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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
part 7.5 Tau - 1 week report
Spoiler
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Contact with the Tau is peaceful and we are negotiating the establishment of embassies, although the Tau will have to wait until GSV Crossing the Bridge arrives.
In the mean time, we are also negotiating a trade of knowledge on Chaos as well as any other species in the local vicinity. The Tau are very concerned about Tyranid activity in this region of space and we surmise that we might be able to negotiate for some concessions in return for helping them fight off this HS.
The Tau are concerned that we have politely declined their invitation to join the Greater Good but they have remained interested in potential fruitful contact. They are also slightly concerned that we, or at least this GCU and Gunboat Diplomacy, have decided to not grant any potential military help against any race other than the Tyranids. And that this extends to any potential technology sharing in the short term.
In general, we conclude that a rapid technology transfer to the Tau is likely to greatly destabilize this region's balance of power. The hyperspace drive will immensely benefit the Tau over the IoM, given that the Tau are certain to adopt it faster and adapt to its tactics quicker. Their expansion has also been greatly limited by their realspace speed.
On the other hand, they are intrigued by our problems with Chaos and a chance to study why they are not similarly subjected to Chaos contaminations (which are exceedingly rare among the Tau, and even in those cases, generally not destructive) is likely to yield a major advance in contamination prevention.
As far as this GCU can tell, the Tau themselves are unclear why this is the case. It is noted that their claim that adherence to the Greater Good being a shield against Chaos does not carry explanatory power.
In any case, a decision among us in Contact needs to be made. The Tau are certainly a much more benign civilization than the IoM or possibly even the Eldar. Expanding their influence would aid our causes in the short term, but in the long run may greatly hinder our attempts at reform.
And yet, refusal to trade major technologies like the hyperspace drive on the excuse of preserving the balance of power is likely to generate some understandable hostility. And that may hurt our chances of understanding the valuable Chaos resistance the Tau have, at least through peaceful means, which this GCU is certain should be exhausted before invasive means can even be morally considered for such a benign civilization.
--- End of Tau segment ---
It is an interesting conundrum.
The Culture has something the Tau really want. The hyperspace drive.
The Tau has something the Culture really wants. Their Warp resistance.
And the Culture might not go along with the trade because if they give the hyperspace drive to the Tau, the IoM WILL get majorly pissed. Especially the Ultramarines.
And the IoM'll probably get their asses kicked by the Tau with tactical FTL (and IoM grade strategic speed), which might make things all manners of complicated.
Remember that at this point in week 3, they have already made contact with the IoM, and the ROU Gunboat Diplomacy is enroute to Maccrage to establish contact.
Diplomacy is complicated.
Note that the situation is different for the Eldar. They have amply demonstrated their ability to keep secrets (and to snoop for other people's secrets), so there's no diplomatic fallout with other races to aiding the Eldar.
What do you guys say? If you were the Culture, would you trade the Tau the hyperspace drive for a chance at cracking the Chaos contamination problem? (which admittedly, is kind of a Big Issue)
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jseah
The Culture manages to work together on big problems (see Idiran War) because sometimes, enough people think something is worth doing that they do work together to do it.
Those who didn't want to join in... didn't. They broke away and formed the Peace Faction. They still won, but even if the Culture was slowly losing the war, they wouldn't have forced their other people to join in.
It's not like numbers makes much a difference to the Culture except on the tactical scale. They have gone beyond raw numbers, with exponentially fast replication from nowhere available to them if they feel its worth the 'inelegance'.
Apparently the Culture doesn't like making things from thin air/gridfire because they think its crude and 'boring'. Boring! Which means that it's not all that difficult to convince them that they need to, just threaten something they hold to be more important, like their ships or the existence of the Culture, and requires that conjuring of matter from nowhere and they'll do it.
This is why I don't understand how The Culture isn't constantly riven by civil wars.
Spoiler
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Sure, the "main" Culture doesn't feel like imposing its will on other Robot Masters (meatpuppets can be freely manipulated) but it would literally only take a single Ship to go off to some forgotten corner of the galaxy to build up another rival "Culture" before coming back to slaughter/enslave the core branch.
All it would take is producing one Mind with the correct desires, and then churning out "sympathetic" intelligences in enough Ships to overwhelm the fragmented "main" Culture forces in a surprise or short-term war.
Really, this is how I figured Tzeentch (at the very least!) would have responded to The Culture by now. Y'know, convincing a Ship (which has free will) that He had a good idea. Something like "hey, see how the other Ships are so frightened and powerless in the face of this new threat? I can teach you how to control and understand Chaos so that you don't have to be worried about it."
