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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Wanda going on the merc work wouldn't have to be against orders; it would be a lot more efficient for her to be with Jillian's merc team than for Jillian to send the bodies of her fallen enemies back to FAQ and then back, especially since uncroaked decay.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kreszantas
Also here ("Get Wanda ready"). By your logic he should have contacted Wanda by eyebook because Maggie would have been busy contacting the knights.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fendrin
Also
here ("Get Wanda ready"). By your logic he should have contacted Wanda by eyebook because Maggie would have been busy contacting the knights.
Again more behind the panels stuff suited to 'Natural Thinkamancy'... same can be said for http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0083.html when Stanley recalls the dwagons. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0081.html gives the single order to Mung and the rest are in paint in the same 83, does it show Mung going to each KISS to get ready? No, but there they are.
My point is we really do not know where the "Natural" vs needing to use a thinkamancer line is. We both have valid points holding up our ends of the discussion. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0094.html being the basis for mine.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vreejack
Is the archon that Ansom is dealing with a real one? The undead archon seems to have disappeared, and the placement of this one is suspicious. Is Maggy working some suggestion on Ansom's dented cranium to make him think he is treating with Charlie? With Sir Webinar coming on the back of a flying abomination to capture him and a very suspicious contract occupying his attention he may not be looking too closely at the archon.
Much as I love this idea I don't think it's possible. If you look at panel 3 on page 64 Parson says to Sizemore 'And we can't cast on the enemy's turn'. To me this says that Maggie can't be messing with Ansom's mind and perceptions right now because it's RCC's turn not GK's.
Edit: Because sometimes I can't type for boop.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ghost81
Much as I love this idea I don't think it's possible. If you look at panel 3 on
page 64 Parson says to Sizemore '
And we can't cast on the enemy's turn'. To me this says that Maggie can't be messing with Ansom's mind and perceptions right now because it's RCC's turn not GK's.
I'm pretty sure that statement, while probably accurate as a quote, isnt accurate regarding all magic in erfworld. If nothing else we know that prepared defenses and thinkamancy can be used during an opponents turn...
I think the archon offering terms is Charlie's not the uncroaked one though because:
a) Jack hasnt returned to GK yet (no stanley or dwagon laying the smackdown or screwing up Parson's orders)
b) Wanda is the only caster who might be able to do foolamancy and most of her power was used to raise the low level uncroaked army. Giving Wanda additional Foolamancy powers at this point seems unnessasarily complicated and is a tad unbelievable no matter how much of an uber-caster she is.
Also, i wouldnt put it past Charlie to gamble on Ansom's desperation and put a stupidly high price into this agreement, even one that might be refused. If Ansom accepts Charlie gets whatever his little stone cold gold heart desires. If Ansom refuses... well.. Parson gets more playtime to show how awesome he can be and he's close to suceeding in doing exactly what he told Charlie he would.
Whatever is in that contract is BIG, getting involved for the usual smuckers would be a waste of time for Charlie.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Well we now know it's a real Archon due to this post.
Still want to know what all the small print of the offer is though - guess we'll find out soon enough.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kreszantas
Stanley gave the order to the guard (I don't think it's Mung) to "Gather at dawn". That gives the guard plenty of time to go to each knight individually, if needed. Rule of parsimony favors the guard not doing so through thinkamancy, natural or otherwise.
Stanley gives tells Maggie (or more accurately the link gestalt) to give the recall order to "all field units", including the dwagons. No Natural Thinkamancy involved.
As for that klog, it says obeying the Tool's orders is Natural thinkamancy. Two points: obeying not receiving, and the Tool's orders, not all orders.
The only 'natural thinkamancy' communication we know of is scouting reports, as mentioned in that klog. It stands to reason that there may be others, but we shouldn't assume so.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by fendrin
"You know nothing of the underpinnings of this spell!"
Er, that is, Wanda was not communicating. It was a fire-and-forget spell.
