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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
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Originally Posted by
Keledrath
I can actually understand that. Archetypes are usually about customization, but akashic classes are fundamentally among the most customizable classes jn the system, because of how veilweaving works.
Yeah.... It's actually pretty hard to make an archetype that isn't less flexible, and the classes are well tuned enough that sacrificing versatility for power tends to lead to too much power. Basically, the balance point seems to be sacrificing one type of versatility for a different type of versatility, not super easy in a system that covers a lot of different types of versatility. Vizier is coming along best, since I always had a pretty firm idea of how I wanted to go all Green Lantern with him, the others are proving more tricky, both to balance and execute.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
Since each class essentially has archetypes built in, I can see the challenge. I tried awhile back, but never came up with anything workable. The animal companion vizier path was decent, I thought, but a path, not an archetype.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
I agree with stack: really, more than Archetypes, what the Akashic classes need are more Daevic Passions, more Guru Philosophies and Vizier paths, similar to how the Oracle has a comparatively few number of archetypes, but a great deal of additional Revelations outside those printed in the APG.
On the other hand, The Axiomite over in Steelforge is a great example of an archetype which is a new 'passion' with some tweaks around it to make an archetype.
Also, I think Peace(Oblivion/Resolution) could work as a passion, though it might step on the Guru's toes a little. Starts off with Non-lethal damage, Oblivion splits into Negative energy damage, and energy drain, whereas Resolution gets charm/calm emotions, that kinda stuff. (Obviously this would be for a later product, I'm just spitballing)
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
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Originally Posted by
Sayt
I agree with stack: really, more than Archetypes, what the Akashic classes need are more Daevic Passions, more Guru Philosophies and Vizier paths, similar to how the Oracle has a comparatively few number of archetypes, but a great deal of additional Revelations outside those printed in the APG.
And there will be more, but they're primarily slated for other products due to the sheer amount of space each one takes up and the fact that they'll be better presented alongside other materials, particularly more diverse libraries of veils than we can fit in one book.
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On the other hand, The Axiomite over in Steelforge is a great example of an archetype which is a new 'passion' with some tweaks around it to make an archetype.
Yeah, I had to steer Psybomb away from actually doing a new Passion, because I already had stuff earmarked that would have overlapped.
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Also, I think Peace(Oblivion/Resolution) could work as a passion, though it might step on the Guru's toes a little. Starts off with Non-lethal damage, Oblivion splits into Negative energy damage, and energy drain, whereas Resolution gets charm/calm emotions, that kinda stuff. (Obviously this would be for a later product, I'm just spitballing)
Peace is a lie, there is only Passion. Daevics and Sith go to the same prep school.
Truthfully, this isn't really something I see happening, both because of the fact that it doesn't really fit with where I see the Daevic, and because it goes against the basic premise of what daeva are. If anything, it might be something that would be looked at in a context similar to Steelforge, where the Daevic bonds with a completely different type of outsider.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
I suppose that Guru's are much more like Jedi to the Daeva's Sith :smallbiggrin:
Also, I really, really like the "Non-Daeva Outsider Forms a Daeva-like Akashic bond with mortal", with symbiosis and blending into one being, rather than possession I have an OC for a story I'm slowly piecing together which fits that too a tee. (There's another idea I've been sitting on to develop to present/submit to the next playtest/dev threat for an Akashic archetype for a Warpriest or paladin , which gets 'ridden' by their deity, and gets Holy Vindicator style stigmata bonuses when it has essence invested. Or maybe it gets ridden by rogue daeva who are attracted to fervor. Idea needs work.)
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
So, I've been tearing down and rewriting these archetypes for the Guru and Vizier for a while now, and while talking to one of my playtesters I realized what the problem was.
I wanted to make a "Sculptor" archetype for the Vizier that was basically Green Lantern, but that's kind of what the Vizier already is. He sculpts tools, called veils, out of will and can use them for a variety of purposes. If anything, I should just have a veil that lets you simulate the fabricate spell or something similar.
I wanted to make a Bounty Hunter archetype for the Guru, but I kept getting caught up in the fact that the Guru is already a great bounty hunter, and all he really needs is a veil that gives him some good tracking tools, maybe a veil that makes it easier to contain and transport a subdued opponent.
....
Anyways, I think that archetypes might not be the best step yet. I'm going to write up those veils so any character can choose those abilities if they want (which also takes up less space than the archetypes) and forego the archetypes this time around.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
I think this sounds fair. I am quite welcome to seeing new veils spawn from this! Thank you for putting forward all this effort towards making Akashic Mysteries great Ssalarn.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
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Originally Posted by
Kaidinah
I think this sounds fair. I am quite welcome to seeing new veils spawn from this! Thank you for putting forward all this effort towards making Akashic Mysteries great Ssalarn.
Seconding this.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
Our resident kobolds are in agreement.
It's definitely true that it's hard to write akashic archetypes, because of how variable the classes already are. You sort of built archetypes directly into the classes with Mystic Attunement, Philosophy, and Passion.