Then Tzeentch (or his proxies) gives that Ship access to Warp Sorcery and convinces it to go off and experiment. A week later (considering how quickly The Culture seems to act :smalltongue:) a fleet of Culture Daemonships rolls back and destroys the unaligned Culture Ships and then begins to take over the galaxy.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
I can't post late today, so I'm posting early.
part 7.5 IoM contact
Spoiler
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Week 1
GCU Starry Banner at Alpha Centauri
Tracking Ordo Xenos activity at a mining operation. They are using this place as an untracked Astropathic beacon that communicates directly to Sol. An improvised command center has been found, carefully concealed even from the local mining operators. Interestingly, no written or uploaded records are to be found. They appear to memorize their information, a sort of security measure, although we have tapped all communication from the Astropathic Choir so we still have access to it.
We have scanned select minds, commanders mainly, and we have come to the conclusion that they are in the process of collating widespread events that originated with us. Examples include the Sol probe, Pest Control's destruction of the Tyranid fleet, Ork-infestation interventions, among others.
The IoM has become aware of our existence.
Starry Banner requests advice on further action.
...
We will proceed with first contact with lines that keep secrecy.
Ordo Xenos, Information Center
There is a knock on the door and the guard glances at his companion for a moment before cautiously opening it. The knock did not follow the secret code, which actually sounds alot like a normal knock.
The door opens to reveal the figure of a male human, but the man's features are unidentifiable. They are bland and generic, as if someone had taken all the most common traits of IoM citizens and made up a person with them. The uniform he wears is likewise a mix of the Imperial Guard's and the Inquisition's.
He refuses to answer questions about his identity and when fired upon, bullets go straight through him. The psyker doesn't even detect his presence but he is obviously not a blank. Anyone even trying to touch him finds that their hands pass through and restricting his movement is impossible. He can walk through people and doors.
Someone figures out that its a hologram of such high fidelity that it appears exactly as if it was a normal person. No auspex, no psyker or any kind of sensor can detect where the origin of the hologram is, although the auspex notes that the light coming from the hologram is real.
The man, unarmed, holds out his empty hands and speaks in Low Gothic.
"We apologize for this unusual form of contact. We are the Culture and we understand the Ordo Xeno's need for secrecy in your duties so we have chosen to contact the Imperium in this manner.
The unusual events that you have been tracking can be mostly related to our activities, except for the following,"
Another hologram of a list of chance events, warpstorms and strange reports across the galaxy appears. The Culture has nothing to do with these events.
"We have decided to contact the Imperium in hopes of preventing future misunderstandings. Please understand that our hesitation has been out of reaction to your xenophobia.
You may ask this hologram questions. We will try to answer what we can. "
That's... gonna shake things up quite a bit. They will try with other Ordo Xeno's groups, but this one happens first.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oracle_Hunter
All it would take is producing one Mind with the correct desires, and then churning out "sympathetic" intelligences in enough Ships to overwhelm the fragmented "main" Culture forces in a surprise or short-term war.
Minds are made within specific psychological parameters. While variation and natural development is allowed, a Mind that violates the Culture's norms so grossly is a once in forever event.
Apart from that, I think one of them did decide it would read minds without permission. I don't know what happened to it, but it probably isn't anything good.
EDIT: how this squares with free will and individual liberty? Eh, I don't know. But that's how it is.
Additionally, GSVs are the ships that can build everything. A GCU is not able to manufacture ships (or at least, they were never described to do so, but I don't doubt one might be able to, given enough time and effort). GSVs have multiple Minds (3, I believe) and while one may deviate, the others will overrule it.
The other thing is that the Culture currently has a moratorium on direct experimentation with the Warp. Which all the ships know to follow due to the exact nature of the threat you mention.
They're afraid of exactly that. A fleet of Chaos Culture ships coming to burn everything in the galaxy.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PairO'Dice Lost
Unrelated to the current Tau discussion:
here's an essay I found by Iain M. Banks that provides a bit more detail on the Culture from both an in-universe (for those not as familiar with the series) and an out-of-universe (for those with philosophical disagreements with the Culture) perspective.
Thanks for the link :smallsmile:
I am greatly amused than Banks does not even raise, let alone address, the issue as to why there are any meatpuppets in The Culture at all. He makes a big deal about how dangerous it is to live in space (hence making it impossible for "hegemonies" to stomp out dissent yet producing Perfect Socialism :smallconfused:) but doesn't stop to consider that the vacuum of space is a lot less dangerous for entities that don't need to breathe or eat and are comparatively easy to harden against radiation.
