Nice, congrats Rosstin!
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Nice, congrats Rosstin!
Grats!
By the way, i just got 100 gold for logging in.. so i suggest you guys do the same :P
So, my Paladin deck has too much healing. It's not actually a huge amount, nor is it making me nigh-immortal. The problem is simply that I take stupid risks expecting health that doesn't arrive. The deck is a really simple, mostly Basic, deck that tosses out buffs onto high health(need the 2/7 turtle in it, but can't work out what to replace) and Charge minions(Chillblade is nice for dropping 10+ attack on Lifesteal), but also has plenty of healing to go around because I'm kinda risk-averse and Paladin also has a lot of healing. The actual contents are as follows:
2x Blessing of Might(nice for Chargers in general and Stormwind Knight in particular)
2x Hand of Protection(good for guarding a Charge from asploding removing a threat)
2x Humility(also good for guarding Chargers from asploding to remove a threat)
2x Fallen Sun Cleric(it's cheeper than Shattered. That's really the deciding facor)
2x Holy Light(did I mention that I feel safer than I actually am with this deck?)
2x Silverback Patriarch(it's four health Taunt for three. I find it to have value)
2x Blessing of Kings(turn anything into a beatstick, no questions asked)
2x Chillblade Champion(Humility lets it survive the first whack, BoK makes it big)
2x Concecrate(need lower mana removal. And more removal in general)
2x Hammer of Wrath(still need more removal, and more card draw too)
2x Sen'jin Shieldmasta(good buff target, particularly if I can get BoK same turn)
2x Stormwind Knight(5 health is worth it, given the buffs available)
2x Truesilver Champion(because I'm not a complete noob and understand removal)
2x Darkscale Healer(rarely actually use it without buffs lined up)
2x Guardian of Kings(used as just an extra 2x Holy Light that happens to be on a 5 drop)
I actually haven't tossed more than two buffs on one target in quite a while, and I actually do understand how to bait out removal. Stormwind Knight is there specifically because Chillblade keeps getting killed the turn after it arrives, so having something to bait removal was needed. Dropping a 5/5 Charge tends to work well as bait. Some changes I've considered include replacing Darkscale with 2x Bloodworm, swapping out GoK for a Corpseraiser and a Bone Drake, only got one of each, and replacing something with 2x Righteous Protector. Any suggestions for further improvement? Like replacing Holy Light with a Taunt of some description? I really need to drag the overall mana cost down.
Also, the Innervate nerf isn't actually huge. It's still getting Wild Growth on turn one, or Jade Blossom if you have two of them or one and the Coin. It's still accelerating the ramping quite well. It's still giving things ahead of curve.
Here's my current Jade Druid list:
2x Innervate(it's still doing decently well after nerfs)
2x Jade Idol(it wouldn't be a Jade Druid without it)
1x Voodoo Doctor(...I haven't seen this in over a week)
2x Mark of the Wild(slapping it on a Golem works decently)
2x Novice Engineer(need better draw power desperately)
2x Wild Growth(mana ramp is a thing in all Druid decks, right?)
2x Wrath(desperate for card draw, never use the 3 damage)
1x Crypt Lord(need to swap something out for 2x, now that I have 2x)
2x Healing Touch(haven't seen major plays from it, but it's 8 health for 3 mana)
2x Jade Blossom(another Obligatory Jade Druid card, so it's here)
2x Jade Spirit(Obligitory Jade Druid card and my dominant MotW target)
1x Strongshell Scavenger(Don't use it much because I rarely have more than one Taunt)
2x Swipe(it's the best removal I've got for the cost. This embarrasses me)
1x Nourish(I've only got one, but by God I need another. It's useful draw power)
2x Jade Behemoth(actually never use MotW on it, because it has Taunt already)
2x Spreading Plague(I only use it if outnumbered by two or more and I'm in danger. Or Strongshell is in hand)
2x Starfire(I feel like I need more removal. Is there enough removal? It draws a card, so it stays for now)
This is the closest I get to the recipe, due to dust needs. I'd dust one of the DK hero cards, but I don't actually have a good idea of what to spend the dust on. Problems of working on multiple decks at once, I guess... The two feel bad, relatively speaking for the Jade Druid, but they might actually be better than I think. What's the thread's opinion on the decklists of this poor FtP nublet?
