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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
Somebody loved me once but I cannot remember why
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
You mean either of you knew in the first place?
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
JadePhoenix
That's simply not it.
Accusing them of saying that you belong to them when clearly that's not how they meant it doesn't qualify? :smallconfused:
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Originally Posted by
Frozen_Feet
I'd have no problems with her screwing one half of the town behind my back and the other before my eyes on the kitchen table, though; I'd rather she just be sober while doing it. I want her to start taking care of herself before she gets to the point where she can't. It's likely my experiences with my alcoholic father haunting me here - I don't want to see anyone else I know of to get into such a sorry state, especially not a young mother who has her whole life ahead of her.
And that's the punchline - the part of me who wants to help her doesn't expect to get anything but misplaced disdain in return. Picking someone up from snow and helping them through slosh is less something I do for affection, and more something I consider a medical duty. I'd try to do, and have done, the same for a total stranger.
Then you don't want a relationship with her, you want her to stop living a self-destructive life.
Pretty straightforward, but you aren't going to have much luck convincing her to do it, and shielding her from the consequences is just going to encourage her to get worse by being an enabler. (edit: And a relationship would be even worse for accomplishing that, as you'd just get bogged down further into the muck surrounding her)
Better to distance yourself so that when/if she finally wises up, she doesn't want to drop you for reminding her of that sordid period of her past than to try to date the woman.
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It's likely my experiences with my alcoholic father haunting me here - I don't want to see anyone else I know of to get into such a sorry state, especially not a young mother who has her whole life ahead of her.
Wait. She's carrying on this way while she has an infant child? :smalleek:
...I hope that kid's not already suffering permanent consequences for her excess. :smallfrown:
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Originally Posted by
AtlanteanTroll
I ... But ... Missing the point? :smalltongue:
I'm pretty sure it's topical that my girlfriend was driving and we were sexually active with one another. :smallwink: In a "Don't worry, son, elephants come and elephants go, but charm, that's a life skill," sort of way. :smallbiggrin:
Is there some reservation you have about pursuing a relationship with her that you're projecting onto this artifical requirement?
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
Coidzor
I'm pretty sure it's topical that my girlfriend was driving and we were sexually active with one another. :smallwink: In a "Don't worry, son, elephants come and elephants go, but charm, that's a life skill," sort of way. :smallbiggrin:
Oh, it's topical, I'm just not sure it was entirely relevant unless you couldn't drive ... :smalltongue:
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Is there some reservation you have about pursuing a relationship with her that you're projecting onto this artifical requirement?
Probably, but I'm not sure what it is. I'm not the sort of guy who just rushes into things (usually), I like to think about them first ... I guess I don't want to deal with potential rejection and risk losing her as a friend, but if I'm ever to have a shot, I need to overcome that fear. I also have no idea how to ask her out as the one relationship I've been in sort of just happened.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
AtlanteanTroll
Oh, it's topical, I'm just not sure it was entirely relevant unless you couldn't drive ... :smalltongue:
That was kind of subtexty, yeah. Sorry. :smallwink: Even without it though, it's a sign that it is clearly ok to get intimate with a woman who is driving you.
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Originally Posted by
AtlanteanTroll
I guess I don't want to deal with potential rejection and risk losing her as a friend, but if I'm ever to have a shot, I need to overcome that fear.
If you lose them as a friend and don't make a huge rude spectacle of yourself in the asking, then they're not worth having as a friend in the long term anyway, so you lose the equivalent of so much dead skin.
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Originally Posted by
AtlanteanTroll
I also have no idea how to ask her out as the one relationship I've been in sort of just happened.
