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Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Freefall is a (relatively) hard sci comic about a boy squid and his dog antropomorphised wolf. He is a daring adventurer intent on gaining wealth and fame. She is a spacecraft engineer. Together, they fight crime commit grand larceny for great glory (much to the chagrin of the uplifted wolf).
Recently, the main characters have been hired to track down unexplained losses in the asteroid belt and are prepping for their first journey beyond the orbit of the planet Jean.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Heh.:smallamused:Maybe terrans are peaceful because the stuff they build creates death rays as a byproduct.
Imagine what woulds happen if they build something that creates them deliberately...:smalleek:
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
It strongly reminds me of Larry Niven's Known Space universe, where humans at one point abolish war and all but eradicate violence, and experience a golden age of peace...until a warlike alien species comes calling, and then it turns out humanity's peaceful spaceships accidentally carry terrible weapons:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Warriors
The other ship began to turn away from its tormentor. Its drive end glowed red.
"They're trying to get away," the Captain said, as the glowing end swung toward them. "Are you sure they can't?"
"Yes, sir. That light drive won't take them anywhere."
The Captain purred thoughtfully. "What would happen if the light hit our ship?"
"Just a bright light, I think. The lens is flat, so it must be emitting a very wide beam. They'd need a parabolic reflector to be dangerous. Unless—" His ears went straight up.
"Unless what?" The Captain spoke softly, demandingly.
"A laser. But that's all right, sir. They don't have any weapons."
The Captain sprang at the control board. "Stupid!" he spat. "They don't know weapons from sthondat blood. Weapons Officer! How could a telepath find out what they don't know? WEAPONS OFFICER!"
"Here, sir."
"Burn—"
An awful light shone in the control dome. The Captain burst into flame, then blew out as the air left through a glowing split in the dome.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Now that you mention it, Freefall does have a certain Larry Niven feel to it. And somehow, that story is the only one I remember of Larry Niven. Well, I remember the plot of The Ringworld Throne or maybe The Ringworld Engineers, but I mostly found those books a little confusing.
What surprises me is that Sam thinks humans are peaceful. How many times have people formed an angry mob with the intent of stringing Sam up without his pressure suit?
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
But that's part of the traditional fun and games on his homeworld. So it's not a threat, just a ritual. Besides, the whole thing ends with ice cream.
This comic, oddly enough, is generally good about giving you a chance to look at some of the issues involved in sci-fi tropes. I hadn't given much thought to how sending most of your colonists as embryos (or genetic colonists in Freefall parlance) would effect society.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rogar Demonblud
This comic, oddly enough, is generally good about giving you a chance to look at some of the issues involved in sci-fi tropes. I hadn't given much thought to how sending most of your colonists as embryos (or genetic colonists in Freefall parlance) would effect society.
Part of why I like Freefall is its tendency to slip in social commentary and sci-fi navel gazing and still be consistently funny.
I was re-reading the early strips, and holy wow batman was Sam a lot less likeable. Maybe the right word is "maliciously incompetent". I know a lot of it is done for laughs, but I am still a little surprised that Florence didn't get seriously hurt until the hurricane.
Edit: I think this strip might be where Sam goes from being a zany and idiotic villain to just being zany and idiotic.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
The hard thing to remember with Sam is that he is not a human, does not think like one and has a cultural value system that is at right angles to ours. It just takes a while at the beginning for that to become clear.
I have a standing bet with one of my fellow geeks that Sam will be dead by the time this strip has had a year pass in-continuity. Of course, considering the speed of the plot, neither of us may be alive to have that dinner.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rogar Demonblud
The hard thing to remember with Sam is that he is not a human, does not think like one and has a cultural value system that is at right angles to ours. It just takes a while at the beginning for that to become clear.
I have a standing bet with one of my fellow geeks that Sam will be dead by the time this strip has had a year pass in-continuity. Of course, considering the speed of the plot, neither of us may be alive to have that dinner.
