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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Might want to edit that out - The competition has been based around anonymity, and we're so awesome/sad that we are pretty much capable of guessing which build yours is just from that.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Darrin
It was part of a legal settlement, so WotC was willing to settle with Kenzer & Co. David Kenzer actually had them dead to rights and was doing them a favor by letting them off so easy. As far as I am aware, both parties were very amicable about the settlement, and Kenzer was able to turn Hackmaster from a running gag into an actual full-blown RPG.
Very interesting. Thanks for the background!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Darrin
The problem with Kalamar is that although they have the 1st party logo and the legal rights to it, the actual book was printed by Kenzer & Co. and WotC had very little (if any) editorial control over the content. If your IC criteria is 1) must have 1st party logo and 2) must be printed by WotC, then Dragon Compendium satisfies both, while Kalamar falls short on #2.
I'm confused; wasn't DMC printed by Paizo? Or is it some weird situation where Wizards printed it and Paizo just published it? :smallconfused:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMG PONIES
I'm confused; wasn't DMC printed by Paizo? Or is it some weird situation where Wizards printed it and Paizo just published it? :smallconfused:
You may have a point there, but I'm AFB at the moment. Amazon says Paizo is the publisher, but I don't know if they were printing any other hardbacks at that point. I don't recall the specifics on the copyright page.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Venomfire is in Serpent Kingdoms. It could totally appear in any given IC round. Or did you mean there's something in KoK that lets you use templated animal companions?
And I thought Serpent Kingdoms was part of the KOK series. It seems I am wrong.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Yup. SK (or that Pun-Pun book) is one of the reasons that Faerun is considered to be the most broken setting.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AvatarVecna
I'm gonna have to drop out of this one. I've only found a few interesting mechanical exploits, Spellsword doesn't easily lend itself to a particular mindset (which is how I figure out what kind of character would take it), the stubs I've come up with are boring and predictable, and the Spellsword is a terrible gish class with one redeeming feature (Channel Spell) that's too limited in uses/day to be killer.
Gah! I don't like the Spellsword. I hope someone else found something enjoyable to do with it, at least.
I'm considering an entry, but have similar feelings. Basically I don't want to just toss an awesome backstory on something that would be fine if it had just been a Duskblade instead.
For me it comes down to wether I can find a few spells to channel that synergize with a mundane combat style that would make my build better at that style than a duskblade could dream of being.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Darrin
The problem with Kalamar is that although they have the 1st party logo and the legal rights to it, the actual book was printed by Kenzer & Co. and WotC had very little (if any) editorial control over the content. If your IC criteria is 1) must have 1st party logo and 2) must be printed by WotC, then Dragon Compendium satisfies both, while Kalamar falls short on #2.
Doesn't Dragon Magazine satisfies both criterias too? If it is that so why DM aren't allowed on Iron Chef?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
I've worked through a few backstories so far, and I keep coming back to one point of my personal criteria that I can't fit: why is Spellsword the best option for this character, given their mindset? This wasn't an issue in Dwarven Defender: sure, it sucks, but there's a mindset to the fighting style that's easy to understand and write, as shown with the 21 entries that contest dealt with. This? This is a primary caster who decided that the most efficient path to power was to cripple their spellcasting in exchange for increasing their pathetic martial prowess.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vincent Dragon
Doesn't Dragon Magazine satisfies both criterias too? If it is that so why DM aren't allowed on Iron Chef?
Dragon Magazine was published by Paizo, for WotC. This is a significant factor in how Pathfinder became a thing.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AvatarVecna
I've worked through a few backstories so far, and I keep coming back to one point of my personal criteria that I can't fit: why is Spellsword the best option for this character, given their mindset? This wasn't an issue in Dwarven Defender: sure, it sucks, but there's a mindset to the fighting style that's easy to understand and write, as shown with the 21 entries that contest dealt with. This? This is a primary caster who decided that the most efficient path to power was to cripple their spellcasting in exchange for increasing their pathetic martial prowess.
Obviously you just need to ignore the fact that Duskblade exists. I find that the easiest way to do so is to chain Time Regressions back to April, 2006. :smallwink:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Muggins
Obviously you just need to ignore the fact that Duskblade exists. I find that the easiest way to do so is to chain Time Regressions back to April, 2006. :smallwink:
You're welcome to do that, somebody may very well win this competition with a build that "should" have Duskblade levels. However it just doesn't sit well with some people.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
I am sure that I share this opinion with the Chair, most the Judges, and most the Contestants... 'screw other people, and what does or doesn't sit with them'. Build something that you like and think is fun, don't build something simply because you think other people will want it.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
I am sure that I share this opinion with the Chair, most the Judges, and most the Contestants... 'screw other people, and what does or doesn't sit with them'. Build something that you like and think is fun, don't build something simply because you think other people will want it.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
I did bring up the Kingdoms of Kalamar settlement issue in another thread but Darrin was able to expand on it there as well as here with all of the specific information that I did not know.