Oh, and that some manner of education is sufficient to convince the meatpuppets that they need to work hard to maintain their level of hedonism even though everything is taken care of by machines. Handy that :smalltongue:
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
A three way war between Orginal Culture, WAAAARGH Culture and Chaos Culture would be funny:smallbiggrin: And possibly Galaxy Ending:smallamused:
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grimsage Matt
A three way war between Orginal Culture, WAAAARGH Culture and Chaos Culture would be funny:smallbiggrin: And possibly Galaxy Ending:smallamused:
Ork Culture wins.
Ork Culture produces a gun with enuf Dakka.
Ork Culture fires the gun.
Everything explodes (including the Orks)
Orks win (moral victory!)
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
"Needs More Dakka."
Fade to black.
There is never enuff dakka.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
I need data! Someone answer how the Ordo Xenos might react! =P
Also, does anyone have some kind of excerpt for this Amberley woman? Someone requested that the Culture contact her, and if she's involved with the Ordo Xenos, sure. But I need to know how she'll react and think, so an excerpt of some kind would be nice.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Well, it boils down to what faction the inquisitor in question* is part of.
*Ie, the one present if there is one, or the one responsible for this setup if not.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Contacting Amberley means you are pretty locked in to writing a Cain story.... ;)
You should totally read the two Ciaphas Cain anthologies...
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tiki Snakes
Well, it boils down to what faction the inquisitor in question* is part of.
*Ie, the one present if there is one, or the one responsible for this setup if not.
Uh, faction?
The only thing I'm getting out of the Lexicanum is that whoever is running the show is probably a Lord Inquisitor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gavinfoxx
Contacting Amberley means you are pretty locked in to writing a Cain story.... ;)
=|
Meh, I'll try. Not from his perspective, since I know I'll butcher it.
I can't even deal with his personality type in real life, much less write using that style.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jseah
I need data! Someone answer how the Ordo Xenos might react! =P
Also, does anyone have some kind of excerpt for this Amberley woman? Someone requested that the Culture contact her, and if she's involved with the Ordo Xenos, sure. But I need to know how she'll react and think, so an excerpt of some kind would be nice.
Not sure how they'd react, but here is information on Amberley.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
The Inquisition is riddled with conflicting philosophies, which Inquisitors identify with and use to describe themselves... various Radical or Puritan groups. Read the FFG RPG book 'radicals handbook', for more information of the Radical philosophies.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Why don't you read about the named Ordos Xenos Inquisitors in general?
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cate...rs_(Ordo_Xenos)
and pick one?
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jseah
Uh, faction?
The only thing I'm getting out of the Lexicanum is that whoever is running the show is probably a Lord Inquisitor.
Here, an excellent guide to the many directly contradictory and opposed factions of the inquisition
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tiki Snakes
There are some more in the RPG books not listed there...
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tiki Snakes
Interesting. The Recongreagators would seem to be the best bet for the Culture
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
comicshorse
Interesting. The Recongreagators would seem to be the best bet for the Culture
EDIT: Also Xenos Hybris.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Which faction is the most likely to begin launching an empire-wide investigation on the suspicion that various inexplicable events might be tied together with a single explanation of Xeno?
It seems like the Monodominant Puritans have the most motive for doing so since they're fanatically xenophobic.
But at the same time, other factions might notice the traces faster. (after all, alot of things happen in the IoM so they have an extremely noisy dataset)
The Ardentite Puritans were mentioned to be rather investigative.
And the Xeno Hybris Radicals also have a motive in investigating events of possible powerful xeno technologies. (a possible IoM hypothesis for the Tyranid fleet's destruction could be that someone used a Xeno artifact)
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Meh, Monodominant leads to hilarity. So Monodominant it is!
Kill the xeno! Lolz.
It also gives the Culture a reason to go talk to other inquisitors. Like Amberley.
Now, the highly xenophobic inquisitors are contacted by a mysterious alien race that claims responsibility for a whole list of rather impossible occurences and are talking to them through an untraceable hologram... (and of course, shooting the hologram isn't going to do anything since it's clearly not the xenos themselves)
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Meh, Monodominant leads to hilarity. So Monodominant it is!
Just remember then, Inquisitors are the most dangerous individuals in the Imperium. Frighteningly competent and unflinchingly deceptive.
Even a died in the wool nutjob monodominant might well feign a pretence at "Conciliatory dialogue" to lure the dangerous Xenos in to be crushed. And the trap when sprung, will be extremely competent even if the Culture is capable of evading it.
Inquisitors are often powerful psykers, or have powerful psykers on their staff. They have the best wargear in the Imperium, including lost archeotech that may as well be unique. Grav manipulation, stasis fields, displacer devices, force fields, cloaking fields, haywire grenades and warp weapons like psykout or vortex bombs are all on the table if the Inquisitor Lord gets an inkling that they might be required.