Well, asking her to hang out one-on-one, grabbing coffee together, seeing a show together or having a movie night for two, those are all fairly obvious things that also generally don't have quite the pressure of putting someone on the spot and directly asking for a formal relationship. Once the subject has been passively broached and you've had the one-on-one interaction to test the chemistry and such, by then asking should be a relatively straightforward and simple affair or she's already shot you down or you move on to having some actual dates and the question is just put off for a bit longer.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
Not being "classy" enough to lie about unprotected sex is much, much better than having the "class" to deceive other people about something pretty important. Also, being (very) drunk in social situations != being a drunk != being abusive or neglecting. There's a lot of overlap, but the cart-before-horse assumptions that one necessarily equates to the other probably creates a self-fulfilling prophecy more often than not. It's a worry, but it shouldn't be an assumption. Maybe I'm just a libertine, but I'd let other people make their own decisions and only start to worry when you actually notice consequences for others who have no choice in the matter. If she wants to get drunk, and her infant doesn't seem harmed by it, why should you mind?
EDIT: I agree with Coidzor fully about his advice to AtlaneanTroll, though. Things might be a little awkward for a little while, don't get me wrong, but I think the kind of person you'd truly lose as a friend isn't the kind of person who's really much of a friend in the first place.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
Vacant
Not being "classy" enough to lie about unprotected sex is much, much better than having the "class" to deceive other people about something pretty important.
Well, yes, because it serves to warn away others. Still, it rather pales in comparison with actually practicing good hygiene and not making a huge production out of one's sexual history. Since that stuff gets enough attention as it is without attention being deliberately called to it.
I am rather confused as to why you assume that being classy is automatically something that only happens as a result of lying and bringing harm to others rather than actually being a responsible, reasonable, relatively mature individual though. :smallconfused:
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Originally Posted by
Vacant
Also, being (very) drunk in social situations != being a drunk != being abusive or neglecting.
Getting drunk to the point that one blacks out and doesn't know what one's done on a regular basis is irresponsible any way you cut it. From what I've been able to gather, it seems to be a faux pas even in polyamorous relationships to sleep around and not exercise some common courtesy of partner selection and/or ensuring that one is able to use protection properly.
Further, I did not equate getting irresponsibly drunk and not taking care of one's self with rampant alcoholism, just with bad consequences and shielding someone from them as being an enabler. If it's a habitual thing though, it's a habitual thing. And having a known habit of getting drunk and screwing half the town without being able to remember it... generally seems to be defined as kind of neglecting one's relationship.
Plus, it's the kind of thing that many people would find rather unpleasant or would hurt their feelings and so it's a fair question to an individual considering a relationship with someone displaying such signs if they 1. believe it to be within the realm of plausible results and 2. how much they would care.
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Originally Posted by
Vacant
Maybe I'm just a libertine, but I'd let other people make their own decisions and only start to worry when you actually notice consequences for others who have no choice in the matter.
Generally if I see someone about to jump off a cliff, I feel obligated to give them fair warning if they don't seem to have taken into account the drop. Especially if they seem kind of confused or unsure about the whole ordeal to ask if it's a good idea or not.
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Originally Posted by
Vacant
If she wants to get drunk, and her infant doesn't seem harmed by it, why should you mind?
You mean aside from the bit where single parents with substance problems generally are kind of harmful to their offspring? :smallconfused:
And the infant being inconvenienced or harmed if she's negligent of it or ends up bringing home a man who is harmful to the child... seems to be one of those things that would hold consequences for those without agency that you mentioned just a bit ago.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
Coidzor
I am rather confused as to why you assume that being classy is automatically something that only happens as a result of lying and bringing harm to others rather than actually being a responsible, reasonable, relatively mature individual though. :smallconfused:
You did say classy enough to "de-emphasize" the amount of unprotected sex they've had. It seems dishonest to de-emphasize this and any consequences thereof, to me at least.
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Originally Posted by
Coidzor
Getting drunk to the point that one blacks out and doesn't know what one's done on a regular basis is irresponsible any way you cut it. From what I've been able to gather, it seems to be a faux pas even in polyamorous relationships to sleep around and not exercise some common courtesy of partner selection and/or ensuring that one is able to use protection properly.
I don't know, I wouldn't care. What she does is her business, responsible or otherwise. I'd go with somebody who procrastinates her papers to the last minute and I'd go with somebody who drinks too much.
