[PF] Oradin Mini-Guide. Or, How to be a Healbot, minus the 'bot'

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Originally Posted by NewDefect

Do you have a recommended spell list?

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I've thought about it from time to time, but...

The build is fairly free-form to start with. If you want to "play it straight" you'd basically just focus on Healing and damage prevention/buff spells anyway.
But one of the big strengths is that you can play it however you want.

A few stand out from the Paladin list though.

Hero's Defiance Paladin 1, Immediate action, if you would fall unconscious, you can instantly use a Lay on Hands to heal yourself with a bonus +1d6.

Paladin's Sacrifice Paladin 2, Immediate action, this is basically a 1-use Emergency Shield Other. Unlike Shield Other you take ALL the damage the attack would have done.

And I've heard good things about the Litany X spells.

If the others in your party are Lawful Good, then Bestow Grace of the Champion can be a decent boost.
It's also a handy spell for a single-class Oracle to have and use on themselves.

Hey guys, new to the giant in the playground but have been hearing about this website for a long time. I will post a hello post after this one.


Alright. I am the type of player who loves healing, could be because of my gender I don't know. I just like healing. I had played an oracle on our last campaign and did not play her properly. I forgot to play a lot of her abilities efficiently. I was playing a sit back and heal, occasional damage spells here and there, kind of character.

Now we have a new campaign, brand new players and I saw myself going back to my Aasimar oracle. DM suggested I play a different version at least. I agreed to be a oradin. What I want my character to do is;


- Heal <--- I guess that's a given.
- I don't necessarily want to land an amazing damage... but I would like to do something when I am not healing.... so I went with tripping.
- I want my character up front by the tank and be able to heal the dps and the tank easier.

I ended up having a lvl 2 paladin and a level 4 oracle (starting at lvl 6). Heritage Angelkin (+ 2 strength and charisma)
My ability scores added up to;

Strength 14
Dexterity 12
Constitution 13
Intellect 13
Wisdom 13
Charisma 20

Favored class Oracle, Hit points at 44, AC will be at 23 (in +1 full plate), +1 light shield and a Chain shirt for when sleeping and travelling in the city... I don't think I want to be slow all the time.

Following Sarenrae, LG
Mystery Life, Safe Curing, Oracle Channel Positive Energy


I did roll Sonic resistance 5 on the aasimar ability table, which was a bonus I guess to Acid, Cold and electricity resistance 5's.

I also have Magical Knack (oracle) which gives me a + 2CL (so I am a class 6 CL Oracle)

Sacred Touch (Auto stabilize dying creature as a standard action)

Safe Curing - healing spells don't provoke Attack of Opportunity.


Feats: Combat Expertise, improved trip and brew potion (in the shape of hard candies... because why not? I think the paladin side of the character might be helping an orphanage. I can't really come up with why I would go on quests with a tiefling, fetchling, sylph, drow, halfing O.O I mean.... I am LG alignment -_-) (I am open to role playing suggestions for my party members... PM please)


Spells: 0 lvl Detect magic and poison, Guidance, mending, purify food and drink, read magic (can stabilize automatically).
lvl 1 Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Command (built in Cure light, detect undead)
lvl 2: Aid (built in Cure mod, lesser restoration)


Kind of the reason why I took Curse: Tongues (Abyssal and Infernal) because I can still communicate with some of my party members at least... This might look weird in a city state ... if I get in a fight. I guess I will whisper or something as to not draw attention to myself?

What do you guys think of this build? Am I missing anything? Can I change something to be a more effective healer? I did kind of think about life link and such... but I can't really wrap my head around the pro's and con's of it.
Also taking suggestions for spells to take, I am not very confident on what I have taken...

Also any suggestions with what future feats I should keep in mind?

Edit: Forgot to mention, I am using a +1 Mithral Light flail as my primary weapon...

Have you considered the Fey Foundling feat? Also, possibly taking more levels in Paladin?

After reading the posts here I did. But I didn't discuss with my DM about it. I didn't understand what the conditions of taking this feat are. I know I can take feats and what ever from Advance players guide and core rule book kind of thing. But this feat is in the campaign setting inner sea? We are not following a campaign so I don't know how that would work.

Umm no. The Inner Sea is a region in Golarion (this region happens to be heavily written about in adventures), so it's not specific to any campaign. The book is some sort of primer to that region, which contains many, many countries.

