Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
Haha, I am proud to say I have correctly guessed the chef of Tio H. :smallcool:
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Long_shanks
And dare, what the actual hell? Mind explaining what happened in that demented mind of yours :smalleek:?
I dare say that he did an excellent job of explaining his thought processes . . .
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaq
I dare say that he did an excellent job of explaining his thought processes . . .
Yeah, you're right. Guess I'm still flabbergasted by it. I've read it three times, and I'm still unsure of how it all works.
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
Tio Hexblahday was an entertaining read not just because it showcased a new TO exploit but because it offered a wonderful narrative description of the brainstorming process of putting together something like this. And while I’ve never submitted something quite so, well, TO, I can vouch that I’ve been down a similar road many times. “Hmm, this is terrible. What tiny, slightly unique aspect can I play up? Huh, that feature’s weird, so what happens if I follow it down the rabbit hole?”
And then you bring in ideas to build around, and you go deeper down the rabbit hole and have to discard different parts of the scaffolding you built up (even as your failed ideas send you in wildly different directions), and eventually you’ve got something that seems to kind of hold up, but it’s nothing like what you expected when you started. But the thought process is entirely recognizable. That’s kind of how I felt when making Speeloxhuu and Opsablepsia. And to a lesser extent, Li’l Brudder.
Dare has absolutely succeeded at offering a delightful peek into the weird side of an Iron Chef’s mind. There are many paths to success in this contest, of course, but it often feels like this: just noodle around, riff on your weirder ideas, see if they lead to anything new (even if you have to throw away some of the stepping stones that got you there—whatever happened to using the Prestidigitation trick to gain a 1st level spell off-list?), and try to figure out when you’ve reached a point where it’s time to commit and make that submission. Even if you don’t go full TO, you might end up with something that you couldn’t have thought of from zero.
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
My mind always goes to PO. I love crunching numbers, and since the group I play with is pretty low OP, I usually take a subpar build and try to make it as good as possible. That's what I did with both my entries so far for Ninja and Hexblade, trying to eke out as much as I could while staying within the "boundaries of the game".
I've given a read to your builds Zaq and again it all feels so alien. Guess I still have a lot to learn :smallwink:
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Long_shanks
As soon as I read Erica, I knew gold was gone. Basically the same idead I had, just done way better. Well done, WhamBamSam!
Thanks. I do feel a little silly about missing the 4 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) for Obtain Familiar though, especially as I could have spared the two skill points pretty easily. Ah well. Didn't end up mattering that much.
Also, Darrin asked why I didn't use Vashar instead of Human. It comes down to just not liking Vashar. I guess it might save you from effects that specify humans, but using Vashar because my human bonus feat happens to be Vile just feels like a cheap grab for originality to me. You also took a more permissive reading of Supernatural Instincts than I allowed myself (I mostly just threw it in there as a potential "screw you DM" for when they start trying to throw breath weapons and such at you to get around Arcane Resistance), but it does indeed have some potential for cheese. One exploit I'm fond of is a Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold (or Old Half-Dragon, but let's be realistic) with Evasive Reflexes, Supernatural Instincts, Improved Combat Reflexes, and some means of carrying around their Blink Dog familiar. The Blink Dog flips Blink on and off as a series of free actions, and each time the Kobold gets to make a 5-ft step.
And speaking of cheese, daremeto, you are a national treasure (or whatever the analogue is for a D&D forum instead of a nation, "dragon's hoard" maybe?). Never change.
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhamBamSam
Thanks. I do feel a little silly about missing the 4 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) for Obtain Familiar though, especially as I could have spared the two skill points pretty easily. Ah well. Didn't end up mattering that much.
Also, Darrin asked why I didn't use Vashar instead of Human. It comes down to just not liking Vashar. I guess it might save you from effects that specify humans, but using Vashar because my human bonus feat happens to be Vile just feels like a cheap grab for originality to me. You also took a more permissive reading of Supernatural Instincts than I allowed myself (I mostly just threw it in there as a potential "screw you DM" for when they start trying to throw breath weapons and such at you to get around Arcane Resistance), but it does indeed have some potential for cheese. One exploit I'm fond of is a Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold (or Old Half-Dragon, but let's be realistic) with Evasive Reflexes, Supernatural Instincts, Improved Combat Reflexes, and some means of carrying around their Blink Dog familiar. The Blink Dog flips Blink on and off as a series of free actions, and each time the Kobold gets to make a 5-ft step.
