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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JustSomeGuy
in fighting off a home intruder movie style, i'd expect more stopping power from a big kitchen knife.
Evaluating the efficiency of a weapon without knowing how it is actually used (don't look at me, no kukri experience) is probably not a good idea.
But yeah, the way to actually knife-fight is to bind your opponent's knife hand/arm (hopefully where they can't just reach over with the other hand and grab the knife), and then stab them in the belly/torso until they stop moving. And you'll probably still get hurt, and likely badly. Knife-fighting is for people who don't mind going to the hospital with a lot of nasty wounds. (Now, a shanking attack is a different matter...)
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Have there been weapons that use clips except World War 1 and 2 rifles? I think I vaguely remember one German handgun also having them.
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Well, some carcano versions use them, and that's a version of the weapon who was used to assasinate J F Kennedy. and type 92 japanese Machineguns used clips in ww2 (big clips).
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Revolvers: the "speed loader" AKA full-moon clip/half-moon clip. I guess you're counting the SKS as a WW2 rifle (although it didn't enter Soviet Army use until after WW2). There's also the Hakim rifle, loaded with stripper clips.
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
I think the pistol you're thinking of is the distinctive Mauser C96.
It's not clear how the repeating crossbow was reloaded, but the magazine was non-detachable, so they could have loaded new bolts by hand or had a clip to help them.
Some tank autoloaders I believe use a clip equivalent to hold the shells.
Some revolvers have a speed loader accessory which effectively replicate what a clip does for automatic weapons.
Generally though, detachable magazines have replaced clips, particularly for automatic weapons.
Edit: Some more digging has thrown up the T93 and M24A1 sniper rifles, both of which have internal magazines.
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yora
Have there been weapons that use clips except World War 1 and 2 rifles? I think I vaguely remember one German handgun also having them.
I think the handgun you're thinking of is the Mauser C96 - it's reasonably famous.
Clips (both stripper and en-bloc) were quite common before WWI - all Mannlicher, Roth, and Krnka pistols, for example.
Several WWII-era autocannon, like the 37mm FlaK37 and the 40mm Bofors; also, the post-war 30mm Rarden.
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yora
Have there been weapons that use clips except World War 1 and 2 rifles? I think I vaguely remember one German handgun also having them.
As already mentioned the Broomhandle Mauser pistol used a stripper clip, and so did several of the Steyr pistols. I'm not aware of any that used an en-bloc clip.
The Breda 30 (LMG) used an unusual 20 round charger to load it's magazine: it was inserted into the magazine, then pulled out leaving the rounds behind. It was a bizarre and disliked weapon, although I don't think it's loading procedure was a problem -- it's Achilles heel was the oil lubrication which proved a disaster in North Africa. I've actually got to handle one of them. For reasons that are not entirely clear it was decided that the receiver face should be non-rotating; without the rotational movement when extracting the spent cartridge, the cartridge tended to stick -- so oil lubrication was the solution.
http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/milita...mg-breda-1.jpg
The Breda 30 was so bad that its reputation has marred almost all Italian machine guns! No other Italian machine gun used oil-lubrication, but it's often reported that they all did, or that they all had (overly) complex loading systems. The Fiat-Revelli M1914 is often reported to have used oil-lubrication, but this is a mistake, born of confusion involving later variants.
Otherwise, several machineguns did use strips (if you can count those as clips?): the Hotchkiss machineguns and their derivatives, the Breda 37, etc.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...26_cropped.jpg
The Fiat-Revelli M1914 used a box device of 50 rounds, 10 stacks of 5 rounds each. It was loaded and ejected much like a strip. 100 round versions existed for aircraft use, along with others with even more rounds.
http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/image...li_m1914_2.jpg
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
In Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, during the famous fight scene, the older of the two women tries to use this big heavy axe-like weapon with a long shaft....what are those called?
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
http://www.shaolincom.com/Images-S/P...pade99-02d.jpg
This thing?
It's called monk's spade, or Crescent Moon Spade.
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
A game of "What's That Polearm" might need a bit more description... unless Spiryt just got lucky.
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
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Originally Posted by
Rhynn
A game of "What's That Polearm" might need a bit more description... unless Spiryt just got lucky.
If I watched the right scene, there was one polearm used there, save very obvious spear, so not that much luck involved. :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Yes, that's it! Thank you!
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Judging from the club used later and the colour of it, that monk's spade appeared to be made out of bronze. I think it must have been a ceremonial or training weapon of some sort as it was far too heavy for Shu Lien to use.
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Well, it was a joke anyway. :smallbiggrin:
In a wuxia movie. Probable level of historic accuracy: low.
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Check out this incredible collection of antique crossbows and spanners. I learned a great deal just looking a these images.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7457
G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brother Oni
Any executioner so cack handed to require several blows was usually villified by the crowd for causing excessive suffering.
Probly depended on how despised the criminal was. If the court/king wanted a clean execution they'd usually just make sure the executioner was sober. It does make one appreciate how the guillotine was looked upon as a merciful method.
Quote:
For normal culinary work, getting through bone usually requires a cleaver of some sort:
The "vishalhotelsupply" link is a 404.
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Straybow
Probly depended on how despised the criminal was. If the court/king wanted a clean execution they'd usually just make sure the executioner was sober. It does make one appreciate how the guillotine was looked upon as a merciful method.
I remember reading somewhere that a sword was usually reserved for nobility as it made a cleaner cut, rather than the axe used for everybody else, but I find no evidence for this.