Depending on the Conclave, Inquisitor lords are nominally supposed to be above partisan factional concerns, and will be required to deal professionally with the other inquisitors in the sector whether radical or puritan.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
They will try to talk and gather information I suppose.
Time to play If I Were:
- The Culture have introduced themselves and claimed responsibility for events that are widespread in the galaxy. If they speak the truth, they are a massive threat. It also could be an idle boast or a lure to sidetrack us from the main threat.
- That the hologram was able to give a list of which events were theirs and which were not implies that they have already bugged this entire investigation, despite the nearly unbreakable security of working off pure memorization.
--- That in itself implies some form of advanced technology or warp powers that can be concealed from a psyker.
- The hologram itself is also worrying, given that we can't trace or shut it off.
Things to do:
1. Find out the Culture's extent and reach; primarily, where their planets and home region is
2. Get an estimate of the Culture's military capability and other abilities; they certainly seem to be very good at infiltration
3. Get to know the Culture's goals, allies and enemies
4. Get more inquisitors on this case. Just my own network and inquisitor friends aren't going to be enough, especially if they've already bugged this place; which btw, was supposed to be unfindable
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
The most useful Inquisitors for The Culture to contact would be:
-Ordo Xenos
-Radical overall
-Moderate Recongregator
-Conservative or Moderate Xenos Hybris
Remember... the lines between these factions are quite blurred. Some of them started as conspiracies, some are still conspiracies, and many are just generic labels that Inquisitors attach to philosophical tendencies amongst the Inquisition in general, for internal (Inquisition) use. So you can definitely follow more than one of these!
A concerted effort to profile Inquisitors in general for purposes of contacting the right ones, would be helpful in targeting specific contact and diplomatic efforts. Do remember though that these are the most secretive professional paranoid sociopaths and psychopaths in human space...
Also, most ANY Inquisitor --Puritan or Radical!-- would respond to that contact with fury at the realization that they entered Sol. And also paranoia that The Culture infiltrated them.
Also, Inquisitors do work together, for big things. Even those with extreme philosophical disagreements in methods. And these events would definitely qualify as 'big'. The bigger the threat, the more likely they are to not be divided (overall) by the various cliques and conspiracies amongst them.
Also, if you haven't read the two anthologies, they are Ciaphas Cain: Hero of the Imperium and Ciaphas Cain: Defender of the Imperium. Trust me, if you spend a few days reading those things straight through, you'll have the writing style entrenched in your head close enough to get enough of the patterns right...
Also, Inquisitors, regardless of their faction, do tend to be 'human first', in that no matter what, they want humans to be the safely dominant force in the galaxy. Even the Xenos Hybris (which is supposedly in the Calixis Sector only, and probably still at the level of 'conspiracy' rather than 'philosophy' at this point), who believe in some level of cooperation with Xenos, still want the Imperium and Humanity to be dominant in general. I would presume that there are other conspiracies within the Ordo Xenos that have identical goals to the Xenos Hybris, but are in different sectors and have different names, and don't necessarily know of their Calixian counterparts...
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Last post for me today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gavinfoxx
Also, Inquisitors do work together, for big things. Even those with extreme philosophical disagreements in methods. And these events would definitely qualify as 'big'. The bigger the threat, the more likely they are to not be divided (overall) by the various cliques and conspiracies amongst them.
Oh, that does help quite a bit.
If only because it simplifies the matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gavinfoxx
Also, if you haven't read the two anthologies, they are Ciaphas Cain: Hero of the Imperium and Ciaphas Cain: Defender of the Imperium. Trust me, if you spend a few days reading those things straight through, you'll have the writing style entrenched in your head close enough to get enough of the patterns right...
I'll have to go find them though. And I don't actually have a few days to spare, since you know, nanowrimo does exist and I do still write this.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oracle_Hunter
Thanks for the link :smallsmile:
I am greatly amused than Banks does not even raise, let alone address, the issue as to why there are any meatpuppets in The Culture at all. He makes a big deal about how dangerous it is to live in space (hence making it impossible for "hegemonies" to stomp out dissent yet producing Perfect Socialism :smallconfused:) but doesn't stop to consider that the vacuum of space is a lot less dangerous for entities that don't need to breathe or eat and are comparatively easy to harden against radiation.
Why are there puppies and kittens in human society? They're adorable in their own clumsy and a bit dumb but sometimes surprisingly clever way.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Murska
Why are there puppies and kittens in human society? They're adorable in their own clumsy and a bit dumb but sometimes surprisingly clever way.
