I believe they're referring to the Styx as the path that crosses the lower planes at the "top" of those planes. If I've understood correctly, they're looking for equivalent paths that cross the planes at the "bottom".
Printable View
According to MoP, you can simply walk overland from plane to plane, if you know the right place to do so, without requiring a formal conduit like the Styx or a portal. The two planes gradually just merge from one to the other in certain areas, but only on the surface layer of each plane (or some stand-in approximation of the same for layerless Planes like Limbo and Mechanus) (see Walking the Borders, pg 86).
As far as I'm aware, that wasn't the case in 2nd ed. Planescape, and these points between the surfaces of the outer planes were not gradual transitions, but single permanent delineated portals. In some instances these did use formal planar pathways as well (pretty sure Pandesmos to Pazunia was indeed a branch of the Styx)
I'm asking if the Great Wheel is just a metaphor beyond that or if instead, there is enough physicality to the concept that there could an analogous series of pathways around its "lower surface" as well. For example, could there be a place in the hinterlands of Ocanthus which gradually transitions into Nessus?
I'm pretty sure the idea of transitionary areas also existed in some form in Planescape. I do know that transitionary areas are spotty (so for example it's possible to miss one if one goes a mile to the right or whatever), and that both (natural) portals and transitionary areas are restricted to the first layer of a plane (Edit: or at least, get progressively rarer with each lower layer. It may also depend on the plane; according to FC 2 in the chapter on the Blood War that the devils ensure no natural entry into layers lower than Avernus, while the Abyss allows access to lower layers for invaders, pretty much at random). The "Bottom", as you call it, is more like pillars reaching out into the void, with the "tops" of those pillars (the lowest reaches of the respective planes) being farther removed from each other than anything else.
Not asking to ellaborate on the Dragonlance part specifically, but this discussion makes me wonder if there's any particular bit of juicy lore involving chronomancy you might like to mention. I don't recall hearing references to stuff like alternate timelines, or setting/lore consequences of time travel, outside of the Chronomancer sourcebook and Raistlin's shenanigans. I dunno, I like that topic, but I can see how it can get really awkward from a canon perspective. Any examples or commentary in that area?
As a small data point, coming from my 2E Planescape books, the Outlands sits at the middle of the Great Wheel, so theoretically you should be able to walk into any of the other 16 planes by just walking away from the Spire, going by this "physical connection" theory. However, the books specifically state that, beyond the ring of the Gate Towns (which are specifically where the influence of the connected planes are said to be strongest), you move into the Hinterlands, which don't connect to anything and in fact get metaphysically farther from the Great Wheel planes the further you go. The only places where the Outlands touch other planes are to a certain extent the gate towns (which are said to be "almost there", and in fact may slip into the adjoining plane if the overall mood there becomes similar enough to it), and more literally at the gates themselves. Sure, you might say that this physical pathway thing applies more specifically to the "ring", but since planes (and their layers) are generally meant to be infinite, I don't really see that myself.
I don't really see the contradiction between "infinite planes" and "existence of transition areas". Not only did I mention before that they are spotty (so for example: you and I start a mile away from each other and walk of in parallel in the same direction. I hit the transition area and reach the other plane, you don't and continue on forever), the Inner Planes also have transitionary areas and are also infinite. And nobody sees a contradiction there.
Could Heat Metal be used to cook in the phlogiston without causing an explosion?
Very little; we know that Tharzax has had orc worshipers on remote isles; that its holy symbol appears to be a skull with spiders crawling from its eyes - I'd go with a skull with a centipede crawling from one eye to the next; and that it is associated with poisonous vermin, particularly spider swarms and monstrous centipedes. We also know that it has possessed sufficient power to empower a cleric at least to the point of being able to cast animate dead.
Now given how long it's taken me to get to this question...
Spoiler: ...I must have been busyTharzax, the Chattering Prince
Huge Outsider (Chaotic, Evil, Extraplanar, Tanar'ri)
HD 26d8+130 (247 hp)
Speed 60 ft. (12 squares); climb 40 ft., fly 40 ft. (average)
Init: +13
AC 39; touch 17; flat-footed 32 (+22 natural, +9 Dex, -2 size)
BAB +26; Grp +45
Attack Claw +35 melee (2d6+11 and poison) or bite +35 melee (1d6+16, 19-20/x2) or sting +35 melee (3d6+11 + 1 vile, 19-20/x3) or centipede whip +36 melee (3d6+11 and venom)
Full Attack 2 claws +35 melee (2d6+11 and poison) and 6 bites +33 melee (1d6+5, 19-20/x2) and sting +35 melee (3d6+5 + 1 vile, 19-20/x3); or centipede whip +36/+31/+26/+21 melee (3d6+11 and venom) and 6 bites +33 melee (1d6+5, 19-20/x2) and sting +35 melee (3d6+5 + 1 vile, 19-20/x3)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft. (5 ft. with bites, 20 ft. with centipede whip, 30 ft. with drill sting)
Special Attacks Acid jet, centipede whip, chatter, drill sting, poison, skirmish (+5d6, +5 AC), spell-like abilities, summon tanar'ri
Special Qualities All-around vision, DR 20/cold iron, epic, and good, evasion, freedom of movement, immunity to electricity and poison, resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10, second wind, skitter, SR 35, telepathy 300 ft., tremorsense 60 ft.
