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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
-Sentinel-
Thanks Lycunadari!
Okay, here are a few questions for a start... If others come up, I'll let you know. You don't have to answer them all, or any of them for that matter.
[*]Do you always identify with a specific gender at any given moment, or do you sometimes feel "all of the above" or "none of the above"?
I'm quite often agender, so "none of the above". I don't think I ever felt like more than one gender at the same time, but I often feel "somewhat female, but not completely" or "whatever, can't define it right now". So I experience both shifts between different genders, and shifts in intensity.
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[*]Does your gender identity shift often (i.e., over the course of a week or even a day), or do you sometimes spend long periods of time with a specific gender identity?
It varies a lot. Sometimes I feel pretty stable agender or genderqueer for weeks at a time, and sometimes I shift several times a day. Which genders I identify with how often is also different - I'm very rarely male (but not never), occasionally female and most often agender or some sort of genderqueer.
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[*]When identifying with the gender opposite your name (if you have a gendered name), do you request that people call you by a different name? If not, is it to save other people the trouble, or because it simply doesn't matter to you?
I've asked people to always call me my new name (Juniper) because it's gender neutral. I've considered using different names depending what gender I have at a time (Lucy or my legal name for female, Enion for male and Juniper for non-binary), but because I shift so often, that would be impractical so I decided to just use the neutral one all the time.
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[*]Is your genderfluidity widely known in your social circle?
I'm out to most people I'm close to (my mom, sister, dad sorta, one grandma, most friends and my former boss. My brother and his wife still don't know, as far as I know, because I see them very rarely), but otherwise no one knows. I'd like to be completely out in the future, though.
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[*]Do you change your clothing, hairstyle, etc. depending on your gender identity? If so, do you do it for yourself (to feel more comfortable), or for others (so they can tell your current gender identity)? Or perhaps a bit of both?
I'm facing a dilemma there. I love feminine clothes, skirts especially and everything that has bright colours or flowery patterns. But most of the time I don't want to be perceived as female, so I usually (try to) dress androgynously (with moderate success). If I'm going to meet new people, I make more of an effort to look non-female, same when I'm particularly dysphoric.
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[*]Are you feeling less happy or less comfortable than usual when your gender identity is opposite your biological sex?
Yes, though it varies how dysphoric I am. Interestingly, I'm usually less dysphoric when I'm completely male than when I'm non-binary. But otherwise I actually tend to me more happy when I'm agender.
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If you know other genderfluid people who would have a different answer to one of the questions above, don't hesitate to tell me about it.
These are all my personal answers and I know that you'll get very different ones if you ask other people. :smallsmile:
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
WarKitty
Anyone know a short way of saying "people who have been commonly publicly read as a particular gender for some period in their lives"?
(Historically) perceived [gender]
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
@ Lycunadari: Thanks a lot. This info will be very useful. :smallwink:
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
-Sentinel-
Thanks Lycunadari!
Okay, here are a few questions for a start... If others come up, I'll let you know. You don't have to answer them all, or any of them for that matter.
- Do you always identify with a specific gender at any given moment, or do you sometimes feel "all of the above" or "none of the above"?
- Does your gender identity shift often (i.e., over the course of a week or even a day), or do you sometimes spend long periods of time with a specific gender identity?
- When identifying with the gender opposite your name (if you have a gendered name), do you request that people call you by a different name? If not, is it to save other people the trouble, or because it simply doesn't matter to you?
- Is your genderfluidity widely known in your social circle?
- Do you change your clothing, hairstyle, etc. depending on your gender identity? If so, do you do it for yourself (to feel more comfortable), or for others (so they can tell your current gender identity)? Or perhaps a bit of both?
- Are you feeling less happy or less comfortable than usual when your gender identity is opposite your biological sex?
If you know other genderfluid people who would have a different answer to one of the questions above, don't hesitate to tell me about it.
I no longer identify as genderfluid, but I spent about a year as it, so I figure I'll answer.
1) I was pretty much always either male or female, didn't really have much in between. I guess I had times when I didn't mind that much, and just went with whatever I'd been presenting as lately. They didn't tend to last long though.
2) Mine was a fairly reliable monthly change. Not down to the date or anything, but I'd spend about a month to at most 6 weeks as one gender, then I'd usually flip overnight and spend a month to six weeks as the other.