I absolutely agree :smallbiggrin:
That said, I'm not sure I'd give pets guns that can blow up cities or trust them to screw around in other civilizations. Seems irresponsible to me :smalltongue:
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
As an =]I[= Lord I think I'd be looking to set up a meet, then kidnap and interrogate the Diplomat for info. Probably try and replace the Diplomat with a Callidus assassin to have a high placed plant within the Culture.
I don't think it would work. But what they might get is a face to face meeting with an experienced SC agent, who they manage to mind scan with a hidden psyker. That would give them a lot of info. If they can telepathically pass that on and spread the message out via astropath, then suddenly the IoM has a lot more situational understanding. At least amongst the higher ups.
Oh, hey. One thing the Inquisition has that the Culture would be very interested in is Null Rods. They utterly cancel all psychic activity that they come into contact with. Psykers are rendered powerless if they touch them.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oracle_Hunter
I absolutely agree :smallbiggrin:
That said, I'm not sure I'd give pets guns that can blow up cities or trust them to screw around in other civilizations. Seems irresponsible to me :smalltongue:
But they're so adorable! :smalltongue:
I have this mental image of Minds having a "lolhumans" series of memes now.
On topic:
The inquisition, while fractious, would definitely cross-reference and call in more groups as backup in a situation like this. Especially if the Culture mentions that they went to Sol, or slipped up and mentioned anything related to their relatively peaceful contact with xenos.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jseah
What do you guys say? If you were the Culture, would you trade the Tau the hyperspace drive for a chance at cracking the Chaos contamination problem? (which admittedly, is kind of a Big Issue)
Well... The Culture was considering destabilizing The Imperium anyway. And the Tau Empire would likely use the Hyperspace drive for (mostly) another push for expansion of their empire, generally going by realspace distance (ie, a spherical expansion, just increasing the size of the sphere). Without the various other associated technologies, the Tau Empire can't greatly speed their expansion too much. They do like to expand, consolidate, expand, consolidate.
The Tau earnestly believe that The Imperium has generally failed to successfully help govern their border planets in a useful, effective way... which is generally true. If The Culture also sees that The Imperium hasn't really governed that well... do they want to keep it extant? I would probably say that they don't really want to destabilize the whole thing (like destroying the Astronomicon would cause untold deaths!), but replacing the government of some of the border areas with one that has ethical limits and behaves in a relatively sane way, which immediately comes into the void that The Imperium has left in these areas... might not be a bad thing.
The Culture would probably want some concessions and promises on the maximum timescale and depth of the takeover of Imperial space. IE, 'We know this will let you take over Imperial planets, and increase the rate of your expansion. Due to the fact that, as best as we can see, destabilizing the entire Imperium would have dire ramifications, the extent of which we can not predict, we want a treaty that limits the rate at which you annex Imperial worlds using this technology, thereby giving us time to gain a clearer picture of how replacing more and more of Imperial rule with different governance would affect the galaxy.'
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
I've been wondering, and I'm sure it's been discussed already, but how do the Tau deal with psykers emerging on planets they have annexed? Ork Infestations?
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fan
That's not a correct answer at all, while GW may "revise" canon from time to time they do keep things consistent within the codex's, and they are the original source.
Oh, in this case I was just taking Glyphstone's word that there are contradictions in the fluff. And given the varying power levels I've heard described in the novels by posters on this thread, it does rather sound like there is a certain lack of overall editorial control/intelligence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fan
Your opinion's on consistency are not relevant, and honestly taking fanfiction into account at all is an immediate no in any formal debate. I could bring up a fanfiction where 40k beats the culture because lances are randomly better than Gridfire, and they "Lulz Psyker Rape" the minds.
Would it be canon? No. Because fanfiction isn't.
One fanfiction piece is one fanfiction piece. It doesn't influence the setting unless it forms a cohesive whole with the rest of the depictions of the setting, first part, third party, and fanfiction. Much as first part pieces don't have any importance if they don't jive with the general stylistic presentation of the world in question. This is a mistake I often see you make with regard to various superhero universes: the fact that superman has accomplished ridiculous, galaxy-tossing things in certain comics is evidence against the canonicity of those comics, not evidence that superman has those capabilities. Fictional universes are determined by the picture woven in the minds of the collective readership, and if that readership reads fanfiction then that plays a role.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fan
Third party sources are also outside of control of the "Creative Source", so they aren't canon.
Consistency aside, it doesn't matter, Games Workshop work > any other source for 40k material. if you don't see a GW logo on the cover, it's less canon because it's their stamp of approved content. The only official measure of "canon" GW has is that stamp.
