[4e] PC Prisons

This came up pre-4e release, and reading the rules, I'm thinking it'll be very easy in 4e. Get a level 5 expert, some magic chalk, and use the Magic Circle ritual. With:

Skill Training (+5 Arcana)
Skill Focus (+3 Arcana)
Eladrin (+2 Arcana)
Aid Anotherx4 (+8 Arcana)
High Intelligence (+5ish Arcana)
Level bonus (+2 Arcana)

It's easy to build a prison for any character up to level 15. Characters up to level 33 might needs a few concentric circles till the NPC rolls a 20. To capture a whole party, place all the Fey PCs in one circle, and all the Natural PCs in another. The expert doesn't even need the Ritual Casting feat if she uses a scroll.

What's a "Level Five Expert" citizen?

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Originally Posted by Dan_Hemmens

What's a "Level Five Expert" citizen?

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DM fiat. Level five eladrin wizard if you'd prefer.

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Originally Posted by MartinHarper

DM fiat. Level five eladrin wizard if you'd prefer.

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Thing is a "level 5 Eladrin Wizard" is a Heroic-tier character, they shouldn't be *that* common.

I'd also point out you have to keep the PCs restrained for an hour while you cast the damned thing.

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Originally Posted by Dan_Hemmens

Thing is a "level 5 Eladrin Wizard" is a Heroic-tier character, they shouldn't be *that* common.

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Fair point.
Solution: Level 4 Human Mage from the Monster Manual. +11 Arcana.
Five Human Mages can reliably cage a 10th level PC, and possibly cage a 30th level PC.

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Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Fair point.
Solution: Level 4 Human Mage from the Monster Manual. +11 Arcana.
Five Human Mages can reliably cage a 10th level PC, and possibly cage a 30th level PC.

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But only if they can get them to stand still for an hour...

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Originally Posted by Dan_Hemmens

But only if they can get them to stand still for an hour...

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Correct.
Is this a problem?

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Originally Posted by MartinHarper

Correct.
Is this a problem?

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Can be, I'd imagine. Particularly if you're looking at high levels.

It shouldn't be that hard to drug even high-level characters into sleep for an hour, but I don't remember 4ed rules on poisons right now.

Rather than getting them to stand still for an hour, getting them to lie still for an hour would be easier... ah, the beauty of unconsciousness.

If you can't get them to sit still for an hour, you shouldn't be trying to throw them in prison anyways.

Drugs, sleep spells, unconsciousness, breaking into their room in the inn at night, telling them its a magical buff, tying them up, there are all sorts of ways to get PCs to sit still.

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Originally Posted by M0rt

It shouldn't be that hard to drug even high-level characters into sleep for an hour, but I don't remember 4ed rules on poisons right now.

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Yes, but if they're drugged and unconscious, their enemies have already won. The enemies could easily kill them, or drag them into a physical prison...or, as Martin points out, craft a magical prison for them.

I just don't see why this is surprising or problematic.

It's surprising because everyone assumed that without verbal or somatic components, keeping higher level PCs (or any Eladrin) in prison would be very difficult, without removing any of their person rights, such as using a permanent blindfold. Magic Circle is a very simple, quaint way of dealing with this.

I like it.

Seems like a perfectly appropriate use of the ritual. Bind 'em with magic.

Have the character take 20: voilà, efficient imprisonment for up to level 30 (assuming the bonuses in the first post). Or course, the party wizard will probably know Dispel Magic by then, which I think works against rituals... maybe.

Just build a round room, have the "expert" NPC mark a more-or-less permanent Magic Circle around the outside wall, then toss the PC's in. The expert is explained away as a specialist who travels around creating such prisons, so you don't need a bunch of them running around the world. Of course, you need to decide how the villagers deal with the PC's when they need to remove them from the prison...

You can't take 20 on rituals.

Dispel Magic (Utility 6) doesn't work against Magic Circle, because:
a) Magic Circle doesn't create a Conjuration or Zone.
b) "An affected creature ... cannot affect the boundary in any way".

1) Poisons, Drugs ect, would never keep anyone unconscious for an hour, not even a level 1 commoner. Because they are all "(save ends)."

2) The point is that in 3.5, you literally couldn't imprison a character of a high enough level without some sort of permanent anti-magic field (which there is no way to do in the rules.) Not to mention that you could build a character that could literally break a 5ft wall in 3 seconds with no items.

Add in the practicality of people not all being high level, and so it makes no sense for most cities to put that much work into a prison, and you had no way for most prisons to be anything more then symbolic when it came to PCs.

However, in 4E a level 6 Commoner could actually go ahead and imprison forever any level 30 character that consents to wait inside a small room for a couple hours "for the king to see you." Since you could then Magic Circle the room.

So you could have level 30 character trapped for all eternity inside circles, just waiting for someone to come along and destroy the roof above the circle so that it can rain so that they can escape the circle.

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Originally Posted by Frost

So you could have level 30 character trapped for all eternity inside circles, just waiting for someone to come along and destroy the roof above the circle so that it can rain so that they can escape the circle.

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That about sums it up. If it's a bad guy who's trapped, well their sudden release after many years of magic prision just made a good adventure, if not a campaign, and if the PCs are trapped the plot will find a way to help them get free sooner or later.

Is Magic Circle's effect an infinitely tall cylinder?

If not, you can always just teleport straight up and be free.

In fact, wouldn't teleportation work in any direction? You don't actually "pass the boundary" if you teleport from inside to outside or vice versa, IIRC.

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Originally Posted by JaxGaret

In fact, wouldn't teleportation work in any direction?

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General teleportation rules says "creatures, objects, and terrain between you and your destination don't hinder your movement in any way". I've no idea if the specific Magic Circle rules overrides that or not.

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Originally Posted by MartinHarper

General teleportation rules says "creatures, objects, and terrain between you and your destination don't hinder your movement in any way". I've no idea if the specific Magic Circle rules overrides that or not.

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Also of note is that a magical effect is not necessarily a creature, object, or terrain.

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Originally Posted by MartinHarper

General teleportation rules says "creatures, objects, and terrain between you and your destination don't hinder your movement in any way". I've no idea if the specific Magic Circle rules overrides that or not.

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What if you put forbiddence on the outside of the circle?
You can't teleport into Forbiddence.

Drawback Fb is level based not arcana based like Magic Circle. So it won't deter every PC at all levels. Not like every NPC that does prisons will be Epic.

There is no ritual that acts like Forbiddence but specifically blocks teleporting out only in.

You'd think escaping would be important counter measure for areas (Magic Circle seems to work for those trapped within).

Actually, it's quite easy to stop teleportation escapes in 4E. You need:
A windowless cell (air shafts are fine, if you can't see outside through them), where the corridor leading to it is narrow, and (for holding Level 10+ Warlocks) the area within 30' of the cell is all narrow corridors or solid ground/wall.

That's it. All teleportation (except Warlock's Leap) requires LoS, and no teleportation can put you in a place where you're squeezing. The only exceptions are rituals, and you need components for those.


The circle binding is a good way to stop people breaking the walls down, though.