Pokémon Thread XXX: Hot Skitty on Wailord Action!

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Originally Posted by Rater202

So, in the pokemon Games, there are just...

People who know Pokemon Moves.

The Move Tutors, they... Seem to know the moves.

Like, the guys who teach Mega Punch and Mega Kick in Gen 1 are martial artists specialized in Punching and Kicking. The Dream Eater tutor is a guy who knows how to eat dreams after dreaming about his dream being eaten.

Not a tutor, but the manager at the Kanto Power Plant in Gen 2 claims to be so mad he can blast things... And Acts like he himself is the one who can use Charge Beam.

Was that ever explained? I don't think you see that talked about very much.

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Not really. Pokemon? Explain things? Not exactly two things that go together. This is a franchise that is trying to sell you on the idea that despite magical creatures existing alongside humanity since the dawn of time, the only encyclopedia we have on them is a digital one written by ten-year olds with questionable information on them. The pokedex might as well be this universes wikipedia.

these random people you meet, claiming to know these moves? well the mega hit guys is more explainable as humans as shown in the anime are able to train themselves to fight with their fighting type pokemon, often fighting type gym leaders who spar with their own machoke, Lucario and what have you. So two guys being able to do those pokemon mvoes? more plausible since they have hands and feet, they can get strong. thats the logic that most normal moves run on and Pokemon moves have a sort of "infinity energy anyone can harness with the right access" thing going so...Why not?

electric types attacks on the other hand? bit less explainable. that guy might actually just be crazy that works in a specific instance, which is teaching your pokemon a thing. in the anime there is sabrina who can use psychic energy, but thats explicitly because she was born that way, most people can't do that or at least aren't born with the massive amount of psychic power she has, but there is no real electric equivalent as far as we know. so unless the guy is some super-rare guy born with the ability to somehow tap into the electric energy of the universe, he is probably just a highly functional crazy, which isn't implausible for pokemon-verse, as pokemon is full of crazy people who do things like stand around in dark caves or swim around in the open ocean with no visible means of sustaining themselves waiting for people to walk/swim by to challenge them to duels. how are they alive? we don't know, but they're somehow alive so whatever form of insanity they have doesn't impact their ability to somehow get food and water to make sure they keep standing/floating there.

If you were in charge of designing new Rotom Formes, what would you do?

I like the idea of a Jackhammer for ground type and an industrial saw for steel type.

Or maybe a seismograph for ground and the jackhammer can be rock?

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Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

how are they alive? we don't know, but they're somehow alive so whatever form of insanity they have doesn't impact their ability to somehow get food and water to make sure they keep standing/floating there.

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Headcanon: Every human in the pokemon universe knows Recycle and Recover, and carries a Leppa Berry and Berry Juice (or other food item). This explains why no one needs to get fed, go to a pokemon center, or really do much at all: They're a post-scarcity society because everyone is taught two Normal moves.

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Originally Posted by Fable Wright

Headcanon: Every human in the pokemon universe knows Recycle and Recover, and carries a Leppa Berry and Berry Juice (or other food item). This explains why no one needs to get fed, go to a pokemon center, or really do much at all: They're a post-scarcity society because everyone is taught two Normal moves.

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....I'd say this is ridiculous because there is no visible way for humans to do this, but there isn't really an explanation for how pokemon do Recycle or Recover either so......fair I guess?

...Idea for Pokemon Cyberpunk thing: After studying how some humans are able to use psychic powers, aura, or whatever it is that makes fighting type moves work, Megacorp develops means to teach all humans certain normal type moves specifically for the sake of drastically improved quality of life via recycling, recover, and so on.

Of course, the big money boom came in the first generation as their region and nearby ones used it en mass, with minor booms as the technology was imported to other regions, but several generations later the stead income from that isn't enough to keep the company afloat anymore requiring people to kick other research into hyperdrive even as the megacorp supplants the League, the Government, and all other business in the Region.

...Even the Pokeballs all have different designs from the sylph co produced pokeballs and the custom made ones that the one guy in Jhoto gives you.