Saves Fort +27 Ref +24 Will +23
Abilities Str 32, Dex 28, Con 30, Int 20, Wis 26, Cha 28
Skills Yep
Feats Combat Reflexes, Dark SpeechBoVD, Dodge, Great FortitudeB, Improved Critical (sting), Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Power Attack, Vile Natural Attack (sting)B, Weapon Focus (centipede whip)
Environment Infinite Layers of the Abyss (Driller's Hives)
Organization Solitary
Challenge Rating 22
Treasure Quadruple standard
Alignment Chaotic evil
A hideous insectile demon, the towering Tharzax is a blend of many nightmares. From the waist up, it appears to be a chitin-crusted demon with six insectlike wings and a triangular plate on its brow, while below the waist coil the segments and skittering legs of a monstrous centipede, terminating in a wicked scorpion's stinger. Its clawed arms flex and glisten with some vile fluid. Six jagged and forcipuled maws scattered haphazardly about its torso chant, chitter, and drone in strange tones that seem alternately soothing and terrifying. Perhaps worst of all are its many eyes, which betray both a foul cunning and also an unearthly disinterest in matters before it, as though the demon lord is so busy seeing beyond what is in front of it that its next victims are all but invisible to its mind, utterly irrelevant and insignificant except as a minor speedbump.
Tharzax is little-known in the Abyss, let alone beyond, but its layer is one of the first to have been catalogued by the Fraternity of Order, who have placed an interdiction on further travel to the Driller's Hives, despite it being only the second layer, for the sheer foulness and pointless horror of the place. Crawling and scuttling demons fester throughout the dark and claustrophobic tunnels, always glistening with toxins, spittle, and still-curing resins exuded around the bodies of the unwary who have fallen into this realm and succumbed to the terrible disease endemic to it, which causes their flesh to spawn insect eggs, their contents ready to devour the remains of their former hosts.
Tharzax is not known to have any particular allies in the Abyss, though hints exist that its servants may have contact with the realms of Lupercio, Lolth, and possibly Obox-Ob. Tharzax is capable of conferring a small amount of divine power to its rare cultists on the Material Plane, many of whom are druids or orc defectors from the faith of Yurtrus, a former ally (insofar as Yurtrus ever allies with anyone) of the Chattering Prince. Some powers of pestilence, disease, and suffering have made overtures to Tharzax, but it frequently seems almost indifferent, only occasionally dispatching one of its jarabu or using a rift to unleash a swarm of acariax.
Spoiler: The Dark of TharzaxThough Tharzax itself only the dimmest awareness of its origins and would not be able to articulate the facts to itself even if it cared to dwell on them, a shadow probes ever at its mind, one exacerbated by the ekolids that creep through the Chattering Prince's domain. In truth, Tharzax is a fragment of a greater being, a kernel of festering chaos and evil that was ripped from the flesh of another, an act that caused the functional death of the original superior demon but which could not diminish that terrifying fiend's overall stature within the Abyss - merely disperse it. The Abyss drank the ichor of the slain demon prince and regurgitated it in new flesh, fed on mortal souls and allowed to grow fat in its own horrid layer.
For Tharzax was torn from Obox-ob.
Even now, the former Prince of Demons slowly weaves a plot to draw Tharzax closer to his own sphere of influence, with the goal of devouring his lesser half and annexing the Driller's Hives, ready to challenge Pazuzu for supremacy over Pazunia and emerge restored to his full and terrible glory. Preventing the fruition of this plan is the fact that another currently holds the title of Prince of Demons, and Obox-ob's bid for absolute power cannot succeed while his ultimate strength remains capped under Demogorgon's reign. For its part, Tharzax has no awareness of or interest in this scheme, and the Chattering Prince delights in spreading its own forms of misery across the Prime, unconcerned with what its future might bring.
Acid Jet (Ex) As a standard action, Tharzax can shoot a line of acid 100 ft. long and 5 ft. wide from one of its claws. Creatures caught in the line suffer 20d4 acid damage (Reflex DC 34 half). The save DC is Strength-based.
All-Around Vision (Ex) Tharzax's many eyes provide it with a +4 bonus to Search and Spot checks. Opponents gain no benefit when flanking Tharzax.
Centipede Whip (Su) Tharzax is always accompanied by a few fiendish monstrous centipedes, and has the ability to seize one and infuse it with a mote of its own foul essence, turning the arthropod into a whip that can be wielded to deal slashing and piercing damage, as well as delivering a potent venom from the centipede's bite. If Tharzax loses its whip or releases it from its grasp, it may as a standard action retrieve another monstrous centipede from a square within its reach.
Venom (Ex) The centipede whip's bite delivers a foul injury poison. The initial damage is 2d6 Dex (Fort DC 33 negates), with an additional 2d6 Dex damage 1 minute later. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Chatter (Su) At all times, the many mouths covering the lower torso of Tharzax chatter, drone, moan, and whisper in a maddening cacophony that besieges listeners. At the start of its turn, Tharzax may choose to adjust the chatter to produce a different effect (this does not require an action). Only one of these effects may be active at a given time. All chatter effects have a range of 60 ft. (doubled to 120 ft. in cavernous settings with few noise-deadening barriers such as wooden obstacles, or on the second layer of the Abyss, the Driller's Hives) and are mind-affecting sonic effects which can be blocked with silence and similar methods that interfere with the ability to hear the chatter. Save DCs are Charisma-based.
Discordant Voices (Su) As song of discord (Will DC 32 negates). Unless a creature exceeds the saving throw DC by at least 4, it is confused for 1 round even on a successful saving throw.