I thought she gave new suggestions after Jillian was already out in the field, such as "ditch your stack", or "go save Ansom"; I don't see how Wanda could have planned for Parson's gambit. If Wanda did give new suggestions after Jillian left we have a form of really bad communication.
You may be right that all the suggestions were already in place, although I would find that difficult to do, but I'm not Parson+Sizemore+Wanda.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ghost81
Still want to know what all the small print of the offer is though - guess we'll find out soon enough.
It may be an offer Jetstone can not accept.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
teratorn
It may be an offer Jetstone can not accept.
I doubt that; if Charlie doesn't want to make a deal, he could simply ignore Ansom's call. (In the previous case, he couldn't just openly blow off Translyvito without damaging his reputation -- by making "an offer they can't accept" he at least diffuses the perceived responsibility for the alliance-shift exploit falling through.)
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Same applies here. Charlie wouldn't be a proper merc if he wouldn't make an offer/ And given the wealth of Jetstone, a literal offer he can't accept would be hard
My guess? It's an obscene price hike. That way, no matter what happens now, Charlie wins.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
teratorn
It may be an offer Jetstone can not accept.
What would be the profit in that?
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Just a thought: it maybe be an offer that Ansom could not, in good conscience, accept. That is, it may be an offer that would not be ruinous to Jetstone, but that would be worth more to the side than Ansom would be. Say, if Ansom were worth 500,000 schmuckers to Jetstone, and Charlie wanted 750,000 schmuckers. In that case, Ansom could either save himself-which would, overall, be bad for his side-or refuse the offer. It seems like he'd prefer to die nobly, what with his noblesse oblige (sp?), than harm his side. This, in essence would be the perfect opportunity for him to do so. He can die his heroic death, maximizing his overall value to the side...or he can save himself (which would likely lead to considerable and valuable character development in his future).
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Presumably Charlie's help won't be limited solely to rescuing Ansom but will also include Charlie's support for the siege--under very specific conditions, of course.
Ansom and RCC are facing a dire situation serious trouble. Charlie's likely smart enough to figure out a way to profit from it. Demanding a prohibitively high price gets him nothing.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Hey will those archons even be able to save Ansom? They can't land and he can't fly, so I assume airlift is out. Wanda was able to take his blows before the pliers changed hands, if the Archons can't hit Wanda, Ansom's probably a gonner...
Perhaps he'll get enough time to coup-de-grace himself, and avoid becoming GK's new high level warlord. (They can tie him to a banner and carry him around if need be.)
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lamech
(They can tie him to a banner and carry him around if need be.)
I like it, make it canon.
Though in all honesty, I think that what'll happen is that Ansom will haphazardly accept Charlie's offer without reading the terms and survive. There's no proof I can point to for why that is so. It's simply that this isn't the "right" place in the story arc for him to die.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Maxymiuk
It's simply that this isn't the "right" place in the story arc for him to die.
Who says he's going to die even if he doesn't accept the agreement? Wanda's explicit order was to capture, not kill.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SteveMB
I doubt that; if Charlie doesn't want to make a deal, he could simply ignore Ansom's call.
He can't. Charlie needed an excuse to stay in GK's space, so probably he made an offer to Jetstone (probably the same 250,000 schmuckers he had asked TV). But it's in his best interest that RCC doesn't win the battle. He can't be sure Parson and his artifact won't get damaged.
Unless Jetstone offers him a price comparable to the mathamancy artifact. We're talking about 500,000 schmuckers for one turn!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lamech
Hey will those archons even be able to save Ansom? They can't land and he can't fly, so I assume airlift is out.
He jumps the wall, into the net they were carrying.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lamech
I thought she gave new suggestions after Jillian was already out in the field, such as "ditch your stack", or "go save Ansom"; I don't see how Wanda could have planned for Parson's gambit. If Wanda did give new suggestions after Jillian left we have a form of really bad communication.
You may be right that all the suggestions were already in place, although I would find that difficult to do, but I'm not Parson+Sizemore+Wanda.
