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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
I don't know if anyone has posted it for the last 7 pages, but:
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
ChillerInstinct
While I'm certainly not about to claim Andi's in the right here, we need to remember the circumstances before we pass judgement.
This was, up until the past day or two, supposed to be a simple one-stop transportation detail. This is now the second time in a couple of days that the Mechane has been in very real danger of being brought down (not including the Tarquin fight a couple weeks prior, but that was Julio's call, so I'm not counting it).
Perhaps most importantly, their crewmates have died, which (to my memory, anyway) has not happened on-screen before. Being badass lovable rogues is, surprisingly, a relatively low-risk job as far as fantasy tropes go. At worst, you have a close shave, lose the loot, MAYBE have to leave loved ones behind. Going from charming cartoon pirates to having your friends literally bisected is... a jarring shift, to say the least. Judging by how stunned Bandana, Andi, and the pilot were when it happened, I think it's reasonable to say this doesn't happen a whole lot. They went to bed last night in the 60's Batman show and woke up in The Dark Knight, basically.
And for what? What they consider to be a Once-An-Episode Generic Doomsday Plot? For 200 gp per person?
Under the circumstances, I don't think Andi's actions are unreasonable. Poorly thought through, no question. But I think, if most of us were in her most likely neutral, not particularly high-level, horrific odds-facing shoes, we'd probably be having second thoughts. Assuming we're thinking reasonably at all and not being in full flight-or-fight mode.
Perfectly put. Kudos.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Braininthejar2
I don't know if anyone has posted it for the last 7 pages, but:
+1 untyped Internet bonus to you.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Braininthejar2
I don't know if anyone has posted it for the last 7 pages, but:
But Bandana didn't tell her how to do her job (pretty explicitly, in fact; see "or something"); she told her to do her job at all. There's a fine distinction there. :smallwink:
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
At this point, I'm hoping one of the giants will decide to kill the captain, and the crew all point at the crazy woman with the wrench.
I can't imagine too many of them will be comfortable working with Andi after this.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Tvtyrant
Thanks. I know I am in the minority for distinguishing between soft targets such as pirates usually go after abd suicide missions against frost giants, so I appreciate the insult.
Imagine you got a job at Wallmart, and your boss quiy and made one of your fellow employees the new boss. Then they informed you your job is now going to be to drive a car for a decent amount of money delivering pizza. You agree, due largely to your loyalty to the original boss. Then several of you get shot and you find out you are delivering cocaine, but your boss refuses to let you quit despite you having agreed to a totally different job under a different leader.
That is the scenario we are in now, and my vomment was directed at a person calling for the deaths of the crew for finally driving away from the cocaine drop zone rather than die.
This is a poor analogy.
The crew openly admits they are used to dealing with the apocalypse of the week. They are not this setting's Wal*Mart employees. They know the risks and perils of the job. They know that deadly force can come at them at any time. They got paid a large amount of gold each for taking on this mission. Nobody except for Andromeda and you are objecting to it, and Andi is clearly being painted as in the wrong.
The only applicable part of your analogy is that a new manager is telling her workers what to do, and that new manager's orders are likely what the old manager would have ordered as well.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Being a key component to Julio's escape plan, after yet another crashed wedding, yeah, I see how that is totally safe. It is not like Tarquin is one to hold a grudge, or take out his frustration on bystanders who may not be to blame.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Peelee
What a terrible analogy.
The crew openly admits they are used to dealing with the apocalypse of the week. They are not this setting's Wal*Mart employees. They know the risks and perils of the job. They know that deadly force can come at them at any time. They got paid a large amount of gold each got taking on this mission. Nobody except for Andromeda and you are objecting to it, and Andi is clearly being painted as in the wrong.
The only applicable part of your analogy is that a new manager is telling her workers what to do, and that new manager's orders are likely what the old manager would have ordered as well.
Who knows? The new manager has only been manager for 5 minutes.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
...or like Julio casually mentioned making a habit of crashing Tarquin's weddings and rescuing the bride-to-be...or like there's this story in Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales...or like the pirates explicitly said that the problem was that they weren't getting paid, not that what they were doing was especially dangerous, and brought up Julio often "playing hero" but always finding a way to get paid (except for Andi, who seems eager to declare an ever-shifting list of things the problem, with the only commonality being that Bandana and the people she's helping are wrong--and even there, she didn't say "this is dangerous and what we usually do is safe"; she said "this isn't piracy!").
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
8BitNinja
Who knows? The new manager has only been manager for 5 minutes.
Julios final order was to take them wherever they wanted to go, Bandana is both following Julios order and making sure the crew makes a profit off it
Quote:
"this isn't piracy!"
maybe the mechane can loot the town while Roy is heading to the clan meet
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
ChillerInstinct
And for what? What they consider to be a Once-An-Episode Generic Doomsday Plot? For 200 gp per person?
If some guy with a huge sword, who claims to be a hero, who says he's on a mission to save the world, immediately agrees to give you and every single one of your buddies enough money to live royally for a month (or moderately for four months, or frugally for sixteen months) without even blinking at the cost....Well, you're either dealing with an adventurer or a madman. Possibly both.
Either of which are liable to be danger magnets.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Maybe going off course will take them to Tunnelsburg which will turn out to be Durkon's hometown.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Forikroder
maybe the mechane can loot the town while Roy is heading to the clan meet
That's not very heroic. Unless you are talking about the Ancient Greeks. In that case, it probably is.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Jasdoif
You say that like frustration is a valid reason to excuse hitting people.
I seem to recall Rich addressing this once, obliquely.
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Originally Posted by
The Giant
You reveal who you really are under stress—stress doesn't magically turn you into someone else unrelated to who you usually are. The fact that you may not have ever known that this is who you were doesn't change anything.
Now one can argue the point (and indeed it was quite streneously until that thread was locked), but it does appear that "I was totally stressed, I didn't mean to do it" isn't exactly a Get Out Of Jail Free option in this comic.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
For that matter, Andi is quick to take advantage of it. She didn't exactly plan it, but she doesn't seem to regret it either.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Disregarding the obvious discussion of the possible change in management and whether or not there are X-es in the eyes behind that railing, can I just say that some of these backgrounds are phenomenal? They manage to be smooth and simple but still convey a lot of detail, and the softness of the objects in the background is a nice touch.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Kish
For that matter, Andi is quick to take advantage of it. She didn't exactly plan it, but she doesn't seem to regret it either.
She's clearly shocked by what she's just done, and she didn't call herself captain, the helmsman did. I think there's a good chance that, if things work out well for the Mechane, Andi will rationalize what she's done and ultimately she won't regret it*, but three panels after the deed it's entirely too soon to make that claim.
*Of course, it's more likely that things will go south and that Andi will come regret it, like, a lot, but for the sake of the argument.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Gift Jeraff
Maybe going off course will take them to
Tunnelsburg which will turn out to be Durkon's hometown.
I'm hoping it is a turn into Nottinstory myself.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
...really, Andi? :smallmad:
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
I might be in the minority, but I'm absolutely with Andi on this one. Bandana has shown herself to be an incredibly poor leader who has not earned the respect of her peers. Rather than earn it through any skill, she throws an almost childish temper tantrum and demands people call her "Captain" when they don't.
It's been stated earlier, but Andi has also just watched a number of her friends die quite gruesomely, all for something she doesn't consider worth it. Judging from the reactions, I'm pretty sure she never had to deal with this under Julio.
I think a lot of people who support Bandana really give her a pass for some reason or other. She's known to care less for her leaders as she does for herself and the "authority" she has at being the Captain.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Matt620
I might be in the minority, but I'm absolutely with Andi on this one. Bandana has shown herself to be an incredibly poor leader who has not earned the respect of her peers. Rather than earn it through any skill, she throws an almost childish temper tantrum and demands people call her "Captain" when they don't.
Can you link to the childish tantrum where she demands people call her Captain?
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Peelee
Can you link to the childish tantrum where she demands people call her Captain?
Start with this one:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0988.html
Panel 3.
There's more, if you want to look.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Matt620
now wheres the childish tantrum?
all i see is her expecting to be adressed with proper respect
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Matt620
I see no childish tantrum. I see her reminding someone who is being openly insubordinate that she's the captain.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Matt620
You better bring out this "more" you speak of, since that is clearly insubordination on Andi's part, and a reasonable response from the captain of the ship.
It certainly is not childish, despite your claim. Every ship has a captain. Every ship, in fact, MUST have a captain. Failure to recognise the captain is a major issue.
In fact, if B can be said to have made a mistake, it is to not have been harsher with Andi. The idea that she could've defused this is laughable: she clearly tried, and Andi refused to accept any of the compromises. Easiest test: If Julio had still been in command taking the Order to where they needed to go (as he clearly was in favour of doing), would Andi have been happier about the situation? If yes, then she's a hypocrite and she is in the wrong. If not, she is a mutinous crewmember, and she is in the wrong.
Grey Wolf
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
If you look at it from Andi's point of view--exactly Andi's point of view, in which the fact that Julio left Bandana in charge is irrelevant and she should be deferring to Andi--then Andi's point of view makes sense. Tautology.
(Also, the Ogre-Witch of Rupture Ravine totally sounds like a soft target. Probably the captain of a defenseless merchant ship.)
(If I was new to this forum, I would think having Andi say "You stubborn little brat, why won't you ever just do what I tell you to do?!?" was selling Andi being thoroughly in the wrong here way too hard. As it is, I'm surprised the arguments that Andi is in the right took as long to show up as they did.)
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
Kish
If you look at it from Andi's point of view--exactly Andi's point of view, in which the fact that Julio left Bandana in charge is irrelevant and she should be deferring to Andi--then Andi's point of view makes sense. Tautology.
(Also, the Ogre-Witch of Rupture Ravine totally sounds like a soft target. Probably the captain of a defenseless merchant ship.)
(If I was new to this forum, I would think having Andi say "You stubborn little brat, why won't you ever just do what I tell you to do?!?" was selling Andi being thoroughly in the wrong here way too hard. As it is, I'm surprised the arguments that Andi is in the right took as long to show up as they did.)
trolls usually sit back at first and see how the argument is going to settle before they start casting bait
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Too bad Bandana for hit with a wrench. She made a really good roast.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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Originally Posted by
JumboWheat01
You mean it isn't?
Crap... I'll have to tell my Elder Scrolls players to stop killing the Annoying Fan.
I played LoL with my son this weekend: we made it a point to target Teemo ... for all of the cliche reasons and because it avoids a fed Teemo in the best possible way.
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Well, at least we can avoid that mutiny in the forum if there wasn't going to be a mutiny in the comic.
I, for one, find both Bandana and Andromeda to be believably flawed characters. The tension between them has now turned into tension over the future of the Mechane, which is playing out at the same time we were originally just worrying about a pair of frost giants and hurled boulders. Andi believes by changing direction the latter threat may be mitigated for long enough to deal with their boarders, but the question will remain as to whether or not there isn't something worse off the pass (or at its end) and if the crew is united enough to face it. Well done, Giant.