Mad Chittering (Su) As suggestion, with a different suggestion allowed for each victim (Will DC 32 negates). Unless a creature exceeds the saving throw DC by at least 4, it is confused for 1 round even on a successful saving throw.
Sleep Drone (Su) Affected creatures fall asleep for 24 hours (Will DC 32 negates). Normal methods of rousing a sleeping creature allow the sleeper a new saving throw if they are still within the area of the sleep drone; otherwise, they function as normal. Unless a creature exceeds the saving throw DC by at least 4, it is dazed for 1 round even on a successful saving throw.
Unsettling Threnody (Su) Affected creatures are frightened for 10 minutes (Will DC 32 negates). Unless a creature exceeds the saving throw DC by at least 4, it is shaken for 1 round even on a successful saving throw.
Drill Sting (Ex) Tharzax's wicked sting deals damage as an adamantine, chaotic, epic, evil, magic weapon. On a successful hit, Tharzax may drill into the victim as a swift action, making a second attack roll against the same target with its sting immediately at a -5 penalty and doubling the critical range of its tail on this second attack. While Tharzax generally makes use of this ability to drill through the terrain of its cavernous lair, it can be a horrific and violent way to make an example of a victim unable to escape the ripping, lashing teeth of the sting.
Evasion (Ex) As a rogue.
Freedom of Movement (Su) Tharzax benefits from a continuous freedom of movement effect, as the spell (CL 20th).
Poison (Ex) Tharzax's claws are coated in a contact poison that deals 2d4 Wisdom damage (Fort DC 33 negates) with a further 2d4 Wisdom damage 1 minute later. 2 points of damage from each instance of poison damage is considered drain instead.
Second Wind (Ex) As a swift action, Tharzax may give up its skirmish ability to recover 50 hit points. It regains its skirmish ability after 1 hour. This ability cannot be used if Tharzax has already given up its skirmish ability; it must possess the ability to be able to give it up.
Skirmish (Ex) When Tharzax moves at least 10 ft. on its turn, its attacks deal an additional 5d6 damage until the end of its turn, and it benefits from a +5 competence bonus to AC until the start of its next turn.
Skitter (Ex) Tharzax ignores the effects of difficult terrain and never needs to make a Balance check to cross terrain, regardless of effects such as grease and ice. As a swift action, Tharzax may move up to 15 ft. by either climbing or regular overland movement.
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) At will - astral projection, blasphemy (DC 26), desecrate, detect good, detect law, detect magic, displacement, giant vermin, greater dispel magic, greater teleport, infestation of maggots (DC 22), plane shift, shapechange, telekinesis, unhallow, unholy aura (DC 27), unholy blight (DC 23), web (DC 21); 3/day - creeping doom, symbol of insanity; 1/day - antipathy (DC 27), maw of chaosSC (DC 28). Caster level 20th, save DCs Charisma-based.
Summon Tanar'ri (Sp) Once per day Tharzax may summon 2d6 jarabu, 1d4 adaruMMV, or 1d4 chasmesFCI. This ability is the equivalent of an 8th level spell (CL 20th).
I mean, certainly not from all the most extreme layers; there is no external path to Chronias, for example, nor do I expect there would be one to Nessus, or Agathion. Some deeper layers might have consistent portals, but I would be surprised if you could successfully cross through even a quarter of the Wheel through inner layers (discounting via for instance the Styx).Quote:
Is the Great Wheel at all likely to have an inverse lower surface that a planewalker could travel around by walking the correct paths from border to border, as on it's "top"?
No.
I mean Chronomancer is the big one, and it even mentions how Krynn in particular is prone to that sort of thing. There have been occasional wonky time shenanigans at places like Tovag Baragu, parts of the Demiplane of Dread because of course, but part of the issue (again as laid out in Chronomancer) is that time shenanigans are heavily policed and with very good reason. The Lady of Pain would smack anyone for even daring to try within Sigil, the Chosen of Mystra support chronomancers in preventing temporal incursions in Realmspace, the Circle of Nine likewise in Greyspace, time travel in the Crimson Sphere would be a monumentally stupid idea, and it's not possible in Bloodspace or Shardspace to use conventional methods of time travel due to the cataclysmic events in those spheres.
If you could keep it going long enough, yes. Phlogiston only reacts to sparks or flame, not simple heat.
This is awesome. I particularly like the dark on this, and also the centipede whip is pretty awesome. Chatter is brutal.
I would comment that a standard action to heal 50 hp is a no-go at CR 22; that’s spending a turn to undo like half of a turn from a PC. I’d consider a move action for second wind.
Hah! That’s Athas, right?
What’s Bloodspace..?
Also, curious which of Shardspace’s cataclysms you had in mind for this one? Can’t recall any instances of time travel coming up there, but then there have been a lot of cataclysms...
What, if anything, is the difference between a slain outsider "merging wih their plane" and just straight up dying?
The books seem to treat it as something distinct from dying outright and ceasing to exist, but taken literally it sounds like just dying. In fact I've seen similar phrases used as the definition of dying ("if living things didn't actively work to prevent it, they would eventually merge with their surroundings and cease to exist as autonomous beings. This is what hapoens when they die" -Richard Dawkins)
Nice. That stuff on Tharzax really seems to... fit. Thanks a lot.
A couple of years ago you wrote a really odd adventure path based on the Hinterlands of the Outlands. I'd love to have a re-read if somone could link to it again.
