Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kaiyanwang
4th edition phane
here
3rd edition phane
here
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed to me that they considered me too dumb to play the second one.
I personally never saw it that way. I can understand why you would feel that way, and respect it. But I'm feeling talkative and am going to explain my point of view anyways :smalltongue:
When I look at the two stat blocks, I don't see the 4e version as being dumbed-down, I see the 3e version as being bloated with redundany and stuff that doesn't apply to 4e.
Taking out all the stuff that can't even be translated to 4e, you already trim it down to:
Spoiler
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Size/Type: Large Outsider (Extraplanar)
Health: 612 hp
Initiative: +11 (+7 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed: 80 ft., fly 120 ft. (perfect)
Armor Class: 50
Attack: Incorporeal +43 (1d6 plus stasis touch) melee
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, stasis touch, chronal blast, time leach, summon past time duplicate
Special Qualities: Abomination traits, null time field, time regression, fast healing 15, DR 15/epic, sonic immunity
Saves (NADs): Fort +31, Ref +29, Will +29
Abilities: Str —, Dex 25, Con 28, Int 24, Wis 16, Cha 33
Skills: Trained in Perception
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Great fortitude, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Focus (incorporeal touch), Epic Toughness (x2), Epic Will, Spell Stowaway (time stop)
Environment: Any land and underground
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 25
Treasure: None
Spell-Like-
At will—detect magic, greater invisibility (self only);
5/day—slow, greater teleport, tongues, trap the soul, true strike, unholy aura;
2/day—safe time, time duplicate (epic spell);
1/day—time stop.
Stasis Touch : As temporal stasis, except as an at-will
Chronal Blast: As a standard action, the phane can make a ranged attack against any creature within 100 feet. If it succeeds, the subject is targeted by a spasm of space-time flux, dealing 15d6 points of damage.
Time Leach: For every round of apparent time experienced by the phane, it automatically absorbs the “future” from any creature it has successfully encapsulated in static time via its stasis touch (not its null time field), no matter the distance separating victim and phane, and no matter the number of victims. Of course, to the victim no time passes at all, but each apparent round experienced by the phane ages the victim 1d4 years, at the same time healing the phane of 20 hit points of damage. A victim who is not somehow released from static time by a friend who can cast dispel magic, greater dispell magic, or some other likely spell, eventually ages to death. Victims killed in this manner automatically fall out of static time as desiccated husks that disintegrate to a fine dust with even the lightest touch.
Summon Past Time Duplicate: Once per day, a phane can summon a duplicate of one its foes stolen from a parallel alternate past. The stolen time duplicate has the same stats and possessions as the original, but is treated as if having two Energy Drains (which simulates a less experienced version of the original). The past time duplicate, despite having most of the knowledge of the original, serves the phane loyally like any summoned creature. If the past time duplicate is slain, the original is not harmed because the duplicate was pulled from a parallel past. However, the original does not necessarily realize this, and must make a Will save (DC 30) or be shaken for 1d4 rounds after witnessing the death of a duplicate for the first time.
Abomination Traits: Immune to polymorphing, petrification, and other form-altering attacks; not subject to Energy Drain; immune to mind-affecting effects; fire resistance 20; cold resistance 20; nondetection; true seeing at will; blindsight 500 ft.; telepathy out to 1,000 ft.
Null Time Field: Phanes continually generate a 30-foot-radius spread null time field. All creatures and objects in the field, except the phane, must make a Will saving throw (DC 30) each round to take any actions. On a failed save, subjects are stuck in a static time stream until their next round of actions, at which time they must make another saving throw. While a subject is stuck in a static time stream induced by a null time field, the phane can use its static touch on the subject, though in all other ways, the subject is invulnerable to attacks and damage as if in temporal stasis.
Time Regression: If the phane spends an action per round for four rounds, at the end of the 4th round the phane regresses back in time 4 rounds, to the very 1st round it originally began concentrating on time regression. On its second pass through the time stream, it can take completely different actions, based on its knowledge of the future (though if it takes different actions from its first pass through the time stream, the events of the original time stream are also changed).
Now we're on to the redundant stuff. For example, it lists Improved Initiative in two different places. It's ALREADY included in the Phane's init count, so why do we have to know it?