But, in the end, ask your DM.

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Originally Posted by Chezha

I did kind of think about life link and such... but I can't really wrap my head around the pro's and con's of it.

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One of the big bonuses is that you can heal everyone automatically, without having to spend extra actions, or chase everyone down.

The main problem with healing in combat are the Cure spells themselves.
Standard action to cast, and requires a Melee Touch.
This generally leads to spending a Move action to get close enough to your target. So you wind up wasting your whole turn just to remove some damage.
Life Link easily eliminates the "get to touch range" part, as the damage is transferred to you, and you are always within touch range of yourself.

The 'typical' Oradin uses Lay on Hands as a Swift Action way of healing, which frees up your Standard action as well.
Going from "potential Move action + Standard" to "Swift only" is a VERY nice 'upgrade'.


You have Channeling, so you might think about grabbing Selective Channel, that way you can heal all your allies in combat without also healing all your opponents.

Good stuff! I've added this to the Guide to the Builds. Hope you don't mind!

OK so last night I started a campaign where I played this

I basically had a flash of inspiration before the game, because I wanted to play the character, who I had played in another campaign as an Oradin, but the campaign required that we all be psionic. So... I basically just replaced Oracle with Vitalist!

It worked really well. You don't need very many Vitalist levels to start, just 2 really. What you want is the Collective, and the ability to distribute health throughout the collective. You can swift action Lay On Hands yourself, get extra HP from Few Foundling, and then transfer that healing to anyone within the collective, essentially letting you heal other people as a swift action at range, and for more than Life Link does.

But Axinian, you may ask, doesn't Vitalist require Wisdom? Doesn't it make you MAD? The answer: Sort of. My strength score took a small hit, but really you only need a 11 in Wis to manifest powers, though you want a 12. An Oracle with Life Link can only form like 1, maybe 2 bonds at low levels anyway so a Vitalist/Paladin essentially has the same number in his collective. Furthermore, the Vitalist's collective grows in size depending on his Wisdom mod, so you can just get a Wis-boosting item to increase it!.

It seems like you could choose any Vitalist method and have the build work just fine. I'm planning on taking another level in Paladin before another in Vitalist, but you can probably do whatever combination of levels. It seems like you want to get those first 2 levels of vitalist ASAP though

The Vitalist Oradin in short:
PROS:
-Swift Action healing of anybody with Lay on Hands, with Fey Foundling bonus
-Can share buffs with people
-If someone else heals, you can take that healing for yourself
-Don't need a curse
-Less essential to have high levels in the secondary class
-Can take psionic feats if you want

CONS:
-Vitalist has d6 hit die
-Slight increase in MAD
-Most psionic healing powers use flat numbers instead of dice, so no Fey Foundling for them
-Holy Vindicator is a lot less good

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Originally Posted by Axinian

The Vitalist Oradin in short:

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Well, don't let me be a neigh-sayer, but wouldn't you be a Vitadin? :smallbiggrin:

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Originally Posted by Starbin

Well, don't let me be a neigh-sayer, but wouldn't you be a Vitadin? :smallbiggrin:

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That's... genius!

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Originally Posted by Axinian

The Vitalist Oradin in short:
PROS:
-Swift Action healing of anybody with Lay on Hands, with Fey Foundling bonus
-Can share buffs with people
-If someone else heals, you can take that healing for yourself
-Don't need a curse
-Less essential to have high levels in the secondary class
-Can take psionic feats if you want

CONS:
-Vitalist has d6 hit die
-Slight increase in MAD
-Most psionic healing powers use flat numbers instead of dice, so no Fey Foundling for them
-Holy Vindicator is a lot less good

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Nice.
I should steal, borrow, ask if I can put some of this in the guide.
Add Con: Vitalist has 1/2 Bab.

Of course, another Con would be that Vitalist is almost perfect for this role as a Single class.

This is something I can't seem to find an answer on: Does Adamantine damage reduction reduce damage taken as an effect of Life Link and/or Shield Other?

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Originally Posted by TheBetterMan

This is something I can't seem to find an answer on: Does Adamantine damage reduction reduce damage taken as an effect of Life Link and/or Shield Other?

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You transfer the damage, not parts of a cut. It's a spell effect or supernatural ability, you do not get hit.