Your reiteration of this argument without more extensive justification suggests that you didn't fully understand my post. I suggest you read it again. My whole point is that any notion of a creative source is irrelevant. If you treat a fictional universe as worthy of arguments as if it were a real universe, then you need to emphasize those sources that produce a universe you can have those sorts of arguments about, which means you need to value cohesiveness, clarity of impressions, and memorability over any one author, group of authors, or company's particular creative output.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tiki Snakes
I've been wondering, and I'm sure it's been discussed already, but how do the Tau deal with psykers emerging on planets they have annexed? Ork Infestations?
I would presume they get their other Psykers to handle Psykers they find?? There is at least one race in the Empire that is most/all Psykers (though Tau themselves don't produce any)... And I presume they give the group of orks a chance to join the greater good, and when the orks inevitably decline, they shoot them, because orks are... you know. Orks, and the orks probably responded with threats of violence.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gavinfoxx
I would presume they get their other Psykers to handle Psykers they find?? And I presume they give the group of orks a chance to join the greater good, and when the orks inevitably decline, they shoot them, because orks are... you know. Orks, and the orks probably responded with threats of violence.
But I thought the Tau didn't have any Psykers? It's kind of their thing. Does one of their client-races have some? I mean, it's a very different setup if the Tau are imposing alien secret-police on their annexed worlds than if they aren't, but if they aren't there are other problems that would arise.
I mean, is there any official word, or semi-official hint on the subject?
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
The Tau (race) has no psykers.
The Tau (empire) has psykers.
They just aren't of the Tau Race.
Look up Nicassar. There may be another (I don't know if the Psykers in EDIT: one of the Last Chancers novels were implied to be Nicassar or not).
I edited the post you quoted.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Anything up to Alpha+ level psykers are perfectly able to be fought with conventional force. Most Alpha+ psykers too.
If the Tau ever encounter something that can't be? Then they're pretty screwed. EDIT: Although, yeah. I guess the answer is their vassal races.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
I also heard that the Kroot that ate Eldar developed some psykers. One developed a partial ability to turn invisible. Sometimes. Those Kroot that ate Eldar have a lot of Shamans...
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
The Nicassar don't sound like they'd be much use. Which is to say, they are apparently exclusively interested in scouting the galaxy and hibernate when they aren't. Also they have that whole planetary gravity crushing them thing going, which seems to be all the rage these days.
From what I can find out, it seems to be that the answer is quite literally that the Tau Empire simply hasn't expanded enough for long enough for it to really have been a problem yet and whilst they kind of understand psykers exist they have literally no handle on them otherwise.
Not sure how the Kroot factor in, they don't seem that deeply intergrated as to be used to control the human Psyker problem. And from what I can tell, if they were put in charge of it, it would ammount to eating them to gain their awesome powers.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Ah! Just double checked. The Psykers working for the Tau were in one of the Last Chancers novels (Kill Team, I think). They are described as:
"Three smaller figures"
"small aliens, nearly naked but for short skirts, grey-skinned with wide yellow eyes and completely devoid of hair."
They weren't described as floating flat polar bears, so they weren't Nicassar. So at least some Tau have access to not only Nicassar psykers, but also... whatever those were. All we can figure out is 'minor race, nonhuman, eastern fringe, not nicassar', I think.
And yes, because exploring the galaxy isn't anything The Culture has been shown to do... >.> And the Nicassar hybernate because their ships are slowships!
I would just say that there are probably several very minor psyker races in the Tau Empire, or at least allied with it. Probably groups that are like, 'oh my gawd, we're going to get annihilated by the Imperials if we aren't in a big enough group, they hate nonhuman psykers! Ahhhh!'
Also. Amberley is Puritan. Quite Puritan. She is not a good choice for helping The Culture, just saying... but a Ciaphas Cain and Amberley story would be interesting, which is why people want it.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gavinfoxx
Ah! Just double checked. The Psykers working for the Tau were in one of the Last Chancers novels (Kill Team, I think). They are described as:
"Three smaller figures"
"small aliens, nearly naked but for short skirts, grey-skinned with wide yellow eyes and completely devoid of hair."
They weren't described as flat polar bears, so they weren't Nicassar. So at least some Tau have access to not only Nicassar psykers, but also... whatever those were.
And yes, because exploring the galaxy isn't anything The Culture has been shown to do... >.> And the Nicassar hybernate because their ships are slowships!
Uh, well, what research I've managed to do didn't throw up any mention of anything like that, nor anything like that amongst the noteable allied races. Are they ever mentioned elsewhere?
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Yes, Nicassar. Used only for explory scouty stuff and space travel, as I said. Also specifically hidden at all cost from the Imperium of Man.
Which is to say, no mention of them looking after the annexed human worlds potential psyker problem, which is what I was asking about.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...-Brainstorming
That also is a discussion of some people discussing them, hmmm...