Also, while typing I got my first WotOG pack and saw that C'thun and basic support come free with the first pack. I also got two Squirming Tentacles in the pack, which seem to be a pure upgrade over Silverback Patriarch, so they are replacing it now. There's also Blood to Ichor, which makes be think that Enrage Warrior might be a good way to go for my first serious Warrior deck. Mainly due to enough Enrage in Basic for me to feel comfortable building around it. And Crazed Worshipper seems a perfect way to put C'thun into an Enrage Warrior deck.
...I'm tempted to stick a Meat Wagon into my Paladin deck just to see what it'll summon, because the list of 0 attack minions is rather short and includes both Doomsayers, and there's enough attack boosters that a good variety of cards can be gotten from it. It'll also make Corpse Raiser more useful by giving a decent Deathrattle effect to work with.
Oh boy. I have *plenty* of suggestions for you. Will write up when I have access to a physical keyboard rather than my phone.
But to start things off, Silverback patriarch is one of the worst cards in the entire game. Not an exaggeration.
And Swipe is probably the best removal spell in the game. You shouldn't be embarrassed if it's the best you have.
Also, your perceived "lack of draw" in your decks is likely caused by the fact that you put too many low value, low cost cards in it.
Example: hand of protection/Humility/Mark of the Wild, and your healing spells
(Will explain better later)
Also, question: where do you want to go with your decks? Aggro, midrange, Control...
Alright, here we go:
You have a lot of cards that simply don't do enough. One of the core values of Hearthstone is value: If each of your cards "deals with" one enemy card, you're doing OK. If one of your card requires the opponent 2 or more to kill it, and you have the advantage.
For example, if you use Chillblade Champion + Humility to kill something, you've just spent 2 cards and are left with a 3/1 that will be easily dealt with (maybe by a hero power), so you've lost value (your two cards traded against only 1 card from the opponent).
On this note, Healing spells are often terrible value cards. you trade your card for literally nothing. Your board position does not improve because your health is higher.
So, cards that need to be removed:
2x Hand of Protection
2x Humility
2x Holy Light
Then: You put a bunch of subpar minions in your deck: Even just looking at basic cards, you can do better.
In particular, the cards that are definitely too weak are:
2x Silverback Patriarch => Literally anything else. Squirming Tentacle is OK, i guess
2x Darkscale Healer => Chillwind Yeti
2x Guardian of Kings => Frostwolf Warlord or Boulderfist Ogre
Your proposed strategy of a buff - charge deck isn't frankly ideal, but i like the fact that you created it yourself, so i'll try to stick to it.
Now, how to replace those cheap spells i suggested you remove?
Either with more OK basic minions, or if you want to spend dust...
- Aldoor Peacekeeper is a better Humility, always.
- Argent Protector is a better Hand of Protection, always
- Wild Pyromancer and Equality are staples of most non-aggro Paladin decks
- There are a lot of great good common cards that are cheap and you can throw in: Bonemare and Righteous Protector are really good, and there are more.
As for your Druid deck...
As i mentioned, you feel you need to draw your cards because the cards you have simply don't do much.
They might be cheap, but their effect is not big enough to turn the tide, or give you a significant advantage.
There are two solutions: Either you get way more card draw, or you put stronger cards in your deck. I recommend the latter.
Try removing:
2x Innervate
1x Voodoo Doctor
2x Mark of the Wild
2x Healing Touch
and replacing them with other stuff:
Senjin Shieldmasta is a good addition, as are Druid of the Claw and Druid of the Swarm.