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Originally Posted by Sporeegg

You transfer the damage, not parts of a cut. It's a spell effect or supernatural ability, you do not get hit.

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Okay, thanks. That's the way I've been using it, but I thought maybe when Shield Other damage transferred and it was weapon damage it might actually reduce it.

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Originally Posted by Starbin

Well, don't let me be a neigh-sayer, but wouldn't you be a Vitadin? :smallbiggrin:

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"Paladist" doesn't work that well...

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Originally Posted by Zubrowka74

"Paladist" doesn't work that well...

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Palist works ok.
As does Palalist.
Paladitalist does not.

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Originally Posted by grarrrg

Palist works ok.
As does Palalist.
Paladitalist does not.

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Vitaladin ?

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Originally Posted by Zubrowka74

Vitaladin ?

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OOOH!! I like that one.

But then how can all the Mommie Monsters ask their Little Monsters if they've taken their Vitadins?

Vitalidin sounds like something for those suffering from performance issues. "Need some arrows in your quiver? Looking to put the steel back in your sheath? Find that your Improved Sunder is a big blunder? Well, just take Vitalidin and you'll rise to any occasion!"

Please consult your physician prior to using Vitalidin. Do not take Vitalidin if you have a history of low hit points, negative Con modifiers, or single-digit Fort saves. Side effects may include fatigued or staggered conditions, non-lethal damage, and reduced ability scores. Immediately see a cleric if the increased reach on your weapon lasts longer than four hours.

Hey there everyone!

One Question...

I saw this Post and like this build and would like to try it but in my campaign we have to deal alot with curses diseases and the like. Where between level 4-6

Did I miss something or do you have with the Oradin problem to deal with that?

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Originally Posted by Winterschmied

I saw this Post and like this build and would like to try it but in my campaign we have to deal alot with curses diseases and the like. Where between level 4-6

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If he's throwing that kind of stuff at you at that low a level, then you're in a tough spot, regardless of what you're playing.

Oracles get Remove Curse/Disease as 3rd level spells.
There's also the Paladin's Mercy class feature.
You can get the Disease Mercy at level 6, and the Curse Mercy at level 9.

There's also the Bracelet of Mercy (from Ult. Equip.), it gives +1/day Lay on Hands and the Disease Mercy. If you already have it, you count as +4 levels for Removing Disease.

Thanks! I'll try this then. I hope we dont get more trees from strange curses!

http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic/a...emove-sickness
...is a first level spell for Oracles/Clerics.
Curses suck at low level. You will probably have to buy some scrolls of remove curse for a while, at least until you reach 3rd level Oracle/Cleric casting, or take the Paladin Mercy described above.

A scroll of remove curse will cost you...375g. Always carry 2 on you until you have a reliable means of removing the effect yourself. This applies to all of the 'Remove ...' spells. All of the 'Remove ...' spells are a sound investment on your spells known list.

Finally added a Vitaladin section, and Psionic Races.

I am not familiar with Psionics, so if there are any feats/powers/etc... that just scream VITALADIN! please let me know, and I'll add them in.

I've mentioned in other threads how much I adore this build.

Hey, i think Eldritch Heritage deserves a mention in your feats section. Any class with charisma can find something in there that's worth using, and if you went half-elf, the prerequisite is free.

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Originally Posted by Talya

Hey, i think Eldritch Heritage deserves a mention in your feats section. Any class with charisma can find something in there that's worth using

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I admit it's a solid option, but it's not in the guide for the same reason a lot of things aren't in the guide.

Things that go in the guide: things that directly help 'healing' (or seem like they might help but are actually kinda bad).

One of the issues with the Oradin build is that, at the end of the day, it really isn't a "build". It's just two abilities that combine really well. The rest of it is entirely up in the air. As long as you have a way to move damage/healing around (Life Link, Shield Other, Collective) and a way to heal without spending a Standard Action (Lay on Hands, Energy Body, Fast Healing, Ring of Regeneration) it can be considered an "Oradin build" (even if it contains neither Paladin nor Oracle).

Thus the guide is focused on the things that the Oradin portion cares about > the healing.
The other 75% of the build could be Archery, Melee Damage, Tripping, Casting, etc... And listing the good stuff for all of those options would take up quite a bit of space.

I am open to suggestions though, so keep them coming :smallsmile:

P.S. I. Am. A. Moron.
How in the heck have I had this guide for this long and NOT recommended a Ring of Regeneration?
I mean SERIOUSLY!?