Thinking about that though, and SirKazam's comment above, is it possible to Walk the Borders through the Hinterlands to reach an Outer Plane, without using the Gate Town itself. If so, how would one go about doing so?
Since I couldn't bait Tzardok into it...
Spoiler: JarabuJarabu
Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Evil, Extraplanar, Tanar'ri)
HD 6d8+18 (45 hp)
Speed 40 ft. (8 squares); climb 40 ft.
Init: +8
AC 20; touch 14; flat-footed 16 (+6 natural, +4 Dex)
BAB +6; Grp +10
Attack Claw +10 melee (1d4+4) or pincer +11 melee (2d6+6 and poison, x3)
Full Attack 2 claws +10 melee (1d4+4) and pincer +9 melee (2d6+2 and poison, x3)
Space 5 ft. Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Constrict 2d6+6, improved grab, poison, spell-like abilities, summon tanar'ri
Special Qualities Blindsight 60 ft., DR 10/cold iron or good, immunity to electricity and poison, resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10, SR 13, telepathy 100 ft., uncanny dodge
Saves Fort +8 Ref +9 Will +7
Abilities Str 18, Dex 19, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 11
Skills Climb +21*, Escape Artist +13, Hide 13, Intimidate +9, Listen +11, Move Silently +13, Sense Motive +11, Spot +11, Survival +11
Feats Ability Focus (poison), Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Iron WillB, MultiattackB, Weapon Focus (pincer)B
Environment Infinite Layers of the Abyss (Driller's Hives)
Organization Solitary, clutch (2-5), nest (6-13), or swarm (14-30)
Challenge Rating 5
Treasure Half standard
Alignment Always chaotic evil
Horrid denizens of the second layer of the Abyss, jarabu are slow, methodical, and deeply cruel fiends that delight as much in creating terror and paranoia as they do in committing heinous violence. A jarabu resembles a dusky, pallid grey, emaciated and hairless human from the waist up, with clawed talons in place of fingers and no nose or eyes, just a smooth caul in their place above a mouth full of tiny fangs. From the waist down, the grey flesh gives way to the body of a giant black earwig, six scuttling legs holding aloft an upward-curved tail with vicious pincers dripping a clear, vile venom.
Jarabu enjoy converging on targets silently, using their full bodies to grapple and poison victims before withdrawing and using their spell-like abilities to create confusion and disarray. Minor image allows them to "increase" their numbers and create more panic, while darkness and insidious rhythm disrupt melee, ranged, and magical strategies to organize and defend against them. Jarabu understand Abyssal but do not speak, communicating by telepathy, clicking noises, body language, and the occasional hiss. Although capable of moving quite rapidly, jarabu love to terrify prey by moving slowly and deliberately, savoring the building horror and exulting in the death of hope. Atypically for tanar'ri, jarabu are quite social and move in swarms, though they are comfortable betraying one another at a whim. Surprisingly strong-willed for lesser tanar'ri, jarabu can be territorial and invasive, migrating to many other layers in small clutches, though the vast majority reside in the Driller's Hives where they stalk prey that have fallen from Pazunia and bow to the dreadful Tharzax, the Chattering Prince.
Constrict (Ex) A jarabu deals 2d6+6 points of damage with a successful grapple check.
Improved Grab (Ex) To use this ability, a jarabu must hit with its pincer attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it succeeds on the grapple check, it can constrict.
Poison (Ex) Injury, Fortitude DC 18, initial damage 1d4 Dex and aphobopsia, secondary damage 1d6 Int and aphobopsia. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Jarabu Aphobopsia (Su) This vile side effect of jarabu poison makes them terrifying foes; those so afflicted become partially (one instance of the effect) or totally (multiple instances) incapable of seeing the source of their fear. After one instance (such as the primary damage of a jarabu's poison), the afflicted creature treats all jarabu as though they have 20% concealment from the victim. After a second such instance (such as the secondary damage of a jarabu's poison), the afflicted creature treats all jarabu as though they are invisible, except that spells such as see invisibility or coating methods such as flour, paint, faerie fire or glitterdust do not help the afflicted creature's mind acknowledge the jarabu, though true seeing will. Aphobopsia lasts for 1 hour and is highly distressing to those affected, causing them to become shaken for 1d4 rounds whenever a jarabu's attack against the victim succeeds (Will DC 17 negates). Aphobopsia is a mind-affecting ability, though unlike most mind-affecting abilities it is linked to a physical toxin contaminating the physical brain and thus bypasses protections such as mind blank which would ordinarily screen out such effects.
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) At will - cause fear (DC 12), darkness, greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), insidious rhythmSC (DC 11), lightfootSC, minor image (DC 12). Caster level 6th, save DCs Charisma-based.
Summon Tanar'ri (Sp) Once per day a jarabu can attempt to summon 1 jarabu or 1d3 dretches with a 40% chance of success. This ability is the equivalent of a 3rd-level spell.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) As a rogue.
Skills A jarabu has a +8 racial bonus to Climb checks. A jarabu gets a +4 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks in organic terrain (e.g. hives, resinous structures, vines, trees, innards etc.)
Now then.
I'd say when they noodled Dal Quor out of alignment they likely did a bad so severe that poking around threatens to mess with the desync of the moon.
The biggest issue, ironically, is that it's just so terribly easy on Athas. Chronomancy does not draw magic from life, and as chronomancy is virtually unknown in any fashion in the Crimson Sphere, there won't be many locals poking about.
...but the ones that are there are terrifying. There are a small number of psionicists that have acquired the ability to travel through the timestream, and they are fanatically xenophobic. You also have the issue that you might emerge into a totally different period of Athas's history in which the land, magic and even the forces of life themselves work differently. Emerge in the Blue Age and you are very likely to drown. Emerge in the Green Age and you could attract the attention of a pyreen who will likely be quite cross with you for threatening to meddle with what they would understand as history to that point. Land in the Red Age and enjoy the pleasant experience of the Cleansing Wars, a series of horrific genocides carried out by increasingly unstable sorcerer lords with incredible psionic might. The Brown Age, of course, is the usual Athasian horribleness, and I would hazard that the present era is if anything the least stable, now that the Cerulean Storm rains over all.
Merging with the plane returns their power, will, and essence to the plane, which theoretically allows to to be recycled to fuse with another outsider - a sufficiently powerful will could theoretically draw itself back from the essence of its plane in time, but even those that cannot still contribute something back to the plane to which they are native. An outsider dying without being able to merge with their plane has their essence disperse wherever it happens to be, which can contaminate the immediate area but prevents any possibility of re-emergence, eliminates whatever their essence could have given back to their home plane - if an outsider merging with their plane could be compared to interring a corpse so that the nutrients in the body can be digested, an outsider simply dying would be like firing the corpse into space.
Happy to help!
Aye, I did.Quote:
A couple of years ago you wrote a really odd adventure path based on the Hinterlands of the Outlands. I'd love to have a re-read if somone could link to it again.
It is not.Quote:
Thinking about that though, and SirKazam's comment above, is it possible to Walk the Borders through the Hinterlands to reach an Outer Plane, without using the Gate Town itself.
I think the mishtai (the precedessor race of the skarn and the rilkan from Magic of Incarnum) didn't exist in some form in older editions, correct? So I'm wondering if they can be introduced into the Spelljammer timeline. Or maybe they've been just some one-world species somewhere.
Edit: Also, I'm wondering about Dark Sun half-giants and their alignment. The 2e write up of half-giants mentions that part of their alignment is solid while the other part fluctuates daily depending on the people they interact with. How does this interact with the metaphysics of alignment? If such a half-giant finds his way to Sigil and dies outside the Grey, where does his soul go?
Hello. It has been a while since I ask a question here. So I do have a question to ask: Who are the members of the Fey Deities Pantheon? :smile:
I suspect the mishtai got themselves to multiple worlds, though I doubt they were spelljamming to do so; mischance with magic or intentional gates would be more likely, though we can't count out space travel simply because they positively reek of reigar and/or hurwaeti influence, given they're humanoids with a hint of reptilian characteristics who are obsessed with perfection of form. I suspect the mishtai are younger than humanity as a race, though still quite old in relative terms (humans are also pretty old when you get right down to it, just not, you know, comparatively).
A half-giant's alignment may shift but who they are doesn't - think of it like if you put on a helm of opposite alignment and then got stabbed. A paladin doing so isn't going to rocket down to the Abyss, because their soul isn't that alignment - their mind was. Similarly, a half-giant has (or should have, at least) a "true" alignment that represents who they are when circumstances aren't rapidly spinning them around, and the anchored component of their alignment represents that in part. Or, looking at it another way, a good-locked half-giant will always end up in an Upper Plane; an evil-locked one in a Lower Plane; and so on. Their nature and essential character are what end up dictating "where."Quote:
Edit: Also, I'm wondering about Dark Sun half-giants and their alignment. The 2e write up of half-giants mentions that part of their alignment is solid while the other part fluctuates daily depending on the people they interact with. How does this interact with the metaphysics of alignment? If such a half-giant finds his way to Sigil and dies outside the Grey, where does his soul go?
Or you could just take 3.5's half-giants and remember that the above was always a completely asinine concept to throw at people playing a roleplaying game, especially in a setting that's already set out to murder your character.
• Caoimhin, demipower of the killmoulis, food, and friendship
• Damh, lesser power of satyrs and korreds, song, and dance
• Eachthighern, lesser power of unicorns and pegasi, healing, loyalty, and protection
• Emmantiensien, intermediate power of treants, trees, and magic
• Fionnghuala, demipower of swanmays, communication, and sorority
• Nathair Sgiathach, intermediate power of pseudodragons and faerie dragons, and of mischief
• Oberon, lesser power of nature and animals
• Skerrit, lesser power of centaurs, community, and balance
• Squelaiche, demipower of leprechauns, trickery, and illusion
• Titania, greater power of Faerie, friendship, and magic
• Verenestra, lesser power of dryads, nymphs, sylphs, charm, and beauty
In addition there is the one who doesn't sit in the Seelie Court but has her own Unseelie Court, where she is The Worst:
• The Queen of Air and Darkness, intermediate power of all evil fey, of magic, darkness, and murder.
Of course I've added a bunch, most crucially resurrecting an ancient piece of lost canon, but those are the general answer.
What would Eilistraee think of these little fellas?
What's afrocanon for Meriadar?
If, for the sake of analogy, you described the 'rings' of the Great Wheel as:
- Outer Planes - Faith
- Astral Plane - Thought
- Material Plane - Belief
- Ethereal Plane - ?
- Inner Planes - Fact
What's the missing entry for the Ethereal? Possibility?
The official descriptions are IIRC:
- Outer Planes: Belief
- Material Plane: Life
- Inner Planes: Fact
- Astral Plane: Thought (as the thing that connects belief and life)
- Ethereal Plane: Potential (as the thing that connects life and the cold, hard facts)
The Ordial Plane would be in this pattern the Plane of Proof, as the thing that connects belief and fact.