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Originally Posted by
Coidzor
Further, I did not equate getting irresponsibly drunk and not taking care of one's self with rampant alcoholism, just with bad consequences and shielding someone from them as being an enabler. If it's a habitual thing though, it's a habitual thing. And having a known habit of getting drunk and screwing half the town without being able to remember it... generally seems to be defined as kind of neglecting one's relationship.
I was responding to other concerns, namely that someone who likes their drink and is a single parent will repeat the pattern of particular individuals who shared those characteristics. All I was saying is that one should ascertain whether that is happening before leaping to any conclusions.
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Originally Posted by
Coidzor
Plus, it's the kind of thing that many people would find rather unpleasant or would hurt their feelings and so it's a fair question to an individual considering a relationship with someone displaying such signs if they 1. believe it to be within the realm of plausible results and 2. how much they would care.
Generally if I see someone about to jump off a cliff, I feel obligated to give them fair warning if they don't seem to have taken into account the drop. Especially if they seem kind of confused or unsure about the whole ordeal to ask if it's a good idea or not.
I think better advice is to look over the edge and check for a parachute, to carry the metaphor; the "cliff" may be about six inches off the ground.
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Originally Posted by
Coidzor
You mean aside from the bit where single parents with substance problems generally are kind of harmful to their offspring? :smallconfused:
And the infant being inconvenienced or harmed if she's negligent of it or ends up bringing home a man who is harmful to the child... seems to be one of those things that would hold consequences for those without agency that you mentioned just a bit ago.
I think you misread what I was saying, since I said if there is no indication that that is happening, there's no reason to worry. Sorry if that was unclear. The specific idea that you seem to be articulating, that that necessarily and invariably will be the case, is the notion against which I am arguing.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
Ancano
An opportunity to kiss a girl was dropped into your lap and you chose not to go through with it. How are you unlucky exactly?
Because had I done so, and had it gone to anything, a complete ****-storm would have started and I would have been in the middle of it. It would have been bad. Very bad. I'm saying I'm unlucky because it should have been a girl who I wouldn't have felt any reason not to do stuff with.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
If you keep being so picky you'll end up single for the rest of your life.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
Ancano
If you keep being so picky you'll end up single for the rest of your life.
And that's a bad thing necessarily?
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
Ancano
If you keep being so picky you'll end up single for the rest of your life.
I don't think avoiding entanglements guaranteed to have negative social repercussions causes someone to 'die alone' or anything along those lines, in fact, I believe it can sometimes prevent one's self from becoming a social pariah and be invaluable.
Besides, in terms of partnerships that last, building something on a foundation of strife is not a winning recipe for success. :smallconfused:
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
It's definitely not usually a winning recipe for long-term success, but I've honestly had pretty good experiences with it in the short term. It's basically the train-hopping of romantic encounters.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
Thank you, Coidzor, for understanding exactly where I'm coming from on this.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
Okay. So I have this thing against one of the girls who study the same things as me in the university. In fact, it developed while I was still going out with my last girlfriend, we kind of made out and I decided that it wasn't fair for me to still keep going out with my girlfriend, so we broke up.
With the other girl, we weren't supposed to really have a relationship, just something light, which might evolve later on into a more serious relationship. She was supposed to come over one day, but when the date drew near (we scheduled it something like two weeks in advance), she grew quieter and quieter. Finally, the day before she was supposed to come over, she said she'd gone out with someone and that they were together.
Needless to say, I was quite shocked. I mean, it did kind of come out of the blue, since she said she wasn't looking for a serious relationship, then ended up being in one. "Oh well," I thought. "I'll just go on with my life."
We kept on talking and even flirting for some weird reason. As time went by, I felt more and more attached to her. One day it happened so that she came over, I cooked and we watched a movie (cliché, I know :smalltongue:). After the movie, she started acting like she was really in a playful mood and wanted to make out. I thought it was better not to act on it that day and she left.