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Originally Posted by grarrrg

I admit it's a solid option, but it's not in the guide for the same reason a lot of things aren't in the guide.

Things that go in the guide: things that directly help 'healing' (or seem like they might help but are actually kinda bad).

{snip}
How in the heck have I had this guide for this long and NOT recommended a Ring of Regeneration?
I mean SERIOUSLY!?

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Let's go with the ring of regeneration.

And...Eldritch Heritage Arcane Bloodline gets you a bonded item. You take a ring, which gets you an extra spell per day you know spontaneously (including from your paladin list). And you can make it a ring. Which you can enhance as if you had forge ring. Which makes that ridiculously expensive ring of regeneration WAY cheaper.

Yes, Forge Ring gets you the same thing, but this is probably better if only for the extra spontaneously cast spell per day...

Hi!

First of all, thank you for the guide. Perhaps mini in claim, but it's a giant in practice!

Now, a question. How do you feel an oradin would do that would (strongly) favour laying on hands over channeling? I'm likely going to play a half-elf oradin in the near future, and it really starts to look like I won't have a lot of freedom on my feats. If I could cut Selective Channeling, it'd be great.

The general plan is to start (level 3 campaign start, slow or medium progression) as an oracle 1 / paladin 2, with Fey Foundling and one other feat. I'm considering swapping the skill focus for ancestral arms, although I'm not sure yet what weapon to be honest. I do like the idea of the falcata, maybe combined with a quickdraw light shield so I have a hand free for spellcasting, laying on hands if I need to heal someone else, etc.

In a related question, how do you feel that the Hospitaler and Sacred Servant archetypes compare? The latter looks very competitive, but it seems most people assume the former for the oradin.


Thank you in advance :)

so this is similar to the vitalist where it is a similar concept but different class what about barbaracle? so as far as i can tell Life link is just regualr damage it isn't divine or bleed so DR applies normally. So invulnerable barbarian6/oracle2 with this set up you can as a barbarian choose guarded life, and when combined with diehard works like this when you are at 4hp or less;
The wizard and ranger get fireballed
Life link kicks in they all get healed 5 and you take 2 instances of 5 damage
guard life converts each instance to non lethal.
Your DR3 counts as double for non lethal so you reduce it by 6 that's 0 damage. that's not bad but bizarrely if you combine the the suboptimal rage prophet and the urban barbarian you get a very odd range support healer so bear with and look past the use of the "trap" urban barabarian and rage prophet it's good I swear XD. urban barbarian doesn't cause you to lose AC nor does it disrupt your casting. also you can pump you Dex and support for afar with a bow. Lastly if you want to be at dr5 all the time as early as possible go half orc barbarian 1/oracle 2. that's it trade out intimating for endurance chosse diehard at level and stalwart at level 3. now go sit in the back forever using total defense to boost your DR1 to DR5. human also works.

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Originally Posted by Makarion

Now, a question. How do you feel an oradin would do that would (strongly) favour laying on hands over channeling? I'm likely going to play a half-elf oradin in the near future, and it really starts to look like I won't have a lot of freedom on my feats. If I could cut Selective Channeling, it'd be great.

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Focusing much more on Lay on Hands should not be a problem.
Channeling is mainly handy as a way to patch everyone up quickly, such as the group being hit by a Fireball. Or out of combat to get everyone back up to (near) max HP.
Cutting down on using it in combat, and saving it for out of combat should work fine.

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Originally Posted by Makarion

In a related question, how do you feel that the Hospitaler and Sacred Servant archetypes compare? The latter looks very competitive, but it seems most people assume the former for the oradin.

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Hospitaler is more 'front-loaded' with it's benefits, and is much simpler with it's bonuses. Being able to Channel Energy withOUT having to use Lay on Hands is very nice.
Sacred Servant takes longer to get going, and the Divine Bond is a little screwy, but is probably the stronger high level choice.

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Originally Posted by ProfRedwood

so this is similar to the vitalist where it is a similar concept but different class what about barbaracle? so as far as i can tell Life link is just regualr damage it isn't divine or bleed so DR applies normally.

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Damage Reduction only applies vs. Attacks.
Life Link is not an attack, and so DR does nothing.

Shield Other should work with DR though.