If you want to commit more to beasts, there's always Enchanted Raven - Mark of Y'sharj - Menagerie Warden - Stranglethorn Tiger, which is fairly strong and all Commons.
Overall, try my suggestions and see how the decks "feel"
Well, healing is useful, but only if you are actually healing something with value. Like using Voodoo Doctor to get another attack out of Stormwind Knight, or make a Taunt last another turn.
Swapped Hand of Protection for 2x Argent Protector, which I didn't have because I haven't actually dug through all the cards in Standard to check. Dusted my Bloodreaver Gul'dan to get some dust to craft with, as I don't have many demons and despise random discard, so the demons I do use are heavily limited even from my collection. Also swapped Holy Light for Voodoo Doctor, which is a much more likely to be used healing amount.Quote:
So, cards that need to be removed:
2x Hand of Protection
2x Humility
2x Holy Light
Darkscale Healer has been swapped for a Corpse Raiser and a Bone Drake. I'd be replacing Guardian of Kings with 2x Bone Drake, but I only have one and it's a Rare. Frostwolf Warlord works well thanks to the existence of the two minions for one card things and the Paladin Hero Power. Given the utterly abysmal performance of Silverback when I do play it, I've swapped the Tentacles for Ironfur Grizzlies.Quote:
Then: You put a bunch of subpar minions in your deck: Even just looking at basic cards, you can do better.
In particular, the cards that are definitely too weak are:
2x Silverback Patriarch => Literally anything else. Squirming Tentacle is OK, i guess
2x Darkscale Healer => Chillwind Yeti
2x Guardian of Kings => Frostwolf Warlord or Boulderfist Ogre
It's not good for card value with low-health Charge minion, which is most of them, but it shines when I get BoK onto Stormwind Knight. Two cards and it typically eats either a hard removal or several enemy minions, after killing off a 6 or less health minion from the other guy. Not amazing, but Charge makes buffs a lot better by removing response time on buff targets. And, digging through cards as I type this, I see a 7 drop 4/8 with Windfury. This is a very good thing to pop Blessing of Might on if it can avoid removal.Quote:
Your proposed strategy of a buff - charge deck isn't frankly ideal, but i like the fact that you created it yourself, so i'll try to stick to it.
Aldoor Peacekeepr is Rare, so I won't craft one. Equality requires a following buff, and I have pretty limited buffs available, and all are single target. Wild Pyromancer has the problem of burning through healing, though the board clear when used with Equality is a nice trick for catching up, and Darkscale Healer is one of the rather few ways to make up that difference for all present minions. And I would rather not highroll by having bundles of cards that only seem right to me to play with one or two other cards in hand.Quote:
Now, how to replace those cheap spells i suggested you remove?
Either with more OK basic minions, or if you want to spend dust...
- Aldoor Peacekeeper is a better Humility, always.
- Argent Protector is a better Hand of Protection, always
- Wild Pyromancer and Equality are staples of most non-aggro Paladin decks
- There are a lot of great good common cards that are cheap and you can throw in: Bonemare and Righteous Protector are really good, and there are more.
I agree with the "stronger cards" approach. Still like to have card draw, but Auctioneer is pretty expensive and most other card draw is ****, one way or another.Quote:
As for your Druid deck...
As i mentioned, you feel you need to draw your cards because the cards you have simply don't do much.
They might be cheap, but their effect is not big enough to turn the tide, or give you a significant advantage.
There are two solutions: Either you get way more card draw, or you put stronger cards in your deck. I recommend the latter.
I replaced Strongshell Scavenger with a second Nourish that I just crafted, made a second Crypt Lord and swapped the Voodoo Doctor for 2x Razorfen Hunter to use the room gotten by removing Novice Engineer. I also swapped Mark of the Wild for a fresh 2x Mark of Nature, as I've only ever used Mark of the Wild for defence and the option for good Attack boosting is good. Particularly with the natural target of Crypt Lord acting as a beatstick.Quote:
Try removing:
2x Innervate
1x Voodoo Doctor
2x Mark of the Wild
2x Healing Touch
and replacing them with other stuff:
Senjin Shieldmasta is a good addition, as are Druid of the Claw and Druid of the Swarm.