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Originally Posted by Rater202

...Idea for Pokemon Cyberpunk thing: After studying how some humans are able to use psychic powers, aura, or whatever it is that makes fighting type moves work, Megacorp develops means to teach all humans certain normal type moves specifically for the sake of drastically improved quality of life via recycling, recover, and so on.

Of course, the big money boom came in the first generation as their region and nearby ones used it en mass, with minor booms as the technology was imported to other regions, but several generations later the stead income from that isn't enough to keep the company afloat anymore requiring people to kick other research into hyperdrive even as the megacorp supplants the League, the Government, and all other business in the Region.

...Even the Pokeballs all have different designs from the sylph co produced pokeballs and the custom made ones that the one guy in Johto gives you.

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I have a concept of "former team rocket grunt, now rattata/female nidoran hybrid" for that. if those aren't starter enough (they're pretty weak and beginner level mons) I can always do litten instead.

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Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

I have a concept of "former team rocket grunt, now rattata/female nidoran hybrid" for that. if those aren't starter enough (they're pretty weak and beginner level mons) I can always do litten instead.

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No, that's fine.

I still think we need more stuff before we can do this... At least one more dedicated player

Off the top of my head, we need to name the region.

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Originally Posted by Rater202

Depending on continuity, they do have human like intelligence.

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Observation on Dragon Type.

In the original Japanese, rather than written with the Japanese Character's for dragon, Dragon Type is "doragon" spelled out in kana.

Most types uses the Japanese or a loan word with a specific meaning in Japanese—water type is "mizutaipu." fire is Honōtaipu, and so on. Psychic is Esupataipo, "esper type" which is using the loan term ESP as a root word, but the only types in gen 1 that just flat out use the english name in the original japanese are normal, dragon, and ghost.

There would not be another type to follow this conversion until Fairy.

so, ignoring Normal becuase it's normal: Ghost Type in gen one seems to be based on Western Ghost stories with just a little bit of Japanese Ghost Lore to give it flavor. Gengar is named after a german "doppleganger" in both generations, and in Japanese Gastly an d Haunter are literally named Ghos and Ghost so Ghost type refering exclusively to this one familial line in gen one and 2 using the english could have been a pun.

Fairy is pretty clea cut based on western pop culture fairies and western lore or fairies, goblins, and the like.

Now let's look at Dragon Type:

Dragon-type Pokemon, due to the majority of them being legendary, pseudo-legendary, Third Form evolutions, or Mega Evolutions, have the highest stat totals of any type, on average.

Dragon-Type moves all talk about power and rage and destruction. Drago types are fered to as difficult to control but very powerful.

There is not a single Pure Dragon-Type pokemon that resembles an Eastern Dragon Most of them resemble serpents, lindworms, wyrms, or wyverns: Different kinds of western dragons. The ones that don't resemble dinosaurs. The exception is the Goomy evolutionary family, who are based on the Tarasque(a shelled dragon) or Lou Carcolh, a snail-like dragon, both from French folklore.

Of duel types, Rayquaza comes closest to an Eastern DRagon, but more closlty resembles a flying Lindworm.

The rest, if they resemble a dragon, resemble a western dragon or sometimes a dinosaur.

So, what Pokemon do resemble Eastern Dragons?

I am 100% certain that "Dragon Type" is meant to refer to "Western Dragons" and tha'ts why Gyarados isn't Dragon Type—Gyarados resembles an Eastern Dragon and is based on a legend about how Eastern Dragons are born.

It gets Dragon tYpe moves, but as a Water Flying type it fits pretty well into Eastern depictions of dragons as spirits of water and wind.

I think Gyarados is meant to represent dragons as an embodiment of nature.

More controversially: I think that Dragons as sources of mystical power and wisdom are represented by the ABra Line. come on, they look like anthropomorphic eastern dragons.

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I never seen a Dragon Type Pokemon spoke like a human before. I do know that a few Pokemon talk such as Meowth and Mewtwo actually talk. (I only watched Pokemon the Anime Series Season 1).

I always figured the Nidoran's are "just" rabbits who evolve into speedy rhinos who evolve into rhino inspired retrosaurs, tied together by design elements like spikes and their colors. They look natural enough, as evolution lines...

But the hyrax-large mammal connection seems plausible as well...