Ah, I have a totally different understanding of the spell. As I understand it, it wasn't a set of instructions but rather an influence of Jillian's decision-making. Every time she had to make a decision, she was influenced (not forced, though) to decide in whatever way was best for Wanda.
To put it another way, the spell magnified the biases that people have to help and protect the ones they love. That's why Wanda was so incensed when she told Sizemore that he didn't understand the underpinnings of the spell; the underpinnings were Jillian's feelings for Wanda, which by questioning the spell, the others were inadvertently dismissing.
Then again, I'm the guy who claimed that there never was a spell and it was just Wanda's cover story. :smallwink:
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fendrin
Ah, I have a totally different understanding of the spell. As I understand it, it wasn't a set of instructions but rather an influence of Jillian's decision-making. Every time she had to make a decision, she was influenced (not forced, though) to decide in whatever way was best for Wanda.
Don't forget what Wanda said, that Jill wouldn't attack the dwagons because Jillian knew how important they were for Wanda's (and GK's) survival. She didn't say "she won't attack because I told her not to" or anything else suggesting "direct" orders or even "direct" suggestions.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MattR
I'm pretty sure that statement, while probably accurate as a quote, isnt accurate regarding all magic in erfworld. If nothing else we know that prepared defenses and thinkamancy can be used during an opponents turn...
I think the archon offering terms is Charlie's not the uncroaked one though because:
a) Jack hasnt returned to GK yet (no stanley or dwagon laying the smackdown or screwing up Parson's orders)
b) Wanda is the only caster who might be able to do foolamancy and most of her power was used to raise the low level uncroaked army. Giving Wanda additional Foolamancy powers at this point seems unnessasarily complicated and is a tad unbelievable no matter how much of an uber-caster she is.
Also, i wouldnt put it past Charlie to gamble on Ansom's desperation and put a stupidly high price into this agreement, even one that might be refused. If Ansom accepts Charlie gets whatever his little stone cold gold heart desires. If Ansom refuses... well.. Parson gets more playtime to show how awesome he can be and he's close to suceeding in doing exactly what he told Charlie he would.
Whatever is in that contract is BIG, getting involved for the usual smuckers would be a waste of time for Charlie.
I agree your pretty much dead on with this post, and to add to it there is going be conditions for at least Parson, and possibly the casters depending on if she attunes or not. So he may just lump them together as the property of Charlescomm is all casters must be captured alive. Maggie is the only duplicated unit Charlie could let her go out of the deal and rest be extremely useful with way that Parson uses them. Charlie has had his Archons give him NFL panaramic telecast of this fight so he knows whats going on.. think of blimp style aerials of the game.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by fendrin
Ah, I have a totally different understanding of the spell. As I understand it, it wasn't a set of instructions but rather an influence of Jillian's decision-making. Every time she had to make a decision, she was influenced (not forced, though) to decide in whatever way was best for Wanda.
To put it another way, the spell magnified the biases that people have to help and protect the ones they love. That's why Wanda was so incensed when she told Sizemore that he didn't understand the underpinnings of the spell; the underpinnings were Jillian's feelings for Wanda, which by questioning the spell, the others were inadvertently dismissing.
Then again, I'm the guy who claimed that there never was a spell and it was just Wanda's cover story.
Yeah... well then... your explaination makes more sense. Well, I guess that is how debates are won.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lamech
Yeah... well then... your explaination makes more sense. Well, I guess that is how debates are won.
I... won...
I won a debate on the internet?
Is it even possible to win a debate on the internet???
:smallamused:
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kreszantas
Your going to have to back that statement up with a specific fact. ...
The reason Parson's using Maggie to communicate, send orders, etc. is because the Eyebooks have been hacked, remember? Eyebooks can't tell you that they are currently being observed. Maggie, as an experienced Thinkamancer, should be able to tell that her Thinkagrams/whatever are being observed, unless those Archons outside/Charlie can read lips.