Where can I find more information on the phlogiston phenomena listed on Nerik's map?
They're in several books, but I can quickly summarize a few.
• Dark regions are inky-black parts of the phlogiston suffused with negative energy, like a roiling cloud of lightlessness that can slowly erode life from those that dare enter. Large dark regions tend to prevent any ships from risking a crossing.
• Flow beacons are mysterious spindle-shaped metallic constructs that bob in the phlogiston; they give off light which may blink at odd intervals and "sing" a constant pitch that is slightly different for each beacon.
• Flow reefs are unique living ecosystems in the phlogiston, accretions of rogue asteroids and other matter that have formed stable oases where alien life can thrive. Ships can generally replenish food, air, and water at such reefs, though it is to be noted that various predators may lair in flow reefs and the aggregate matter can impede a ship's easy progress away.
• Phlogiston vortices are particularly turbulent regions where the Flow can easily catch up a ship and drag it away from its route, or suck it in and destroy it completely.
• Pulsing phlogiston, sometimes known as "seizure tides," is a phenomenon in the Flow where certain regions of phlogiston pulse with light that causes nausea, rather than providing steady illumination.
• Pyroclastic flow is an area of phlogiston that is more unstable than normal and may explode suddenly of its own volition; if regular phlogiston is gasoline, pyroclastic phlogiston is gaseous nitroglycerine.
• Sargassos are zones of dead magic within the phlogiston; spells fail, magic items stop functioning, and even spelljamming helms shut down - which means ships that enter these deadly zones can become stranded.
• Shadow clouds are clouded regions of the Flow that have a link to negative energy weaker than that of dark regions, but contain a more direct horror - dozens, if not hundreds (or more) of shadows (the undead kind) looking to add to their number.
Haven't been able to find a darn thing on that chaos rift, more's the pity.
On an unrelated note, I was away working on a big thing that a drive-by update decided to eat in its near-entirety, so here's the abridged version since I absolutely cannot be bothered to reconstruct the full mechanics right now.
Spoiler: Beards, beards, beards...The Rings of Dwarvenkind
Among the most important relics of the dwarven people, the Shath Hargernir or rings of dwarvenkind are artifacts of rulership, leadership, and mastery endowed with gifts from seven great gods of the Morndinsamman. Originally the Shath Gerindir, or Seven Belts, each was forged as a belt buckle by Moradin's hand and passed down to a ruler of one of the great dwarven nations of Dormark in an era of chaos and darkness, and together the seven rulers successfully toppled many of the greatest threats to dwarves on their homeworld and forged mighty kingdoms.
Though invited to gift his power to one of the belts, the dour god Laduguer believed that such trinkets would weaken dwarvenkind, who would become reliant on the powers of their gods and abandon the toil and struggle that made them hard and enduring. Embittered by the prosperity of the seven kingdoms and the comparative lack of prestige and status of his own followers, the duergar, cold Laduguer hatched a scheme with his daughter to manipulate the greatest mortal smith of the age, Hofdram Steelsong. Playing on the smith's fears of the early days of spelljamming and the possibility of schisms and permanent alienation of dwarvenkind, Laduguer's catspaw Deep Duerra suggested that the greatest flaw of the Shath Gerindir was that no dwarf could ever consolidate rule when seven belts could never be worn in tandem. Hofdram seized on the idea that he could "correct" Moradin's "error" and help raise up a High King by reshaping the buckles into holy rings ("hargernir") to be worn by this theoretical supreme ruler and sovereign of all dwarvenkind, and went forth to the wearers of the seven belts, his great reputation and their avarice for the position of High King convincing each in their turn to cede their belts to him.
Hofdram's work produced seven magical rings as intended, but in reducing the artifacts he diminished their power, and with his supreme hubris - believing he could better the craft of the Soul Forger himself - he unknowingly tainted each of the seven with a curse born of his own weakness of character.
The rings of dwarvenkind ended up causing wars for their control, with none realizing that no dwarf could ever bear the powers of all seven under any circumstance, and ultimately drive the very scattering that Hofdram so feared. The exact whereabouts of each of the Shath Hargernir are today not known, but sages have learned some of their lore and distilled down some of their properties.
The powers common to the rings of dwarvenkind include:
• Leadership as a bonus feat.
• +5 to the wearer's Leadership score.
• +6 to one mental ability score depending on which ring is worn.
• Immunity to any compulsion which would result in removal of the ring being worn.
• +2 morale bonus to all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks, and damage rolls for all dwarves (but not duergar or derro) within 1 mile of the wearer.†
• +8 bonus to Charisma-based checks to influence any dwarf (but not duergar or derro).†
• +10 insight bonus to three skills unique to each of the seven rings.
• 3 points of essentia, provided by ancestral dwarven spirits.†
• A bonus incarnum-related feat unique to each of the seven rings.†
• A least spell-like ability, usable at will.
• A lesser spell-like ability, usable three times per day.
• A greater spell-like ability, usable once per day.
• The wearer may permanently and irrevocably expend 1 point of Constitution or Charisma to activate iron heart surgeToB. This does not require an action and no compulsion can prevent the wearer from using this ability.†
Each ring also bears other traits:
• The rings cannot be magically or otherwise preternaturally detected.
• A unique curse that cannot be removed by mortal magic or similar effects, involving a compulsion which no protection short of immunity conferred by divine ranks can protect against, not even mind blank.