To be clear, are you betting that Sam will survive, or that Sam will auto-darwinate before the year is out? I mean we have already seen an entire month pass, haven't we?
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
Rockphed
Now that you mention it, Freefall does have a certain Larry Niven feel to it. And somehow, that story is the only one I remember of Larry Niven. Well, I remember the plot of The Ringworld Throne or maybe The Ringworld Engineers, but I mostly found those books a little confusing.
When did you read them (how old were you at the time)?
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What surprises me is that Sam thinks humans are peaceful. How many times have people formed an angry mob with the intent of stringing Sam up without his pressure suit?
The way that Sam runs around in society, clearly as a member of society (the store clerk might keep themselves between him and the register, but he's not treated like a wild animal had just entered the premises, much less like a serious threat), indicate to me that he's widely regarded as a nuisance character more than anything else. The ease at which angry mobs form indicate to me that the citizens of Jean are profoundly bored people. The whole comic has a bit of a Mayberry feel to it -- all the stakes are small and the crooks are no real threat and everyone ends up with ice cream... right up until the wolf engineer reminds everyone that they are using nuclear power and trusting a few millimeters of metal to protect them from the pitiless deadliness of space or the incompetent CEO tries attempts AI genocide.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
We know the AI got built-in violence inhibition. Maybe the colonists were brainwashed similarly. I'm sure the mayor/governor would like nothing better.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
guttering flame
We know the AI got built-in violence inhibition. Maybe the colonists were brainwashed similarly. I'm sure the mayor/governor would like nothing better.
I suspect it might also be cultural. They are on a just-recently really good at supporting life, and otherwise have been in a spacefaring culture where even a little violence could doom everyone (the old bullet hole in a space ship issue, or just plain 'you killed the only guy who knew how to...' scenario).
There's some sizable thought that the only way to get off this rockball we currently reside on is to become better at cooperation. I don't know if I buy it, but I can see the author putting it in their comic easily.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
Rockphed
To be clear, are you betting that Sam will survive, or that Sam will auto-darwinate before the year is out? I mean we have already seen an entire month pass, haven't we?
My bet is a half-rack of ribs if Sam gets killed. And yes, we've had about five weeks pass in a strip that's been running for-----what, seven years?
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
Rogar Demonblud
My bet is a half-rack of ribs if Sam gets killed. And yes, we've had about five weeks pass in a strip that's been running for-----what, seven years?
Yes, if you mean seven-teen. This thread led me to reading the whole darn thing and took two whole vacation days. One April Fools' Day strip didn't load, but maybe that was intentional.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
That long? Okay, at that rate of progress we should reach the end of the year about 2175 or so. No way I have to pay out on that prime rib, but if Sam kicks early I can still collect my ribs. Odds are even more in my favor.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Freefall is over 20 years old. The first item in the index is
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The adventure begins! 4/9/1998
And I expect the trip out to an asteroid to be time compressed. There are only so many hijinks Sam can get up to mid voyage without earning a mauling.
At least they are going to leave the fluffy piranha at home. I think Winston bringing his dog would doom Sam.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
As a point of comparison, Freefall is older than I am.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Oh man, Niven, Pournelle, and Heinlein, all in one update, haha. (Although air not being free is a much more generic reference these days, I suppose.) Transfer station definitely makes me think of jump points in Mote in God's Eye, but I haven't read the other Niven/Pournelle collaboration/s so I don't know if there's a more specific referent.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
Rogar Demonblud
we've had about five weeks pass in a strip
The events in the whole strip have happened in just 29 days.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
hajo
The events in the whole strip have happened in just
29 days.
He has 2 "Day 29"s on there. I assume that the second is supposed to be "Day 30". Wow, I would have pegged at least 6 weeks as having passed.
Edit: I forgot to answer this.
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Originally Posted by
Willie the Duck
When did you read them (how old were you at the time)?
I think I was in my mid to late teens (so 16 - 18). I also never read Ringworld, so I might have missed the most important one.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rogar Demonblud
Her ideas sound great but are they at all practical? The initial investment in time, resources and man/robotpower is vast. Where would she get it?
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
guttering flame
Her ideas sound great but are they at all practical? The initial investment in time, resources and man/robotpower is vast. Where would she get it?
Well, she did just save every robot on the planet from drooling-idiotdom. At the same time, I am fairly certain that the energy required to move that much dust into a new solar-system is prohibitive. That is even assuming that those dust levels are even close to accurate. I suspect that the dust between us and Alpha Centauri wouldn't be enough to form a red dwarf, much less a new sun, but then I am a pessimist.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
Rockphed
Well, she did just save every robot on the planet from drooling-idiotdom. At the same time, I am fairly certain that the energy required to move that much dust into a new solar-system is prohibitive. That is even assuming that those dust levels are even close to accurate. I suspect that the dust between us and Alpha Centauri wouldn't be enough to form a red dwarf, much less a new sun, but then I am a pessimist.
So a couple of million willing robot hands can give a helping hand on their spare time when they're not helping keep up their planet's economy and human happiness. That's a drop in the ocean of resources that's needed for this. Timewise the project probably take aeons if we're very generous. I don't see the mayor and all the other planets in the area giving their resources for this.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
I feel that Florence is talking more pie in the sky, long term. Kind of like when she was talking about the more efficient use of suns would be to disassemble them and use them as power plant fuel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rockphed
Well, she did just save every robot on the planet from drooling-idiotdom. At the same time, I am fairly certain that the energy required to move that much dust into a new solar-system is prohibitive. That is even assuming that those dust levels are even close to accurate. I suspect that the dust between us and Alpha Centauri wouldn't be enough to form a red dwarf, much less a new sun, but then I am a pessimist.
How to capture interstellar particles is indeed the problem. How much dust is between us and Alpha Centauri depends on what you mean by between (how wide a cylinder you are drawing), but of course the wider you draw it, the harder it is to grab the stuff at the far reaches.
Not for building stars, but merely for travel, the concept was conceived of as Bussard Ramjets, which would be fusion rockets, which would use these magnetic collectors to pull in hydrogen to use as fuel. The feasibility of such things are stymied by the fact Sol sits in a low-density pocket of the galaxy, and because we haven't really perfected man-made fusion to be that super energy source we'd hoped it would be yet.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
halfeye
Nice Niven joke.
I wonder what the Kzinti would think of Sam Starfall. They would probably decide that his species was delicious and go about figuring out how to farm them.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
Rockphed
I wonder what the Kzinti would think of Sam Starfall. They would probably decide that his species was delicious and go about figuring out how to farm them.
New intelligence test (by the Black Priests) for female cubs --realizing what a horrible idea that is. :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
Willie the Duck
New intelligence test (by the Black Priests) for female cubs --realizing what a horrible idea that is. :smallbiggrin:
Better or worse idea than smuggling mini-moties out of the Mote system to sell as pets?
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rockphed
Better or worse idea than smuggling mini-moties out of the Mote system to sell as pets?
That's a little like asking if it's better to give your children a cougar or hyena for Christmas -- 'Who cares? They're both terrible ideas!'
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
I occasionally see a meme that Earth is a death-world. Frankly, I would like to see it get more traction in media.
The only one I can think of is a book by Allen Dean Foster (I think) about warring space alliances where humans are essentially supermen. We are stronger, faster, and better at the whole "fight people" thing. Pretty much every other book either has Earth as a fairly typical world, or has Earth as a garden world.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
In other words, the old line about how we nailed our god to a tree, so don't screw with us?
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Saberhagen's Berserker novels sort of go this route; we humans get turned.. or maybe 'nudged'.. into being Berserker-killers by another alien species, because we're really good at it.
There's also a bit in one of Harrison's Bil the Galactic Hero novels where the eponymous fellow ends up on a robot-inhabited planet where water is considered a deadly poison.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rockphed
I occasionally see a meme that Earth is a death-world. Frankly, I would like to see it get more traction in media.
The only one I can think of is a book by Allen Dean Foster (I think) about warring space alliances where humans are essentially supermen. We are stronger, faster, and better at the whole "fight people" thing. Pretty much every other book either has Earth as a fairly typical world, or has Earth as a garden world.
There are a whole bunch online under the heading Humanity F*** Yeah.
The Deathworlders is the main one, currently 51 plus (there is at least one multi-page chapter, I don't remember whether there are more) pages, each page about 2-3 hours of reading. I have the current page bookmarked but there's no obvious way from there to the first page.
There are these two in the same setting by different authors, currently on hiatus for at least six months, I don't remember the last time either posted, but they are a decent length per page, but nothing like as long per page as the main one:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/wiki/series/salvage
https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/wiki/se...make_good_pets
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
halfeye
There are a whole bunch online under the heading Humanity F*** Yeah.
The Deathworlders is the main one, currently 51 plus ..
there's no obvious way from there to the first page.
See jenkinsverse - essential_reading_order.
It's a nice scenario, but all the aliens seem to not use robots and automation right, considering that they already have good computers, sensors and software.
I.e. why use weak soldiers, when you could use robots and/or automated stationary guns (eg. repelling boarders/pirates) ?
Also, most military types come across as fairly boneheaded :smallannoyed:
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
hajo
Thanks for that. It probably means some sleepless nights getting through at a minimum the ones I don't recognise on (re)reading.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hajo
It's a nice scenario, but all the aliens seem to not use robots and automation right, considering that they already have good computers, sensors and software.
I.e. why use weak soldiers, when you could use robots and/or automated stationary guns (eg. repelling boarders/pirates) ?
Also, most military types come across as fairly boneheaded :smallannoyed:
Those two thoughts may be related.:smallwink:
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
And now Niomi reminds us that economics still exists in a world bordering on post-scarcity. And that there are certain drawbacks to being a canoid.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
I thought they were trying to avoid a race of fluffy space piranha by leaving the animated dust-mop with Niomi's children.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rockphed
I thought they were trying to avoid a race of fluffy space piranha by leaving the animated dust-mop with Niomi's children.
Apparently Sam doesn't know that.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Yup. He just knows that every time the fuzzball gets within lunging distance of him, he's a chew toy.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
I'm loving the montage.
Relatedly*, is this the fastest the comic has ever moved? Or rather, I suppose what I'm after is what is the highest number of strips it has taken Freefall to cover 24 hours?
Grey Wolf
*The browser dictionary keeps putting a squiggly red line under "Relatedly". Is it not a word?
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
Grey_Wolf_c
*The browser dictionary keeps putting a squiggly red line under "Relatedly". Is it not a word?
Dictionaries are limited. Some miss some words entirely, some miss sufficiently compounded words. The Oxford English Dictionary is some large (double digit?) number of volumes, I have a copy of the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary, it's two chunky volumes and it's been steadily going out of date since I bought it many, many years ago.
Someday every dictionary will be unified, and all out of date at once.
"Relatedly" looks like a word to me, and that's about as good as it gets (I know that's pretty bad, I don't think it gets any better if you dig deeper).
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grey_Wolf_c
I'm loving the montage.
Relatedly*, is this the fastest the comic has ever moved? Or rather, I suppose what I'm after is what is the highest number of strips it has taken Freefall to cover 24 hours?
Grey Wolf
*The browser dictionary keeps putting a squiggly red line under "Relatedly". Is it not a word?
Yes, relatedly is a word. Most spellcheckers only hold 30-35% of the words in the English language, so they're pretty useless if you actually have a high school level vocabulary.