A week later, she hinted to me that she'd like to go out to see the stars with me by asking if I knew any good spots in town. We went stargazing for quite a long time. By that moment, I couldn't stand it any more, pulled her close and kissed her. After the kiss, there was a REALLY awkward silence, then we both went home.
Later on, she confessed that she had kind of fallen for me and that it was the first time she ever had fallen for anyone. A few weeks later she ended up staying the night. We agreed that I'd give her time to figure out if she wanted to say no to her boyfriend or to me.
Then one day, out of the blue, ANOTHER guy appears. She dumps her boyfriend and now I'm really confused. Sometimes she falls into the same semi-ignoring routine described earlier, sometimes we can chat normally.
I really have no idea what to do, should I just give her time or confront her about it?
Also, I'm not even sure if I really want a relationship with her or I'm just afraid of being alone.
Gah. /rant
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
Hannes
Okay. So I have this thing against one of the girls who study the same things as me in the university. In fact, it developed while I was still going out with my last girlfriend, we kind of made out and I decided that it wasn't fair for me to still keep going out with my girlfriend, so we broke up.
Now wait a moment. You kind of made out? Did you or did you not? :smalltongue:
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Originally Posted by
Hannes
With the other girl, we weren't supposed to really have a relationship, just something light, which might evolve later on into a more serious relationship. She was supposed to come over one day, but when the date drew near (we scheduled it something like two weeks in advance), she grew quieter and quieter. Finally, the day before she was supposed to come over, she said she'd gone out with someone and that they were together.
Oh, this sucks. Why did you schedule the date two weeks in advance anyway?
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Originally Posted by
Hannes
Needless to say, I was quite shocked. I mean, it did kind of come out of the blue, since she said she wasn't looking for a serious relationship, then ended up being in one. "Oh well," I thought. "I'll just go on with my life."
That was quite mature, congratulations.
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Originally Posted by
Hannes
We kept on talking and even flirting for some weird reason.
That on the other hand was not exactly very smart.
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Originally Posted by
Hannes
As time went by, I felt more and more attached to her. One day it happened so that she came over, I cooked and we watched a movie (cliché, I know :smalltongue:). After the movie, she started acting like she was really in a playful mood and wanted to make out. I thought it was better not to act on it that day and she left.
This wasn't very smart as well.
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Originally Posted by
Hannes
A week later, she hinted to me that she'd like to go out to see the stars with me by asking if I knew any good spots in town. We went stargazing for quite a long time. By that moment, I couldn't stand it any more, pulled her close and kissed her. After the kiss, there was a REALLY awkward silence, then we both went home.
You should have just kept on kissing her, silly.
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Originally Posted by
Hannes
Later on, she confessed that she had kind of fallen for me and that it was the first time she ever had fallen for anyone. A few weeks later she ended up staying the night. We agreed that I'd give her time to figure out if she wanted to say no to her boyfriend or to me.
OK, this is it here. You had her. You did. And you let her get away.
You had to stand your ground here. It may sound a bit cruel, but you really had to make her do the choice, otherwise she would end up drifting aroudn until someone made her do the choice.
This has happened to me so many times it's not even funny. When given the choice between someone who will be there for you anyway and someone who will only be there fo ryou if you actually do something... we do the latter.
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Originally Posted by
Hannes
Then one day, out of the blue, ANOTHER guy appears. She dumps her boyfriend and now I'm really confused. Sometimes she falls into the same semi-ignoring routine described earlier, sometimes we can chat normally.
Yeah, I saw that coming.
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Originally Posted by
Hannes
I really have no idea what to do, should I just give her time or confront her about it?
Confront her.
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Originally Posted by
Hannes
Also, I'm not even sure if I really want a relationship with her or I'm just afraid of being alone.
Then don't confront her :smalltongue:
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
It sounds like you want to make out with her a lot, and that she wants to make out with a lot of people (including you) a lot. Avoid this whole "relationship" idea until one of you needs a break from making out.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
Ancano
If you keep being so picky you'll end up single for the rest of your life.
I've seen enough people in destructive relationships to tell you, there are way worse things than being single.
My worst example is a friend who ended up with a manipulative sociopath who kept her close with threats of suicide, destroying both her self-esteem, confidence and trust in other people. As well as costing her a lot of rebuilding of friendships and family relations torn apart in that time.
It took years before she even wanted another relationship after that, and today she denies that they ever had a "real" relationship.
That's among the worst of examples, but what about a repressed gay partner? Someone who sleeps arounda lot? Lies to you? Abuses you physically? Gets you beat up by hirs actual S.O.? Plays mind games? Forces you to distance yourself from friends/family?
A girl who would've caused a ton of drama, possibly a few friend losses, and made you feel utterly superflous should you end up with her, is not a good option.
I think it speaks good things of Sholos for not going with that. As far as I can tell, that's the kind of spine that'll make it more likely that he ends up with someone worthwhile some day.
Still, Sholos, I'm sorry it was such a ****ty opportunity. I hope you get a better one soon.
@Hannes, I'd say JadePhoenix's analysis sounds about right. Hope you figure it out :smallsmile:
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
Hannes
I really have no idea what to do, should I just give her time or confront her about it?
Also, I'm not even sure if I really want a relationship with her or I'm just afraid of being alone.
Funny coincidence. She sounds like someone who hates being alone too. That's kind of implicit in the "I've never really been without a partner" type. The biggest risk is that they keep partner N-1 around in a holding pattern until they run into a willing partner N. They won't try to tackle problems or let you know when things get rocky (since that might precipitate a breakup before an upgrade comes on-line). Having the rug pulled out from under you can be nasty.
Don't confront, for two reasons. First, she hasn't done anything wrong beyond being a little flaky. Pressuring her will just make you look like a tool. Second, she's in the honeymoon phase with new crush. Any hint of disagreement will just be turned into some reason why they're meant to be together. Couples in the honeymoon phase are not widely known for their reasonableness.
As for the ignoring you, it happens. Partly because she has somebody new to occupy her attention, partly because avoiding you helps her avoid the occasional pang of guilt. Let it go. Then realize that you're better served casually dating.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
DeadManSleeping
It sounds like you want to make out with her a lot, and that she wants to make out with a lot of people (including you) a lot. Avoid this whole "relationship" idea until one of you needs a break from making out.
Pretty much this. She doesn't seem like the type who fits too well in the traditional model of monogamous relationships, but there's nothing wrong with that, so long as everyone involved is clear on the matter; if she likes you and likes him, I see nothing wrong with her making out with both as long as she's honest about it. This way she won't just kind of drift away while still having time to decide who, if anyone, she wants to go solo with. Also, there is the added benefit of lovin' in the meanwhile.
On the other note, I think people give "unhealthy" relationships an unfair treatment. The problem isn't the kind of relationship, it's the kind of person who doesn't want to be in them and doesn't get out. I don't mean this in the sense that it's their fault or anything like that, just in the sense that I don't mind girlfriends who sleep around and throw plates at me, angry S.O.s, mind games, and so on, so those traits or relationships with them aren't a problem. It's important to know what you want and are okay with and be able to recognize where to find it, so I agree that it's a good sign that Sholos knew when he wouldn't want it, I'm just saying that I would've missed out on some of my better relationships if I'd listened to the Healthy Relationship Standards instead of my own feelings on the matter.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
Gah. It's just that... I feel really close and I know she has trouble growing attached to people.
Also, casual dating is not for me, I've found out that of all the people I know, I willingly talk to about 5-10 of them, so finding a person that I'd be interested in more than two ways is kind of hard.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
I think that underscores why a "casual" kind of dating is better than losing her entirely to dating-another-guy awkwardness and the like. I would make sure she knows she can stay your friend and you'll respect her choices whatever happens and that she doesn't have to choose between being your friend and being your girlfriend. If that's really not your thing, of course, don't follow my advice against your judgment, but I've found it can lead to the best of both worlds.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
Vacant
On the other note, I think people give "unhealthy" relationships an unfair treatment. The problem isn't the kind of relationship, it's the kind of person who doesn't want to be in them and doesn't get out. I don't mean this in the sense that it's their fault or anything like that, just in the sense that I don't mind girlfriends who sleep around and throw plates at me, angry S.O.s, mind games, and so on, so those traits or relationships with them aren't a problem. It's important to know what you want and are okay with and be able to recognize where to find it, so I agree that it's a good sign that Sholos knew when he wouldn't want it, I'm just saying that I would've missed out on some of my better relationships if I'd listened to the Healthy Relationship Standards instead of my own feelings on the matter.
Very good point. Thanks for pointing that out.
I will however argue that it's probably a minority of people who can handle "unhealthy" relationships - it is, after all, the majority of people who decided on those standards :smalltongue:
But that doesn't invalidate your point.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
in general, it is better to err on the side of caution and consider things that are forms of relationship abuse as having a negative effect on one's wellbeing than to assume that one is automatically strong enough to not be effected by them in the slightest.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
Do girls really find male virginity unattractive?
While female virginity is generally considered to be a positive thing (some very attractive girls sell theirs for astronomical sums), I've read that girls are very turned off by the prospect of dating a male virgin. The combination of inexperience in bed and negative associations (what else must be wrong with him to be a virgin at 25?) makes it very hard for older virgins to ever lose their virginity.
By the age of 15, 25% of Americans have lost their virginity. Another 25% lose their virginity before the age of 17. By 19, a full 80% of Americans have had sex. If you consider that many of the virgins at this point are "saving it for marraige", the number of unwilling 20 year old virgins is probably less than 5%.
As a 22 year old male virgin, I believe I am officially screwed (not in that way). Can't you girls cut us some slack? If you weren't so shallow maybe we wouldn't be this way.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
Ancano
As a 22 year old male virgin, I believe I am officially screwed (not in that way). Can't you girls cut us some slack? If you weren't so shallow maybe we wouldn't be this way.
Really selling yourself there, buddy. "If women weren't so shallow, I'd get laid!" That's excellent logic you've got right there. :smallsigh:
Seriously though, that's not the way to move forward. Just let it go. Things will progress as they will, and honestly, sexual experiences is *not* that important in the grand scheme of things. Relax man, relax. Life is long, after all.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
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Originally Posted by
Ancano
While female virginity is generally considered to be a positive thing (some very attractive girls sell theirs for astronomical sums)
:eek: That ... kinda doesn't happen in places that aren't utter ****holes. Even in ****holes, it's more that they're pimped out than a choice on the girl's part.
For men, it's partly confidence, a decent amount of preselection, and mostly simple mistaking of cause and effect. A large part of it isn't so much that girls are attracted to guys with extensive histories. It's that the guys who are best at attracting girls are able to have tons of sex.
Many girls are wary of getting tangled up with a clinger. (Seriously, dude. You reek of desperation.) There's also the part where if another hot woman spends time with you, it sends a message that you've already been vetted and met her high standards, which is a positive sign for other women. But most of it comes down to the above point about how attractive = attractive. The V card only matters if you let it get you into a funk. And that if you make yourself more attractive/open, sex will soon follow.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ancano
While female virginity is generally considered to be a positive thing (some very attractive girls sell theirs for astronomical sums), I've read that girls are very turned off by the prospect of dating a male virgin.
Where? I know some are, but it's never been a categorical thing to my knowledge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ancano
The combination of inexperience in bed and negative associations (what else must be wrong with him to be a virgin at 25?) makes it very hard for older virgins to ever lose their virginity.
Slightly harder than hotcakes, I suppose. Though, generally, there's no virginity test that women administer. So they can't really know until it comes to naughty times, and even then, well, lots of people are bad or apathetic towards pleasing their partner in bed. Kind of deplorable, but there you go, humans.
And if one is that put out about it, well, there is a lot of material that can help assuage worries about the important aspects of performance that aren't completely biological.