If you want to commit more to beasts, there's always Enchanted Raven - Mark of Y'sharj - Menagerie Warden - Stranglethorn Tiger, which is fairly strong and all Commons.
I don't know if you have stonehill defender, but if you do, it's miles up on Tentacle, Grizzly and Patriarch. Voodoo Doctor is abjectly terrible. Also, Equality does not require a following buff. You run it with consecration or Pyromancer to wipe the board.
I really don't think Voodoo doctor is worth it. I suggest switching to Righteous Protector.
Corpse Raiser doesn't work well in your deck, because you don't get your buffs back when it gets resummoned. It's only good if you have a lot of strong Deathrattles, of which you have none (i guess you do have one bone drake, but that's just one)
So, keep the bone drake if you want (it's a fun card, i'll admit), but suggest switching out the Corpse Raiser.
Ironfur Grizzly is kind of a weak card, too. Do you *need* the taunt? I'd just use Chillwind Yeti. (Stonehill Defender would be the absolute best, but i doubt you have it)
Equality doens't really require buffs, it's just used to get a board clear with pyro or consecration.
Pyro, similarly, doesn't really require you to heal back. you can trade of the 1/1s before activating him, and ignore one point of damage on bigger things.
I actually think mark of the Wild is better than Mark of Nature. 4 stat points plus always taunt for 2 mana against 4 stat points plus sometimes taunt for 3 mana.
Been awhile since I last took Hearthstone semi seriously but seems like I still know how to play.
Definitely looks like you're over-prioritizing healing and taunts. Generally, healing and taunts are there for control decks or slower decks to survive aggro decks in the early game and then be able to start dropping large threats later in the game. As a F2P beginning player, you generally won't have the late game power cards or win conditions to make that work, so you're usually better off playing tempo or midrange decks where you drop larger and larger minions on curve, make good trades and establish board control, and then kill the opponent.
The problem with most taunts is that they're below vanilla, so they don't trade well. Healing without any good effect is even worse because it doesn't deal with persistent minion damage and is a terrible draw when you're ahead on board and at a very high life total. If you're behind on board, it's just delaying the inevitable.
One important test you should do when evaluating cards for your deck is the "Vanilla Test". This test is the baseline for judging whether a card is individually strong enough to be in your deck. Take the attack + health of a minion, then compare it to 2 times the mana cost. If it's higher, then it passes the vanilla test. So Chillwind Yeti (4 mana for 4/5) is the prototypical example of a minion that passes the vanilla test (9 in stats > 8). Distribution of stats does matter though; Defender is a 0/7 taunt for 2 mana (7 > 2), but it's only a speed bump and doesn't help contest the board; Magma Rager at 5/1 is much worse than a 3/3, since it dies to a lot of hero powers and also dies to incidental AoE. That's why Chillwind Yeti (4 mana for 4/5) is better than the card whose name I can't remember (4 mana for a 2/4 + a 2/1). Those don't trade as well as the Yeti does.
Any minion that passes the vanilla test and has a positive effect are some of the best cards in Hearthstone (Archnaeologist, Dragonid Operative). If you're putting in a card that doesn't pass the vanilla test, then it needs to have some good effect or fit into a synergistic portion of your deck.
A couple more caveats is low drops are great for starting the game, but decrease in value as the game continues. A 2 mana 3/2 is great when played turn 2; less so when you top deck it on turn 10. So, keep an eye on your curve to make sure you have a good number of 1s and 2s, but not too many. Likewise, once you hit around 6 mana, your cards need to start doing more than just be pile of stats. Playing a 10 mana 10/10 is terrible when a Priest can remove it for 3 mana and you spent an entire turn basically doing nothing.
For your paladin deck, you need more low drops. Look at things like Fireflies or Argent Squires, which can be buffed with a Dire Wolf Alpha or other buff cards to trade or go face. You're looking to kill your opponent relatively quickly and playing on curve is pretty good, especially against the more controlly matchups.
For your Jade Druid, again, it's tough, since you're lacking Aya and the Ultimate Infestations. Druid of the Claws would be a pretty good addition, as would Tar Creepers (which gives you some breathing room to survive aggro and build Jades).
Yeah, I converted from Highlander Priest around rank 8 and Big Priest took me the rest of the way.
Pretty standard list really:
Only truly bad matchup it has is against Quest Mage which usually can stall you out long enough even if you get that turn 3/4 Barnes.
Really need to either Thoughtsteal an Ice Block, Death Grip their Antonidas or hope one of their key pieces is the last card in deck to win that matchup.
Wow, honestly I would have never imagined I'd see 2x Free from Amber in a legend deck.
Also, wow, all 4 Old Gods have officially been in a tier 1 deck (C'Thun is debatable, but I believe Control warrior with the trick to get 3x c'thuns was at some point tier 1)
Free from Amber is good in Big Priest because it's a way to dial-a-yield another large minion without diluting your Barnes pool too much. Also, since Obsidian Statue is the only Priest minion that costs 8+ mana, it has a fairly high chance of popping up and it can be difficult for your opponent to deal with statue #3-5 cleanly.
And then there's the times you just discover another Y'shaarj or Deathwing and your opponent has to figure out where they have removal for yet another minion that devours a third of their health with every swing.
Small tip: If you want to chain to Rank 5, play Miracle Rogue. People mulligan for Keleseth Rogue and have the answers for all the early game cards you won't play anyway. You brutalize Big Priest AND Razakus Priest and you always have a big bag of answers for most other decks.
This is my list. Note that I haven't touched it (or played it) in months, so maybe some changes are needed to make it work now (pretty sure I used to run Leeroy and one Shadow strike at some point)
### Pirate Miracle
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (0) Backstab
# 2x (0) Counterfeit Coin
# 2x (0) Preparation
# 1x (0) Shadowstep
# 2x (1) Cold Blood
# 2x (1) Hallucination
# 1x (1) Patches the Pirate
# 2x (1) Southsea Deckhand
# 2x (1) Swashburglar
# 1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos
# 2x (2) Eviscerate
# 2x (2) Sap
# 2x (2) Undercity Huckster
# 1x (3) Edwin VanCleef
# 2x (3) Fan of Knives
# 2x (3) SI:7 Agent
# 2x (6) Gadgetzan Auctioneer
#
AAECAaIHBLIC7QLtBZG8Ag20AYwCzQObBdQFiAekB90IhgnysA KStgL1uwKbyAIA
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Spoiler### Miracle
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (0) Backstab
# 2x (0) Counterfeit Coin
# 2x (0) Preparation
# 1x (1) Hallucination
# 1x (1) Patches the Pirate
# 2x (1) Swashburglar
# 1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos
# 2x (2) Eviscerate
# 1x (2) Razorpetal Lasher
# 1x (3) Edwin VanCleef
# 2x (3) Fan of Knives
# 2x (3) Shadowblade
# 1x (4) Sherazin, Corpse Flower
# 1x (5) Shadowcaster
# 2x (5) Vilespine Slayer
# 2x (6) Gadgetzan Auctioneer
# 2x (6) Vanish
# 1x (9) Valeera the Hollow
# 2x (12) Arcane Giant
#
AAECAaIHCLIC7QXcrwKRvAL4wQKCwgKbyAKA0wILtAHEAZsFiA ekB4YJgrQCkrYC9bsCgcICmuICAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
A fair warning though. Midrange Hunter butchers us.
Posting that deck made me remember how fun it was and i've been playing it. Obviously on a huge winstreak since i starte from rank 25, but deck is fun as hell.
