http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HJW_eCrXG
Let me know what you think? Thanks ahead of time for looking :)
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http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HJW_eCrXG
Let me know what you think? Thanks ahead of time for looking :)
Since there's no real support for playing a werewolf otherwise, this is a pretty great addition. But I do see some issues. This has turned out to be an essay-sized post, so I'll put a TL;DR at the bottom.
For one, the fact that Half-Transform and Rage are not connected is weird. You would expect a werewolf character to go around in human form, and transform into his wolf-like form when a fight breaks out. But that won't happen. When a fight breaks out, your first bonus action will be spent on using Rage. You could then choose to half-transform during your second turn, but at that point there's no benefit to be gained. The only combat benefit from half-transform is the natural weapons, but you'll already have drawn a real weapon on the first turn, which is almost sure to be better than your natural weapon.
So at the very least, you should add that half-transformation happens automatically when you Rage. Otherwise the concept is kind of undermined. I would personally be inclined to simplify by tying transformation completely to Rage, without the option to do it separately. It simplifies the bookkeeping, and I think it makes thematic sense: you can only afford to take your werewolf form for a limited amount of time per day, lest you lose control.
That aside, let's judge the balance of what is currently there by comparing to Totem Warrior.
At level 3, the Totem Warrior gets a major combat boost (Totem Spirit) and a ribbon (Spirit Seeker). This class basically gets four ribbons, namely:
- Darkvision, which is useful for a human but trivial for everyone else. (How often is a barbarian going to attack someone more than 60 feet away?)
- The ability to speak with one type of animal.
- Proficiency or expertise in Intimidation, which is of very limited use due to how self-destructive the use of Intimidation tends to be.
- Natural weapons that deal less damage than any weapon a barbarian is likely to use.
To clarify, a ribbon is a feature that is thematic, but is so minor or so circumstantial that it has no real effect on the class' power or usefulness. So in terms of combat power and overall usefulness, this class basically gains nothing at 3rd level, which is a shame.
The 6th level features are more useful, but still very close to ribbon territory. However that's fine because the Totem Warrior also gets a ribbon at this level.
As a side note, "resistance against being poisoned/frightened/charmed" is not a mechanic that exists. I guess you meant that they have advantage on saving throws against those things. Or maybe you just meant immunity.
At 10th level, this class gets a bonus action unarmed strike, which is a nice feature but it kind of comes online at the wrong level, because the other barbarians get only ribbons at this level. It would've made more sense to provide this early on, when the class is supposed to get a power boost.
My suggestion would be to give the bonus action attack at 3rd level, when a power boost is intended. It's also worth considering only giving the bonus attack when your main attack is with an unarmed strike as well. That way you're actually encouraged to fight unarmed instead of using a greatsword.
I also have to question the curse part from Curse of the Moon. For one, using this actually makes your enemies stronger. I can't really imagine a situation in which turning your enemy into a werewolf would help your cause. Secondly, the DC is laughably low. It's 5 at the level that you get it. I guess this is because you don't want it to trigger very often, for the aforementioned reason. But then, why include it at all? The character in question is not a full werewolf anyways, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to say that they don't transmit lycanthropy.
Animal Instincts seems perfectly solid, no complaints there.
As a final note, taking double damage from silver weapons is savage. It's not entirely clear how the double damage interacts with the damage resistance from Rage, but the way it's phrased seems to me like you take straight-up double damage, ignoring the resistance you normally get. The chance of encountering silvered weapons may seem low, but it's going to increase pretty strongly when the character gains notoriety in the later levels. In a continuous campaign, the BBEG is likely to start arming at least his closest goons with silver weapons, which could lead to the lycan barbarian being rendered mostly useless in the final boss fight.
Instead of what it currently is, I would make it so that silver weapons ignore the damage resistance from your Rage. It's still thematic, but not quite as punishing. Importantly, it means that being attacked with silver weapons will reduce your durability down to what it would be if you weren't raging, rather than making you more vulnerable than you would've been while not raging. Getting a straight-up detriment from using your core class feature is likely to make people feel cheated, I think.
As a final final note, the quirks you provided are a nice touch.
TL;DR / recap
This is a good start, but I suggest that you:
- Compare this to existing barbarian subclasses to ensure that it gets its combat boosts at the same time (level 3 and 14, basically).
- Consider whether or not you want the character to fight with weapons. If you want them to fight primarily unarmed, there needs to be a strong incentive for that early on.
- Consider streamlining the lycanthropy aspect by tying it directly to Rage, and having silver weapons merely ignoring the damage resistance from Rage.
DCs should be 8+proficiency modifier+Strength modifier.
Other than that... I honestly don't see any real issues with this. It might actually be a touch on the weak side, but it's certainly not overpowered. I like what you did here!
Thanks for all the feedback!
I will definately reorder things to be more balanced.
Here was my thought process.
all were animals should be able to see in the dark. all were animals should technically be contageous.
the half transform will make them be able to look slightly cool. I still like it XD
any benifits you get from being half transformed you get in rage, I should have made that more clear.
half transform is more like: crap I've been disarmed, but I can still do stuff! but I also like the idea of it being primary source of attack, or encouraging people to use it more.
the price would be you looked like a monster and it would be bad for social situations.
silver weapons read:
Some monsters that have immunity or resistance to nonmagical weapons are susceptible to silver weapons
so I guess I assumed they naturally passed barb rage resistance, but if they don't that's a good idea to do instead.
yes on the resistance to status I meant resistance on the rolls that cause them, I will fix that!
Thanks for all the great feedback!
EDIT: I guess if I'm going with you being a half werewolf you don't have to be contagious. Which makes things easier anyway.
If I'm encouraging them to fight only unarmed, is 1d6 powerful enough for each strike?
I was only thinking if they could bite while still using their normal weapon it would become OP. but if I make it so they can only bite as a bonus action when using unarmed it makes a bunch of d6s underwhelming for a barb. maybe 1d8 or even 1d10? What do you think? Or I could make the Bite that later activates secondary effects stay at 1d6 and make the others that are just damage do 1d10. so they're choosing to do bites for effects and just a bunch of claw / tail attacks for damage..
My only problem with that is that because barbs get an extra +2 modifier to strength, that actually makes the DC 21 at level 20. which.. could be a balance problem? The way I have it now, the cap is 15.Quote:
DCs should be 8+proficiency modifier+Strength modifier.
I suppose I could do like 6 + prof + Str, which would make the highest DC a 19.
EDIT: Lots of changes made for balance. mostly moving and clarifying things. Let me know what you think! same link.
Ah, an understandable mistake. But indeed, silver weapons only pierce resistance if the feature in question specifically says that. Thus why the werewolf from the monster manual has immunity to "Bludgeoning, Piercing, And Slashing Damage From Nonmagical Weapons That Aren't Silvered"Quote:
Originally Posted by MagneticKitty
If you give d6 unarmed strikes, plus the ability to make an unarmed strike as a bonus action when attacking unarmed, that should be about equally powerful as using a greatsword. (Or rather, it's a little better at level 3 and 4, but evens out at level 5.)Quote:
Originally Posted by MagneticKitty
Spoiler: Math
Level 3
Greatsword: 2d6 + 3 (Str) + 2 (Rage) = ~12 damage
Unarmed: (d6 + 3 + 2) x 2 = ~ 17 damage
Level 5
Greatsword: (2d6 + 4 + 2) x 2 = ~ 26 damage
Unarmed: (d6 + 4 + 2) x 3 = ~ 28 damage
Unarmed is also going to get slightly better at the higher levels due to the increasing damage bonus from Rage. So unarmed is overall slightly better, but that's fine since it costs your bonus action.
So that's what I would recommend doing. Then the player can still choose whether or not they feel like using weapons. Do note that this feature wouldn't really count as a combat boost, because as shown it doesn't make the barbarian notably stronger, merely allows them to fight unarmed on equal ground.
What happens at level 20 really doesn't matter. 99.99% of games never get there. Also all semblance of balance basically goes out the window when wizards get Meteor Swarm at level 17. So I wouldn't worry about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagneticKitty
You could certainly choose to make the DC 8 + Strength if you want it to be easy to pass, I wouldn't object to that too strongly. But it's more elegant to follow the normal format for saving throws and adjust the effect for balance. I think it'd be a good idea to raise the DC, but make the effect take place no more than once per round. That prevents it from being too powerful, and also cuts down on the amount of rolls being made. (Adding a save to every successful attack you make is quite time-consuming.)
if you think darkvision is likely not useful, (but I think it's important for lycan because they're associated with night) do you think it would be better to put it with half transform instead of intimidating (which was more for fluff anyway, I don't think of it as iconic for a lycan to have), move the Natural Resilience to level 6 so you start getting something specific to your lycan type earlier, and then put in something else ribbony at 10? like talk with animals (not species restricted) at 10?
Darkvision is fine. It may not be that influential, but it comes alongside other bonuses, so there's no need to remove it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagneticKitty
Level 6, 10 and 14 actually look perfectly good now. Only level 3 is still a bit underwhelming. The bonus action unarmed strikes are a damage boost at level 3 and 4, but in the long run it's just a side-grade compared to using a weapon. I would definitely add something more at level 3. Maybe instead of Intimidation, you can grant proficiency or expertise in Perception, since animals tend to have better hearing and scent than humans.
