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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boci
Level 10, 13 ranks, dex mod 5, synergy 2, +10 from magical items, total modifiers +30, no ACP, I can suceed 50% of the time. Before that the chances are even less.
That's not even trying. Acrobatic (incidentally, I think it's a bonus feat for Warblade), Skill Focus, Item Familiar. Your level 10 character now has Tumble +39. He will never fail again.
Also, with Tumble +30, you succeed 55% of the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boci
No, you said "Unless you shout 'just refluff it!' at your DMs face" which has different implications.
A joke is a joke and I'm sorry if you didn't get it. If someone asks why answering there is no way is hardly an answer. Then again, maybe my brazilian jokes are not funny for you. I apologize.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boci
To a reliable get a DC 40 check?
There are alternatives.
I listed but a few options. PersonMan has many more.
DC 40 may seem daunting but, if you invest somewhat into increasing your Tumble skill check, it isn't that hard to get it online reliably. Putting in ranks, taking a level in Exemplar for Skill Mastery(Tumble) and Skill Artistry, 5 ranks in Jump, having a decent Dex, getting a MW Tumbling tool, custom Competence item, a level in Blade Dancer or Foot and Fist Mastery, it all adds up to make that feasible.
Now, I'm not saying you should depend on getting this early. I'm saying it's an alternative that can come online in the midlevels.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
true_shinken
Actually, I think maximized Tumble fits a Warblade a lot better than wild fighting. Specially when you consider you can't use strikes in a charge.
I. The Warblade has access to Tiger Claw, the essence of wild fighting.
II. This is not necessarily true; there are maneuvers that can only be done in a charge. In fact, one of them lets you pounce.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mongoose87
II. This is not necessarily true; there are maneuvers that can only be done in a charge. In fact, one of them lets you pounce.
Yes but that doesn't necessarily allow you to make a full attack as well. Those maneuvers specifically call for a full-round action, which is not a charge attack action, which Pounce specifically needs.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mongoose87
I. The Warblade has access to Tiger Claw, the essence of wild fighting.
He also has access to Diamond Mind, the essence of non-wild fighting.:smallconfused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mongoose87
II. This is not necessarily true; there are maneuvers that can only be done in a charge. In fact, one of them lets you pounce.
Of course not. That's why I said 'I think'.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
true_shinken
That's not even trying. Acrobatic
(incidentally, I think it's a bonus feat for Warblade), Skill Focus, Item Familiar. Your level 10 character now has Tumble +39.
So three feats, two of which aren't warblade bonus feats, and it only really kicks in at level ten. Oh, and one of those feats isn't always allowed and will have significant RP implications if it is. Additional costs are: Armour cannot have ACP, you need to get +10 from magical items. Overall that is quite an investment compared to a single level dip in another martial class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
true_shinken
He will never fail again.
Difficult terrain. Chances are pretty low, but still...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
true_shinken
Also, with Tumble +30, you succeed 55% of the time.
Right you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
true_shinken
A joke is a joke and I'm sorry if you didn't get it. If someone asks why answering there is no way is hardly an answer. Then again, maybe my brazilian jokes are not funny for you. I apologize.
It not just on this thread. To me, you immediatly become needlessly antagonistic as soon as topic, or even the portential for the topic, of refluffing arises. Thats my observation at least.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Guys, just remember to keep it civil. There's no need to argue.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boci
It not just on this thread. To me, you immediatly become needlessly antagonistic as soon as topic, or even the portential for the topic, of refluffing arises. Thats my observation at least.
That's pretty weird, I have plenty of refluffed characters in my game (a human that took Otherwordly even though it's a Faerun regional feat and he's not in Faerun, a Cyran Avenger with the whole class refluffed as 'thirst for battle', a Shiba Protector with No Thought refluffed as weak but skilled, a Sohei with ki frenzy refluffed as an alchemical potion he brewed himself... there are probably more examples if I think about it hard enough). I even suggest refluffing for one of the builds in my Suel Arcanamach handbook.