Move tutors are a bit of an "insufficient information" thing. They could just have a Pokémon that knows the move to help them teach. That's probably the easiest explanation. Maybe they know exactly how a Pokémon can make the move work without being able to use it themselves. (I think that's how Ash's Buizel learns Ice Punch in the anime?) Maybe they're hackers or something who use a TM/storage system kind of setup. Some of them collect shards said to be remnants of ancient technology, maybe that technology can teach moves...

They need to bring back the Mega Pokemon.

They need to bring back posts that are more than a one sentence blurb on a new topic.

What?

(In other words: please state why you are of this opinion.)

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Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert

They need to bring back posts that are more than a one sentence blurb on a new topic.

What?

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I'm just saying that Mega Pokemon are better than the Dynamax and the Gigantmax version. I just not feeling the Giant Version of Pokemon. Mega Pokemon is a more powerful and much better option.

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Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert

Maybe they know exactly how a Pokémon can make the move work without being able to use it themselves. (I think that's how Ash's Buizel learns Ice Punch in the anime?)

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Yeah, that happens quite a bit in the anime. I seem to remember particularly one Gym Leader, I think, teaching James' Cagnea to use Needle Arm by giving its arm a bit of a twist and stuff - so you saw the process.

I'm not the only one who wonders that, if slowpoke evolves because a shellder bit its tail or its head while it was holding a kingsrock, what would happen if it got bit by a cloister(or if the symbiotic shellder evolved) am I?

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Originally Posted by Rater202

I'm not the only one who wonders that, if slowpoke evolves because a shellder bit its tail or its head while it was holding a kingsrock, what would happen if it got bit by a cloister(or if the symbiotic shellder evolved) am I?

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I looked up art of what the theoretical result would be, found only one relevant image, aaaaand its really silly and badly drawn, don't bother wondering. it wouldn't be anything worth it, its just silly.

At a guess, the symbiotic corkscrew shellder is technically already evolved into something else that can't further evolve.

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Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer

I'm just saying that Mega Pokemon are better than the Dynamax and the Gigantmax version. I just not feeling the Giant Version of Pokemon. Mega Pokemon is a more powerful and much better option.

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I actually kind of like dynamaxing. Mega evolution as a hero mechanic for your ace pokemon is too restrictive. What if I like one of the hundreds of Pokémon that don't have a mega form? At the same time it's more "personal" to the Pokémon you're using than Z-moves. Quagsire growing is inherently more about Quagsire than Quagsire having a stronger move, ones.

At the same time dynamaxing is also more strategically involved than either mega evolution or Z-moves. You can decide during the battle which mon to use it on and when. And you get several extra moves to play with. (Even though they come from a very limited pool of moves, which makes dynamaxing a bit boring after a while.) Better stats are cool and all, but the onely real gameplay change mega evolution makes is the ability, in part of the cases. And even apllied on the fly dynamaxing makes a difference. It's a bit like a single free counter to any one bit of the battle you really have no other way of dealing with. That's good, prevents frustrating situations.

Gigantamax as a thing alongside dynamax is weird and was implemented weird. Not the biggest fan. Training up your mon's dynamax level seperately is also a bit meh. But I expect overall the gen 9 hero mechanic will be similar. Use on any pokémon, a minor visual change that emphasizes the mon's power, replacement moves or some added effect to moves (similar to Z-moves, would be a big improvement for status moves in particular).

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Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert

I actually kind of like dynamaxing. Mega evolution as a hero mechanic for your ace pokemon is too restrictive. What if I like one of the hundreds of Pokémon that don't have a mega form? At the same time it's more "personal" to the Pokémon you're using than Z-moves. Quagsire growing is inherently more about Quagsire than Quagsire having a stronger move, ones.

At the same time dynamaxing is also more strategically involved than either mega evolution or Z-moves. You can decide during the battle which mon to use it on and when. And you get several extra moves to play with. (Even though they come from a very limited pool of moves, which makes dynamaxing a bit boring after a while.) Better stats are cool and all, but the onely real gameplay change mega evolution makes is the ability, in part of the cases. And even apllied on the fly dynamaxing makes a difference. It's a bit like a single free counter to any one bit of the battle you really have no other way of dealing with. That's good, prevents frustrating situations.

Gigantamax as a thing alongside dynamax is weird and was implemented weird. Not the biggest fan. Training up your mon's dynamax level seperately is also a bit meh. But I expect overall the gen 9 hero mechanic will be similar. Use on any pokémon, a minor visual change that emphasizes the mon's power, replacement moves or some added effect to moves (similar to Z-moves, would be a big improvement for status moves in particular).

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That's a very reasonable and valid opinion. I respect your input on that. :smile:

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Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert

At the same time dynamaxing is also more strategically involved than either mega evolution or Z-moves. You can decide during the battle which mon to use it on and when. And you get several extra moves to play with. (Even though they come from a very limited pool of moves, which makes dynamaxing a bit boring after a while.) Better stats are cool and all, but the onely real gameplay change mega evolution makes is the ability, in part of the cases. And even apllied on the fly dynamaxing makes a difference. It's a bit like a single free counter to any one bit of the battle you really have no other way of dealing with. That's good, prevents frustrating situations.

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Wat. :smallconfused:

I'm going to disagree here. Dynamaxing is something that involves skill, yes, but it massively doubles down on first-turn advantage. The first person to initiate Dynamax more or less has their pick of pokemon removed from the fight (what with hitting with an unexpected dynamax move with massive stat buffs) and stacks on some pretty massive environmental or stat buff bonuses, meaning that the counter-dynamax is far less impactful, since a dynamax with e.g. +1 speed and +1 attack stage (looking at you, Gyarados/Hawlucha) is far more threatening than a new counter-dynamax, and leads to pretty massive snowballing. Not to mention the fact that Dynamax removing choice lock from 'mon means that certain Choice cleaners (looking at Galarian Darmanitan with Gorilla Tactics and a Choice item as a prime abuser) can completely bypass their designated counter with a well-timed dynamaxed coverage move when, in any other generation, it could be forced out with a counter.

It takes a huge chunk of the strategy of Pokemon and turns it into a single question: Is now the time to dynamax? And if you get that question right, you win. If you don't, you lose.

It's more balanced in Doubles by a long shot, but it's a fundamentally aggressive ability that I'd argue concentrates the strategy of pokemon into one turn that decides the match. That's not an increase in strategy.

Evolution and Z-Moves are more team-building strategy, first and foremost. They don't change the match, they're just more customization options for a given pokemon. Neither is as match-swingy as Dynamax, of course, but you can very easily justify a team without either, and they don't fundamentally decrease the amount of strategy in the game for their existence.

I'll also note that type changes from Mega evolutions can be seriously impactful, too, as someone who played a lot with Mega Pinsir. Adding flying type when Stealth Rocks exists is something you really need to be aware of.

I love Alcremie. She reminds me of the Toad Chef, Tayce T. from Paper Mario. I can imagine if Alcremie have her own cooking show: "Cooking With Alcremie." :smile:

I'd like to see a biology textbook from the Pokemon world's perspective, talking about the biology of all these little monsters.

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Originally Posted by Rater202

I'd like to see a biology textbook from the Pokemon world's perspective, talking about the biology of all these little monsters.

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I dunno, some of these aren't really biology. for starters, magnemite is more probably electronics/machinery, grimer is probably closer to chemistry, trubbish is literal garbage, ghosts don't have physical form, voltorb might as well have the same diagram as a bomb-omb, and unown are freaking LETTERS and thus have an existence more conceptual and abstract than biological or ectological. this is just a few examples of the nonsensical existences of pokemon

like I'd just figure they are all on some level magic and trying to scientifically explain all of it is an exercise in futility that even Lockstin knows he has to give up on sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

I dunno, some of these aren't really biology. for starters, magnemite is more probably electronics/machinery, grimer is probably closer to chemistry, trubbish is literal garbage, ghosts don't have physical form, voltorb might as well have the same diagram as a bomb-omb, and unown are freaking LETTERS and thus have an existence more conceptual and abstract than biological or ectological. this is just a few examples of the nonsensical existences of pokemon

like I'd just figure they are all on some level magic and trying to scientifically explain all of it is an exercise in futility that even Lockstin knows he has to give up on sometimes.

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Yeah, but some of the ones that you wouldn't expect to be biological explicitly have biological traits: Milcery and alchemy both make allusions to having cells despite being made of what appears to be congealed milk.

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Originally Posted by Rater202

Yeah, but some of the ones that you wouldn't expect to be biological explicitly have biological traits: Milcery and alcremie both make allusions to having cells despite being made of what appears to be congealed milk.

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Wait I thought up of something even more confusing and horrifying: does Milcery come from miltanks? Do Miltank mothers feed their milcery children to their miltank children? are milcery and miltank destined to see each other as predator and prey from birth and milcery live their lives knowing they are born from their own predator?

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Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

Wait I thought up of something even more confusing and horrifying: does Milcery come from miltanks? Do Miltank mothers feed their milcery children to their miltank children? are milcery and miltank destined to see each other as predator and prey from birth and milcery live their lives knowing they are born from their own predator?

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Milcery can be bred naturally, so I don't think there's a connection. Milcery and Alcremie also apparently like being eaten and can regenerate their cells. This actually has some disturbing implications.

The real question is where the hell wild Tauros come from.

Tauros is an all-male species, the only way to breed them in captivity is to pair them with a ditto.

Some people have speculated that Tauros and Miltank are two radically dimorphic forms of the same species similar to the Nidoran family, based on how they're both bovine and exclusively male and female respectively, but a miltank will only ever produce militanks, even if bred with Tauros.

It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to speculate that there's differences between breeding in captivity and breeding in the wild that would explain some of the problems – after all, the various Incense items could be a way of mimicking a limited subset of environmental factors from a wild environment not present in captivity.

Is there any robot Pokemon that exist in the Pokemon universe? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer

Is there any robot Pokemon that exist in the Pokemon universe? :confused:

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I suppose you don’t mean Team Rocket robots lol ! But I consider Magneton line to be machine Pokémon. They are metal type, has no mouth or nose to breath or eat and with no gender.

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Originally Posted by Rater202

I'd like to see a biology textbook from the Pokemon world's perspective, talking about the biology of all these little monsters.

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Here you go.

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Originally Posted by Fable Wright

Wat. :smallconfused:

I'm going to disagree here. Dynamaxing is something that involves skill, yes, but it massively doubles down on first-turn advantage. The first person to initiate Dynamax more or less has their pick of pokemon removed from the fight (what with hitting with an unexpected dynamax move with massive stat buffs) and stacks on some pretty massive environmental or stat buff bonuses, meaning that the counter-dynamax is far less impactful, since a dynamax with e.g. +1 speed and +1 attack stage (looking at you, Gyarados/Hawlucha) is far more threatening than a new counter-dynamax, and leads to pretty massive snowballing. Not to mention the fact that Dynamax removing choice lock from 'mon means that certain Choice cleaners (looking at Galarian Darmanitan with Gorilla Tactics and a Choice item as a prime abuser) can completely bypass their designated counter with a well-timed dynamaxed coverage move when, in any other generation, it could be forced out with a counter.

It takes a huge chunk of the strategy of Pokemon and turns it into a single question: Is now the time to dynamax? And if you get that question right, you win. If you don't, you lose.

It's more balanced in Doubles by a long shot, but it's a fundamentally aggressive ability that I'd argue concentrates the strategy of pokemon into one turn that decides the match. That's not an increase in strategy.

Evolution and Z-Moves are more team-building strategy, first and foremost. They don't change the match, they're just more customization options for a given pokemon. Neither is as match-swingy as Dynamax, of course, but you can very easily justify a team without either, and they don't fundamentally decrease the amount of strategy in the game for their existence.

I'll also note that type changes from Mega evolutions can be seriously impactful, too, as someone who played a lot with Mega Pinsir. Adding flying type when Stealth Rocks exists is something you really need to be aware of.

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Okay, so there are one or two major game breaking downsides...

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Originally Posted by Emmerlaus

I suppose you don’t mean Team Rocket robots lol ! But I consider Magneton line to be machine Pokémon. They are metal type, has no mouth or nose to breath or eat and with no gender.

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Ok, thank you. :smile: