A Wizard's Cross-Edition Dilemma

Greetings, Playground. It's been a while.

I'm here today with a quandary presented to me by my DM, and I am requesting help.

Context: I am a 10th level Order of Scribes Wizard (Battlefield Controller) whose party has journeyed to the Library of All Knowledge in the Beastlands to look into an artifact. Our arrival heralded the end of last session, and with it came something unexpected: since I'm a Scribe-Wizard, I will be allowed to copy any one spell of 5th level or lower into my spellbook next session. Here's the twist: not only can it be any spell of 5th level or lower, but it can be from any edition of D&D, past or present.¹ If it's a spell from an earlier edition that wasn't converted, it will be adapted to fit in 5th edition rules/guidelines.

I'll be direct here: I am not an expert on casting, be it arcane, divine, or something in-between. Most of my knowledge is 3.5e, and most of my experience with casters in that regard has been theorycrafting rather than actual play. I could probably find a spell that I like and want to import eventually, but would forever be uncertain if I made the right decision. Thus, I turn to all of you.

In short: I can have any one spell of 5th level or lower from any edition and choice paralysis is combining with my lesser-familiarity with anything not 3.5 Incarnum-related. I'd like suggestions of good spells to consider that meet the criteria listed.

Thanks in advance!

P.S. In case it matters, I usually spend combat at a safe distance, and the spells I cast in combat on the regular include Web, Summon spells from Tasha's/Fizban's, formerly Flaming Sphere (which thanks to being a Scribe-Wizard was usually instead a Flaming Snowball), and similar, weaving damaging spells between via my Manifested Mind (usually spells that have ride-along effects, such as Ralothum's Psychic Lance and Chill Touch), and if we are the ones setting up said ambush from within the safety of Leomund's Tiny Hut (abusing the fact that I can cast spells to target enemies outside via my Manifested Mind). I have Spell Sniper and Warcaster, and my current attunement items include an Atlas of Endless Horizons and an Astromancy Archive.

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^{1: Official material only, no Dragon Magazine nor 3rd-party books, and can be setting-specific.}

I'm going to assume you aren't allowed the actual cool stuff like the AD&D verson of Haste.

From AD&D there's Metal Skin (stoneskin plus), Transfix (multi-target hold person with no duration but instead a release condition), Lesser Ironguard (intangibility to metal), Duo-Dimension (weirdness of being 2-d), Sticks to Snakes (1d4 + 1/character level and possibly affecting enemy weapons), Slay Living (the original save or die), Avoidance/Attraction (amusing and permament), Unluck (the original disadvantage mechanic)...

Honestly there's bloody tons, and that's just AD&D. Find a decent site with lists and look for random interesting stuff, check a copy of the 3.5e Spell Compendium while you're at it too.

If any spell means non-arcane options are on the table, that's interesting...

I'm a fan of stuff like:
Simbul's Spell Matrix - 5th Sor/Wiz (Magic of Faerun)
Spell Phylactery - 5th Clr (Magic of Faerun)
Create Magic Tattoo - 2nd Sor/Wiz (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd Ed)
Lesser Ironguard - 5th Sor/Wiz (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd Ed)

But... honestly? I'd probably go with Permanency. :smallwink:

That... is a big question.

For starters, and hopefully to ease your paralysis a bit, if you have basically every spell ever printed for D&D at your disposal, there is no absolute best choice and you won't find it. There are just too many good choices, all you want is to avoid the bad ones.

But which ones can be considered good is not that easy to ascertain, because "adapting it to fit 5e rules/guidelines" is a really vague frame. Something like the infamous shivering touch or even ray of stupidity would still be excellent in 5e if the only conversion is "it's now a standard ranged spell attack because touch AC isn't a thing" but becomes way worse if it also, say, gets a Con save to negate, considering a lot of the things you'd be using it against are likely to have a hefty Con save. Similarly, a no-save-just-suck effect is likely to get a save, essentially ruining its point. Because that's very much a 5e guideline - save-or-die isn't a thing (unless it's an awful exception like flesh to stone) and neither are no save effects or spells that do something even on a save (unless it's a blast). Like, solid fog would be bonkers... unless it's given a save.