So I'm sorry, but I think you are just wrong. I have nothing against refluffing, I just don't think it should be done aimlessly.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boci
So three feats, two of which aren't warblade bonus feats, and it only really kicks in at level ten. Oh, and one of those feats isn't always allowed and will have significant RP implications if it is. Additional costs are: Armour cannot have ACP, you need to get +10 from magical items. Overall that is quite an investment compared to a single level dip in another martial class.
Difficult terrain. Chances are pretty low, but still...
ACP-less armor is not terribly difficult to do, especially when you're limited to medium armor. (Tumbler's Breastplate!) Mithral and the Nimble enchantment does much for that. As for +10 magic, that's 10k, which becomes increasingly inconsequential an expense, if WBL is to be believed. It's not a major investment, if we ignore the feats. Again, I didn't say DC 40 Tumble was a low-level trick. And I don't see how dipping cleric for Travel and possibly Knowledge Devotion isn't any more of an expense than dipping Barbarian is.
Quote:
It not just on this thread. To me, you immediatly become needlessly antagonistic as soon as topic, or even the portential for the topic, of refluffing arises. Thats my observation at least.
Could you take that to PM or drop the argument, as it's not pertinent to this thread and I'd rather not see it get locked because of it and I hope neither do you two, either.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elfin
Why not, Draz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elfin
I'd actually disagree that it's dairy at all; really most melee characters need Pounce to be effective. Honestly, I think it's something they should have had from the outset.
I dislike the Pouncing Barbarian Dip for several reasons.
- Even if it's not "cheesy" compared to non-melee builds, it's cheesy. It's just a more powerful ability than a class should get at Level 1.
- It's terrible flavor. Now every decent warrior has to be a non-Lawful rage-fueled savage, at least a little bit? Lolwut.
- There are a few better-designed ways to enable full attacks.
- My inner simulationist is hurt by an at-will ability to move 60 feet and still make several attacks in 6 seconds. Even more than D&D generally hurts, that is. It just ... doesn't look right to me when I imagine it.
- Tome of Battle warriors don't really need full attacks that badly anyway.
- I'm just tired of seeing Barbarian 1 in too many melee builds.
- It bothers me that this ability ever made it through editing. Compare it to the other Complete Champion Totem options ... it's not even in the same league. I've heard some good arguments that Pounce was probably intended to be a Level 5 ACF, but got mixed up in the writing process somehow.
Note that I would similarly disallow Cleric dips just for Travel Devotion, too.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Warblades and the other Martial Adepts can live without Pounce because of all the fun Strikes they get. As for other melee classes, well, that's the fault of 3.x, so what can you do?
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Draz74
- Even if it's not "cheesy" compared to non-melee builds, it's cheesy. It's just a more powerful ability than a class should get at Level 1.
Although you get it at level 1, outside of TWF, which deserves it, and whirling frenzy, it really doesn't help until 6th level.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mongoose87
Although you get it at level 1, outside of TWF, which deserves it, and whirling frenzy, it really doesn't help until 6th level.
Multiclass.
(Your argument is, indeed, why it doesn't bother me much on pure Barbarians. Well, that, and the flavor is more palatable. The simulationist in me still cringes, though.)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Draz74
I dislike the Pouncing Barbarian Dip for several reasons.
- Even if it's not "cheesy" compared to non-melee builds, it's cheesy. It's just a more powerful ability than a class should get at Level 1.
- It's terrible flavor. Now every decent warrior has to be a non-Lawful rage-fueled savage, at least a little bit? Lolwut.
- There are a few better-designed ways to enable full attacks.
- My inner simulationist is hurt by an at-will ability to move 60 feet and still make several attacks in 6 seconds. Even more than D&D generally hurts, that is. It just ... doesn't look right to me when I imagine it.
- Tome of Battle warriors don't really need full attacks that badly anyway.
- I'm just tired of seeing Barbarian 1 in too many melee builds.
- It bothers me that this ability ever made it through editing. Compare it to the other Complete Champion Totem options ... it's not even in the same league. I've heard some good arguments that Pounce was probably intended to be a Level 5 ACF, but got mixed up in the writing process somehow.
Note that I would similarly disallow Cleric dips just for Travel Devotion, too.
Well, I'd like to point out that, outside of heavy optimization, level 6 seems to be where the real-world abilities of humans and DnD start to split. A level 5 fighter is still working within the bounds of our abilities. A level 10 fighter has begun surpassing those. A level 20 character is pretty much super-human. That's why systems like E6 exist; some people want to play characters that aren't superhuman.
Also, having the Rage ability does not mean you have to USE the Rage ability. You could have a character who only uses it when they actually get ANGRY, and have it be partially a role-play ability. Or it could be their reserve ability, for when a fight gets too tough to beat without using their anger as a weapon. Or it could be a cold rage, where he just tries to attack you over and over, unrelenting until it ends. You're claiming it places RP restriction ("rage-fueled savage"), but that's something that you can easily RP differently.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
absolmorph
Well, I'd like to point out that, outside of heavy optimization, level 6 seems to be where the real-world abilities of humans and DnD start to split. A level 5 fighter is still working within the bounds of our abilities. A level 10 fighter has begun surpassing those. A level 20 character is pretty much super-human. That's why systems like E6 exist; some people want to play characters that aren't superhuman.
Look, as far as the "inner simulationist pain" objection goes, I'm not really wanting an argument, and I'm not saying anyone else has to feel the same way. I'm just saying, when I imagine fantasy combat, some abilities "look" right in my head, and at-will Pounce does not.
(Side note: there's a lot of holes in the "level 6 is where characters become superhuman" argument anyway.)
Quote:
Also, having the Rage ability does not mean you have to USE the Rage ability. You could have a character who only uses it when they actually get ANGRY, and have it be partially a role-play ability. Or it could be their reserve ability, for when a fight gets too tough to beat without using their anger as a weapon. Or it could be a cold rage, where he just tries to
attack you over and over, unrelenting until it ends. You're claiming it places RP restriction ("rage-fueled savage"), but that's something that you can easily RP differently.
I'm not a newbie to refluffing classes. I understand all this. I still find it poor game design to need to put a level called "Barbarian" onto an otherwise non-Barbarian-ish character just so he can Pounce.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
This is epicly useful for my PbP game :smallbiggrin:
I am approaching level two though and I had a question I dont think is covered by the wall of blades text block in the book
If I am fighting something and it rolls a d20+3 and say gets a nat 20...If I roll higher than a 23 with my attack do I deflect it or do I have to crit in return to block a crit?
I am away from my book so I figured it would be safe to ask here! :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Not quite sure on the RAW, but a natural 20 is an auto-hit, regardless of AC, and Wall of Blades just gives you an alternative way to calculate AC, I'd say a natural 20 still hits, no matter what.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
I'd lean towards the same verdict, myself.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dgnslyr
Not quite sure on the RAW, but a natural 20 is an auto-hit, regardless of AC, and Wall of Blades just gives you an alternative way to calculate AC, I'd say a natural 20 still hits, no matter what.
Cutting across the issue here, but I'd thought concealment chance cuts across natural 20, doesn't it? If not, there's probably a few disgruntled players I need to talk to... :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saintheart
Cutting across the issue here, but I'd thought concealment chance cuts across natural 20, doesn't it? If not, there's probably a few disgruntled players I need to talk to... :smallbiggrin:
Miss chance provided by concealment should still work on Natural 20s. You're supposed to roll miss chance after you determine if you've achieved a high enough roll to hit that appropriate AC. A natural 20 just means that roll succeeded.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Potential houserules aside, I can't see why Wall of Blades wouldn't stop a Natural 20 by the way it's written.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Draz74
Potential houserules aside, I can't see why Wall of Blades wouldn't stop a Natural 20 by the way it's written.
Draz, Wall of Blades makes you have an AC of X where X is your attack roll. Natural 20 always hits, regardless of AC.
Can't see how it would spot a natural 20.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
true_shinken
Draz, Wall of Blades makes you have an AC of X where X is your attack roll. Natural 20 always hits, regardless of AC.
Can't see how it would spot a natural 20.
Never mind, I'm a moron. I was misremembering the wording of Wall of Blades, and commented on it without bothering to look it up.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Working on third and fourth level maneuvers now. Obviously, my initial timeline has sort of gone down the drain, in part because the project's scope has expanded a lot from my original conception, but I hope to finish all the maneuvers/stances in a week or so.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elfin
Working on third and fourth level maneuvers now. Obviously, my initial timeline has sort of gone down the drain, in part because the project's scope has expanded a lot from my original conception, but I hope to finish all the maneuvers/stances in a week or so.
its a great resource and it is greatly appreciated! :smallbiggrin:
Thank you again for this handbook!
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
About Stonefoot Stance, you say 'most Str checks are outside combat'. But remember, you need a Str check to trip and to bull rush. The stance still sucks, but it does have a larger scope in combat that you mentioned.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Here are a couple of builds I wrote up for some friends of mine. Useful as examples of what you can do with warblade/fighter and Warblade/psychic warrior.
The drummer boy.
Spoiler
Show
needs 13 Str (more is better), needs 17 Dex (less if drop improved TWF),
Human Two Weapon Fighting
Fighter 1 1/0 Power Attack Weapon Focus -Light Mace
Fighter 2 2/1 Lightning Mace
Fighter 3 3/1 Combat Reflexes
Fighter 4 4/2 Weapon Specialization -Light Mace
Warblade 1 5/3 *Emerald Razor *Wolf Fang Strike *Blood in Water *Moment of Perfect Mind *Lightning Recovery
Warblade 2 6/4 Uncanny Dodge Improved Two-Weapon Fighting *Disarming Strike *Dancing Mongoose
Warblade 3 7/5 *Iron Heart Surge
Fighter 5 8/5
Fighter 6 9/6 Melee Weapon Mastery-Bludegoning Improved Critical -Light Mace
Warblade 4 10/7 *Pearl of Black Doubt *Flesh Ripper (lose Wolf Fang Strike)
Warblade 5 11/8 Quickdraw (bonus feat) *Lightning Recovery
Warblade 6 12/9 Two-Weapon Rend Improved Uncanny *Dancing Mongoose (lose one strike)
Fighter 7 13/9
Fighter 8 14/10 Crushing Strike
Lightning Mace
[Style]
(CWar p113)
Combat Reflexes
Two-Weapon Fighting
Weapon Focus (light mace)
If fighting with a Light Mace in each hand, anytime you threaten a Critical, you gain an
additional attack at the same attack bonus.
Two-Weapon Rend
[General, Fighter]
Dexterity 15
Base Attack Bonus +11
Two-Weapon Fighting
If you damage an opponent with each of your weapons in a given round, you do extra damage equal to
1d6 + 1 ½ Strength modifier. With regards to Damage Reduction, use the off-hand weapon
A given creature may only take this rending damage once per round.
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Dexterity 17
Base Attack Bonus +6
Two-Weapon Fighting
As part of a Full Round Attack, you may make an attack
with your secondary weapon at –2, a second attack at –7.
Crushing Strike
[General]
Base Attack Bonus +14
Weapon Focus (any bludgeoning)
Weapon Specialization (any bludgeoning)
Melee Weapon Master – Bludgeoning
When making a Full Round Attack with any Bludgeoning melee weapon, you receive a +1 cumulative
bonus on attack rolls for each roll that has hit this round (i.e., it restarts at +0 at the start of each round).
Melee Weapon Mastery –Bludgeoning
[General, Fighter]
Base Attack Bonus +8
Weapon Focus (any bludgeoning melee)
Weapon Specialization (any bludgeoning melee)
Any Melee Bludgeoning weapon you wield has a +2 bonus on attack & damage rolls.
Disarming Strike Single attack, normal damage, free disarm attempt Standard
Emerald Razor Single attack as touch attack, normal damage Standard
Moment of Perfect Mind Use Concentration check for a Will save Immediate
Dancing Mongoose 1 extra attack per weapon, max 2 extra attacks, Swift
use best attack bonus, single target
Blood in the Water +1 cumulative untyped attack and damage per critical hit (see text) Stance
Wolf Fang Strike Attack with both weapons on one opponent, -2 both attacks Standard
Iron Heart Surge End one effect on you, +2 morale bonus on attacks for one round Standard
Pearl of Black Doubt +2 cumulative dodge bonus per melee attack that misses you, Stance
resets at the beginning of your round
Flesh Ripper Single attack, target has -4 AC and attacks for 1 round, Standard
Fort save (13+Str mod) negates, crit multiplies the duration (see text)
Lightning Recovery Reroll one attack at +2 to hit Immediate
Attack Routines at level 11
Glaive base atk +11 dmg 1d10 crit 20 x3 (+ 1.5 xStr) reach weapon, 2hander
Maul base atk +13 dmg 1d10+2 crit 20 x2 (+ 1.5 xStr) 2hander
Glaive (reach) for attack of opportunity, drop glaive and quickdraw maul
Emerald Razor + Power Attack (touch attack and power atk -10 to hit +20 dmg)
Two Light Maces base atk +12/+7/+2 dmg 1d6+4 crit 19-20 x2 (+ Str)
offhand +12/+7 dmg 1d6+4 crit 19-20 x2 (+ 0.5 xStr)
on threat (19-20) get extra attack at same attack bonus
on crit get +1 to hit & dmg for all following attacks (bonus lasts from the
last crit +10 rounds) while in Blood in the Water stance
at level 12 Str 15 (+2), +1 collision maces.
Two Light Maces base atk +16/+16/+11/+6 dmg 1d6+12 crit 19-20 x2
offhand +16/+16/+11 dmg 1d6+11 crit 19-20 x2
on threat (19-20) get extra attack at same attack bonus
on crit get +1 to hit & dmg for all following attacks (bonus lasts from the
last crit +10 rounds) while in Blood in the Water stance
if hit at least once with each weapon Rend for 1d6+3
Withering: A rod of withering acts as a +1 light mace that deals no hit point damage. Instead, the
wielder deals 1d4 points of Strength damage and 1d4 points of Constitution damage to any creature
she touches with the rod (by making a melee touch attack). If she scores a critical hit, the damage from
that hit is permanent ability drain. In either case, the defender negates the effect with a DC 17 Fort save.
Mr. Smush
Spoiler
Show
DEEP IMPACT [PSIONIC]
Prerequisite: Str 13, Psionic Weapon, base attack bonus +5.
Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You can resolve your attack
with a melee weapon as a touch attack. You must decide whether or not to use this feat prior
to making an attack. If your attack misses, you still expend your psionic focus
GREATER PSIONIC WEAPON [PSIONIC]
Prerequisite: Str 13, Psionic Weapon, base attack bonus +5.
Benefit: When you use the Psionic Weapon feat, your attack with a melee weapon deals an
extra 4d6 points of damage instead of an extra 2d6 points.
PSIONIC BODY [PSIONIC]
Benefit: When you take this feat, you gain 2 hit points for each psionic feat you have
(including this one). Whenever you take a new psionic feat, you gain 2 more hit points.
PSIONIC WEAPON [PSIONIC]
Prerequisite: Str 13.
Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus.
Your attack with a melee weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. You must decide
whether or not to use this feat prior to making an attack. If your attack misses,
you still expend your psionic focus
level class bab/ini pow/lvl feats
1 psywar1 0/0 1,1 psionic weapon, power attack, Force Screen
2 psywar2 1/1 2,1 psionic body, Float
3 warblade1 2/2 3-3-1 (1) improved toughness, Moment of Perfect Mind, 2m, 1s
4 warblade2 3/3 4-3-1 (2) Emerald Razor
5 psywar3 4/3 3,1 Expansion
6 warblade3 5/4 5-3-1 (2) deep impact, Battle Leader's Charge
7 psywar4 6/5 4,2 Body Adjustment
8 warblade4 7/6 t-4-2 (3) White Raven Tactics, Pearl of Black Doubt
9 psywar5 7/6 5,2 greater psi weapon, psionic meditation
@12
{standard} emerald razor, PA 10, +str vs. touch AC, wp+(str*1.5)+20
{swift} lightning recovery if miss
{move} psionic meditation [regain focus]
{swift} regain maneuvers
{standard} deep impact [expend focus], PA 10, +str vs. touch AC, wp+(str*1.5)+20
{move} [open]
Sorry about the formatting, I imported them from spreadsheets and didn't fool with them too much.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
I was going to post them all in one go, but I think I'll stick to the bit-by-bit method. I decided to make IHS and WRT gold rather than cyan - do you think that was a good choice, or should I make them cyan instead? My reasoning was that they're by far the most amazing level 3 warblade maneuvers, and never run out of use: in a sense, they're the essential 3rd-level maneuvers.
Thanks for the builds, by the way, Telok! I'll make sure to put them up.
Edit: I do sort of feel like I'm being harsh on Stone Dragon. What are your guys' thoughts?
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elfin
I was going to post them all in one go, but I think I'll stick to the bit-by-bit method. I decided to make IHS and WRT gold rather than cyan - do you think that was a good choice, or should I make them cyan instead? My reasoning was that they're by far the most amazing level 3 warblade maneuvers, and never run out of use: in a sense, they're the essential 3rd-level maneuvers.
Thanks for the builds, by the way, Telok! I'll make sure to put them up.
Edit: I do sort of feel like I'm being harsh on Stone Dragon. What are your guys' thoughts?
It would depend on the DM. If you're allowed to use it on yourself, WRT is definitely golden. I'd put IHS as cyan, because it depends on the DM even more so.
Nope, you're being perfectly fair to Stone Dragon. Pick up Mountain Hammer, Mountain Tombstone Strike, and completely ignore the rest.
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elfin
I was going to post them all in one go, but I think I'll stick to the bit-by-bit method. I decided to make IHS and WRT gold rather than cyan - do you think that was a good choice, or should I make them cyan instead?
Personally, I'd say WRT = gold, IHS = "only" cyan.
Quote:
Edit: I do sort of feel like I'm being harsh on Stone Dragon. What are your guys' thoughts?
Hmmm, the only one I've thought was entirely the wrong color was Charging Minotaur. It's awesome damage at low levels and never entirely loses value as a cheap way of getting "temporary Improved Bull Rush" (unless, of course, your Warblade takes the actual feat).
In general, I think you're looking at Stone Dragon too much in terms of how they scale, when they're actually decent at the levels you can first get them. You keep calling Save DCs "low" (Bonecrusher, Exorcism of Steel), but they're not, when you first get them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Black_Zawisza
Nope, you're being perfectly fair to Stone Dragon. Pick up Mountain Hammer, Mountain Tombstone Strike, and completely ignore the rest.
Oversimplistic.
Mountain Hammer is excellent in any case, yes. Every Warblade should take it. Mountain Tombstone Strike? Not so much. It's decent if you get to ignore the "must not be flying" thing, or if you're in a campaign where not many things fly. But even then, I wouldn't call it a must-have.
And if you're in a campaign where the flight thing isn't a problem, there are a few other Stone Dragon maneuvers that are decent, if not amazing:
Spoiler
Show
- Charging Minotaur
- Stone Bones (an incredible choice to take at Level 1, swap out at Level 4)
- Roots of the Mountain -- good battlefield control if you're too feat-starved to pick up Thicket of Blades
- Bonesplitting Strike
- Elder Mountain Hammer
- Mountain Avalanche
- Crushing Vise
- Irresistible Mountain Strike
- Ancient Mountain Hammer
Elfin just hasn't gotten to the levels where most of these decent maneuvers are at.