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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
I mostly just want to see the corpse-possession make an appearance, obviously as a Heroic. Mainly because he could then get a team fight roll of heavy, heavy burst damage, but being hard to actually put down (kind of like The Butcher. But with, like, 40% more raw damage soak and 30% less ganking power), you could grab that Heroic to have a good opening, with an enemy killed, lead into taking that dead enemy to wait out your own cooldowns.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
https://heroesofthestorm.com/en-us/heroes/malganis/
Full hero write-up! Hefty lifesteal, and a channeled Sleep ability with a unique mobility twist. He feels like a really cool warrior, will definitely be picking him up.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
I like his character model, particularly the detailing on his face. Though YT comments seem to disagree because of course they do.
...and hey, they nerfed Yrel's armour bequeathing talent at level 4. That was quite a ride while it lasted.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
So Mal'Ganis is live. How are people's first impressions?
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChaosOS
So Mal'Ganis is live. How are people's first impressions?
I'm not sure, as I haven't gotten through a good game with him, but Uther's exactly what I expected to synergize with Mal with, now that I'm doing a build based on Mal's needs. Good burst, good mitigation and a REALLY good CC. These all help against Mal, as well, because they keep him from securing kills and help against his big threats. Hammer of Justice actually outranges his sleep. Canceled an enemy Mal'ganis' sleep plenty of times with that...
Like, Mal'ganis has really high numbers when all goes well, but his design has strong supports and counters scattered throughout the existing lineup. His self-sustain is based on dealing damage to heal himself. These are both things that already have counters. Armor both hurts his self-sustain and improves it, healing reduction guts it while the main meta source of it can also improve his self-sustain, and Uther's stun outranges Mal'ganis' Sleep so one of the big helpful supports is also a significant counter to him. Hammer him when he's on his second Fel Claw, Hammer him when he's channeling his sleep, Hammer him when he channels his Heroic, armor up the guys he's beating on while hitting him for a bit of damage... He can't solo Mal, but will do a LOT to swing a 2v2 against any other support with any other tank. Except maybe alongside ETC against Mal'ganis and Ana.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChaosOS
So Mal'Ganis is live. How are people's first impressions?
I'm keeping 20k in the bank for the two heroes they'll release Blizzcon, so I'm Mal'Ganless 'til they drop his price down in early November.
Based on playing games with and against him, he clearly requires practice. Lots of overextending. His kit pushes him towards an aggressive mindset but he's not some Greymane-Illidan hybrid. You need to play'em like a tank, I think.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
OH MY GOD! Mal and Abathur are so broken! If Mal gets his "Blind as a Bat" Talent for hack and slash, and you put an abathur hat on him, he can see a very short distance around him, it's not much sight, but he can see where to slash!!! This is amazing!!!:smallbiggrin:
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
So far Mal doesn't seem too far off the mark, balance-wise. I've never been trashed by him nor seen him flail pitifully against his fate.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shadow_archmagi
So far Mal doesn't seem too far off the mark, balance-wise. I've never been trashed by him nor seen him flail pitifully against his fate.
If he's blind however.:smalltongue:
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
So, I missed the actual presentation at Blizzcon. While I'm not surprised that they introduced Orphea as the... 82nd Hero I think, I am surprised that's all they introduced. Granted they aren't under the same degree of pressure to fill glaring holes in the meta like over previous years and they've been trying to relax the flow of content so it can be more prominent.
I suppose it's more that they have to deal with the "Where's <insert Blizzard IP character>?" crowd even when they're releasing Blizzard IP characters, much less a Nexus OC. So I figured they'd pair her with, I don't know... Anduin or something.
Aside from that. They're getting rid for XP for forts + keeps and instead you get a catapult every 3rd wave after destroying a fort - like usual with keeps - with the catapults scaling more gradually with time. The XP for minions and defending against attacking Mercs is doubled to compensate. All with the general intent of limiting snowballing.
That's going to have some interesting effects. Like, it's already questionable whether you go for the early Punisher on Infernal Shrines or just keep soaking, now it's really hard to justify letting a minion wave go just to get some structural damage. Or on something like Volskaya, it's a common strategy to attack the fort nearest the next control point, but now if you push down the fort furthest from it you can create pressure on the other side of map while fighting over the objective. Cursed Hollow already has as a consequence of the objective that the cursed team can get a lot of XP soaked by having the enemies minions all push in together, and if all you get out of the curse yourself is a fort or two it might not be worth it really.
On the other hand, it could make Blackhearts' Bay more enjoyable all around not to have the objective be that strong. Though Haunted Mines is going to be even more confusing given that going into the mines will be even more disadvantageous especially on a two lane map.
The only map where things are going to be pretty much the same is Towers of Doom.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kitten Champion
So, I missed the actual presentation at Blizzcon. While I'm not surprised that they introduced Orphea as the... 82nd Hero I think, I am surprised that's all they introduced. Granted they aren't under the same degree of pressure to fill glaring holes in the meta like over previous years and they've been trying to relax the flow of content so it can be more prominent.
I suppose it's more that they have to deal with the "Where's <insert Blizzard IP character>?" crowd even when they're releasing Blizzard IP characters, much less a Nexus OC. So I figured they'd pair her with, I don't know... Anduin or something.
Aside from that. They're getting rid for XP for forts + keeps and instead you get a catapult every 3rd wave after destroying a fort - like usual with keeps - with the catapults scaling more gradually with time. The XP for minions and defending against attacking Mercs is doubled to compensate. All with the general intent of limiting snowballing.
That's going to have some interesting effects. Like, it's already questionable whether you go for the early Punisher on Infernal Shrines or just keep soaking, now it's really hard to justify letting a minion wave go just to get some structural damage. Or on something like Volskaya, it's a common strategy to attack the fort nearest the next control point, but now if you push down the fort furthest from it you can create pressure on the other side of map while fighting over the objective. Cursed Hollow already has as a consequence of the objective that the cursed team can get a lot of XP soaked by having the enemies minions all push in together, and if all you get out of the curse yourself is a fort or two it might not be worth it really.
On the other hand, it could make Blackhearts' Bay more enjoyable all around not to have the objective be that strong. Though Haunted Mines is going to be even more confusing given that going into the mines will be even more disadvantageous especially on a two lane map.
The only map where things are going to be pretty much the same is Towers of Doom.
Haunted Mines is currently out of the map pool, probably for exactly this reason.
Anyway, I tentatively like the changes. Makes laneing and pushing a lot more tactical rather than just a raw power boost before keep damage.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keltest
Haunted Mines is currently out of the map pool, probably for exactly this reason.
I honestly don't see what they can do it without a significant overhaul. Like, getting rid of the actual mines - or moving the whole map into the mines would probably make more sense to keep the map's theme - to make the mechanics work more like the old Garden of Terror. It's not an ideal solution, but I don't really have one of those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keltest
Anyway, I tentatively like the changes. Makes laneing and pushing a lot more tactical rather than just a raw power boost before keep damage.
I don't know, I wasn't particularly unsatisfied with how things are at the moment. It was kind of obnoxious in early 2018 when just taking out Towers early was enough XP to snowball you to victory, but once they moved most of the XP to forts and keeps it felt much more fair especially with how beefy those structures are now. I suppose I'm tentative about this pushing macro too hard, that conservatively soaking will be the default game and you'll be crushed if you don't have strong lane clear.
On another note, I'm surprised a Hero role rework wasn't announced - at least I think it hasn't - I figured they'd do it over the New Years along with the more sweeping meta changes. I mean, it's not a question of whether they're going to do it, they've already stated they would and only had to work out the details and Blizzcon seemed a natural juncture for it anyways.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kitten Champion
I honestly don't see what they can do it without a significant overhaul. Like, getting rid of the actual mines - or moving the whole map into the mines would probably make more sense to keep the map's theme - to make the mechanics work more like the old Garden of Terror. It's not an ideal solution, but I don't really have one of those.
I don't know, I wasn't particularly unsatisfied with how things are at the moment. It was kind of obnoxious in early 2018 when just taking out Towers early was enough XP to snowball you to victory, but once they moved most of the XP to forts and keeps it felt much more fair especially with how beefy those structures are now. I suppose I'm tentative about this pushing macro too hard, that conservatively soaking will be the default game and you'll be crushed if you don't have strong lane clear.
On another note, I'm surprised a Hero role rework wasn't announced - at least I think it hasn't - I figured they'd do it over the New Years along with the more sweeping meta changes. I mean, it's not a question of whether they're going to do it, they've already stated they would and only had to work out the details and Blizzcon seemed a natural juncture for it anyways.
I don't have the virtual ticket, but apparently theyre discussing a bunch of reworks in more detail at the main heroes event.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keltest
I don't have the virtual ticket, but apparently theyre discussing a bunch of reworks in more detail at the main heroes event.
I meant removing the whole Assassin, Warrior, Support, and Specialist category labels and making them more specific. Tank, Bruiser, Healer, Support, Ranged/Melee Assassin, etc. They already somewhat have these definitions under the hood for QM balancing and such, but they've said they're working on making them the official roles. Not a huge thing, but useful for basic game literacy and for understanding team compositions. Especially for clarifying what Specialists actually do, which is pretty different between The Lost Vikings, Nazeebo, and Sgt. Hammer for instance.
This just seemed like the natural time for it to come up, but I guess not.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kitten Champion
I meant removing the whole Assassin, Warrior, Support, and Specialist category labels and making them more specific. Tank, Bruiser, Healer, Support, Ranged/Melee Assassin, etc. They already somewhat have these definitions under the hood for QM balancing and such, but they've said they're working on making them the official roles. Not a huge thing, but useful for basic game literacy and for understanding team compositions. Especially for clarifying what Specialists actually do, which is pretty different between The Lost Vikings, Nazeebo, and Sgt. Hammer for instance.
This just seemed like the natural time for it to come up, but I guess not.
I believe theyre discussing that as well.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keltest
I believe theyre discussing that as well.
Okay, after listening to a dev interview, yeah, that's still coming with this other stuff. They just didn't advertise it for whatever reason.
Also, the interview answered some of my confusion with the latest balance patch where they nerfed Dehaka and Falstad's global capabilities -- presumably Zagara's Nydus nerf as well. They apparently were so overpowered with these XP changes that they'd become mandatory picks, thus they moved preemptively.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Unrelated, we should start eyeballing a new thread title.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Hmm, interesting changes, not sure what to make of them, but I like the idea of moving to a two-dimensional "kills/soaking give xp, pushing and structure destruction gives map control". More decision points.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Is it just me or does Orphea's design remind you off LoL's animesque heroes?
HOTS' art style is not that unique but it starts to somewhat blend...
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Maybe? "Anime-esque" is super vague, especially since she has perfectly normal-sized eyes and face. In terms of visual style, she's not all that far off from Chromie.
That said, her character design does feel straight out of Guilty Gear or Skullgirls, which is pretty rad.
Btw, I'm digging how Alarak-esque she feels, as a quasi-melee mage with sustain.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
I haven't played HotS in forever. But damn, Maiev and Yrel make me want to come back to it...
Argh, there aren't enough hours in the day to do it! I have to gear up to finish the challenge modes in WoW or I'll lose them!
The woes of days too short.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Reporting in from the convention floor -
Orphea is a really high skillcap mage. She's got a lot going on and I spent most of the game just trying to get a feel for how she works.
This becomes an issue with the demo area, where there can only be one Orphea per team, and there's nothing else to really test. No hero reworks, and all the other changes are so subtle that convention floor is worthless.
I'm going to second the "she seems like a league character" comment. Anime girl tropes, not a lot of backstory.
What's more important though is the other stuff they announced at What's Next
As mentioned, changes to the rewards for killing structures are big. Talking to one of the balance designers it's exactly why they nerfed globals on Wednesday. It's hard to tell how much I like the changes without a chance to grind out a dozen games at least. Armor changes were super necessary and an easy A from me.
Otherwise, we're getting Stitches and Sylvanas reworks in December (With the season roll), plus they announced a lot of ranked changes that will come over the course of 2019.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CarpeGuitarrem
Hmm, interesting changes, not sure what to make of them, but I like the idea of moving to a two-dimensional "kills/soaking give xp, pushing and structure destruction gives map control". More decision points.
So far, without further details, I'm not a fan. Mind, I'm looking at this from a Quick Play angle, so maybe that doesn't exactly represent the game at higher levels, but HotS thing have always been the objectives. Even if you had pretty bad players, you could usually get them to come together on the objective. Now, with the objectives devalued (since they mostly tear down structures), some will stay in lanes, while others won't be able to shake 2+ years of conditioning, and always go for the objective (which is good in theory).
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChaosOS
I'm going to second the "she seems like a league character" comment. Anime girl tropes, not a lot of backstory.
...but League has... what? 130-something Champions? Which all exists entirely within the fictional world Riot also has to develop as well. It's not exactly surprising when most of them get routinely ignored, you'd need something of the level of a Marvel or DC to do that substantively and Riot's not really a dedicated publisher even if they were willing. HotS's doesn't have that level of convolution or upkeep. Its main problem is going from Blizzard's Smash Brothers where the points are made up and nothing matters to its own distinct property.
I would compare Orphea to Sora from Kingdom Hearts. He's designed so Square Enix can use him in various ways within the games and associated media that they can't with the eclectic iconic Final Fantasy and Disney characters that the universe is otherwise composed of. Through him, SE can define Kingdom Hearts as a distinct property and have a core identity to this otherwise mashed together convoluted weird fanfic reality. Kingdom Hearts, through him, has a look that's Kingdom Hearts and every OC made resembles him or his two friends to some extent.
Similarly, Orphea's designed to be not-Warcraft, not-Diablo, not-Starcraft, and not-Overwatch but have enough visual indicators to identify her with HotS as a game and not be wholly out of place. That's hard, especially because those franchises take up a huge amount of conceptual space, but there are enough aesthetic elements exclusively within HotS to draw inspiration from as a more cartoony and fanciful universe which are clearly on her character.
Basically, this means that if they're going to do lore in the next year - which, I can't see them just suddenly stopping with the next comic if they decided to start this in the first place - she's who they're going to use to frame it around because she's essentially the only one who they really can. She's, well, the face of the game for the foreseeable future now that they've dropped doing anything else, like those character commercials they used to run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChaosOS
Otherwise, we're getting Stitches and Sylvanas reworks in December (With the season roll), plus they announced a lot of ranked changes that will come over the course of 2019.
Oh, good, because Sylvanas is now supposed to be a Ranged Assassin and she's fairly underwhelming in that role. Plus, she's been in placeholder mode for months since they nerfed her trait.
Though I rather enjoy Stitches, he could probably do with a bit more talent diversity I guess. I only ever go Slam build personally, he feels too ineffective otherwise.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
PTR is up, Orphea is testable... Bloody hell is she strong. If she launches in the state she is, she may well be more banned than Garrosh.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keltest
PTR is up, Orphea is testable... Bloody hell is she strong. If she launches in the state she is, she may well be more banned than Garrosh.
Garrosh was banned more because people didn't like his kit than objective strength though. His win-rate and use in the professional scene increased dramatically after they nerfed his ground-breaker-into-throw combo and made him a little tankier instead.
Orphi's overpowered, sure, probably in their usual effort to get people to pick the new hero up and learn their kit, but I don't think she'll be hard to balance like their more troublesome heroes are, it's mostly damage and maybe a health nerf. I do think it'll be fun to watch those players who can hit her skill cap, to watch her pirouette around the battlefield.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChaosOS
I hadn't considered the Culling of Stratholme as a potential HotS map concept before. While I'm not sure how you could do it within the game exactly, the main appeal of that mission for me was the split strategies of either doing the objective or fighting Mal'Ganis' forces directly which naturally works for HotS. I could easily see them releasing it with Reforged as well.
Also, yeah, it would've been nice to have more content for Blizzcon - particularly for you and Blizzcon goers in general - even though I do prefer the way they've been releasing content this year on the whole. Even if they aren't finalized and they're coming out in December I would've probably included Sylv's and Stitches' reworks as well despite whatever lack of polish they have. After all, Gamescon felt like it had more HotS content than Blizzard's own thing, though the Blizzcon changes are more meaningful long term than Hanamura, Mephisto, and Tyrande's rework.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
TBH I'd be happy just to get some CoS styled mission as a PvE brawl - while the underlying netcode is bad at many people connecting, its very good at handling many units, meaning that HotS is in a unique position of handling PvE horde content better than any other MOBA.
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
PTR Orphea got nerfs btw. (I don't actually think that "they release heroes OP to get people to try them out" squares with the facts. They try to hit balanced hero releases, and sometimes that pans out, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes the playerbase doesn't immediately learn how to play around a hero.)
She's tons of fun, honestly. Aggressive combo mage who feels like Kerrigan more than anything, just without the hyperfocus on dive. I've been focusing mostly on the Chomp quest because quest minigames are fun, and the Dread -> Chomp -> Dread-Chomp combo is really, really fun. The stun ult does seem a little too much for her kit (kinda like how they took Maw away from Kerrigan) because of her potential to set up huge teamwipes with Ult cast -> Dread cast -> Chomp -> Dread-Chomp -> Shadow Waltz to pick off stragglers. (Reminder: Dread-Chomp is not untalented, and counts quest progress as well as giving you the healing benefits of the Chomp quest.)
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Re: Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CarpeGuitarrem
PTR Orphea got nerfs btw. (I don't actually think that "they release heroes OP to get people to try them out" squares with the facts. They try to hit balanced hero releases, and sometimes that pans out, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes the playerbase doesn't immediately learn how to play around a hero.)
She's tons of fun, honestly. Aggressive combo mage who feels like Kerrigan more than anything, just without the hyperfocus on dive. I've been focusing mostly on the Chomp quest because quest minigames are fun, and the Dread -> Chomp -> Dread-Chomp combo is really, really fun. The stun ult does seem a little too much for her kit (kinda like how they took Maw away from Kerrigan) because of her potential to set up huge teamwipes with Ult cast -> Dread cast -> Chomp -> Dread-Chomp -> Shadow Waltz to pick off stragglers. (Reminder: Dread-Chomp is not untalented, and counts quest progress as well as giving you the healing benefits of the Chomp quest.)
Somewhat ironically, from what ive seen so far she seems to struggle the most against other burst mages. the chomp build especially takes a long time to come online to a point where she can engage them safely, and beyond that she's going to be moving in some fairly predictable patterns that make it relatively easy to catch her in your damage or force her to back off.