In that vein, if you want to play it safe, it's probably better to stick with something powerful that involves buffs with mechanics similar to today's. Off the top of my head, 3.5 celerity. Or AD&D's armor (though this could potentially have its best feature, no time limit, revoked). Shadow conjuration/evocation is amazingly versatile and likely to stay strong even after adapted for 5e. Greater mirror image has great action economy and defensive potential, as long as it's not given concentration.

The list is really long and there are people with a lot more knowledge and experience from previous editions than me, so I'll leave the suggestions to others.

Off the top of my head

Divine power from the cleric list in 3.5 is great if you want a spell that makes you great in melee combat

Other ideas that came to mind were curse spells like blindness/deafness from 3.5 where the curse is permanent not for as long as you concentrate like it is in 3.5

Finding spells that produce permanent affects would be worthwhile

I am fond of overland flight. It is fifth level, and is ten hours of concentration-free flight at your level.

Any of the 3.5 stat-boosters would also be impressive in 5e. They don't list a maximum to which they can raise a stat.

Depending on your campaign, endure elements could be really useful or totally worthless, but it has no equivalent in 5e.

Neither does command undead, come to think of it, and that could be very powerful in the right game.

Also consider if you have any concentration spells you wish weren't; earlier edition versions probably don't require it.

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Originally Posted by Segev

Any of the 3.5 stat-boosters would also be impressive in 5e. They don't list a maximum to which they can raise a stat.

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You're thinking too small, Segev. You don't want the 3.5 stat-boosters. You want the 3.0 stat boosters. The ones whose duration is 1 hour/level, instead of that paltry minute/level you get in 3.5.

There's dozens to hundreds of meaningful choices for this, however, given how 5e works, and you being a controller, I think I'd go for 3e's Sonorous Hum, which basically keeps concentration on a spell for you.

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Originally Posted by Savage Species p.69

Sonorous Hum
Evocation [Sonic]
Level: Bard 2, Cleric 3, Sorcerer 3, Wizard 3,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 minute/level (D)

After you cast this spell, the next spell you cast within the duration that requires concentration to maintain is maintained for you until the sonorous hum spell expires.
This effect allows you to cast other spells, even another spell that also requires concentration.
If the spell maintained by the sonorous hum has a shorter duration than that of this spell, the maintained spell expires as it normally would and you gain no further benefits from this casting of sonorous hum.
The sound created by the spell is as loud as a person in armor walking at a slow pace trying not to make noise (normally a DC 5 Listen check to detect).
You may end the sonorous hum as a free action.
For example, you could cast this spell, then cast detect thoughts, and this spell maintains the concentration on detect thoughts while you cast discern lies and maintain concentration on that spell yourself.
You control all aspects of both spells, so you could change the orientation of the detect thoughts effect and select a different target for your discern lies spell in the same round.

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Originally Posted by Telok

I'm going to assume you aren't allowed the actual cool stuff like the AD&D verson of Haste.

From AD&D there's Metal Skin (stoneskin plus), Transfix (multi-target hold person with no duration but instead a release condition), Lesser Ironguard (intangibility to metal), Duo-Dimension (weirdness of being 2-d), Sticks to Snakes (1d4 + 1/character level and possibly affecting enemy weapons), Slay Living (the original save or die), Avoidance/Attraction (amusing and permament), Unluck (the original disadvantage mechanic)...

Honestly there's bloody tons, and that's just AD&D. Find a decent site with lists and look for random interesting stuff, check a copy of the 3.5e Spell Compendium while you're at it too.

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Sticks to Snakes is the only correct answer. That spell rules.

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Originally Posted by LibraryOgre

You're thinking too small, Segev. You don't want the 3.5 stat-boosters. You want the 3.0 stat boosters. The ones whose duration is 1 hour/level, instead of that paltry minute/level you get in 3.5.

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You are absolutely right! 3.0 stat-boosters for the win!

I agree with the permanency spell. Then I'd start breaking myself and the party with permanent buffs.

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Originally Posted by Getsugaru

In short: I can have any one spell of 5th level or lower from any edition and choice paralysis is combining with my lesser-familiarity with anything not 3.5 Incarnum-related. I'd like suggestions of good spells to consider that meet the criteria listed.

1: Official material only, no Dragon Magazine nor 3rd-party books, and can be setting-specific.

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My suggestions:
1. Take the Original Game's version of Teleport. It's a fifth level spell. :smallsmile: (Same with AD&D 1e, teleport is a level 5 spell).
or
2: The Original Game's Finger of Death. (The reverse of Raise Dead). On a failed save the target dies. :smallbiggrin:

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Instead of raising the dead, this spell creates a "death ray" which will kill any creature unless a saving throw is made. (Where applicable). Range 12" {120' indoors, 120 yards outdoors}.

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If you take the 2E version of Raise Dead, it can be reversed into Finger of Death, and still counts as the same spell.

Transmute Rock to Mud is a fun one (2E AD&D).

Fleet feet (3rd level) from 2E Darksun doubles your target's base movement rate for 1 day per 5 caster levels. If you move above your base rate in melee and want to turn, you need to make a Dex check or fall over (roll under your Dex on a d20 to succeed).

How about Nahal's Reckless Dweomer from the 2E Tome of Magic? For the cost of a first level spell slot, cast (maybe) any spell you know.

Or Metamorphose Liquids (1st level 2E Tome of Magic). Turn 1 cubic foot of water per level into whatever liquid you care to drip a drop of on your tongue. With a protection from heat spell, you could put a drop of molten platinum or adamantium on your tongue, and your money problems will be a thing of the past.

Enlarge (1st level 2E) will increase a target by 10% per level for 5 rounds per level. Your friendly fighter can be 12 feet tall and inflict double damage for 50 minutes! It is also reversible, letting you shrink a pesky stone block that's sealing you in a room, for example.

Wait, how is your DM going to treat rounds? In 1E/2E, a round is about 1 minute long, and a turn is 10 minutes long. How will your DM convert those over to 5e?

Most Early Edition spells do not require concentration. Will these spells be subject to the normal 5E concentration rules?

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Originally Posted by Getsugaru

If it's a spell from an earlier edition that wasn't converted, it will be adapted to fit in 5th edition rules/guidelines.

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Originally Posted by Lord Torath

Wait, how is your DM going to treat rounds? In 1E/2E, a round is about 1 minute long, and a turn is 10 minutes long. How will your DM convert those over to 5e?

Most Early Edition spells do not require concentration. Will these spells be subject to the normal 5E concentration rules?

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That's his real issue. Haste, Enlarge, etc., aren't going to be any good as they've been "updated". What we're really looking for is spells that never made it to 5e and will survive whatever conversion the GM does to them.

Like that Transfix spell

Spoiler

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This spell is a more powerful version of the hold person spell. When cast, the wu jen identifies the center point of the effect. All creatures within the area of effect at that time must make a saving throw vs. spell. If the save is successful, the spell has no effect on that creature. If the saving throw is failed, that creature is transfixed. Furthermore, any creature entering the area of the spell after it is cast must also make a saving throw vs. spell (at -1-4 bonus to the die roll) or be transfixed. A saving throw must be made each time a creature enters the area of effect.

Transfixed creatures cannot move, speak, cast spells, or take any action. Once creatures are transfixed, the wu jen must state some condition that must be met to release the victims: “Wait here until I return" or “Stay there for all eternity!" The condition can be anything, however implau*sible. If this condition is met, the creatures are in*stantly released. Creatures removed from the area of effect are instantly freed. Also, for every hour a creature remains transfixed, it is allowed another saving throw vs. spell to escape.

The spell remains active in its area as long as at least one creature is affected by it.

Its a seriously up-powered hold person. Which was fine in its setting and AD&D as there was no assurance any particular mage could even learn it and because saves scaled with level. But 5e Hold Person is save-every-round, and concentration, and duration. On top of that 5e doesn't like 'save when you enter' zones, most are 'save if you end your turn in the zone'. So if the changes to Transfix were adding concentration, adding save-every-round, and only being affected by ending your turn in it instead of on entry, then its not a good spell in 5e tiers 3 & 4 where to OP is. If the spell "updates" pretty much straight then its bloody great.

So its nearly all predicated on the conversion for many spells, and only the OP might know how the GM will change them.

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Originally Posted by Telok

Its a seriously up-powered hold person.

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That's not Hold Person. That's a bastard offspring of Hypnotic Pattern and Imprisonment.

Regarding permanency, I think its a good option, but not nearly as powerful as some seem to think it is. The spell didn't allow you to make any spell permanent, it had a list of spells it applied to, at a glance the only one that'd be really powerful on a day to day basis seems to be Animate Objects. Here's the list from 3.5 (bigger than 3e's and 2e's list of spells)

Spoiler: On Yourself

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Arcane Sight
Comprehend Languages
Darkvision
Detect Magic
Read Magic
See Invisibility
Tongues

Cool to have those on at all times, but nothing really THAT impactful IMO.

Spoiler: On yourself or others

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Enlarge Person
Magic Fang
Greater Magic Fang
Reduce Person
Resistance
Rary's Telepathic Bond(two people only)

Less impactful than the self-only list.

Spoiler: Areas or Objects

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Alarm
Animate Objects
Dancing Lights
Ghost Sound
Gust of Wind
Invisibility
Mordenkainen’s Private Sanctum
Magic Mouth
Phase Door
Prismatic Sphere
Prismatic Wall
Shrink Item
Solid Fog
Stinking Cloud
Symbol of Death
Symbol of Fear
Symbol of Insanity
Symbol of Pain
Symbol of Persuasion
Symbol of Sleep
Symbol of Stunning
Symbol of Weakness
Teleportation Circle
Wall of Fire
Wall of Force
Web

That's awesome to get yourself a fort, Permanent Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum, Wall of Force, and even Prismatic Wall/Sphere are awesome for worldbuilding getting a base of operations and such, but in day to day adventuring Animate Objects its the only one that stands out IMO.

There's probably a bunch more in the spell compendium or other splats that have a specific clause for permanency working on them, but odds are most if not all of those spells didn't make it to 5e, so they are moot for not being an accessible spell.

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Originally Posted by Telok

Like that Transfix spell

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Was transfix lvl 5? I thought it was lvl 6

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Originally Posted by Getsugaru

Context: I am a 10th level Order of Scribes Wizard (Battlefield Controller)

I usually spend combat at a safe distance, and the spells I cast in combat on the regular include Web, Summon spells from Tasha's/Fizban's

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If you like your summons i'd ask your DM how Summon Monster would work. If it's something along the lines of 'pick a Monstrosity of CR X scaling by spell slot' that would potentially be a great pick.

Other than that, i'd probably pick a 2nd or 3rd level spell that would scale well. Perhaps take a look at Ray of Exhaustion, Bands of Steel, Baleful Transposition, Sonorus Hum, Ghost Companion, Mass Snake's Swiftness, Dehydrate, maybe Venomfire?

I'd back those who've said permanency. There are lots of spells to buff you or do damage or control the terrain but nothing really fits permanency's niche in 5e. A big caveat though is that the players handbook version of permanency only covers a handful of spells and you'll need to look into a bunch of splatbooks to get more options. And then of course half of those spells don't exist in 5e or are significantly altered. Plus there's the whole using exp to cast the spell which isn't a thing in 5e. So long story short it's a good spell with a strong and unique niche but it would be a huge headache to port over. Not saying it can't be done or wouldn't be worth it just that it would be a hassle, perhaps more of a hassle than your DM is willing to go through so talk to him about it.

Well, you're an order of scribes wizard, so obviously you'll learn every spell in lexicographic order. So your first one will be, uh, Abate Dracorage.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Segev

You are absolutely right! 3.0 stat-boosters for the win!

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Consider Owl's Insight.

Owl's Insight
Level: Druid 5
Source: Magic of Faerun / Spell Compendium
Duration: 1 hour
Effect: Target's Wisdom increases by half your level.

Just throw a casual +5 to Wisdom on random people. Then record their insights for them. Eventually start talking to Wis 30 characters.

In practice the 3.0 stat-boosters would be more useful. However it would be interesting to use a +10 Wis spell in 5E's bounded accuracy.

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Originally Posted by OldTrees1

Consider Owl's Insight.