Cutting out utterly pointless c*** further brings the stat block to:
Spoiler
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Size/Type: Large Abomination (Extraplanar)
Health: 612 hp
Initiative: +11
Speed: 80 ft., fly 120 ft. (perfect)
Armor Class: 50
Attack: Incorporeal +43 (1d6 plus stasis touch) melee
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: See below
Special Qualities: See below, fast healing 15, DR 15/epic, sonic immunity
Saves (NADs): Fort +31, Ref +29, Will +29
Abilities: Str —, Dex 25, Con 28, Int 24, Wis 16, Cha 33
Skills: Trained in Perception
Feats: Dodge, Spell Stowaway (time stop)
Environment: Any land and underground
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 25
Treasure: None
Spell-Like-
At will—detect magic, greater invisibility (self only);
5/day—haste, slow, greater teleport, tongues, trap the soul, true strike, unholy aura;
2/day—safe time, time duplicate (epic spell);
1/day—time stop.
Stasis Touch: As temporal stasis, except as an at-will
Chronal Blast: As a standard action, the phane can make a ranged attack against any creature within 100 feet. If it succeeds, the subject is targeted by a spasm of space-time flux, dealing 15d6 points of damage.
Time Leach: For every round of apparent time experienced by the phane, it automatically absorbs the “future” from any creature it has successfully encapsulated in static time via its stasis touch (not its null time field), no matter the distance separating victim and phane, and no matter the number of victims. Of course, to the victim no time passes at all, but each apparent round experienced by the phane ages the victim 1d4 years, at the same time healing the phane of 20 hit points of damage. A victim who is not somehow released from static time by a friend who can cast dispel magic, greater dispell magic, or some other likely spell, eventually ages to death. Victims killed in this manner automatically fall out of static time as desiccated husks that disintegrate to a fine dust with even the lightest touch.
Summon Past Time Duplicate: Once per day, a phane can summon a duplicate of one its foes stolen from a parallel alternate past. The stolen time duplicate has the same stats and possessions as the original, but is treated as if having two Energy Drains (which simulates a less experienced version of the original). The past time duplicate, despite having most of the knowledge of the original, serves the phane loyally like any summoned creature. If the past time duplicate is slain, the original is not harmed because the duplicate was pulled from a parallel past. However, the original does not necessarily realize this, and must make a Will save (DC 30) or be shaken for 1d4 rounds after witnessing the death of a duplicate for the first time.
Abomination Traits: Immune to polymorphing, petrification, and other form-altering attacks; not subject to Energy Drain; immune to mind-affecting effects; fire resistance 20; cold resistance 20; nondetection; true seeing at will; blindsight 500 ft.; telepathy out to 1,000 ft.
Null Time Field: Phanes continually generate a 30-foot-radius spread null time field. All creatures and objects in the field, except the phane, must make a Will saving throw (DC 30) each round to take any actions. While a subject is stuck in a static time stream induced by a null time field, the phane can use its static touch on the subject, though in all other ways, the subject is invulnerable to attacks and damage as if in temporal stasis.
Time Regression: If the phane spends an action per round for four rounds, at the end of the 4th round the phane regresses back in time 4 rounds, to the very 1st round it originally began concentrating on time regression. On its second pass through the time stream, it can take completely different actions, based on its knowledge of the future (though if it takes different actions from its first pass through the time stream, the events of the original time stream are also changed).
Finally, let's move all the fluff out of the stat block. The fluff is still there, it simply isn't cluttering things. If you consider it "dumbing down" to simply rearrange things so that the exact same information is easier to read, there's nothing I can really say. But I, personally, think that the same amount of information being easier to read is far from "dumbing down", it's just making things more convenient. Kinda like putting the descriptions of alignment all in one place instead of in everything that references them.
So, the fluff is still all there, but simply not cluttering up the information that the DM needs to find:
Spoiler
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Size/Type: Large Abomination (Extraplanar)
Health: 612 hp
Initiative: +11
Speed: 80 ft., fly 120 ft. (perfect)
Armor Class: 50
Attack: Incorporeal +43 (1d6 plus stasis touch) melee
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: See below
Special Qualities: See below, fast healing 15, DR 15/epic, sonic immunity
Saves (NADs): Fort +31, Ref +29, Will +29
Abilities: Str —, Dex 25, Con 28, Int 24, Wis 16, Cha 33
Skills: Trained in Perception
Feats: Dodge, Blinding Speed, Spell Stowaway (time stop)
Challenge Rating: 25
Spell-Like-
At will—detect magic, greater invisibility (self only);
5/day—haste, slow, greater teleport, tongues, trap the soul, true strike, unholy aura;
2/day—safe time, time duplicate (epic spell);
1/day—time stop.
Stasis Touch: As temporal stasis, except as an at-will
Chronal Blast: As a standard action, the phane can make a ranged attack against any creature within 100 feet. If it succeeds it deals 15d6 damage.
