How should a dwarf react to being offered a pair of women's shoes?

The other day, my players were pilfering dead bodies after coming upon the site of a massacre. Among the bodies was a noblewoman, who was wearing a pair of knee-high stilletto boots, from a famed clothier. The boots were valued at 500 gp, by their estimate.

After reaching town, they got to know the townspeople. They spoke to the only dwarf in town, who ran the steam engine. He had something they wanted - I forget what... information, likely. He wasn't willing to divulge it. They tried to bribe him with the woman's shoes.

I thought it would make sense that a dwarf would be offended at the mere suggestion of being offered feminine clothes. I started furiously shaking my head and saying "no, no, no. I don't want them. Get it away. I don't want to hear about this" and talked over them when they tried to apologize.

Today I received an email from one of my players. She accused me of being transphobic and said she would not be returning. Pretty disheartening, considering that cross dressing never even crossed my mind.

Per the rules default answer is no. For any reason including your choice in food.

If I had no way of getting value from the boots or no desire to look for a buyer. The dwarf could not wear them human size could not be connected enough to know an NPC Rouge. Your player has never hit a road block in real life so thinks the game should bend to her will. Not all plans work.

She is not thinking beyond her narrow scope.

I don't think you did anything wrong, you gave an NPC slight character. I don't believe you were being out and out transphobic, your dwarf character wasn't telling anyone they couldn't crossdress, just that he didn't want to and he didn't like it. I feel like your player was being a bit too sensitive and if you truly want them back, try to open a dialogue.

I don't know who this player is, so I don't know if they're an SJW or if it's a more personal matter, but there's a few ways you can go about it. If you wanted the character to come off as offended because they were women's boots, then explain to her that you're not trying to impose your own views on the world, that this character was simply offended by it personally. This may or may not work. If the character simply didn't have the desire or ability to turn a profit off the boots, then you may have roleplayed him inaccurately, but explain that to the player. However, this may just be something you have to accept. I dunno.

Ask this question an enemy male orc walks into an elvish town demands everyone speak orc or they will kill them the orc is cross dressed as female orc demands healing so he go back to the front to kill elves.

Does her character heal the orc?

I don't know, I think that a 250gp bribe is quite the generous offer. If I were playing the dwarfs reaction he'd probably be quite confused and after they explained the value of the boots he'd probably get them to go and sell them for him and return with the gold. Unless it was a dwarven noblewoman they looted the boots from it's not like they would fit him anyways so I can't really see why it would be assumed that the offer was for him to wear them. Besides the offer of clothes to someone who lives in soot isn't really a wise choice.

Wow, there's a lot of snide assumptions coming out here.

The boots have an inherent mechanical value, which you've already established, so just under the idea that anyone would and should appreciate fine craftsmanship (dwarves aside), and material worth is worth more consideration than it appears to have been given.

As for any transphobic predisposition, it's pretty clear that yes, you're carrying a standard level of stigma into this. Just that you defaulted that of course a male dwarf would find anything feminine distasteful out of hand. Crossdressing doesn't even have to figure into it, yet that seems to be the default you came up with and worse, perpetuating the idea that drag is anything disturbing or undesirable, with the kind of cavalier, preemptive dismissal you've presented. It would be different if chauvanism/misogyny/etc. were established as part and party to this character or the setting, as something addressed as part of the narrative, the problem here lies in this base assumption that, of course, there's no basis to the suggestion that the dwarf could have use of these boots, because that's not "normal".

I'm more disturbed by the comments I'm seeing here though that are automatically categorizing the player in question as some sort of "SJW" as a way of dismissing the PC in this case out of hand, without any other context.

My only question is how you expressed the dwarf's refusal to accept the shoes.

If you just said "No, not interested. Why are you even offering me a dead lady's shoes?!?!", that's fine.

If you said something to the effect of "I ain't no dress-wearing, tree-hugging, sissy elfling, why would I want these?" that's fine in my book, but I can see where someone might be offended. Personally I think the player is overreacting, but I can't judge since I wasn't there. Apologize, watch your words in the future, and move on.

If you said something like "I ain't no *(insert transphobic statements and/or expletives)*", that's... not fine. Not wrong, but not cool. As a DM, your job is to be every NPC. Some of these NPCs are scum. That said, your job as a DM is to make the game fun and enjoyable for everyone. If you want to have a transphobic dwarf, you're entitled to do so, but if that touches a nerve in your players, apologize and back off.

Since us DMs play everything from innocent orphans to soul-sucking necromancers, playing a transphobic NPC doesn't mean we're transphobic. But, it is in exceedingly poor taste and ill-considered; like dragging modern day real-life politics into a game. It can be done, but you better know exactly what you're doing and why you're doing it. Anything less will just make your players angry at you (with good reason).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NRSASD

My only question is how you expressed the dwarf's refusal to accept the shoes.

---

I played it out as I said to you guys. I didn't use any slurs. I just started fiercely shaking my head and took on a "having none of that" tone. If anything, I played him more insecure. Like he was tempted to take the shoes, but felt that it was taboo. Imagine like a priest being tempted by sex.

But at the heart of it, I did intend to make the dwarf offended. Dwarves are a fiercely masculine culture so attempting to offer them an article of women's clothing, as if they have any use for it, would draw his ire.

In that case, I think you hit a nerve/handled it poorly. Rather than be offended, maybe a reply of "My wife only wears boots with steel toes, no deal." would be a better way of portraying a "fiercely masculine culture" without being confrontational about it. I think the player in question was just as offended by how you said it as what you said. I'd apologize to the player, trying to avoid that kind of response in the future, and move on. It's a game, all of you are here to have fun, and you don't want to lose a friend over the actions of an NPC.

As a complete aside, it might be useful to dissect "fiercely masculine" into its components pieces to characterize the Dwarves. Masculine is a catchall category of traits that are heavily influenced by the culture of the society in question. A few examples of "fiercely masculine behavior" throughout history: homosexuality (Ancient Greece), expensive perfume (Achaemenid Persia), tights (Elizabethan England), and many more.

When you say masculine, what do you mean? There are almost certainly Dwarven women, so how are they masculine? Odds are pretty good that what you're picturing as masculine could be explained with a few more evocative words, which a. helps flesh out your Dwarven culture and b. helps you avoid stepping on players' toes inadvertently.

Offering high heels to a dwarf? Are they trying to get themselves killed for implying the dwarf was too short?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NRSASD

In that case, I think you hit a nerve/handled it poorly. Rather than be offended, maybe a reply of "My wife only wears boots with steel toes, no deal." would be a better way of portraying a "fiercely masculine culture" without being confrontational about it. I think the player in question was just as offended by how you said it as what you said. I'd apologize to the player, trying to avoid that kind of response in the future, and move on. It's a game, all of you are here to have fun, and you don't want to lose a friend over the actions of an NPC.

As a complete aside, it might be useful to dissect "fiercely masculine" into its components pieces to characterize the Dwarves. Masculine is a catchall category of traits that are heavily influenced by the culture of the society in question. A few examples of "fiercely masculine behavior" throughout history: homosexuality (Ancient Greece), expensive perfume (Achaemenid Persia), tights (Elizabethan England), and many more.

When you say masculine, what do you mean? There are almost certainly Dwarven women, so how are they masculine? Odds are pretty good that what you're picturing as masculine could be explained with a few more evocative words, which a. helps flesh out your Dwarven culture and b. helps you avoid stepping on players' toes inadvertently.

---

If I could up vote this response, I would.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NRSASD

In that case, I think you hit a nerve/handled it poorly. Rather than be offended, maybe a reply of "My wife only wears boots with steel toes, no deal." would be a better way of portraying a "fiercely masculine culture" without being confrontational about it. I think the player in question was just as offended by how you said it as what you said. I'd apologize to the player, trying to avoid that kind of response in the future, and move on. It's a game, all of you are here to have fun, and you don't want to lose a friend over the actions of an NPC.

---

First off, all of this response was really good.

Second, yeah; if not transphobic then at the least you were portraying an NPC as misogynistic if they were offended by the notion of femininity. NPC opinions != your opinions, but portraying a character who is otherwise neutral with unpleasant characteristics can be a tough line to walk.

Which brings me back to the response I quoted; whatever your intent, you offended one of your players. Checking with anyone else to see if it was ‘reasonable’ to be offended is both doomed to failure (since we weren’t there) and irrelevant; when someone says “you hurt me,” the answer of a friend is “I am sorry, I didn’t mean to and I won’t do it again” not “no I didn’t.”

Apropos of nothing in particular, depending on what part of history you are pseudo-emulating the footwear you are describing is just as likely to BE very ‘masculine’ clothing.

Thread title is silly, an NPC can react however the DM deems appropriate, there is no one true way for the high heels + dwarf encounter to go down.

Also, DMs who shout down multiple players in guise of 'playing an NPC' is obnoxious behaviour.

In the scenario as stated, announcing that you are being transphobic and leaving the group is a silly and overly dramatic reaction. That said, it sounds like you were being annoying, maybe this is just the final straw for this player. Few players walk just because they didn't like an NPC. Also, I don't know her side of it.

Cliffs: She's a snowflake or you're a douche? Not enough information.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Beer

In the scenario as stated, announcing that you are being transphobic and leaving the group is a silly and overly dramatic reaction. That said, it sounds like you were being annoying, maybe this is just the final straw for this player. Few players walk just because they didn't like an NPC. Also, I don't know her side of it.

---

There's also the small matter of how words and actions are interpreted in the context of previous words and actions - in this case, if you've been a douche then things that may or may not be a douche move are more likely to be interpreted as one. This is particularly true in the context of presenting fiction, where the same source material can come across as either a utopian fantasy or a cautionary tale depending on who made it and what else they've said/written. It's also really easy to make reasonable objections look unreasonable by removing context, or to make the absence of unreasonable objections look itself unreasonable with the same technique.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Beer

Cliffs: She's a snowflake or you're a douche? Not enough information.

---

Given the choice of usernames I'm willing to make a guess on this one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cazero

Offering high heels to a dwarf? Are they trying to get themselves killed for implying the dwarf was too short?

---

Yeah, my dwarves would have your knees for that.

Anyway, this thread has given me an idea for my setting's dwarven culture (alongside the significance of hair in it, when a dwarf reaches adulthood there's a ceremony where their heads are shaved and the hair burnt, they'll then grow the traditional hairstyle of their profession). Now my dwarves have no concept of gender.

As a bonus they're now generally pansexual. They understand there's such a thing as differing sexes, but see no reason why having breasts means you should be different than if you had a beard. All dwarves may enter all professions, and any dwarf may marry any other dwarf regardless of sex or social status. While many dwarves do want children, an adopted child will do for same sex pairs.

Offer a dwarf woman's boots of fine craftsmanship and they'll likely accept. Nice boosts are nice boots, and they go well with the beard braids I bought a few months back (although yeah, heeled boots wouldn't go down well with them, insulting a dwarf's height is almost as bad as insulting their hair).

Some dwarves do, for one treason or another end up with a concept of gender. They're considered a bit weird, and many leave to live with humans or gnomes, but they're not exactly outcasts and never exiled (the worst punishment for a dwarf, reserved for treason and murder).

The OP is someone who has previously admitted to fabricating stories on this forum in order to make some kind of point. Just an FYI for anyone reacting to this.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...it-a-campaign)

i've seen dwarves being offended from anything as simple as a clean-shaven pc to not being offered sufficiently well-crafted jewelry to being forced to drink water. your dwarf coming off as uncomfortable in the presence of noble women's shoes is about as par for the course as i can see it (although that is indeed one hell of a bribe). i know grown men who won't even touch women's clothing. is that "whatever stigma of the month that'll offend the internet"? yeah, probably. i'd go with "debilitating insecurities", myself, but i got away from that sphere of the internet years ago. oh, not to mention that depending on cultures, it could not even be sexist at all: shoes are very often seen as unclean (remember bush jr nearly getting beaned by a shoe? that was an insult in and of itself, without the projectile factored in).

if anything, i'd say your player had thin skin and you probably didn't do a good enough job of conveying you were playing the npc's reaction. take it in stride and learn from that experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Douche

The other day, my players were pilfering dead bodies after coming upon the site of a massacre. Among the bodies was a noblewoman, who was wearing a pair of knee-high stilletto boots, from a famed clothier. The boots were valued at 500 gp, by their estimate.

After reaching town, they got to know the townspeople. They spoke to the only dwarf in town, who ran the steam engine. He had something they wanted - I forget what... information, likely. He wasn't willing to divulge it. They tried to bribe him with the woman's shoes.

I thought it would make sense that a dwarf would be offended at the mere suggestion of being offered feminine clothes. I started furiously shaking my head and saying "no, no, no. I don't want them. Get it away. I don't want to hear about this" and talked over them when they tried to apologize.

Today I received an email from one of my players. She accused me of being transphobic and said she would not be returning. Pretty disheartening, considering that cross dressing never even crossed my mind.

---

The player sounds pretty paranoid and histrionic and probably would have caused problems anyway.

Or maybe she was just looking for an excuse to leave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by War_lord

The OP is someone who has previously admitted to fabricating stories on this forum in order to make some kind of point. Just an FYI for anyone reacting to this.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...it-a-campaign)

---

If this is truly the case than it may instead be the OP being confabulating and histrionic

To be fair, offering a dwarf high heels could be seen either as offering a crossdressing opportunity or as a short joke, and could be reacted to as such. Its sorta like offering a halfling a step ladder, except the step ladder is gender associated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by War_lord

The OP is someone who has previously admitted to fabricating stories on this forum in order to make some kind of point. Just an FYI for anyone reacting to this.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...it-a-campaign)

---

Ah, I see. Someone makes up a story to convince their fellow miscreants further that the ebul SJW snowflakes are ruining everything they love, from dating to D&D.

Typical. :smallannoyed:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by War_lord

The OP is someone who has previously admitted to fabricating stories on this forum in order to make some kind of point. Just an FYI for anyone reacting to this.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...it-a-campaign)

---

that was going to be my question. Is this true, or just another made up thing? Speaking of which, having that knowledge about this poster makes this a piece of art:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knaight

There's also the small matter of how words and actions are interpreted in the context of previous words and actions - in this case, if you've been a douche then things that may or may not be a douche move are more likely to be interpreted as one. This is particularly true in the context of presenting fiction, where the same source material can come across as either a utopian fantasy or a cautionary tale depending on who made it and what else they've said/written. It's also really easy to make reasonable objections look unreasonable by removing context, or to make the absence of unreasonable objections look itself unreasonable with the same technique.

---

Based on previous patterns of admitted behavior of the OP, at best they're deliberately leaving out large parts of the story that paint their part in the situation in a far less flattering light. And at worst the entire situation is a fabrication.

This is completely an undestandable behavior


Last time I robbed some bodies after a massacre I got really angry at the midget who wouldn't buy the bloody children shoes I had pilfered. I accused him of ageism because he wouldn't wear children shoes. The nerve of people today.

Wow a noble dwarf who takes offense to shoes stolen off a corpse . Were the massacre victims even buried after they were pilfered ? Were the shoes cleaned ?

Someone offered me women,s shoes that stink of death and have dry blood on em , I would alert the guards .

Yeah, aside from the crossdressing angle, they were offering a Dwarf high heels - that is an outrageous shortness insult before you even approach the other side of things. The Dwarf had more than ample reason to be outraged, even if they had been female or partial to female dress. You played this fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cazero

Offering high heels to a dwarf? Are they trying to get themselves killed for implying the dwarf was too short?

---

Had the same reaction. At first assumed the dwarf took as as insult to his height.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jormengand

Ah, I see. Someone makes up a story to convince their fellow miscreants further that the ebul SJW snowflakes are ruining everything they love, from dating to D&D.

Typical. :smallannoyed:

---

Or he's an internet troll who enjoys causing arguments and division and you're reacting exactly how he wants you to.

Why do people think that being called short is an insult to dwarves? It's humans who are hung up on height issues, being a short dwarf just means you fit into more tunnels. Now if they had offered the dwarf a salve that supposedly aids in beard growth then I could see the dwarf taking offense.

It is insulting because they offered a tool to combat that shortness thus implying it needs to be rectified.