3) I adopted a gender neutral name, Tam, so as to avoid shifting names regularly and confusing everyone. It's now a little irritating as I prefer the full feminine form, Tamsin, but people that knew me back then stick to Tam.
4) It was, I guess. Not relevant anymore.
5) Changed my clothes, and mostly for myself. I was dressing in fairly (though subtly) feminine clothes even when identifying as male, though.
6) More. Towards the end of the year I found I was looking forward more and more to the phases I spent female, and not enjoying the phases I spent male.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
...dammit. Turns out they haven't roundly ignored that piece of fluff. Time Lords can swap sex when they regenerate >_>
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Heliomance
...dammit. Turns out they haven't roundly ignored that piece of fluff. Time Lords can swap sex when they regenerate >_>
Oh? +10chars
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Spoiler: Major spoilers for the latest episode
Show
The Master's come back as a woman.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
You know, if I had a penny for every time I wished I watched a particular show just so I could legitimately get involved in debates about it... My life would be rather more copper-filled than it is now. :smallfrown:
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
The main thread is back. We can stop using this one for practically everything beside what it's meant for.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
I had an idea occur to me about a particular way of visually modelling human sexuality--specifically, as a tetrahedron. I'm trying to figure out whether I came up with it, or if it's an existing idea I heard somewhere else and then forgot about until now. Does that ring any bells for anybody?
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
I consider myself a mix of genderfluid, agender and gender apathetic. In other words, gender identity not always being straightforward, I'm unsure if I'm agender, genderfluid, or have a fixed, existing gender but don't care about it. I fluctuate between how I feel about it. I'll answer the question though in case anyone is interested in my perspective.
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Do you always identify with a specific gender at any given moment, or do you sometimes feel "all of the above" or "none of the above"?
My preface probably answered this one. Since I sometimes think "maybe I'm actually agender", I obviously don't always identify with a specific gender. I would say that I almost never identify with a specific gender, and when I do, it's in a very dim way that makes me doubt myself about it.
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Does your gender identity shift often (i.e., over the course of a week or even a day), or do you sometimes spend long periods of time with a specific gender identity?
It is hard to track because it's always very, very small, but I would say it varies a lot. I will feel more feminine or more masculine in various contexts, depending on the group of people I'm with, the location I'm in, the activity I'm taking part in, the clothes I am wearing (to some extent. This one is also the other way around. I will feel like wearing specific clothes based on how I feel, and if I am forced to wear the "wrong" clothes I will feel extremely uncomfortable. But sometimes I adapt to the clothes I am wearing as well).
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When identifying with the gender opposite your name (if you have a gendered name), do you request that people call you by a different name? If not, is it to save other people the trouble, or because it simply doesn't matter to you?
I don't really care. Although my name is Alice and several of my childhood friends call me Al, and I really like it because it's much more gender-neutral (although mostly masculine) so I guess I would prefer a gender-neutral name. I also tend to prefer people to call me nicknames, which feel less gendered, or screen names. Some people I know in real life pretty much exclusively talk to me/about me as my screen name (not this one, another one) and I wanted to make it my legal middle name when I got married, but it turned out you can only pick your maiden name as your new middle name so it didn't work out.
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Is your genderfluidity widely known in your social circle?
Not really. I only recently realised the importance people place on gender, and I'm still confused about what my gender identity really is so explaining it to someone else doesn't seem like it would work too well. On the other hand, people who know me well sometimes make gender-based comments that make it seem like they figured it out. It's not rare for instance to hear the same person say of me that I am "a gay guy in a woman's body" and "very feminine" within a few sentences, meaning that their impression of me involves both "modes" if I'm making sense.
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Do you change your clothing, hairstyle, etc. depending on your gender identity? If so, do you do it for yourself (to feel more comfortable), or for others (so they can tell your current gender identity)? Or perhaps a bit of both?