• Non-dwarf wearers (but not duergar or derro) suffer a progressing curse of petrification should they wear any of the rings of dwarvenkind which causes terrible agony and which no mortal magic or similar effect can protect against or reverse. Such wearers gain none of the benefits of the ring being worn that have been marked with an obelisk (†), with the exception of the incarnum feat, which is replaced in all cases with Shape SoulmeldMoI.
• Each ring can only be destroyed by specific methods.
Ring Patron Metal Least Lesser Greater Skill Skill Skill Stat Feat Aegern Abbathor Platinum entice giftSC ruby ray of reversalSC phantasmal thiefSC Appraise Hide Sleight of Hand Int Midnight DodgeMoI Alagern Clangeddin Silverbeard Mithril aid greater heroism mass valiant spiritMoI Intimidate Jump Survival Cha Cobalt ChargeMoI Hurngern Vergadain Gold augury improvisationSC discern location Bluff Escape Artist Spot Cha Cerulean ReflexesMoI Lingern Moradin Iron make whole fabricate true creation Craft (armorsmithing) Craft (blacksmithing) Craft (weaponsmithing) Wis Cerulean FortitudeMoI Talgern Dumathoin Adamantine meld into stone stone tell phase door Climb Knowledge (dungeoneering) Profession (miner) Int SoulsightMoI Thalgern Berronar Truesilver Silver zone of truth heal mass restorationSC Diplomacy Heal Sense Motive Wis Healing SoulMoI Xothgern Dugmaren Brightmantle Brass identify find the path moment of prescience Knowledge (arcana) Knowledge (any) Knowledge (any) Int Sapphire SprintMoI
Aegern, called the Ring of Greed, the Ring of Treasures, the Prosperous Ring, and the Green Ring, is a thick platinum band studded around the whole circumference with square-cut emeralds, with a single dagger-shaped emerald disrupting the perfect circle. Its power can create jewels from stones and detect precious metals and minerals through solid stone, but the wearer over time becomes consumed by greed to the point of being unable to sleep or eat, pulled by the ring's song to seek out every jewel, coin, and scrap of precious metal that can be found. The ring is believed to have been taken to the world of Oerth.
Alagern, called the Ring of Valor, the Ring of Glory, the Warrior's Ring, and the Blue Ring, is a solid mithril band with a simple bevel, which displays a soft blue-glowing symbol of crossed battleaxes when worn by a dwarf. Its power afford great combat prowess and martial command, empowering the wearer to accomplish mighty feats against impossible odds, but the curse of the ring takes every victory and makes the wearer feel more and more invulnerable, goading them to ever more dangerous and even reckless deeds. It has cropped up on a number of different worlds and is currently believed to be lost somewhere in wildspace.
Hurngern, called the Ring of Fortune, the Ring of Hope, the Merchant's Ring, and the Yellow Ring, is a ring of hammered gold coins bearing grinning dwarven faces. Its power stirs the wearer to adventure and calls them to discover fantastic lost treasure, as well as rescuing the wearer from impossible odds and seemingly certain doom; however, it seems to tire of wearers it needs to save and will abandon them to their peril at the worst of times, causing increasingly erratic swings of luck. This ring is believed to be in the possession of the Great Khan of the Dao.
Lingern, called the Ring of Skill, the Forging Ring, the Anvil Ring, and the Red Ring, is a simple iron band that reveals an impression of a hammer and anvil when worn by a dwarf. Its power allows the crafting of incredible works beyond what the wearer's own skill might have allowed, but drives them to dissatisfaction with every masterpiece, striving to create something newer and better and investing more of themselves into each work, for the ring allows the wearer to expend their very soul into their craft and will ultimately destroy them. Lingern has not been documented anywhere else in the known worlds and is believed to remain buried in a fallen kingdom on Dormark itself.
Talgern, called the Ring of Secrets, the Ring of the Deep, the Hidden Ring, and the Black Ring, is an adamantine bad made of interlocking triquetras with tiny ruby and garnet shards at the heart of each. Its power gives the wearer unparalleled understanding of and preternatural senses involving the underground environment and reveals secrets, ambushes, traps, and hidden things to them beneath the earth, as well as strengthening them the deeper underground they go. However, its curse drives the wearer to delve ever deeper, into dark places where darker things wait, ultimately to their doom. Talgern was traced to a crystal sphere off the beaten path, one difficult to access by spelljamming or planar travel, where sages tell that it ended up in the clutches of a dark lord known as Kyber.
Thalgern, called the Ring of Mercy, the Hearth Ring, Homecaller, and the White Ring, is a delicate band of interlocking silver rings. Its power protects those the wearer cares about and allows them to find their way back to the wearer, and weakens enemies who would do harm to those within a mile of the wearer. Its curse causes the wearer to feel every being that exits the one-mile radius as though they were being abandoned, without ever knowing if they return, driving them increasingly mad and causing them to become paranoid, tyrannical, and controlling to the point of being utterly incapable of trusting another soul not to leave or betray them. Thalgern is believed to have been brought to the world of Toril, where it was lost in a fallen dwarven kingdom.
Xothgern, called the Ring of Lore, the Ring of the Wise, the Sages' Ring, and the Orange Ring, is a heavy brass band bearing an open book as its device. Its power drives inventiveness, provides unlikely knowledge and discovery, and confers the ability to use wizardly scrolls, tomes, and other such items. Its curse causes subtle distraction, dissatisfaction, and frustration, culminating in half-finished projects, wanderlust, and insatiable curiosity. It was traced into the Plane of Shadow but its whereabouts beyond that remain a mystery.
As for Laduguer, his daughter stole the scraps from Hofdram's work and brought them to the dour god of the duergar, who worked them together into an alloy called perdurum, forging a ring of his own:
Thulgern, called the Ring of Will, the Ring that Waits, the Despotic Ring, and the Gray Ring, appears at first glance to be a dull, matte-gray metal ring, smooth but unassuming. It is rough and jagged to the touch, however, capable of drawing blood, and when worn by a duergar its appearance shifts to reveal a ring of crossbow bolt fragments. Its power confers immortality and mental might, but it too is cursed - the wearer becomes increasingly incapable of feeling joy or other positive emotions, physical sensations become dull, and the preservation effect of Thuldanin slowly encroaches into the wearer's surroundings. The whereabouts of this ring are unknown, though texts on a few known worlds mention "the Athingern," which means "the Eighth Ring."
Hm. Are those sages from outside or inside the crystal sphere? It's just, I could understand this as a misinterpretation of Khyber by outlanders, but if it isn't I have no idea what world this may reference.
Also, I was unaware the Duerra is reputed to be Laduguer's daughter, but apparantly that was a thing in Demihuman Deities.
I asked a question a few posts above. I'll ask it again in case you missed it: What's afrocanon on Meriadar?
Finally, I've been thinking about Athasian dragons. Why does the defiler metamorphosis transform you into a dragon? I mean, yes, the Dyolist reason is that the designers of Dark Sun wanted to use typical fantasy stuff in a completely different way, but what's the Watsonian reason? Did there used to be true dragons on Athas, and whoever created the metamorphosis (Rajaat, maybe?) designed it to capture the majesty of the lost creatures? Does the spell simply reflect the fact that all arcane magic is in some way draconic (though, in that case the preserver metamorphosis should produce dragons too)? Is it resonance of the rapacious and greedy nature of dragons, reflecting the defiler's nature (similiar to how dragons work in Ravenloft, IIRC)? Or is there something about dragons that makes them inherently "defiler-y"? If the last one is the case, would that mean that a true dragon that found its way to the Crimson Sphere would be automatically a defiler?
Question about Maugs (the extraplanar constructs made to fight wars in Acheron, Fiend Folio p.121-123).
Are there any notables? I'm struggling to find a single Maug with class levels in any published source.
Also, if any become Clerics or such, which deity are they likely to worship? would Halmyr from CW be a good fit?
Sages inside that particular crystal sphere don't tend to know about other worlds, so... :smalltongue:
Nobody said it was literal, or that those who recounted the original history had all the details clear. I actually had a much more elaborate and rigorous history written up but... well, you know.Quote:
Also, I was unaware the Duerra is reputed to be Laduguer's daughter, but apparantly that was a thing in Demihuman Deities.
Clarify?Quote:
I asked a question a few posts above. I'll ask it again in case you missed it: What's afrocanon on Meriadar?
I mean it sort of does and doesn't... you're not transforming into a true dragon of some sort, you're basically being horribly mutated by fusing an incredibly aggressive psionic focus on the self, an aberrant method of forcing more arcane power out of local sources than should be available, primordial elemental energies, and of course a looooot of practices straight out of Advanced Evilology. Since both fundamental elemental energies and arcane magic have their roots in dragonkind (and yes, at one point Athas would have had native dragons, loooooong ago), the process of attempting to expand one's power in this fashion could either make you just explode (which does happen to some that attempt defiler metamorphosis) or, through careful use of psionics, modulate all of those stolen and warped energies through the physical body, which results in this weird draconic appearance. It's not about Rajaat being nostalgic for dragons (as a pyreen, he was not around when real dragons lived on Athas) but rather the nature of arcane magic and the extraordinarily unique circumstances of the defiler metamorphosis. Which is to say no, it's not going to happen anywhere outside of Athas.Quote:
Finally, I've been thinking about Athasian dragons. Why does the defiler metamorphosis transform you into a dragon?
Preserver metamorphosis is a very different process. Instead of force-hijacking magic and using psionics to make your own body a filter, you're following altogether different methods that actually tie in to forms of magic not descended from the gnomish/draconic tradition or even the elven tradition; it's the closest thing to the lost magic of the spaakiil that there has been in the multiverse in quite some time, and the resultant metamorphosis pays homage to that shape. Preservers are using magic and psionics to filter life energies (not just positive energy, but positive energy bonded to the necessary building blocks of living things) through their bodies and out into the world. It's an act of sacrifice as much as one of transcendence.Quote:
(though, in that case the preserver metamorphosis should produce dragons too)?
No, but most evil ones would likely veer that way purely out of selfishness, though the smarter ones would almost certainly notice that it makes their new surroundings that much more difficult to enjoy as they would prefer. A true dragon somehow stranded on Athas would almost certainly focus its efforts on getting out.Quote:
would that mean that a true dragon that found its way to the Crimson Sphere would be automatically a defiler?
Not that I'm aware of.
Fits with the realm I gave him, I would imagine some have also been in service to Laduguer just for the locality of it all. In general any dispassionate and/or martial god of LN leaning LE type disposition, or even pure LE, would be very likely candidates.Quote:
Also, if any become Clerics or such, which deity are they likely to worship? would Halmyr from CW be a good fit?
If you need more maug material, I can possibly stir something up, just let me know.