Owl's Insight
Level: Druid 5
Source: Magic of Faerun / Spell Compendium
Duration: 1 hour
Effect: Target's Wisdom increases by half your level.

Just throw a casual +5 to Wisdom on random people. Then record their insights for them. Eventually start talking to Wis 30 characters.

In practice the 3.0 stat-boosters would be more useful. However it would be interesting to use a +10 Wis spell in 5E's bounded accuracy.

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Divine Agility was +10 Dex, but IIRC it was Cleric only.

Depends how niche/powerful you want to get.

Flaying Tendrils? Retributive Image is fun for an Illusionist... Lord of the Sky is... fun to say? Dimension Jumper is a neat 1/round Misty Step.

For OP things... Summon Monster V? There isn't an 'equivalent' in 5e per se (kind of got broken I suppose). It does Elementals and Celestial Gryphons ^_^

from 3.5:
One of the dedicated calling spells might be good. e.g. call nightmare, create lantern archon, etc. They call in a specific creature for long periods of time, so you could argue for them functioning more like find familiar or find steed than conventional summoning spells.

friendly fire isn't replicated in 5e and is pretty specific about what it does so it might survive conversion

The version of divine agility that adds 10 to dex would be fun if it isn't nerfed too badly

one of the permanent spells like opalescent glare might convert well

some of the more obnoxious combat spells like enervation might work

spells that mess with magic items might be fun. convert wand seems hard to screw up too badly.

Do you have access to a ship? Create Minor Helm is a 5th level Priest spell from the 2E Adventures in Space Spelljammer boxed set. If you have a chair, the spell lasts for 1 week per level. If you don't it creates a chair that lasts for 1 day per level.

Thank you all for your wonderful suggestions; I'm thinking of going with Sonorous Hum. I've shared it with my DM, and he has responded thus:

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Allowing one player double concentration spells is extremely overpowered, so I will make some changes to this spell to balance it.
It is a 4th level spell. Sonorous Hum must be cast either at or at a higher level than the spell it will be used to maintain concentration on.
I will also note, the spell it is maintaining concentration on will immediately end if you fall under the effects of the silence spell.

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Part of me wishes to ask my DM to reconsider the changes—considering the fact that the spell already has to be cast ahead of the spell it manages, reduces the duration if it was longer than Sonorous Hum's, still requires concentration checks, etc.—but part of me doesn't know if he's wrong to adjust the spell as he did.

The spell ending due to Silence makes total sense, as it's a [Sonic] Evocation and lists that it's as loud as someone in full armor trying to be stealthy; that I don't have a problem with as it is logical. The increase in spell level feels a bit annoying, but potentially manageable. The limitation on what it can effect to being less than or equal to its own spell level feels punishing, simply due to how few spells we get per level in this edition.

Am I overthinking this?

Either way, thank you, everyone, for your wonderful suggestions. Permanency was tempting, but since the spell mostly operates on XP costs, I was unsure how that would mesh with our table (TL;DR: we're speeding through the campaign due to the DM's wife's pregnancy). The stat-boosting spells such as Owl's Insight, etc. would be nice, but with this DM's rulings for Sonorous Hum, I fear they would become concentration spells or be locked by 5th's banded-statistics mechanics and not go above 20 (which wouldn't be as big a problem aside from the concentration risks). Really, the versatility and paradigm shift of Sonorous Hum just spoke to me, whispering of the potential (and also something about show tunes).

Double Concentration is extremely powerful in 5e. I think your DM's adjustments are reasonable.

In addition to making it susceptible to silence, I'd make the hum be audible to creatures within a certain radius (say, 30' or 60').

Double concentration is powerful and rare, but certainly not unheard of or so powerful as to be so heavily curtailed.

The Tal'Dorei Guide offers the "Dual Focused" feat which allows a way to focus on two spells at the same time.
Twin Spell metamagic is basically double concentration as well.

I think you're right to be concerned about 5e's fewer spell slots in particular.
You may just be better off picking up an off-list 5e spell and thereby not worrying about how your DM will need to update your choice.

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Originally Posted by Getsugaru

Thank you all for your wonderful suggestions; I'm thinking of going with Sonorous Hum. I've shared it with my DM, and he has responded thus:

Part of me wishes to ask my DM to reconsider the changes—considering the fact that the spell already has to be cast ahead of the spell it manages, reduces the duration if it was longer than Sonorous Hum's, still requires concentration checks, etc.—but part of me doesn't know if he's wrong to adjust the spell as he did.

The spell ending due to Silence makes total sense, as it's a [Sonic] Evocation and lists that it's as loud as someone in full armor trying to be stealthy; that I don't have a problem with as it is logical. The increase in spell level feels a bit annoying, but potentially manageable. The limitation on what it can effect to being less than or equal to its own spell level feels punishing, simply due to how few spells we get per level in this edition.

Am I overthinking this?

Either way, thank you, everyone, for your wonderful suggestions. Permanency was tempting, but since the spell mostly operates on XP costs, I was unsure how that would mesh with our table (TL;DR: we're speeding through the campaign due to the DM's wife's pregnancy). The stat-boosting spells such as Owl's Insight, etc. would be nice, but with this DM's rulings for Sonorous Hum, I fear they would become concentration spells or be locked by 5th's banded-statistics mechanics and not go above 20 (which wouldn't be as big a problem aside from the concentration risks). Really, the versatility and paradigm shift of Sonorous Hum just spoke to me, whispering of the potential (and also something about show tunes).

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Well, yeah, the slot commitment becomes very high, I think its likely still ok if you generally end your day with many slots available.

Yeah i'd pick something else

OR, counteroffer from another DM:

3rd level spell
Action cast time
1 min duration

As part of casting this spell you also cast a spell of 2nd level or lower that requires concentration (and a cast time of one action or less). This spell concentrates on it for you, with some restrictions:
- The hum is audible within 120' and imposes disadvantage on stealth checks
- Any concentration check you have to make has to be rolled for each spell
- A Silence effect automatically ends the hum

At higher levels: for each spell slot above 3rd you use to cast this spell, the spell level of the concentration spell it allows you to cast increases by one

From Baldur's Gate II (2nd edition +-):
Minor Sequencer
4th level evocation
This spell allows a wizard to store two spells and activate them both at the same time at the same target. Both spells must be of 2nd level or lower. To create a sequencer, a Mage must memorize not only Minor Sequencer but also the spells he intends to store in it (a Sorcerer can store spells of any level for which he has spell slots).

A sequencer lasts until activated and, once used, releases its spells immediately. A wizard can possess only one Minor Sequencer at a time, and it may not be given to other creatures.

For adaptation, I'd consider giving it a mildly costly consumable material component, like a 100gp bar of silver (1lb? 5lb?) to be managed, and let the sequencer be triggered as a bonus action (which would count as casting a spell as a bonus action, and then leave the wizard able to cast only cantrips with his action).

If the two spells are triggered at an invalid target, whichever one(s) are invalid fail... if you Invisible+Web yourself, it works, but if you Invisible+Web the floor, the floor doesn't go Invisible.

You can use it either for a round-1 alpha strike (extra magic missiles, double shatter), or as a defensive tool to immediately throw up Mirror Image and Expeditious Retreat on round 1. As it's limited to 2nd level spells, it won't produce unbalanced numbers. Double shatter is less damage than a Fireball, and you're using a material component and, at some point, a 4th and 2 2nd level spell slots to cast it. I'm fairly sure it's hard to break, while still offering an interestingly variable tool for tough fights or hard spots.

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Originally Posted by J-H

-Snip-

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Bonus action blindness/deafness + mind whip? Web + binding ice? Blur + mirror image? Enlarge + see invisibility?
Its still two 2nds and a 4th to pull off and doesnt skirt concentration so i guess its alright.

Look up Beltyn's Burning Blood, is it good, doesn’t matter.

Is it fun and awesome, yes.

It kind of got ported to 5e, but what about the humble "explosive runes"?
For something less cheesy, how about Sakkaratar's Tripple Strike, which is basically haste but multi-target and attack-only. But it's +2 attacks explicitly rather than just "an extra". Only lasts 1 round too, but if you have an attack-heavy party this could be good burst.