Because I'm mostly around the middle, my impression can change so often, and my feelings aren't extreme one way or the other, I try to be around the middle for things that can't be changed easily. It usually results in a sort of mish-mash. For instance, because I have a curvy figure, I tend to have more masculine hairstyles. Clothes-wise, I'm usually on the masculine side of neutral, with feminine clothing being rare, and usually being extremely feminine when that happens. If "forced" to wear feminine clothing (for instance a dress for a formal occasion) when I'm not feeling it, it's pretty harsh, I feel completely weird and like my body is awkward and not the way it should be. The same thing happens if I wanted to wear very feminine clothing and ended up in baggy clothes instead (I wear a lot of baggy clothes when I'm feeling less feminine because they flaunt my figure less).
I have given up on the idea of looking androgynous (I can't get flat at all, I tried binders and I still looked curvier than your average female) but by having masculine hairstyles, clothes and accessories I'm "balancing" it out, I guess you could say.
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Are you feeling less happy or less comfortable than usual when your gender identity is opposite your biological sex?
Define "opposite"? I can't say I often feel super male, but I almost never feel super female either. I usually feel kinda male, I would say it's my neutral, on the other hand it could be a way of compensating for my female body. Maybe if I had a male body my neutral would be kinda female, I have no clue.
When I'm more masculine I can get a bit depressed about my figure. I'm fine with having a female body regardless of my gender but sometimes I wish it was more towards the androgynous side so I could pass either way, or at least have the potential to. Right now I could grow a full beard and people would call me "ma'am". Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to take testosterone. On the other hand I don't think that's really for me either.
I would say that outside of that, I feel more comfortable and more confident when I feel male. I'm sure it's a society thing. I'm less threatened if I feel less like the gender that's most likely to be victimised. Makes sense to me.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Q: What is the term( or is there a term) for when your romantic and sexual orientations are aligned? For example heterosexuality and heteroromantic equal hetero-normative don't they? Or is that gender expression?
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
I'm not so sure there is one. Maybe we should make one up.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Serpentine
I'm not so sure there is one. Maybe we should make one up.
Oh! *Raises hand*
*Realizes this is a thread not a classroom*
I vote on calling that Quesadilla and the non matchy one Nachos!!!
Both are really tasty, but one is less confusing to explain than the other.
I may not eaten yet today....
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
Romanti-sexually congruent? If anyone can come up with a more scientific term that would be better, I thought that up off the top of my head.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Marnath
Q: What is the term( or is there a term) for when your romantic and sexual orientations are aligned? For example heterosexuality and heteroromantic equal hetero-normative don't they? Or is that gender expression?
Lucky? Not having your romantic and sexual orientations match must complicate one's life quite a bit...
I kind of tend to use the -sexual word alone for simplicity when it's the case. Unless the two don't match, I believe it's redundant to use both. As in, I assume someone who labels themselves homosexual that they're also homoromantic unless otherwise noted (that's a matter of context as well, I might not be as quick to assume that in a discussion that's about the very subject of the separation of sexual and romantic attraction).
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Mono Vertigo
Lucky? Not having your romantic and sexual orientations match must complicate one's life quite a bit...
I kind of tend to use the -sexual word alone for simplicity when it's the case. Unless the two don't match, I believe it's redundant to use both. As in, I assume someone who labels themselves homosexual that they're also homoromantic unless otherwise noted (that's a matter of context as well, I might not be as quick to assume that in a discussion that's about the very subject of the separation of sexual and romantic attraction).
Yeah, that's about how I do it.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
How common is it that someone finds one gender sexually attractive and another gender romantically attractive? Can anyone describe such an experience?
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Mono Vertigo
Lucky? Not having your romantic and sexual orientations match must complicate one's life quite a bit...
I kind of tend to use the -sexual word alone for simplicity when it's the case. Unless the two don't match, I believe it's redundant to use both. As in, I assume someone who labels themselves homosexual that they're also homoromantic unless otherwise noted (that's a matter of context as well, I might not be as quick to assume that in a discussion that's about the very subject of the separation of sexual and romantic attraction).
That's basically what I do. Even though it makes little sense, because what people see of other is romantic, not sexual, behaviour. But oh well, it helps being understood.
Btw, my sexual and romantic orientations don't match, I self-identify as an asexual lesbian.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Marnath
Q: What is the term( or is there a term) for when your romantic and sexual orientations are aligned? For example heterosexuality and heteroromantic equal hetero-normative don't they? Or is that gender expression?
