Mordenkainen's Tome: what monsters are in it?

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Originally Posted by Millstone85

We do get a tease on the day proper, though.

Githyanki versus githzerai, it seems.

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Indeed, indeed.

Expect gish vs monk

The third Mayhem confirmed the drow matron mother, putting her against a nightwalker. She summoned a retriever, while her opponent got help from an allip.

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Originally Posted by Millstone85

The third Mayhem confirmed the drow matron mother, putting her against a nightwalker. She summoned a retriever, while her opponent got help from an allip.

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Wait wait wait Nightwalker? Damn straight. I was hoping for the Nightshades to get in. Also nice to see the Allip, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Millstone85

The third Mayhem confirmed the drow matron mother, putting her against a nightwalker. She summoned a retriever, while her opponent got help from an allip.

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I'm really beginning to think they're cheating to make the one most likely to win lose.

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Originally Posted by Millstone85

The third Mayhem confirmed the drow matron mother, putting her against a nightwalker. She summoned a retriever, while her opponent got help from an allip.

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We get Nightwalkers? Excellent!

Do you think we'll get the other Nightshades, then? Nightwalker was actually weaker than some of the others.

And I guess an even higher-powered drow is nice as well. Though "matron mother" is one of the wussiest possible names they could have given it. I know it makes sense with the matriarchal drow theme, but I can't hear the word "matrom mother" without thinking of a dumpy, middle-aged, pregnant drow with one of those idiotic 1800s bonnets.

I think I've got a problem (like I didn't already know that).

Updating with latest 4 monsters. I totally must have slept through Easter Monday because I missed the last mayhem battle entirely. It didn't even occur to me it would be on.

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Originally Posted by Beechgnome

Updating with latest 4 monsters. I totally must have slept through Easter Monday because I missed the last mayhem battle entirely. It didn't even occur to me it would be on.

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Same. I learned of it when it appeared in my Youtube recommendations.

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Originally Posted by Unoriginal

I'm really beginning to think they're cheating to make the one most likely to win lose.

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Even if they aren't, there is definitely too much mayhem in Mordenkainen's Mayhem. The matron mother manages to banish the nightwalker, only temporarily as the fight is taking place on the Shadowfell, and an angel randomly takes its place while it is away. Just why? It is not to keep the fight going, as the allip is still here. It is not to showcase a new type of angel, as it is a planetar.

I am also disappointed that they went with "Underdark versus Undead". That's not thematic. It is barely a pun.

Will you be making more threads to analyse the fights, or does it feel pointless now?

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Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon

Wait wait wait Nightwalker? Damn straight. I was hoping for the Nightshades to get in. Also nice to see the Allip, I guess.

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Originally Posted by the_brazenburn

We get Nightwalkers? Excellent!

Do you think we'll get the other Nightshades, then? Nightwalker was actually weaker than some of the others.

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I don't really know nightshades, so all I can say is that the art for the nightwalker is really good.

And the allip is like an even more tortured ghost than the specter? Is that it?

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Originally Posted by the_brazenburn

And I guess an even higher-powered drow is nice as well. Though "matron mother" is one of the wussiest possible names they could have given it. I know it makes sense with the matriarchal drow theme, but I can't hear the word "matrom mother" without thinking of a dumpy, middle-aged, pregnant drow with one of those idiotic 1800s bonnets.

I think I've got a problem (like I didn't already know that).

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I am not a native English speaker, but the first thing I thought of when I read "matron" was the French word "maton", which is slang for jailer. Wiktionary tells me that it matches one of the meanings of matron.

So, it doesn't evoke such a kind figure to me.

The art is pretty pink, though.

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Originally Posted by Millstone85

Even if they aren't, there is definitely too much mayhem in Mordenkainen's Mayhem. The matron mother manages to banish the nightwalker, only temporarily as the fight is taking place on the Shadowfell, and an angel randomly takes its place while it is away. Just why? It is not to keep the fight going, as the allip is still here. It is not to showcase a new type of angel, as it is a planetar.

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Yeah, it's all incredibly pointless. The pattern seems to be "one side clearly dominate the fight, then get their face caved in by the DM intervention, and then lose".

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Originally Posted by Millstone85

Will you be making more threads to analyse the fights, or does it feel pointless now?

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Feel kinda pointless, yeah. I appreciate the preview in the monstes' stat we can get, but the battle itself doesn't matter much. Maybe they'll do better next time, but...

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Originally Posted by Millstone85

I am not a native English speaker, but the first thing I thought of when I read "matron" was the French word "maton", which is slang for jailer. Wiktionary tells me that it matches one of the meanings of matron.

So, it doesn't evoke such a kind figure to me.

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As a French native speaker, "matron" always evoke more the kind of tyrannical caretaker you'd see in a story to demonstrate how much the orphanage sucks or as the "evil governess too strict with the kids"

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Originally Posted by Millstone85

The art is pretty pink, though.

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After decades, a RPG company finally realized you could make a drow woman look powerful and sexy without revealing clothes in black and purple.

That being said, it's true the Matron Mother is the pinkest of all the land. She makes it work extremely well, though.