And speaking of cheese, daremeto, you are a national treasure (or whatever the analogue is for a D&D forum instead of a nation, "dragon's hoard" maybe?). Never change.
I swear that 4 ranks in K: Arcana for Obtain Familiar and 4 ranks in Spellcraft for Practiced Spellcaster have to be the most commonly missed prereqs among Iron Chef builds. You are very far from the first chef I've seen to mess up the prereqs on one of those two feats. Regardless, Miss Eri was an excellent build. Thrall of Orcus was an excellent replacement for the "standard" Paladin of Tyranny (3 levels for the Aura of Despair is a wee bit much in an E6 build). Does "D'zhar" mean/refer to/pun as anything in particular?
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zaq
I swear that 4 ranks in K: Arcana for Obtain Familiar and 4 ranks in Spellcraft for Practiced Spellcaster have to be the most commonly missed prereqs among Iron Chef builds. You are very far from the first chef I've seen to mess up the prereqs on one of those two feats. Regardless, Miss Eri was an excellent build. Thrall of Orcus was an excellent replacement for the "standard" Paladin of Tyranny (3 levels for the Aura of Despair is a wee bit much in an E6 build). Does "D'zhar" mean/refer to/pun as anything in particular?
I'd believe it. I've definitely caught the Practiced Spellcaster mistake when judging in the past.
D'zhar comes from contracting "dragzhar," the alternate name for the Night Hunter Bat from its MoF entry into something I thought looked good. In the lore, it comes from the name of the first Drow adventurer to tame one, so I thought about making her family a human house descended from Crinti nobility a part of her backstory (and probably would if I were inserting her into an actual game), but didn't end up bothering since the last name was just an afterthought to the "Miss Eri loves company" pun.
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhamBamSam
And speaking of cheese, daremeto, you are a national treasure (or whatever the analogue is for a D&D forum instead of a nation, "dragon's hoard" maybe?). Never change.
I have to concur. I cannot believe I didn't guess earlier that this build was made by you, the specialist for TO exploits that leave you bursting in laughter at the sheer absurdity of where they lead you! :smallbiggrin:
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
I like exploring the Frontiers of where legalese readings of the rules can take you. I mean, that's why I make those skill guides. From there, one can sort of see where in the entirety of the gigantic sprawling World multiple designers worked a decade to cocreate.
I remember as a kid, I used to find bugs in video games and just noodle around with them to see how I could make the game break. "What happens if I use this jump ability to land in the background?"
The DND ruleset is very much a kin to a computer program, written in a language I'm native to. In a way, it's like I'm exploring my own language as well. I've marveled and how one claws can be interpreted in two very different ways to have a Rippling effect throughout the very fabric of the game itself.
And the designers, the weird gods they are, gave kobolds draonic age categories, seemingly to draw thousands of characters of online text through the minds of Grognards 10 years later.
I imagine computer encoders sometimes feel this way.
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
daremetoidareyo
And the designers, the weird gods they are, gave kobolds draonic age categories kobold age categories...
Fixed that for you.
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
:smallamused: Here we go...
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
I swear, I've "advanced through" this conversation before.
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
daremetoidareyo
I swear, I've "advanced through" this conversation before.
Possibly.
"Dragonwrought kobold" is basically my own personal, "Pazuzu!" at this point.
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tonymitsu
Possibly.
"Dragonwrought kobold" is basically my own personal, "Pazuzu!" at this point.
I got away with abusing that in a campaign before. Nystrul's Magic Aura and bluffed the paladin. Paladin didn't realize I was CE and got him to say it 3 times fast
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
daremetoidareyo
And the designers, the weird gods they are, gave kobolds draonic age categories, seemingly to draw thousands of characters of online text through the minds of Grognards 10 years later.
I imagine computer encoders sometimes feel this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tonymitsu
Fixed that for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thurbane
:smallamused: Here we go...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
daremetoidareyo
I swear, I've "advanced through" this conversation before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tonymitsu
Possibly.
"Dragonwrought kobold" is basically my own personal, "Pazuzu!" at this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Falontani
I got away with abusing that in a campaign before. Nystrul's Magic Aura and bluffed the paladin. Paladin didn't realize I was CE and got him to say it 3 times fast
shall we not ....