Heteronormative is both being heterosexual and heteroromantic and also conforming to male and female gender roles while being cisgender to the best of my knowledge. I believe it has been observed to take an awful lot of work and seem pretty exhausting.
Heterosexuality implies heteroromantic attitudes if there's no further qualification, same as homosexuality implying homoromanticism. Pansexuality also implies the romantic aptitudes of the person involved because of how it differs by definition from other sexualities.
It gets more mucky with Asexuality and Bisexuality though, because it's morally wrong to assume that asexuals are aromantic if they don't specify and not all bisexuals are interested in romantic relationships with all sexes they are interested in sexual liaisons with.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Coidzor
Heteronormative is both being heterosexual and heteroromantic and also conforming to male and female gender roles while being cisgender to the best of my knowledge. I believe it has been observed to take an awful lot of work and seem pretty exhausting.
Heterosexuality implies heteroromantic attitudes if there's no further qualification, same as homosexuality implying homoromanticism. Pansexuality also implies the romantic aptitudes of the person involved because of how it differs by definition from other sexualities.
It gets more mucky with Asexuality and Bisexuality though, because it's morally wrong to assume that asexuals are aromantic if they don't specify and not all bisexuals are interested in romantic relationships with all sexes they are interested in sexual liaisons with.
Exhausting compared to what? The level of effort involved in a relationship can be assumed to be similar across the non-aromantic spectrum. The only other things I can think of are that heteronormativity has the highest risk and expectation of pregnancy and that the learning curve for pleasing someone that has a piece of equipment you don't can be difficult, depending on the method and biology of the individuals in question.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Icewraith
Exhausting compared to what? The level of effort involved in a relationship can be assumed to be similar across the non-aromantic spectrum. The only other things I can think of are that heteronormativity has the highest risk and expectation of pregnancy and that the learning curve for pleasing someone that has a piece of equipment you don't can be difficult, depending on the method and biology of the individuals in question.
Non-heterosexual relationships involve much more effort—not necessarily within the relationship, but with respect to social perceptions.
It's also no good to assume that because two people both have, say, vaginas, that they both like the same stuff. Not gonna go into examples because that gets too graphic, but suffice it to say that people with the same equipment might like very different things and derive pleasure in very different ways.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Icewraith
Exhausting compared to what?
Being one's self. :smalltongue:
Being gay is something that someone can't get rid of, even if they sleep with hundreds of members of the opposite sex. Do something even vaguely inappropriate* with a member of the same sex and you've lost your heteronormativity forever.
Or, y'know, being a man and liking knitting, bam, no more heteronormativity for you, Mister.
*by the standards of heteronormativity.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Coidzor
Heteronormative is both being heterosexual and heteroromantic and also conforming to male and female gender roles while being cisgender to the best of my knowledge. I believe it has been observed to take an awful lot of work and seem pretty exhausting.
I guess you mean, exhausting if it goes contrary to your real sexual+romantic+gender identity? Because if it doesn't, then it's the path of least resistance ie. the least exhausting of all.
(Edit)
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Originally Posted by
Coidzor
Do something even vaguely inappropriate* with a member of the same sex and you've lost your heteronormativity forever.
Or, y'know, being a man and liking knitting, bam, no more heteronormativity for you, Mister.
*by the standards of heteronormativity.
This feels a little bit of an extreme description to me. Things may be black and white, but never that black and white.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Gwynfrid
How common is it that someone finds one gender sexually attractive and another gender romantically attractive? Can anyone describe such an experience?
I'm bisexual. I thoroughly appreciate hot men and women both. I still call myself a lesbian though - I'm not romantically interested in men at all.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Gwynfrid
I guess you mean, exhausting if it goes contrary to your real sexual+romantic+gender identity? Because if it doesn't, then it's the path of least resistance ie. the least exhausting of all.
This feels a little bit of an extreme description to me. Things may be black and white, but never that black and white.
The observation, generally made by non-heterosexuals, or at least, people who aren' straight men, does tend to be a bit tongue-in-cheek, yes. I suppose I bungled the delivery by just referencing the joke instead of actually adapting the joke enough to make it properly, sorry.
Indeed, the only downside is that hyperbole isn't as extreme as one might wish it were.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
noparlpf
Non-heterosexual relationships involve much more effort—not necessarily within the relationship, but with respect to social perceptions.
It's also no good to assume that because two people both have, say, vaginas, that they both like the same stuff. Not gonna go into examples because that gets too graphic, but suffice it to say that people with the same equipment might like very different things and derive pleasure in very different ways.
Differences in response between two organs with the same overall structure should be easier to learn than an organ with a completely different structure. Compare a bass guitarist learning classical guitar to the same bassist learning the oboe, for instance. The guitar is tuned higher and has a couple extra strings, but much of the theory holds even if you have to learn to strum. The oboe requires a completely different set of muscle movements (and brings breathing into the equation) since it's a wind instrument. Aside from the basics of reading music and overall agility and stamina of your hands, none of the techniques you learn playing bass guitar transfer to the oboe.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Icewraith
Differences in response between two organs with the same overall structure should be easier to learn than an organ with a completely different structure. Compare a bass guitarist learning classical guitar to the same bassist learning the oboe, for instance. The guitar is tuned higher and has a couple extra strings, but much of the theory holds even if you have to learn to strum. The oboe requires a completely different set of muscle movements (and brings breathing into the equation) since it's a wind instrument. Aside from the basics of reading music and overall agility and stamina of your hands, none of the techniques you learn playing bass guitar transfer to the oboe.
There's actually less differences between bits than people think, and when you for example bring trans people and HRT into the picture things get muddied up even more. Like, my bits are pretty different from your average cis guy's now, both in response, sensitivity, even how the skin feels and how they smell and everything, (sex) hormones have a big influence on things like that.
But I think noparlpf's point is more, don't make assumptions on how someone relates to their body sexually based on their genitals and what their body looks like. Communicate with your sexual partner(s) about their needs and desires, that a very good rule in general even in straight relationships.
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Gwynfrid
How common is it that someone finds one gender sexually attractive and another gender romantically attractive? Can anyone describe such an experience?
I think I am possibly something along the lines of bisexual demiheteroromantic. I find men and women attractive and would like to mess around with some sometime. However, it is extremely rare that I develop true romantic feelings for someone, and I expect the chance that I'll so fall for a woman is approaching zero (although if it does happen I don't object to the idea, it'll just be a severe statistical outlier).
Copied from the r'ships thread, cuz I thought there might be some more specific experience over here.
I have a pair of guy friends, a couple. They're looking for... Ever heard of a Unicorn? Basically they're looking for a woman to join their relationship in an exclusive trio, with the long-term goal of making a family (no pressure or anything!). Aside from this, they're both fairly vanilla, and so aren't keen on looking on Fetlife or in the local BDSM community, and haven't had much luck with OKCupid. How should they go about looking for this particular type of person?
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Re: LGBTAI+ Questions, Information and Discussion thread!
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Originally Posted by
Coidzor
The observation, generally made by non-heterosexuals, or at least, people who aren' straight men, does tend to be a bit tongue-in-cheek, yes. I suppose I bungled the delivery by just referencing the joke instead of actually adapting the joke enough to make it properly, sorry.
Obviously, the joke was entirely lost on me :smallamused:
I guess it is a little difficult to get a joke when one's background is so distant from the experience the joke is rooted in. The limitation is as much in my reading as it is in your delivery.
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Originally Posted by
Coidzor
Indeed, the only downside is that hyperbole isn't as extreme as one might wish it were.
To follow on the theme of "are we talking the same language here?", I must admit I have no clue what you mean with that.
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Originally Posted by
Miriel
Btw, my sexual and romantic orientations don't match, I self-identify as an asexual lesbian.
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Originally Posted by
Heliomance
I'm bisexual. I thoroughly appreciate hot men and women both. I still call myself a lesbian though - I'm not romantically interested in men at all.
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Originally Posted by
Serpentine
I think I am possibly something along the lines of bisexual demiheteroromantic. I find men and women attractive and would like to mess around with some sometime. However, it is extremely rare that I develop true romantic feelings for someone, and I expect the chance that I'll so fall for a woman is approaching zero (although if it does happen I don't object to the idea, it'll just be a severe statistical outlier).
OK, I understand those three viewpoints. They are tangentially relevant to my question, but I don't think they really answer it.