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Originally Posted by
Ancano
By the age of 15, 25% of Americans have lost their virginity. Another 25% lose their virginity before the age of 17. By 19, a full 80% of Americans have had sex. If you consider that many of the virgins at this point are "saving it for marraige", the number of unwilling 20 year old virgins is probably less than 5%.
So?
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Originally Posted by
Ancano
As a 22 year old male virgin, I believe I am officially screwed (not in that way).
Nope. Not on account of that, anyway. You're 22, for the 12 gods' sakes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ancano
Can't you girls cut us some slack? If you weren't so shallow maybe we wouldn't be this way.
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Originally Posted by
Ancano
Do girls really find male virginity unattractive?
If you're not sure then why are you all ornery about it? :smallconfused:
In my experience, men can rather easily de-emphasize their lack of prior sexual experiences so that it just doesn't come up.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
@Ancano: Meh. Instead of stressing over it, work over your real issues (depression, desperation, poor self-esteem) and start meeting people. I bet you your lack of sexual experience (if it even comes up) will not be a big deal if you just manage to seem confident and interesting to the opposite sex. Who knows, maybe you'll find a woman who's turned on by that if you can be open about it without making it a big deal.
Remember: the sea might be full of fish, but you won't get any if you don't go fishing. It's on the far side of useless to lament lack of intimate relations if you can't/won't do anything about it. Let's take a look at myself: between ages 12 and 20, I didn't show romantic intentions towards anyone. Sure, I would've jumped at the chance to have sex and part of me secretly hoped some cute girl would notice me and ask me out, but how could've that happened when I never did anything to make myself anything beyond utterly forgettable? Even after the army, my priorities were job, apartment and new car first, because I didn't feel secure enough in myself to ask anyone out. (And I know for fact that I've let at least two girls who had a crush on me slip through my fingers because of that.)
No wonder I found myself so utterly alone at the start of the year. Did I ever want to be that way? No. But it would be lying if I said it wasn't by my own choice. It took a lot of stress off my shoulders to admit that little thing: that I'm alone not because I'm bad, uninteresting, inferior, yadda yadda, but because I didn't act, didn't do anything to prove otherwise.
The result? Looking back through this year, I've been on 17 dates with 7 different girls, I have got acquainted with around 20 new people, re-established contact with several school and childhood friends, actually have someone to go to bar with now, so on and so forth. (Sure, I got axed thrice in the process, but hey.) This, despite the past two years being **** for me.
The funny thing is, not much has changed in the two months since I wrote that tirade. I'm still stuck with a useless piece of junk for car, I still hate my job and don't know what to do after january, still don't have an apartment of my own, and my parents are still *****. But I manned up enough to talk to two more girls, and those big things now feel pretty small next to objectively less severe dilemmas surrounding aforementioned Misses #1 and #2. Last evening, Miss #2 called and said she'd bought a gift for me, and I went to pick it up this morning. With that, much of the frustration that's been plaguing me has just vanished.
tl;dr: Finding yourself a girl is mostly a question of attitude and effort. Age and experience are pretty tangential.
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ancano
Do girls really find male virginity unattractive?
I've seen statistics that suggest that men disproportionately lose their virginity to older women, so quite possibly not.
If there is that lack of attraction, I'd say it's not so much "male virginity is unattractive" as - fairly or not - "what sort of guy is still a virgin after 25?" (and I'd say before that point it's not really all that terribly unusual). A no-sex-before-marriage religious type, or a socially hopeless nerd, or a juvenile man-child, or a cripplingly shy person... Or maybe just someone who never got the right opportunities. I'm sure the latter is quite likely, but I must admit (again, fairly or not) that the first lot were the ones that came most readily to my mind, and quite possibly would be the first to come to many others'. And that would be the big concern - is the lack of sexual experience an indicator of one of these legitimately less attractive traits?
And accusing all of womanhood of being "shallow" because of such concerns is hardly swooningly attractive in itself :smallannoyed: