are bigger then others.
Otherwise, what other strategy could I pull off to make her a interesting deck? Any cards that have alternate win condition is welcome.
She likes the idea of a pillow fort deck so maybe I could use a Persistent Petitionner human tribal strategy with Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer? Their is good white cards that would fit a self-mill a Persistent Petitionner strategy...
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
When I hear pillow fort I immediately think of Olorro and Nekusar. Is she actually against black in general, or just doesn't like the usual pay life to do things associated with many black cards?
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
Techwarrior
When I hear pillow fort I immediately think of Olorro and Nekusar. Is she actually against black in general, or just doesn't like the usual pay life to do things associated with many black cards?
... she doesnt the art on many cards, zombies, necromancy... Yeah, black in general LOL
Knowing her, only the Queen Marchesa has a chance for her to play black... I think she would likes the concept of players fighting to be the monarch while she just hide behind her shields lol
But... Im not sure how our player circle understand the powerful aspect of drawing more cards per turns, especially just one. Well, unless a player play a wheel deck like when I play my Pir/Toothy deck lol
So yeah Olloro and Nekusar arent an option. Im trying to keep the strategy straightforward and easy enough for her. Hence why I thought of Persistent Petitionners. :smallredface:
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
you can try a prison style deck, specially if you are playing multi. lots of the stuff that discourages attacking (propaganda, ghostly prison, etc) so she is not a target while she builds up?
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
LansXero
you can try a prison style deck, specially if you are playing multi. lots of the stuff that discourages attacking (propaganda, ghostly prison, etc) so she is not a target while she builds up?
Indeed but we the playgroup cannot always regroup for multiplayer, hence why its not my first choice and that Im asking for help. A pillow fort (or prison deck as you call them) is fine if you have a winning strategy in mind.
Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer EDH seem like a good idea for her but the only win condition I could find was Persistent Petitionner human tribal for such deck, if I want a straightfoward strategy.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist will work for now for her to learn the game, just looking for an alternative that she might like more... and also something she could keep instead of taking one of my decks lol :smalltongue:
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
zurgo burn and just let her opponent do the math of how many lifes they lost?
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
LansXero
zurgo burn and just let her opponent do the math of how many lifes they lost?
That would be easy to cheat out against strangers like in a local game store. But yeah, Im willing to help her when she need to do maths. Just looking for a deck that allow her to participate without people realizing she's not good with math. Don't want to embarass her you know? :smallfrown:
I looked it up and their is two Zurgo legendary creatures. Interesting. But neither fit her, one has black in it and the other is pure red. I doubt she will be willing to go pure red deck. She wouldnt mind a deck that splash in red but its not her favorite color...
Her favorite colors are white and green. She dont mind blue and red as long as they mix with either white and/or green. That's also why I picked Rubinia Soulsinger.
I also considered Dragonlord Dramoka for her but I dont know how to build such a deck and make it simple enough for a newbie...
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
Emmerlaus
That would be easy to cheat out against strangers like in a local game store. But yeah, Im willing to help her when she need to do maths. Just looking for a deck that allow her to participate without people realizing she's not good with math. Don't want to embarass her you know? :smallfrown:
I looked it up and their is two Zurgo legendary creatures. Interesting. But neither fit her, one has black in it and the other is pure red. I doubt she will be willing to go pure red deck. She wouldnt mind a deck that splash in red but its not her favorite color...
Her favorite colors are white and green. She dont mind blue and red as long as they mix with either white and/or green. That's also why I picked Rubinia Soulsinger.
I also considered Dragonlord Dramoka for her but I dont know how to build such a deck and make it simple enough for a newbie...
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1133998#paper
something like this perhaps? Then in green you get elf tribal as well to play with. Or maybe Arcades?
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...ategist-54-112
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
LansXero
The soldier one would have being awesome, something even I would love to play... but that build is way too costly LOL :smallredface::smallsigh:
The Arcades one seem nice however... Arcades always seemed like a cheap, less good version of Doran, The Siege Tower. And the video certainly isnt proving me otherwise.
Maybe I should ask my girlfriend what she likes, instead of trying to surprise her :smallsigh:
Darien, King of Kjeldor seem like a VERY valid option though... She could really likes it! I'll need to see if I can buy it for cheap enough, if she's interested in the game. For now, she is still learning the ropes of it. But I'll keep that good idea in my back pocket. :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Pheldagrif might be her kind of style.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
Shadow of the Sun
Pheldagrif might be her kind of style.