Highlights:
Went to fatigue against a Jade Druid. Stole and played Kun, Nourish and Power of the Wild (all 3 instrumental to my victory) (Obviously only I went to fatigue. he had 15 left)
Prepping Call of the Wild
Spoiler: I know you shouldn't put this many eggs in your basket, but...
Spoiler: Really?https://i.imgur.com/seVtWy8.png
Screen was capped during Un'goro, so no danger of him screwing it up with Shadow Reaper.
Holy cow, just encountered my first Big Priest. Most onesided game i've ever played, it was hilarious.
Oh no, a 5/5 ysharj and an Obsidian statue on turn 6? Poor thing.
Edit: i'm also beating 100% of the midrange hunters i'm encountering, but it's probably the low rankedness.
I really do feel that my deck is fast enough to outrace them.
And speaking of outracing.... Aggro rogue sure is strong, but i managed to kill him t5 before he could :)
I'll have to post the rogue list I'm running; I saw an interesting Giants list posted that cuts auctioneer and runs Sprint instead of having one big combo turn. There's some nice effects of that, although being able to Sprint early is important. It's very nice to be able to drop cheap spells for tempo without waiting on an auctioneer turn, though.
Anyhow, Giants rogue is basically best thing.
Gadgetzan >>>>>> Sprint, every day, every time.
I suppose I'll have to throw in the giants and see how they work out. Any proposal as to what to cut?
Current candidates are Cold blood, SI7 and Shadowstep
Shadowstep is what I'd suggest cutting, but don't run giants without Valeera. Being able to drop two giants off of one card, then vanish them back to hand, is what makes the deck tick. It's honestly very different from usual miracle. Instead of riding on a Leeroy burst finisher, you get an absurd endgame, being able to drop up to 28 giants as a theoretical maximum, although usually it's a far lower number since you drop a lot of giants at once.
I Only run 1 Shadowstep.
Hmmm... I see how DK + Vanish is extremely strong with the Giants.
I don't own Valeera so I guess I'll jut stick with the regular version (maybe slot the Leeroy back in, although I haven't really felt the need for him up to now) until I decide to craft her.
Also, meta note: against Priest, never hold on to your Cold bloods. Cast them even for just the cycle; Skulking Geist is a badly design card.
And against Rogue, if they get a turn 1/2 Keleseth + Shadowstep, you might as well concede already.
Like, this guy played Keleseth + Shadowstep on 2, then Southsea Captain on 3, which summoned a freaking 4/4 patches with charge... it's just way too hard to survive until your Auctioneer turn (unless you get a huge VanCleef AND they don't get Vilespine Slayer in time).
*Miracle rogue vs DK Warlock deck*
I got a Twisting Nether and Corrupting Mist from steals, plan to use Nether against his DK and Mist whenever I get a chance.
Turn 6, i have an SI7, he has a Despicable Dreadlord.
I could backstab and kill it, but it looks like a good setup for Mist, so I don't play anything, go face, hero power and pass.
His turn 6: He kills my SI7 with mortal Coil + Dreadlord AoE, plays a Voidwalker and hero powers.
My turn 7: now the plan would be to use Corrupting mist, since I'm at a healthy life total and it's only 5 damage, but my draw is Leeroy, I count my stuff and formulate a three turn lethal. The first step of which is...
pass.
His turn 7: hero power, Twilight Drake. He has 15 Health and a Taunt, he felt safe tapping.
My turn 8: twisting Nether. I don't plan on him living to play the DK.
His turn 8: as i imagined, Lich King.
My turn 9, I unleash my 17-damage barrage of Prep-Sap-CounterfeitCoin-Leeroy-Shadowstep-Leeroy-Eviscerate for lethal.
...Except, my train went under a long tunnel, my connection fizzled, and I DC'd.
"hey! Morning commute is a perfect time to play hs! Why don't I always do that?"
Worst part is, that guy probably thinks he had me on the ropes.
So this week's brawl is Classic Budget decks, basic/classic only and no Epics or Legendaries. classic-only era was so long ago, I can't remember it. What were the top-contender decks under those restrictions?