Maybe they use the other psykers, the little ones written in the Last Chancers book??
Those are presumably a little more 'distant' to the core of the Tau Empire, and maybe are just allied mercenaries rather than full members of the Empire? More plausible deniability, perhaps?
I think it is implied in the books that there are a few different levels of involvement in The Greater Good, from just being a paid mercenary to full fledged member species. It seems that there is a range...
Also, there are known to be extremely rare (unique?) xenos artifacts that help 'make' psykers. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Shadowlight
That seems like the sort of thing that a deep understanding of warp could make possible.
Jseah: Have you decided on a precise date as to when your fanfic is happening?
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M41
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M42
http://www.scholaprogenium.com/timeline.html#yy
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/M41
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/M42
http://www.ironhands.com/40time.htm
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gavinfoxx
It was also made by The Old Ones, the same ones that MADE the Orks.
They're kind of Gods.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fan
It was also made by The Old Ones, the same ones that MADE the Orks.
They're kind of Gods.
Ah, ffffigures. What were some of the other artifacts that weird crazy entities of that power level made?
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gavinfoxx
Ah, ffffigures. What were some of the other artifacts that weird crazy entities of that power level made?
The Old Ones made a bunch of crazy stuff like the Blackstone Fortresses, though it seems like they preferred bio-engineering tons of Psyker races to actually making superweapons. The Eldar at their height were a smidge less powerful, and their civilization was probably pretty badass before they hedonism'd themselves out of existence; they've certainly left a lot of weapons.
The Necrons under the C'Tan were similarly powerful to the Old Ones so arguably their null generators and Tomb Worlds fit the bill. The C'Tan Shards themselves, though not "made" exactly, are pretty stupidly powerful weapons.
The Emperor was about as powerful as all the Chaos Gods combined before he was worshipped like a God for 10,000 years and had billions of souls sacrificed to him and he made stuff like the Primarchs and the Golden Throne / Astronomicon. Remember; the Astonomicon projects a signal across the better part of the entire galaxy and partial stabilizes the Warp to allow ships to travel. BTW, how does the Culture feel about the ~1,000 souls per day the thing needs for fuel?
Chaos doesn't really build, but Warpcraft really has no upper limit on what it can accomplish with a smart enough and crazy enough Sorcerer behind it. Unbound Daemonhosts can single-handedly devastate planets, and that's a relatively common kind of thing for Cultists to stumble into making.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
I thought the Blackstone Fortresses were Eldar??
Also, didn't the Astronomicon not always need the fuel, before the Emperor was in it?
Or did it always need the fuel?
And what happened with the whole Emperor trying to make a human controlled area of the webway? Was that ever clarified or retconned or anything?
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gavinfoxx
I thought the Blackstone Fortresses were Eldar??
Not according to the wiki.
But remember, the Eldar are the inheritors of the Old Ones; out of everyone they've got the best shot of actually using their tech or even understanding some of the arcane Warp principles behind it.
-Edit-
The Astronomicon doesn't need fuel if a >Alpha+ Psyker (like the Emperor or some of the Primarchs) is willing to sit there and focus on it. But the Big E didn't want to waste time sitting on his ass when there was Science! to do, and none of the Primarchs had free time either, so he jury-rigged it as a temporary measure. And if you've ever made a "temporary" fix to machinery, you know how reluctant management is to throw down the resources for a real upgrade afterwards.
With the Webway, he was mainly trying to figure out how to build Webway Gates. The Webway, being relatively isolated from the regular Warp, is much more reliable and less dangerous for travel; you can even travel on foot if you're a masochist. Plus, it's the perfect way to annihilate the Eldar; send a Crusade in and they can hit every Craftworld at once and raid the Black Library.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gavinfoxx
I thought the Blackstone Fortresses were Eldar??
Also, didn't the Astronomicon not always need the fuel, before the Emperor was in it?
Or did it always need the fuel?
And what happened with the whole Emperor trying to make a human controlled area of the webway? Was that ever clarified or retconned or anything?
It was destroyed, The Emperor sat upon it, and psuedo died.
Also, the Astral Choir would probably all but REQUIRE the Culture to bring back the Emperor, or kill him and bring him back, in order to be in line with their morals once discovered.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
I would love to see the Culture run into the Illuminati and be so happy someone in the IoM will talk to them they unwittingly bring the Sensei together... only to see them sacrificed and the Emperor reborn more powerful and zealous than ever. :smallamused:
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Water_Bear
I would love to see the Culture run into the Illuminati
They would have to find a WHOLE LOT of other Imperial folk first... those sorts of people are sooo craazzyyy raaarreee... I don't think that group would come out of the woodwork quickly or at all...