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
I was gonna participate in this one, but I ran out of time. Probably a good thing; I would have been the lowball in this field of ingenuity. Nonetheless, presented for amusement, the stubbiest of stub builds:
"Handsome" Hugh Harris, the Happy Hellbred (body) Hexblade 6
ACF: Dark Companion
Feats:
EWP Elven Courtblade
Weapon Finess
Power Attack
Ability Focus, and lots of it!
Bonus Devil Touched feats:
Devil Touched
?
?
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
I grappled with the energy drain special attack and felt confident that supernatural transformation + death devotion is indeed a viable way to have a supernatural energy drain ability due to these two primary sources about energy drain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRD
Energy Drain And Negative Levels
Some horrible creatures, especially undead monsters, possess a fearsome supernatural ability to drain levels from those they strike in combat. The creature making an energy drain attack draws a portion of its victim’s life force from her. Most energy drain attacks require a successful melee attack roll—mere physical contact is not enough. Each successful energy drain bestows one or more negative levels (the creature’s description specifies how many). If an attack that includes an energy drain scores a critical hit, it drains twice the given amount. A creature gains 5 temporary hit points (10 on a critical hit) for each negative level it bestows (though not if the negative level is caused by a spell or similar effect). These temporary hit points last for a maximum of 1 hour.
A creature takes the following penalties for each negative level it has gained:
-1 on all skill checks and ability checks.
-1 on attack rolls and saving throws.
-5 hit points.
-1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level).
If the victim casts spells, she loses access to one spell as if she had cast her highest-level, currently available spell. (If she has more than one spell at her highest level, she chooses which she loses.) In addition, when she next prepares spells or regains spell slots, she gets one less spell slot at her highest spell level.
Negative levels remain until 24 hours have passed or until they are removed with a spell, such as restoration. If a negative level is not removed before 24 hours have passed, the affected creature must attempt a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ draining creature’s racial HD + draining creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). On a success, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. On a failure, the negative level goes away, but the creature’s level is also reduced by one. A separate saving throw is required for each negative level.
A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight.
and this from the glossary in the Players Handbook p.308
Quote:
energy drain: An attack that saps a creature’s vital energy giving it negative levels, which might permanently drain the creature’s
levels.
Energy drain is a game defined term. And it's defined in a way to allow anything that saps a creatures vital energy to give it negative levels. Trust me, I had to do a lot of losing levels research to finish Tio Hexblahday.
The real sour part is what Darrin pointed out: Is death devotion an innate spell like ability? It's def a spell like ability according to the feat description and the domain feats description. The "innate" part is the piece that is an argumentative because inherent likely pertains to how a race gets their spell like abilities and doesn't include feats or class features. But some feats can only be taken at first level or have words like heritage or bloodline in them so there is at least some place to argue that it isn't a hard and fast rule as to what constitutes an "innate" spell-like ability. In the case of a hellbred who fuels his powers through steadfast devotion to a religious element aligned specifically to the power of death itself, where does one rule about powers being inherent due to the character's faith (as represented by the feat)? The power of Tio's belief is the source of his spell-like ability. Why isn't that considered innate?
Further muddying the waters is the fact that the word innate is the definition of the word. Only 1/3 of the definition of the word innate is enough to argue that it precludes the use of feats or class features.
Quote:
adjective
1. existing in one from birth; inborn; native:
innate musical talent.
2. inherent in the essential character of something:
an innate defect in the hypothesis.
3. originating in or arising from the intellect or the constitution of the mind, rather than learned through experience:
an innate knowledge of good and evil.
So...that's why i felt secure hitting the throttle on this monstroso.
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round VII)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
daremetoidareyo
The real sour part is what Darrin pointed out: Is death devotion an innate spell like ability? It's def a spell like ability according to the feat description and the domain feats description. The "innate" part is the piece that is an argumentative because inherent likely pertains to how a race gets their spell like abilities and doesn't include feats or class features. But some feats can only be taken at first level or have words like heritage or bloodline in them so there is at least some place to argue that it isn't a hard and fast rule as to what constitutes an "innate" spell-like ability. In the case of a hellbred who fuels his powers through steadfast devotion to a religious element aligned specifically to the power of death itself, where does one rule about powers being inherent due to the character's faith (as represented by the feat)? The power of Tio's belief is the source of his spell-like ability. Why isn't that considered innate?
Further muddying the waters is the fact that the word innate is the definition of the word. Only 1/3 of the definition of the word innate is enough to argue that it precludes the use of feats or class features.
"Innate" means inborn, or natural. An innate trait is an expected and perfectly normal trait to find in a given species or related species.
Almost no feats are innate.