Time Leach: Each creature hit by the Phane's Stasis Touch ages 1d4 years per round, at the same time healing the Phane for 20hp. Victims can be freed by spells such as Dispel Magic, Greater Dispel Magic, etc., and suffer the physical (but not mental) effects of aging. Victims who are not freed age to death.
Summon Past Time Duplicate: Once per day, a phane can summon a duplicate of one its foes. The stolen time duplicate has the same stats and possessions as the original, but is treated as if having two Energy Drains. The past time duplicate serves the phane loyally like any summoned creature. If the past time duplicate is slain, the original must make a DC30 Will Save or be shaken for 1d4 rounds, but is otherwise unaffected.
Abomination Traits: Immune to polymorphing, petrification, and other form-altering attacks; not subject to Energy Drain; immune to mind-affecting effects; fire resistance 20; cold resistance 20; nondetection; true seeing at will; blindsight 500 ft.; telepathy out to 1,000 ft.
Null Time Field: Phanes continually generate a 30-foot-radius spread null time field. All creatures and objects in the field, except the phane, must make a Will saving throw (DC 30) each round to take any actions. While a subject is stuck in a static time stream induced by a null time field, the phane can use its static touch on the subject, though in all other ways, the subject is invulnerable to attacks and damage as if in temporal stasis.
Time Regression: If the phane spends an action per round for four rounds, at the end of the 4th round the phane regresses back in time 4 rounds, to the very 1st round it originally began concentrating on time regression. On its second pass through the time stream, it can take completely different actions.
So, we've rearranged and trimmed down irrelevant and redundant stuff. Nothing is dumbed down: every single bit of information that can translate to 4e is still there. Every. Single. Word. So, what would a 4e stat block look like for the 3e version of this creature, using the exact same numbers where possible?
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PHANE.................Level 25 Elite Controller
Large Immortal Magical Beast
Initiative +11........Senses: Perception +44; darkvision; Blindsight
HP 612; Bloodied 306
AC 51; Fortitude 41; Reflex 39; Will 39 (Note: 4e's NADs are basically the related save +10)
Immune: mind-affecting, polymorph, petrification, thunder; Resist: insubstantial, variable 20, all 15
Saving Throws +2
Speed 10, fly 10
Action Points 1
POWERS:
Basic Attack: (standard; at-will)
*Reach 2; +43 vs. AC; 1d6 damage, and make a secondary attack
**Secondary attack: +29 vs. FORT; The target is unconscious and immune to all attacks until a Dispel Magic (or similar) ritual is used on it. The Phane heals 20hp per turn for each enemy under this effect.
*Special: Ignores Resist Incorporeal
Chronal Blast: (Standard; at-will)
*Ranged 20; +43 vs. REF; 15d6 damage
*Special: This attack does not provoke opportunity attacks
Summon Past Time Duplicate: (standard; daily) (summoning)
*The Phane summons a duplicate of one target enemy with the enemy's stats, abilities, etc. except that it has -1 to attacks and all defenses and -12 maximum hp. If the duplicate is slain, the Phane may make an attack against the original as a free action:
*+30 vs. Will; Target takes -2 to all attacks, defenses, skill checks, and ability checks for 1d4 rounds
Null Time Field: (free; at-will)
*Close Burst 6; +30 vs. Will; Target is stunned
*Special: the Phane can only use this power once per round
Time Duplicate: (free; 2/day)
*The Phane may take an extra turn after this, but skips its next turn
Time Regression:
...OK, I can't quite figure out how the HELL this power works in 3.5, much less how to translate it, so I'm skipping its translation
True Strike: (Minor; 5/day)
*The Phane's next attack gets a +20 bonus
Unholy Aura: (Standard; 5/day)
*The Phane gets a +4 bonus to all defenses
Slow: (Standard; 5/day)
*Ranged 17; +43 vs Will; target is slowed and dazed
*Effect: make this attack up to 11 more times against targets that are both within range and within 6 of the original target
Greater Invisibility: (Standard; at-will)
*The Phane becomes invisible
Time Stop: (Minor; recharge: somebody else uses Time Stop)
*As the Wizard power
Rituals:
Greater Teleport, Tongues, Detect Magic, Safe Time
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Str - ( - )......Dex 25 (+19)...Wis 16 (+15)
Con 28 (+21)...Int 24 (+19)...Cha 33 (+23)
So as you can see, the only difference is in the powers list: the 3e version's is longer, but (and this is important) the 4e excerpt version's has stuff that's both more interesting and, in large part, more complicated. Plus there's stuff on the 3e's list that, while technically translatable, would never actually be done (such as True Strike).
Edit: *grumble* stupid formatting :smallfrown: