Or play it that way in your games, but understand that we don't and won't.
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I think what he's complaining about is that he doesn't want to play it that way in his games, but everyone seems to assume things are so. Which, honestly, I can see. Malfeas as simply a bigger angry dude to punch is something I have seen, and the Ebon Dragon as popularly conceived could perfectly well be a human antagonist and nobody would bat an eyelash.
I agree with sentiment that Yozis seem tad too humane. But also agree with the statement saying that their debased state is given to Solaroid tampering with stuff they shouldn't touch. Wich resulted in such ... condition of the Yozis. Of course it might be completely convenient to whine that Neverborn are far worse ... but if Primodials can't break promises/oaths ... wouldn't simple banishement into the Wyld work ?
And Yozis only SEEM humane. They are simply crippled to fit to Unconquered Sun's/human's limited worldview.
This was the official superty duperty canon until the Vampire players complained (I kid; it was most WoD players). They technically retracted it, but they either didn't tell the writers, or didn't bother really retracting it. Autobot was still Iteration-X's God, Hunters were still portrayed as tiny insane Solars, etc.Quote:
I'm not so sure on that analogy, but I've seen myriad fan explanations on how Exalted is the past of the old World of Darkness.
The only part of this I'm not sure is canon is that the WoD was the foreseen end to "What happens if we try to reform the Solars and fail?" Can't really blame the Sids for nuking them.
I'm really having a tough time grasping why the Yozis - the beings who created the universe - would be alien to someone from that universe.
I think it's a matter of size. From an ant's perspective, a human is incomprehensible. It can see us - part of us, but it can't possibly understand us. It won't go gibbering insane on sight, but it can never grasp the extent of our thought processes and emotions.
I can sort of see where DeadMan is coming from. He just seems to be arguing from a point of (not saying this as an insult) ignorance. It seems to be:
Well, he has no omniscient awareness of all games of Exalted that exist. I'd wager his opinion is based on a heavily confirmation biased scan of a few Internet forums, and what a few strangers have said about it which may or may not actually reflect their legitimate feelings and opinions.
I don't think this discussion will ever be productive, because short of flying out to where he lives and running a game to his specification, I don't think you're going to be able to convince him of anything. His distaste is based on dudes in the internet. More dudes in the internet are not going to change his mind.
Now, girls on the Internet might be- ah, yeah. Almost forgot.
Also, if the human was actually 7 humans that comprised of one being, who has about three or four jouten, and each of those humans had 15(?) minihumans that comprised their souls, each of which had a multitude of species descended from them....
It starts to get alien fast.
The Creation as it was under the Primordials is ridiculously different from the Creation that humans live in. Concepts were obliterated from existence. Most sentient species (some of them technologically advanced beyond where humans were in the First Age) were destroyed or banished to the underdark. Humans only lived in a very small part of Creation until the Primordial War.
So, with the Yozis coming from a time when the laws of physics used to be more expansive, I imagine that they would seem very alien to humans.
Whatever you want it to! I mean, charm names usually come after you design the charm. I think the only exceptions are Shintai and Form charms.
Oh, man, and there's totally nothing saying you can't be a Dragon-Blooded Abyssal Solar Green Sun Prince Lunar Sidereal and there' ain't no rule saying Bud can't play basketball!
The Three Sphere Cataclysm is one of the stupidest things ever to happen to Exalted.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadManSleeping
The canonization of the 90% figure, which up until DotFA was fanon, makes it even worse.
Ignoring that, which I do and you should because I hate it and it sucks, Creation really wasn't that different. Humanity was stuck at the bottom of the totem pole and there were more species around (none of which were more advanced than humanity during the First Age), but it's comparing Babylonian-era humanity and modern-day humanity, not two different species.
Not to mention, I don't think anyone would argue that your average mortal would find a Yozi to be horrific and unknowable (hell, they have Charms that drive people insane, no save). An Exalted, though, is expected to be able to deal with that sort of thing.
Okay, I lol'd at the Bud part. But the difference is that there is verbage on one Exaltation per person. But, Akumahood is specifically allowed to stack on top of another Exaltation. And while Alchemicals and Abyssals are specifically called out as being incapable of receiving it, there's a lack on GSPs.
EDIT: And no, I'm not honestly proposing that sort of thing be taken seriously for an actual game. But I am honestly proposing that it's valid enough for me to harp on it forever. :smalltongue:
Where does it say you can only have one Exaltation? I understand the rule, but I don't remember seeing it anywhere.
It's somewhere in the Core.
It's because the human body can't handle the power of more than one Incarnae. Just like how a DB trying to reach higher power goes kablooey.
There's only enough room in your souls to fit one Exaltation. :smalltongue:
Or is there? :smalltongue:
Nah, I'm totally joshing. Though it does give eclipsoids something of an unfair advantage since they can emulate many of the traits of other exalts and pick and choose as they will.
So... Dragonblooded Celestials, anyone?
though Wood Aspects would fit well with Lunars
and I do have a character of mine that would make a good Chosen of Secrets/Water Aspect....
How would everyone feel about a "Vote Up a Devil-Tiger" thread?
yes. Yes.YES.
I personally feel that it's too specific for a Vote thread. A Devil-Tiger will only work for a few characters at best, after all, and generally the idea is to create something that everyone could use in their games. Also, I'm pretty sure everyone and their grandmother has made a Devil-Tiger or at least sketched one out at this point.
...howabout a Vote Up a Yozi thread? That would be a bit more work (a writeup, ~20 Charms, an Urge, an Act of Villainy, maybe a few souls), but that's something everyone could use. Also probably more fun to design.
Well, of course. Nitpick away.Quote:
EDIT: And no, I'm not honestly proposing that sort of thing be taken seriously for an actual game. But I am honestly proposing that it's valid enough for me to harp on it forever.
I'd love to do a Let's Make a Yozi thread.
But I feel it would be better done at the WW forums... >.>'
Vote up a devil tiger and vote up a yozi aren't mutually exclusive at all. The process of building the one mirrors that of the other. So I vote in the affirmative for doing this, and then it can be fluffed as appropriate for individual games as to whether they've been there the whole time or joined the club by process of ascension.
You don't need to know Exalted to make a Devil-Tiger!
Question 1. What are the themes you wish to embody?
1.Fire
2.Earth
3.Air
4.Water
...
N.Heart
Question 2. What do you get when you multiply six and nine?
etc.
I'll do this one next time. :smallbiggrin:
There is now a thread.
And because of all the yozi discussion I'm thinking of this again.