As for what's the longest day, we don't know. First, time is often not properly sign posted in comic. Second, most people can't count that high. I think the whole trial day arc was about 400, though.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
Rogar Demonblud
Most spellcheckers only hold 30-35% of the words in the English language, so they're pretty useless if you actually have a high school level vocabulary.
Nobody's a prefect typist; it helps to have something that can catch typos.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rogar Demonblud
Yes, relatedly is a word. Most spellcheckers only hold 30-35% of the words in the English language, so they're pretty useless if you actually have a high school level vocabulary.
I have a ESL vocabulary instead, and I find them to be exceedingly useful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SZbNAhL
Nobody's a prefect typist; it helps to have something that can catch typos.
Indeed. Also, I'm guessing you did that on purpose?
Grey Wolf
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grey_Wolf_c
Or rather, I suppose what I'm after is what is the highest number of strips it has taken Freefall to cover 24 hours?
According to the author's posted timeline...day 24 spanned 2282 to 2676; making a total of 395 strips.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grey_Wolf_c
Indeed. Also, I'm guessing you did that on purpose?
Grey Wolf
It was origninally a real typo, but I noticed and intentionally didn't correct it because it was too good a chance to pass up.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rogar Demonblud
Yes, relatedly is a word. Most spellcheckers only hold 30-35% of the words in the English language, so they're pretty useless if you actually have a high school level vocabulary.
Most of the words in the English language aren't used by most English speakers. I remember hearing that there were a million words in English a long time ago. It must have been twenty years or more, it could be fourty, by now that could easily have doubled. The vocabulary of the average native English speaker is something like 20,000 words, really clever people more than double that, but it's almost nothing to a million words.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Wow, something Terran that Sam doesn't (yet) find scary.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
TaRix
Wow, something Terran that Sam doesn't (yet) find scary.
It actually makes sense. The very reason that capsaicin exists is so that most animals will not eat peppers, but birds (who have no receptors for it, and btw also distribute seeds more distantly, given that they fly) will eat them. It makes sense that a non-terran would not either.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
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Originally Posted by
Willie the Duck
It actually makes sense. The very reason that capsaicin exists is so that most animals will not eat peppers, but birds (who have no receptors for it, and btw also distribute seeds more distantly, given that they fly) will eat them. It makes sense that a non-terran would not either.
There are several "Hot" tastes that don't involve capsaicin at all (Horse radish, radish, mustard, black/white pepper, ginger (for all I know there may be hundreds)). I'd like to see the hottest possible scoville zero sauce, I would bet (and I generally don't bet) that it's pretty freaking hot.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Quote:
Originally Posted by
halfeye
There are several "Hot" tastes that don't involve capsaicin at all (Horse radish, radish, mustard, black/white pepper, ginger (for all I know there may be hundreds)). I'd like to see the hottest possible scoville zero sauce, I would bet (and I generally don't bet) that it's pretty freaking hot.
I could not find exact numebers for the food products, but at least for the capsaicinoids family of substances there is a nice table on Wikipedia. Anything above capsaicine is a neurotoxine. Frankly so is the capsaicine
The way the Scoville scale is defined, it could easily be used for any hot food product as long as the extraction process has the same efficiency, which might be an issue. The best I found is this article which has a nice list of different spicy substances, but there was no universal test done to compare them unfortunately.
Quick browsing of scientific papers on pungency scales reveals that there are various tests and scales developed but one would need to dig deeper to find some comparative studies of different substances.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Sam learns an important lesson in delayed gratification, but misapplies it. Also, notice nobody is sitting close enough to allow him to steal test answers.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
Aww, the dust mop has a Sam Starfall squeeky toy. I'm guessing those are popular, Sam being Sam. Too bad he didn't license his likeness.
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You know, I didn't notice the Sam Starfall squeaky toy. That is a cool detail.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
About the only good thing to having read Erfworld for a while is that I look for visual jokes now.
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Re: Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts
And speaking of visual jokes and in-references, the April Fools Day strip is up.