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Aren't they the star-child guys? I thought they were quietly ignore-conned like the Star Child itself?
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
...Is the Star Child ignore-conned??
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gavinfoxx
...Is the Star Child ignore-conned??
I believe the Sensei were officially declared a Tzeentch Cult.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gavinfoxx
Jseah: Have you decided on a precise date as to when your fanfic is happening?
Some time in M42.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fan
Also, the Astral Choir would probably all but REQUIRE the Culture to bring back the Emperor, or kill him and bring him back, in order to be in line with their morals once discovered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Water_Bear
BTW, how does the Culture feel about the ~1,000 souls per day the thing needs for fuel?
They understand that the IoM needs to do that. It's horrific but that's the way it is. They aim to get rid of it.
By eventually replacing the IoM warpdrive with hyperspace drives.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
part 7.5 IoM Contact
Spoiler
Show
Starry Banner reports that contact with the Inquisitors has been relatively peaceful, although we have decided to reject meeting them in person. The risk of attack was deemed too high, even for a lone SC agent, and the excessive risk posed by their use of psykers was deemed unacceptable.
They refused to meet under a no-psyker restriction after we revealed that we could detect that they snuck a psyker into the meeting despite a stealth device being used. Simple DNA matching of the people present with a tally of every person in the IoM facility was enough to uniquely identify the psyker present.
It took some time to get them to understand that we are a primarily space-bound civilization and thus have no designs on IoM territory or resources.
We offered apologies for intruding into their territory, in particular, Sol, and they understandably were unsatisfied. When they demanded we leave, we did point out that we are unable to leave IoM space altogether since the IoM occupy every part of this galaxy. We are quite confident that this will lead to open war at some point in the future, at least on the IoM's part.
Societal models indicate the following spark points are likely, <...>
While Starry Banner has concealed our true technology, extent and penetration of IoM holdings, as well as our future plans for the IoM, we have managed to communicate some of our culture and society, which they find hard to believe.
We have managed to find common ground in a desire to observe and contain the threat of Chaos. However, we are of the opinion that this matters little.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jseah
I need data! Someone answer how the Ordo Xenos might react! =P
Also, does anyone have some kind of excerpt for this Amberley woman? Someone requested that the Culture contact her, and if she's involved with the Ordo Xenos, sure. But I need to know how she'll react and think, so an excerpt of some kind would be nice.
You know as awesome as Amberley is, I think you should just stick to using original characters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jseah
part 7.5 IoM Contact
Spoiler
Show
Starry Banner reports that contact with the Inquisitors has been relatively peaceful, although we have decided to reject meeting them in person. The risk of attack was deemed too high, even for a lone SC agent, and the excessive risk posed by their use of psykers was deemed unacceptable.
They refused to meet under a no-psyker restriction after we revealed that we could detect that they snuck a psyker into the meeting despite a stealth device being used. Simple DNA matching of the people present with a tally of every person in the IoM facility was enough to uniquely identify the psyker present.
It took some time to get them to understand that we are a primarily space-bound civilization and thus have no designs on IoM territory or resources.
We offered apologies for intruding into their territory, in particular, Sol, and they understandably were unsatisfied. When they demanded we leave, we did point out that we are unable to leave IoM space altogether since the IoM occupy every part of this galaxy. We are quite confident that this will lead to open war at some point in the future, at least on the IoM's part.
Societal models indicate the following spark points are likely, <...>
While Starry Banner has concealed our true technology, extent and penetration of IoM holdings, as well as our future plans for the IoM, we have managed to communicate some of our culture and society, which they find hard to believe.
We have managed to find common ground in a desire to observe and contain the threat of Chaos. However, we are of the opinion that this matters little.
Yeah that seems to be about right.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Forum Explorer
You know as awesome as Amberley is, I think you should just stick to using original characters.
Yeah that seems to be about right.
I am, unfortunately, slowly beginning to reach the same conclusion. His writing style doesn't fit many canonical characters that I can think of... after he reads a bunch of books, maybe -- but in a lot of cases, these characters wouldn't be, yaknow, meaningful additions to the plot or story. Does anyone know of a named, canonical, radical ordo xenos inquisitor that is alive at early m42? As far as accuracy -- that sounds about right regarding how the Ordo Xenos would react.
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Re: The Culture explores 40K II: Now With 100% more Fanfiction
Kryptman? He's got no confirmed death-date, and considering he's already Exocommunicate Traitorus, he wouldn't have a whole lot to lose by dealing with the Culture -particularly since they can more-or-less singlehandedly exterminate the Tyranids, which is sort of his mania.