Alternatively (or perhaps additionally), you could add a benefit based on type. Maybe clump some of the types together to avoid clutter. Something like:
- Wolf or Panther: Your walking speed increases by 10 feet.
- Bear or Croc: Your bristly fur or tough scales grant +1 AC.
- Rat or Bat: Not sure about these. Proficiency in Stealth? Proficiency in Dexterity saves? The former seems a bit too weak and the latter a bit too strong. Will have to consider.
Just a suggestion for things that might make the half-transformation worthwhile.
As a last little thing, the way the 3rd level feature is currently written is quite clunky. You can't quickly differentiate what is fluff and what is rules. So I suggest you format it more like this:
Spoiler: Half-Transform (both suggestions included)You can use a bonus action to change between your half-transformed and normal forms. Your half-transformation augments your humanoid form with beast-like aspects, such as claws, fangs, animalistic eyes, pointy ears, and/or the growth of a tail. It grants the following benefits.
- Your unarmed strikes use a d6 for damage. They deal bludgeoning, piercing or slashing damage depending on the nature of your transformation. When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action.
- You have darkvision out to a range of 60 feet. If you already have darkvision, the range is increased by 30 feet.
- You gain proficiency in Perception. If you are already proficient, you add double your proficiency bonus to Perception checks.
You also gain a benefit based on your Lycan species.
- Rat or Bat: (?)
- Wolf or Panther: Your walking speed increases by 10 feet.
- Bear or Croc: Your bristly fur or tough scales grant +1 AC.
Using your Rage feature also causes you to Half-Transform automatically.
Looking at it like this, with both of my suggestions included, it looks quite good, neither overpowered nor underpowered. It's still not as much of a combat beast as the Bear Totem, but it's not that far behind, and instead it gets some useful utilities that are usable even outside of Rage.
So you're saying I should put this as an all the time perk of being half transformed, and not rage only?Quote:
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action.
I guess I was picturing a normal warrior using a sword until they rage, when they just drop it and go rabid on the foe with claws and fangs. lol.
but yes that would give them the choice to do either. so that is nice.
I was condsidering perception, I just didn't know if it would make it front loaded?
That works too, whichever you prefer. Doesn't really matter balance-wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagneticKitty
I don't think so. I mean, I'm making the point that without it the feature isn't good enough. As currently written, the only benefits you get at 3rd level are darkvision and the ability to fight unarmed. At the same level, Bear Totem gets resistance to all damage types, Eagle Totem gets double speed and protection from opportunity attacks, and Wolf Totem gets to give his allies advantage on any number of attacks. This archetype needs something more to compete.Quote:
I was condsidering perception, I just didn't know if it would make it front loaded?
Ok, done with my latest revision. Clarified some things. added perception.
changed tables to lists... this website does not like tables. if they don't fit it puts them on the far right where you can't read them. unfortunately.
added my Author's notes. added the needed spells to the end. basically page two is just notes and quirks. not 100% required. I think I'm done....???
I think so. Only I would add that if you already have Perception proficiency, you get double proficiency for it. Otherwise you get punished for taking it normally.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagneticKitty
My thought was even if you took it normally you don't get it for smell. But if you think that's balanced I could do that... After I get home from work. I see two typos to fix too.
It doesn't say that it doesn't. Besides, have you ever specifically rolled a scent check?Quote:
Originally Posted by MagneticKitty
And yeah, not only do I think it's balanced, I think the class needs it. Without it, if you're a race that already has darkvision, you get essentially nothing at 3rd level.
Only with my druid in wildshape. Is has tracking uses... Ok well I think I'm done? Unless you think lv 3 still needs buffs
I don't think a little more would hurt, but it's solid enough to play test. Now it's a matter of trying it out and seeing how it feels!Quote:
Originally Posted by MagneticKitty
I realize one more thing it needs. At lv 6 natural weapons should overcome non magical resistance. Like wildshape and monk. Should I add that at 6 with previous abilities or do I need to move things around to fit it? I don't think it is op. Just needed to be viableQuote:
Originally Posted by Lalliman
Or if lv 3 still needs buff I could stick it there
Good point. I think you can indeed just put that in at 6th level. The reason (I think) it isn't granted earlier is because the other players are very unlikely to have magic weapons before that time anyways, and so the DM still retains the ability to scare them with a damage-immune monster.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagneticKitty
Hmm
If I can math right..
Math:
PAM 2(1d10+7+4) +(1d4 +7+4) = 46.5
W great sword 2(2d6+7+4) = 36
W gwm 2(2d6+7+4+10) =56
This subclass 3(1d6+7+4) = 43
None f these seem high for a lv 20. Maybe I'm missing something xp
I guess they do crit more often