In England, we switched over to hanging from 1747 onwards and with a good hangman, it was almost as quick as beheading and probably a lot less painful for the accused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Straybow
The "vishalhotelsupply" link is a 404.
Odd, I can still see it just fine.
Trying a different image:
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Did the guillotine always work? Or did we have any situations along the lines of crappy ass axemen needing multiple whacks with an axe to finally kill the poor bastard?
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Traab
Did the guillotine always work? Or did we have any situations along the lines of crappy ass axemen needing multiple whacks with an axe to finally kill the poor bastard?
I vaguely remember one example where the victim was not aligned properly beneath the guilotine and the blade dug into their shoulder and they survived, screaming, and they had to be dealt with. I don't remember if it was just resetting up the guilotine or if someone just put the bugger out of their misery.
I also do not quite remember where I heard it from, so, take this with a grain of salt.
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
The point of a guillotine is to make exactly these kinds of mishaps impossible. With an axe, this is always a possibility, but with a guillotine that couldn't happen, unless the person wasn't secured.
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yora
The point of a guillotine is to make exactly these kinds of mishaps impossible. With an axe, this is always a possibility, but with a guillotine that couldn't happen, unless the person wasn't secured.
Even then, how would you shove your shoulder into a head-sized hole so that the blade that descends between two plates/boards could hit it?
Yeah, seems impossible. I can't even imagine a body position that'd allow your shoulder to be anywhere under the guillotine blade, unless you just shoved one arm through the hole as far as you could.
I guess if the whole guillotine suddenly fell apart while you're being put into it, the blade might hit your shoulder...
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rhynn
Even then, how would you shove your shoulder into a head-sized hole so that the blade that descends between two plates/boards could hit it?
Perhaps this particular guillotine didn't have an upper restraining board and one or more of the executioners were in a hurry so got a bit trigger happy with the release mechanism?
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brother Oni
Perhaps this particular guillotine didn't have an upper restraining board and one or more of the executioners were in a hurry so got a bit trigger happy with the release mechanism?
I tried to find images of different designs of guillotine, but the design seems pretty specific. Did ones with no upper board exist?
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
there was an earlier version with out the neck restraint and with a different name. at the moment i have no idea what it was called.
some quick research shows this
a halifax gibbet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Gibbet
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...k_-_350422.jpg
and the maiden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maiden_%28beheading%29
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...f_Scotland.jpg
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Is there a reason why you couldn't stick tank armor and a tank gun on something with wheels? I thought it might be weight, but they can make heavy trucks and such...
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Haruspex_Pariah
Is there a reason why you couldn't stick tank armor and a tank gun on something with wheels? I thought it might be weight, but they can make heavy trucks and such...
No, it has been done. Tracks perform better on many types of terrain (just about anything not relatively flat and firm) while wheeled vehicles tend to be faster...until they can't handle the terrain. :)
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Haruspex_Pariah
Is there a reason why you couldn't stick tank armor and a tank gun on something with wheels? I thought it might be weight, but they can make heavy trucks and such...
Yeah, check up "armored car" -- most of them are "light", armed only with machine guns or light cannons, but some had heavy cannons and are/were basically used as tank destroyers.
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cucchulainnn
there was an earlier version with out the neck restraint and with a different name. at the moment i have no idea what it was called.
Thanks! That explains why I couldn't find the images.
Okay, so definitely possible to get the wrong bit of yourself into some beheading devices, if not the actual guillotine (which I guess wasn't so much an invention as an improvement).
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rhynn
Okay, so definitely possible to get the wrong bit of yourself into some beheading devices, if not the actual guillotine (which I guess wasn't so much an invention as an improvement).
There's always the possibility that that this due to the sheer amount of prisoners they had to process (or they were just lazy), the executioners started taking shortcuts in procedure.
I'm sure during the height of the French Revolution, untrained executioners took part or the normal operators just got a bit blase about the whole procedure (somewhere between 16.5 to 40 thousand people were execued in under a year).
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Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Haruspex_Pariah
Is there a reason why you couldn't stick tank armor and a tank gun on something with wheels? I thought it might be weight, but they can make heavy trucks and such...
they can be done, and are, as Raum showed ( i think the vehicle shown is a french design, but quite a few nations have similar ish vehicles in service, generally with six or eight wheeled chassis. check out the US Stryker/LAV III family, or the old russain BTR series).
as pointed out, wheel vehicles generally have worse off road proformance than tracked ones, but they can still manage reasonably rough terrian, and are faster on flat terrian, and i think have lower contruction and running costs. some nations make extensive use of them.
their seems to have been an significant increase in wheeled armour since the end of the Cold war, with several nations adopting new "medium" wheeled armoured vehicles to fill the gap between thier heavy armour built for fighting the Cold war (for example, the M1 abrams or a Bradley IFV) and the mostly unarmoued or lightly armoued support vehicles (Humvees and simmilar designs).
A number of modern conflicts have been of a limited nature that were not suitable for the deployment of heavy armour, or required more armoured vehicles than were feasible to supply. thier has been a growing need for a armoured vehicle that can take a RPG hit or a roadside bomb, but is lighter and cheaper than a MTB designed to shrug off everything can be thrown at it by a conventional army in a full scale war. also, the old supply vehicles were built to be used in a secure, rear area enviroment, but are now being used in hostile, unpacified areas where thier is a greater threat of beng shot at. most wheeled armoured designs in service were built for this "light" role, often to replace unarmoued vehicles in logictic and patrol duties.,