From this basic premise, the fact that Parson is talking to Maggie when he's talking about strategy/orders/etc makes perfect In-Character sense. We even see him talking to Jack and Sizemore through a Thinkagram, and out-of-screen, tells Maggie to tell Wanda to get ready. Why be inconsistent now?
To seal the argument, in panel 6 of today's comic, Parson tells Maggie to tell Wanda that she has new orders, with Maggie doing the hands-to-temples pose. In panels 1, 3, and 4, she is not. Parson only uses the Eyebooks to talk to Charlie. The Eyebooks are hacked, therefore unreliable for inter-GK use. QED.
What's the resolution/bitrate on Thinkagrams? Can they be upgraded to HD? Does Charlie get the ArkenDish Network? XD
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BarGamer
The reason Parson's using Maggie to communicate, send orders, etc. is because
the Eyebooks have been hacked, remember?
Eyebooks can't tell you that they are currently being observed. Maggie, as an experienced Thinkamancer, should be able to tell that her Thinkagrams/whatever are being observed, unless those Archons outside/Charlie can read lips.
What's the resolution/bitrate on Thinkagrams? Can they be upgraded to HD? Does Charlie get the ArkenDish Network? XD
Charlie probably runs the ArkenDish Network. It could easily be in his power to give one side or group of sides perfect thinkamantic communications(comparable to Eyebooks issued to every single unit) for an outrageous price.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BarGamer
The reason Parson's using Maggie to communicate, send orders, etc. is because
the Eyebooks have been hacked, remember? Eyebooks can't tell you that they are currently being observed. Maggie, as an experienced Thinkamancer, should be able to tell that her Thinkagrams/whatever are being observed, unless those Archons outside/Charlie can read lips.
From this basic premise, the fact that Parson is talking to Maggie when he's talking about strategy/orders/etc makes perfect In-Character sense. We even see him talking to Jack and
Sizemore through a Thinkagram, and out-of-screen, tells Maggie to tell Wanda to get ready. Why be inconsistent now?
To seal the argument, in panel 6 of today's comic, Parson tells Maggie to tell Wanda that she has new orders, with Maggie doing the hands-to-temples pose. In panels 1, 3, and 4, she is not. Parson only uses the Eyebooks to talk to Charlie. The Eyebooks are hacked, therefore unreliable for inter-GK use. QED.
What's the resolution/bitrate on Thinkagrams? Can they be upgraded to HD? Does Charlie get the ArkenDish Network? XD
This is not the point Fendrin and I were discussing, we were trying to determine what and when orders are issued by anyone Parson's rank (Chief Warlord) and lower could be done by Natural Thinkmanacy (off panel orders) or if they all had to use either the Eyebook OR Maggie (or a combination of both). We know that Tool can do this without an eyebook by him contacting Maggie "his thinkamancer" in that same attempt of getting Jack fixed. Next time know what the debate is before you attempt to QED something.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Oh, sorry. My bad. Next time I won't skim QUITE so fast when reading several pages of the thread. ^^;
Er... I think it's Natural Thinkamancy to Maggie, for what my vote is worth.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Completly unrelated question: Did we ever find out what the city was producing? Because there might be more troops next turn.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
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Originally Posted by
Reath
Completly unrelated question: Did we ever find out what the city was producing? Because there might be more troops next turn.
Given that the Gobwin Fighters are listed as mostly level one, I think we have a suspect. The Spidew are mostly low level as well.
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Re: 133 The Battle For Gobwin Knob, Page 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whispri
Given that the Gobwin Fighters are listed as mostly level one, I think we have a suspect. The Spidew are mostly low level as well.
Given Stanley's origins and emphasis on leveling his uncroaked warlords, it makes sense to me that he would pop weak units with the idea that they would get more powerful over time.
On the other hand, I think that if he is able to*, he would be constantly popping dwagons, which are clearly his favorite unit type.
*This is, of course intrinsically linked to the debate on what it means to 'tame' dwagons.