From what I understand, the Dragon Magazine Compendium had WotC editing which is why it is allowed versus individual issues. The classic articles section in the Compendium is almost completely drawn from Dragon Magazines from 1st edition and when TSR published Dragon.
Expedition to Castle Ravenloft is perfectly legal for Iron Chef as it is a WotC printed adventure. I think we have had Knights of the Raven entries in Iron Chef. Outside of this one adventure, Ravenloft had not been part of the officially licensed WotC settings. Thus the Ravenloft Campaign Setting is not legal; it was printed by Sword and Sorcery.
The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is considered first party and legal for Iron Chef. None of the subsequent books are allowed as they are third party.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hand_of_Vecna
You're welcome to do that, somebody may very well win this competition with a build that "should" have Duskblade levels. However it just doesn't sit well with some people.
My general rule of thumb for these competitions has been "If it would be better to just keep taking more levels of X, then I shouldn't take ANY levels of X, and should find another way." That way I restrict myself to finding niche uses of the SI that are reasonable and potent.
At this point in my build, I'm stuck with using [Redacted] for a penalty, or not using every part of the buffalo for a penalty. Now it's just time to figure out which one feels more appropriate.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hand_of_Vecna
You're welcome to do that, somebody may very well win this competition with a build that "should" have Duskblade levels. However it just doesn't sit well with some people.
Given the number of Base Classes & PrCs from which we can draw in 3.5, the number of actually unique features presented among those Classes, and the general emphasis in Iron Chef on picking sub-par PrCs as the main course, applying "why didn't you use [X] instead?" could ultimately justify penalizing every IC build ever submitted. Thankfully, we've thus far avoided that level of armchair-quarterbacking from the judges.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amphetryon
Given the number of Base Classes & PrCs from which we can draw in 3.5, the number of actually unique features presented among those Classes, and the general emphasis in Iron Chef on picking sub-par PrCs as the main course, applying "why didn't you use [X] instead?" could ultimately justify penalizing every IC build ever submitted. Thankfully, we've thus far avoided that level of armchair-quarterbacking from the judges.
Right, there's no need to penalize someone for, say, not taking any levels of Duskblade in this round. However, if you were to take Duskblade levels, THAT would prompt me to ask, "why didn't you just take more Duskblade?" Essentially, if you include it in your build, you include it in my consideration.
I'm not judging this round though, I'm definitely cooking.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
I am having way more trouble putting a build together than I thought I would.
Two ideas. Two different approaches. But I'm not loving either one.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tim Proctor
screw other people
Hey now, this is a family show! :smalltongue:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMG PONIES
Hey now, this is a family show! :smalltongue:
Well, scratch that build then. :smalleek:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hand_of_Vecna
I'm considering an entry, but have similar feelings. Basically I don't want to just toss an awesome backstory on something that would be fine if it had just been a Duskblade instead.
For me it comes down to wether I can find a few spells to channel that synergize with a mundane combat style that would make my build better at that style than a duskblade could dream of being.
Don't want to give the game away too much, but have a read through Spell Channel. It's a bit different than duskblade.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vaz
Don't want to give the game away too much, but have a read through Spell Channel. It's a bit different than duskblade.
yes it is, and that difference when read can be important rules wise.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Not enought feats...
Trying my harders to stay away from one flaw.
But the build is almost done
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FireJustice
Not enought feats...
Trying my harders to stay away from one flaw.
But the build is almost done
http://fciwypsc.files.wordpress.com/...its-a-trap.jpg
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Spoiler: Revived Iron Chef Class table
Show
Level |
Class |
Base Attack Bonus |
Fort Save |
Ref Save |
Will Save |
Skills |
Feats |
Class Features |
1st |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
2nd |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
3rd |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
4th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
5th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
6th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
7th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
8th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
9th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
10th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
11th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
12th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
13th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
14th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
15th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
16th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
17th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
18th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
19th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
20th |
New Class Level |
+x |
+x |
+x |
+x |
Skills |
Feats |
New Class Abilities |
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Build is submitted. I feel like it has been ages since I've competed! Mr. Chairman, I sent you two PMs - can you confirm that you received both when you get the chance?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
I said I would compete and I had my build laid out by the first day, but I neglected to type anything :smalleek:. We'll see if I can enter something, I've still got time.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
I actually put together a second build stub that I'm pretty amused by, but I don't think I'll put it together into a real entry. I just don't have the heart to work out another full write-up, figure out fluff, et al. I'll post the idea after the reveal.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Piggy Knowles
I actually put together a second build stub that I'm pretty amused by, but I don't think I'll put it together into a real entry. I just don't have the heart to work out another full write-up, figure out fluff, et al. I'll post the idea after the reveal.
Awesome, can't wait to see it. This is actually a really neat ingredient, I think.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII
Sorry for the double post, but I was wondering what the current judges thought about LA buyoff? Will it be frowned upon? Should it be included as a variant? Should I not ask questions like this and just make my build?