Nah... their is a difference between group hug decks and pillow forts deck LOL :smallbiggrin:
A Darien, King of Kjeldor deck for exemple discourage people from hitting you, their is way to encourage other to hit each others with such deck while you build an army, get lifegain cards and win with Felidar Sovereign if you need to.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
It's hard to make an Commander deck that doesn't rely on a lot of math, since really Magic is a math simulator, but if she already plays Magic I would just ask her what she likes to do in Magic and then build a deck that does that. If she likes playing giant creatures and smashing with them, she should definitely play a Commander deck that lets her play giant creatures and smash with them. If she enjoys the experience of playing the cards, you can help her a bit with the math and then she'll have a good time.
If she likes the idea of a pillow fort deck, then I would definitely look at Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis, who are good for group hug and block really well so you can build up defenses and get everyone on your side, or something like Tuvasa, the Sunlit with a lot of enchantments to protect you. Isperia, Supreme Judge might also work to make people look elsewhere.
I would seriously just ask her what she likes about Magic, though. I've had a lot of success building entire decks for really cheap (less than the commander Precons!) so I can help if you're worried about cost.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Emmerlaus
That would be easy to cheat out against strangers like in a local game store. But yeah, Im willing to help her when she need to do maths. Just looking for a deck that allow her to participate without people realizing she's not good with math. Don't want to embarass her you know? :smallfrown:
I looked it up and their is two Zurgo legendary creatures. Interesting. But neither fit her, one has black in it and the other is pure red. I doubt she will be willing to go pure red deck. She wouldnt mind a deck that splash in red but its not her favorite color...
Her favorite colors are white and green. She dont mind blue and red as long as they mix with either white and/or green. That's also why I picked Rubinia Soulsinger.
I also considered Dragonlord Dramoka for her but I dont know how to build such a deck and make it simple enough for a newbie...
That’s basically the opposite of me. I’ll play ANYTHING but green.
Small, 1-mana cost creatures (especially with haste) are my goto, making red my favorite color, but black, blue, and white have plenty of 1-mana birds which have flight, meaning my three favorite decks are monored, buw, and rbuw. Green is terrible, though. I can’t play green.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
tgva8889
It's hard to make an Commander deck that doesn't rely on a lot of math, since really Magic is a math simulator
Yeah, that's true sigh... :smallsigh:
That's why Im asking online for some help lol! Maybe I'll PM you if you dont mind, once she figure out what she likes the most in the game except for the art. If I cant figure out what to do with her answer that is.
I know Im pushing my interest on her a bit but she likes the art on a lot of the cards, which was my first interest in MTG. And she do want to understand what Im so passionnate about :smallbiggrin:
Pillow forts is her first idea because it involve watching the others fight it off and getting some revenge on those who doesnt ignore you. But yeah, asking her out what she likes best once she knows the rope is a better idea then just surprising her. And I wont waste money this way if she change her mind (which I hope she doesn't lol)
To Zhentarim: To each their own. You like very fast aggro decks but that can be stopped with a pyroclasm for exemple. But that doesn't help me with my problem lol
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
I'd actually recommend Mill.
If someone's bad at math, their opponent can fudge their life total, or the number of poison counters they have, or the criteria for most alternate win conditions... but once they've drawn the last card in their library, you can physically see that it's empty; no math needed!
...
It'll be tricky to do Mill without any black, though.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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Originally Posted by
enderlord99
It'll be tricky to do Mill without any black, though.
Isn't most mill blue?
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
A lot of really good mill does involve black these days. You want to play things like Mind Grind, Consuming Aberration, and Mirko Vosk.
Also yeah feel free to PM me. If what she likes is the art, you can build a deck with lots of her favorite art. Commander is the kind of format where you can make a deck work with slightly suboptimal cards, and if you're playing Gaea's Blessing because you think it looks cool even if it doesn't really work in your deck that is totally fine. If she's having fun, that's what matters. I'd probably ask "who are your favorite artists?" and "what cards have your favorite art?" and start from there. If there's a card she really likes, make sure to put it in. We're going for fun here, winning can come with some of the fun.
Not sure why that was my card example, but you get the idea.
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
I'm with tgva8889. Start with cards she likes.
Try asking her for her five favorite cards, and we can see if we can come up with something for some/all of them.