Just watched the newest D&D fireside chat where Kate Welch showed off her favorite creature from Mordenkainen's Tome- the Grey Render! It's a Chaotic Neutral CR-12 Large Monstrosity. On the next page over you can catch a quick glimpse of some githzerai, including the Githzerai Anarch and art for another one we haven't seen yet. The close up was too blurry to make out any details about the Gith, but we get a pretty good look at the Grey Render. It has multi-attack claw and bite, as well as a reaction called Bloody Rampage. In its description is a table called "Grey Render Quirks", where you can roll a d12 to determine quirks like "Whines piteously in the dark" or "Likes to snuggle". Apparently they are very attached to their master.

I remember these guys from 3rd edition, and they were pretty neat. They were very protective of seemingly random places or people. One of them also featured in Critical Role.

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Originally Posted by Falren

Just watched the newest D&D fireside chat where Kate Welch showed off her favorite creature from Mordenkainen's Tome- the Grey Render! It's a Chaotic Neutral CR-12 Large Monstrosity. On the next page over you can catch a quick glimpse of some githzerai, including the Githzerai Anarch and art for another one we haven't seen yet. The close up was too blurry to make out any details about the Gith, but we get a pretty good look at the Grey Render. It has multi-attack claw and bite, as well as a reaction called Bloody Rampage. In its description is a table called "Grey Render Quirks", where you can roll a d12 to determine quirks like "Whines piteously in the dark" or "Likes to snuggle". Apparently they are very attached to their master.

I remember these guys from 3rd edition, and they were pretty neat. They were very protective of seemingly random places or people. One of them also featured in Critical Role.

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Seriously? Grey Renders were awesome!

I do think that they should be monstrosities in 5e, rather than aberrations, but that's just me.

And that quirks table sounds interesting. Do you have a screenshot of it somewhere, or at least a link to the video?

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Originally Posted by the_brazenburn

I do think that they should be monstrosities in 5e, rather than aberrations, but that's just me.

And that quirks table sounds interesting. Do you have a screenshot of it somewhere, or at least a link to the video?

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This is a new account so I can't post links yet, but the video was "Fireside Chat with Nathan Stewart & Kate Welch". As of the time of this posting it was the most recent video on the dnd youtube channel.

Also, when were they abberations? I'm looking at the 3rd edition monster manual and it's listed as a beast.

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Originally Posted by Falren

Also, when were they abberations? I'm looking at the 3rd edition monster manual and it's listed as a beast.

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Sorry. I misread your post.

That was embarrassing. Do know the approximate CR?

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Originally Posted by the_brazenburn

Sorry. I misread your post.

That was embarrassing. Do know the approximate CR?

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Originally Posted by Falren

Just watched the newest D&D fireside chat where Kate Welch showed off her favorite creature from Mordenkainen's Tome- the Grey Render! It's a Chaotic Neutral CR-12 Large Monstrosity. On the next page over you can catch a quick glimpse of some githzerai, including the Githzerai Anarch and art for another one we haven't seen yet. The close up was too blurry to make out any details about the Gith, but we get a pretty good look at the Grey Render. It has multi-attack claw and bite, as well as a reaction called Bloody Rampage. In its description is a table called "Grey Render Quirks", where you can roll a d12 to determine quirks like "Whines piteously in the dark" or "Likes to snuggle". Apparently they are very attached to their master.

I remember these guys from 3rd edition, and they were pretty neat. They were very protective of seemingly random places or people. One of them also featured in Critical Role.

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Early morning, eh? :smallwink:

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Originally Posted by Millstone85

Zelekhut
Pursues fugitives from justice. I fear that one migth invite derision. Oaths and pacts can be played as having mystical weight, but when the baron of Pravoka puts an arrest warrant on you and suddenly a winged mechanical centaur appears from Mechanus to catch you... I don't know, maybe it is the power of nobility, or the spirit of a nation, directing this hunter on you?

I am trying to think of a shadowfell creature with the beast type, but I got nothing.

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I think its cosmic justice. Like you murder Baron von Parkova's whole family, you get an bounty hunters after you, come back murder the Baron and then declare yourself (or are perhaps declared) ruler of Parkova thus forever avoiding justice. I think it takes a pretty heavy load of avoiding justice to get a zelekhut to chase you.

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Originally Posted by Falren

Just watched the newest D&D fireside chat where Kate Welch showed off her favorite creature from Mordenkainen's Tome- the Grey Render! It's a Chaotic Neutral CR-12 Large Monstrosity. On the next page over you can catch a quick glimpse of some githzerai, including the Githzerai Anarch and art for another one we haven't seen yet. The close up was too blurry to make out any details about the Gith, but we get a pretty good look at the Grey Render. It has multi-attack claw and bite, as well as a reaction called Bloody Rampage. In its description is a table called "Grey Render Quirks", where you can roll a d12 to determine quirks like "Whines piteously in the dark" or "Likes to snuggle". Apparently they are very attached to their master.

I remember these guys from 3rd edition, and they were pretty neat. They were very protective of seemingly random places or people. One of them also featured in Critical Role.