Not that that's a bad thing. In fact, I think it's a rather clever bit of game design, and encourages diversity within each particular class. Can't wait to see what the new Paths of Mystic Attunement, Philosophies, and Daevic Passions in the next books will be.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
A Ring-slot veil that gives Fabricate at-will, except all the items are made of Force and Concentration duration?
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
I heard some mention of dropping the Aegis archetype and instead giving them customizations that grant access to some Akashic bonuses?
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
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Originally Posted by
Mithril Leaf
I heard some mention of dropping the Aegis archetype and instead giving them customizations that grant access to some Akashic bonuses?
Yeah, that's a thing that is (right this moment) happening.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
What kind of right now are we talkin about here anyways?
I'm not seeing any TM though, that's good right?
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
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Originally Posted by
Kiton2
What kind of right now are we talkin about here anyways?
I'm not seeing any TM though, that's good right?
Yeah, life (as it tends to) doesn't like to back me up when I say I'm going to do something, but I'm in the master doc right now, incorporating in-house playtest feedback into the customizations and talents so I can update the playtest link with these materials. i'm also going to buy a couple extra days for everyone to play with stuff. I have a game tonight that I have to show up for since I'll be canceling my weekly Third Party Thursdays event at the game store for PAX, so worst case scenario you have everything except the akashic monsters (which annihilated the last playtest group, something I'm still trying to sift through to determine whether that's a balance thing or a system mastery thing) in your hands no later then 3pm Pacific time tomorrow.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
Hm... I should be able to convince my DM to do a few quick changes after handing in if I'm careful then!
Good to know. Thank you.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
Ssalarn, I posted this last month, hoping to get slings added to the RAW of what is available to the Powerful Throw feat. Looking back, it was never visibly addressed, so I wanted to make sure it was seen. Halfling slings are very important to me. Even if you don't use this exact text, I would appreciate the change.
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Originally Posted by
Ilorin Lorati
I saw Powerful Throw pop up in the Path of War thread, so I figured I'd pop over here to point out that by RAW it wouldn't affect slings, since they're projectile weapons and not thrown weapons. Is there any chance that Sling weapons could be added to the list of weapons that can be used for it?
If you were to make the change, this would be my recommendation:
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Powerful Throw [Combat]
You can leverage your great strength to control the flight of your thrown weapons.
Prerequisites: Strength 15, base attack bonus +1, Power Attack.
Benefit: You may use your Strength modifier in place of your Dexterity modifier for your attack rolls when making a ranged attack with thrown weapons and other weapons in the thrown weapon group. You may also use the Power Attack feat instead of the Deadly Aim feat when attacking with these weapons.
Normal: Power Attack cannot be used for ranged damage rolls, and Dexterity, not Strength, is used for ranged attack rolls.
Emphasis on the changed text. This avoids calling out slings specifically, since there are several types, and future proofs it in the case of further not-quite-thrown projectile weapons.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
I'll review Powerful Throw and making it compatible with slings.
Just FYI guys, we're in the middle of a pretty severe thunder storm that knocked out our power, so I may not make that 3pm deadline. The only electronic thing in my house that works right now is my phone, and it's at 35% battery.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
How long does it take to shape your veils? I was looking, but I didn't see it.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
One hour, once a day after 8 hours of rest if you're a Vizier. Check the other classes under Veilweaving in case they're different.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
I was curious, so I checked and they both do list an hour of meditation after a good night's rest. It's just the type of line I tend to gloss over to read the parts that will be different from class to class.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
Yeah, same, I just overlooked it.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
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Originally Posted by
Kiton2
*looks around*
*coughs*
Here's an abbreviated list to get you started while I get caught up from the storm:
Customizations- The following talents are available to the Aegis class and all of its archetypes that gain customizations. Other classes that gain access to customizations may select these at the GM’s discretion.
1 Point Customizations
Chakra Bind, Lesser- An aegis with this customization gains the Access Low Chakra Slot feat as a bonus feat as long as his astral suit is formed. The aegis chooses which slot to apply this feat to the first time he forms his astral suit for the day and cannot select a different slot for 24 hours, regardless of whether he reforms or reconfigures his suit.
Shape Veil, Lesser- As long as the aegis’ astral suit is formed, he gains the benefits of one veil from the daevic veil list, treating his class level as his veilweaver level and Intelligence as his veilweaving ability. The aegis chooses this veil the first time he forms his astral suit for the day and cannot select a different veil for 24 hours, regardless of whether he reforms or reconfigures his suit.
2 Point Customizations
Ectoplessence- The aegis’ astral suit now provides a pool of essence to power akashic abilities. As long as his astral suit is formed, the aegis gains an essence pool equal to half his class level rounded down (minimum 1).
Shape Veil, Improved- The aegis gains additional veilweaving capabilities. The aegis may choose a second veil from the daevic veilweaving list to have shaped while their astral suit is formed. This veil follows the same restrictions as that gained from the Lesser Shape Veil customization. The aegis must be at least 5th level and have the Lesser Shape Veil customization before selecting this customization.