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Thanks. Missed this and will add.

New Mordenkainen's Mayhem! Astral Dreadnaught versus the Leviathan. The Astral Dreadnaught is the same as always- a titanic astral monstrosity with a small dimension in it's pocket. The Leviathan is a serpent-shaped elder elemental of water. The Leviathan had some awesome art.

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Originally Posted by Falren

New Mordenkainen's Mayhem! Astral Dreadnaught versus the Leviathan. The Astral Dreadnaught is the same as always- a titanic astral monstrosity with a small dimension in it's pocket. The Leviathan is a serpent-shaped elder elemental of water. The Leviathan had some awesome art.

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While I don't know the specifics, it seems that a Leviathan could work as a substitute for Iku-Turso in a campaign that draws heavily upon Kalevala epos.

Other artworks of the Astral Dreadnought I've seen could make it look scary, but more in a "oh ****, a huge alien is after me" way.

This one, though? It manages to make the creature downright sinister.

Now this is a being that makes you understand why it has "dread" in its name.

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Originally Posted by Falren

New Mordenkainen's Mayhem! Astral Dreadnaught versus the Leviathan. The Astral Dreadnaught is the same as always- a titanic astral monstrosity with a small dimension in it's pocket. The Leviathan is a serpent-shaped elder elemental of water. The Leviathan had some awesome art.

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Wasn't the leviathan an Elder Evil back in 3.5?

You know, until now I've found everything about this book fairly underwhelming, but these guys look pretty sweet.

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Originally Posted by Regitnui

Wasn't the leviathan an Elder Evil back in 3.5?

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I believe it changed in 4e, in which the term "celestial" just meant "inhabitant of the Astral Sea" and carried no alignment implications. I could easily be mistaken, though.

Well, having now watched the fourth Mayhem, I have to say: it's such bull****.

I don't even believe it's staged by the players, I think the DM just outlandishly decides one side is going to win and grossly advantage the side he favors.

It's four times in four fights that it has turned into player vs player + DM. Arguably 3 times if you consider that the Mind Flayer in the second match attacked everyone.

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Originally Posted by Unoriginal

Well, having now watched the fourth Mayhem, I have to say: it's such bull****.

I don't even believe it's staged by the players, I think the DM just outlandishly decides one side is going to win and grossly advantage the side he favors.

It's four times in four fights that it has turned into player vs player + DM. Arguably 3 times if you consider that the Mind Flayer in the second match attacked everyone.

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Everybody agrees that the videos are crap. I do think it's good that they stage them, if just so we can see the new monsters in play.

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Originally Posted by EvilAnagram

4e, in which the term "celestial" just meant "inhabitant of the Astral Sea" and carried no alignment implications. I could easily be mistaken, though.

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The term was "immortal". And an interesting quirk of 4e is that while devils were immortals, demons were elementals.

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Originally Posted by the_brazenburn

Everybody agrees that the videos are crap. I do think it's good that they stage them, if just so we can see the new monsters in play.

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I'd rather see the new monsters in actual play.

The monsters are awesome, that is obvious, but I can only take so many smug declarations that one combatant is getting hit by a "totally fair" intervention from the DM, with said DM looking annoyed any time his monsters don't hurt the combatant as badly as he wished to.

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Originally Posted by Millstone85

The term was "immortal". And an interesting quirk of 4e is that while devils were immortals, demons were elementals.

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Yeah, they did learn pretty hard into Law v. Chaos in 4th, with those sides representing the amoral extremes.

Really looks like they have decided it's time to flesh out the higher level game.

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Originally Posted by Sigreid

Really looks like they have decided it's time to flesh out the higher level game.

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I'd say that's a good thing. Low-level campaigns are all very well, but sometimes you want to be really, really heroic.

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Originally Posted by the_brazenburn

I'd say that's a good thing. Low-level campaigns are all very well, but sometimes you want to be really, really heroic.

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Agreed. I wish there were official adventures that would start from a much higher level than 1st through 3rd. Like, something that would actually start from 10th level and up. If only to let more players experience the end game more reliably.

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Originally Posted by Arkhios

Agreed. I wish there were official adventures that would start from a much higher level than 1st through 3rd. Like, something that would actually start from 10th level and up. If only to let more players experience the end game more reliably.

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I hear you, brother.

If we want to do a high-level campaign, we need to homebrew our own, and balance at the high levels is tricky. Without much guidance from WotC (Crawford said somewhere that they don't take the high levels into account for playtesting), we're pretty much stuck.

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Originally Posted by the_brazenburn

I hear you, brother.

If we want to do a high-level campaign, we need to homebrew our own, and balance at the high levels is tricky. Without much guidance from WotC (Crawford said somewhere that they don't take the high levels into account for playtesting), we're pretty much stuck.

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Indeed. I was pretty ecstatic when I finally finished my first real Adventure Path back in Pathfinder, with our characters at 17th level by the end of it. Still, not the same as being at 20th level, but it was higher than ever before, and it was amazing feeling. It's really a shame that so many adventures end earlier than that.