3 Point Customizations
Chakra Bind, Improved- An aegis with this customization gains the Access Middle Chakra Slot feat as a bonus feat as long as his astral suit is formed. The aegis chooses which slot to apply this feat to the first time he forms his astral suit for the day and cannot select a different slot for 24 hours, regardless of whether he reforms or reconfigures his suit. The aegis must be at least 9th level and have the Lesser Chakra Bind customization before selecting this customization.
Shape Veil, Greater- The aegis’ veilweaving abilities have transcended to a new peak. The aegis may choose a third veil from the daevic veilweaving list to have shaped while their astral suit is formed. This veil follows the same restrictions as that gained from the Lesser Shape Veil customization. The aegis must be at least 9th level and have the Lesser Shape Veil and Improved Shape Veil customizations before selecting this customization.
4 Point Customizations
Chakra Bind, Greater- An aegis with this customization gains the Access Higher Chakra Slot feat as a bonus feat as long as his astral suit is formed. The aegis chooses which slot to apply this feat to the first time he forms his astral suit for the day and cannot select a different slot for 24 hours, regardless of whether he reforms or reconfigures his suit. The aegis must be at least 15th level and have the Improved Chakra Bind customization before selecting this customization.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
Should probably add a source of essence. Maybe a repeatable customization giving 1 essence (I have no knowledge of aegis balance)?
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
Alright let's take a look.
First, the 24h limitations are reasonable. Veilshifting's a class ability and reconfigure letting one do it even better/more-often would be rather unfair
I second the "more essence" customization suggestion (is ectoplesscence half your level for purposes of selecting customizations, or half your true aegis level?), but as we want to limit things a bit, perhaps the extra should be locked in for 24h. Say, 1CPt/2E but you cannot reassign it at all for 24h, much like the other veil customs?
Other than that the levels and such seem appropriate. 9th is the middle of the 'mids' bind gains, 3 veils keeps things from matching even a Daevic.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
Ectoplessance gives you as much 'raw' essence as a Daevic, and there are no Capacity increases or extra essence receptacles (Unless you grab feats), even though you're not 'primarily' Akashic, so I'd think it would be sufficient, unless you went well and truly overboard and only bough Veils and binds with your customizations.
As it is, with the dynanic nature of essence, I think you gain enough essence from Ectoplessence, IMO, though perhaps I'd throw in the capacity to expend power points when you shape your suit to gain extra essence for the duration of that formed suit?
Ecoplessance also feels a little... tax-y on top of customizations for lesser bind and shape, though I'm conflicted on that.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
It's probably a matter of whether you're looking at the 'attacks' or elsewhere. Stuff like Hand Cannons, or Wyrm Gorget need a significant essence investment to keep up with your level. Soulknife-style, basically.
Everything else however, getting more free essence is probably too good.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
Just FYI, I pushed the Customizations listed above and a selection of Talents for Rogues, Investigators, and Slayers to the Supplemental WIP linked in the OP.
I think Ectoplessence should provide enough essence for the purposes of the options. Generally speaking, the aegis is probably going to use akashic customizations more for expanding his utility and options than for dealing damage. I could always add the Contemplation ability the other psionic/akashic hybrids use as a 1 point customization if the general consensus is that he needs a little more "juice".
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
Hm. The Akashic talents are a bit disappointing, to be honest. I was hoping for something more like my suggestions, where they can put all or most of their talents towards making themselves an actual veilweaver (e.g. able to switch up their veils from day to day). But then, I also think that Shape Veil is underpowered except when used for Lashing Spinnerets (seriously, that veil is good on everyone), so it really just comes down to a difference in opinion regarding how easy it should be to get veilweaving without taking levels in a veilweaving base class or archetype. What you've got is in line with existing rogue/slayer/investigator talents.
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Re: Dreamscarred Press Presents: Akashic Mysteries, Thread 2
Life Strike is interesting, given that Slayers get a flat bonus to their DC, but 2/3 SA progression, but I'm always a fan of getting to deal con damage :D
Out of curiosity, what's the basis for 12+SA dice as the DC?
I missed Font of power the first time around and was wondering how they were supposed to actually use the akashic stuff, whoops.
Do you think there's potential in a talent that steals an opponents essence from an enemy when you sneak attack them, burning half SADice worth of essence it for SA dice rounds and granting the sneak attacker that much essence for the same duration? Or would step too much on the toes of the Black Templar's?
Is Akashic training meant to be a 'Take once only' talent?
Clever Fingers seems a little...unnecessary, considering Sleight of Hand is, IIRC, an underutilised skill, and Rogues and Investigators get Trapfinding, and Slayer's can just take Trapfinding instead for a similarly scaling bonus that doesn't require an essence investment and spending a feat to bind it to hands. I think Snakehandler's gauntlets would be more useful and appropraite, and something I, at least, would considering using and binding. (Especially on a slayer which gets a bonus to save DCs)
I do love me some slayers!