Printable View
this thread isn't just planescape stuff. it's generally all kinds of fluff, and I am curious about this particular fluff idea.
I find the idea of redfang intruging. are there other similar cases of comparitively mortal race individuals being mortal enemies of immortal beings? I know fraz urblu considers humankind his archenemies... any other similar situations with uniques?
If you're looking for more fluff for elementals, there's an entire fan made sourcebook on the inner planes.
https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Book_of_El...5e_Sourcebook)
hm.
what interesting locations on the inner planes stand out to you afro, that tend to be obscure and not normally covered in most works?
Two questions:
The First. Any known way to block transportation by wish?
The Second. The Spire in the middle of the Outlands blocks arcane and divine magics, psionics, and salient divine abilities. Why? Is there an example of anything else doing this?
is there any hint as to the origin of vampires and who was the possible first vampire?
It is part of the Neutral nature of the place... the closer you get to the middle the more abilities get negated, putting everyone on a (mystically) balanced footingQuote:
Originally Posted by rigsmal
so there have been contreversies involving spells in the awakening line, awaken animal, awaken plant, awaken undead, awaken construct, etc.... how can these spells be explained as working to give their subjects sentience/souls/etc without too much hassle?
Make sure either the start or the destination is near the Spire. Wish is a spell. :smallwink:Quote:
Originally Posted by rigsmal
Well, the start at least. As an endpoint, the lack of magic is just a local condition.Quote:
Originally Posted by enderlord99
Is there any explanation of where Astral Dreadnoughts come from?
so I have read some of your homebrews and am curious...
is the cha stat really used to measure spiritual power for exemplars, elementals, etc? why is that?
This one kind of ended up branched, because the consistent answer for most of Planescape/3.X was that their worship passed to the pantheon generally, which supported them in kind. As of Dragon 359, however, the pantheon includes an Anubis of its own, separate from the Guardian (though it is acknowledged that the Guardian was the original Anubis before he abandoned his divinity). He still retains a single proxyQuote:
Originally Posted by gkathellar
He knows they're there. Whether or not he cares... well, the Guardian of the Dead Gods is weird. Also he doesn't like being referred to as Anubis, since that's not his name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronk
Murder-y. :smalltongue: He doesn't show up to socialize, he shows up to solve problems, and only on those occasions. Depending on the scale of the problem, he may not even appear personally - he knows how to contact hirelings to come do the job.Quote:
What would his personality be like if they end up talking to him?
"Don't fight this." He's unstatted and still possesses godlike power.Quote:
How tough is he
Unspecified, but "godlike" and "pertaining to death" make for a rather unspectacular and brief struggle.Quote:
and what powers would he have, if they fight, or witness a fight with someone else?
"Tall." Presumably he can appear at basically any size he likes. Again, though, he doesn't manifest unless there's a problem to solve.Quote:
How big is he? Is he human sized, the size of the miles long god corpses, or somewhere in between?
What, besides magic auras, magic phenomena, magic plants, magic minerals, and magic fluids? What more do you want? :smalltongue:Quote:
I've run across a Dragon article with some options for what players might find on a god corpse, like godsblood, weird memories, strange plants and minerals, and even the possibility of running into a field that raises stats. But for 3.5, all I could find was a web article saying that the first members of the spelltheif class got their powers by accidentally coming into contact with dead god's fluids after the Time of Troubles. Are there any other interesting things that you might find on a god corpse?
Doubtful. I haven't seen anything.Quote:
Is there anything updated to 3.5 out there?
One and the same.Quote:
Is this the Redfang that I'm hearing is from Savage Tides?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko
Quote:
Originally Posted by Player's Handbook
Redfang, Gnawer in Darkness, is hardly "mortal" in any conventional sense; known in ancient times as Stjernespise, he is said to be a child of Niddhogg itself and quite literally eats eladrin for breakfast, among other things.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko
DM fiat. Gods, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by rigsmal
As noted above, it's the very center of absolute neutrality.Quote:
The Spire in the middle of the Outlands blocks arcane and divine magics, psionics, and salient divine abilities. Why?
I'm sure you're familiar with the other conventional means of accomplishing similar effects. Antimagic shell, a deity of higher rank using its own abilities to intercede, etc.Quote:
Is there an example of anything else doing this?
The first vampire was Kanchelsis.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko
Awaken and similar spells use a mote of the caster's own soul energies (XP), so it should be no surprise that the result is a being which is initially friendly to the caster and speaks the caster's language. Animals already have souls, neither constructs nor sand gain them by being awakened (these beings remain of the construct type) and undead simply take on a flimsy mockery of a soul (awaken undead is dispellable). Awakening a plant is the only outlier, and it's debatable whether the plant actually gains a soul (many plants have mental attributes but are driven by animi rather than true souls) or just profits from the catalytic infusion of the caster's own soul-mote to become a more complex animus.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko
The Astral Plane. :smalltongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonexx
No, there's not. At best, speculation ponders that they might be the living embodiments of astral conduits, or nightmarish astral travelers from an unknown world of the Prime.
Well, it's used to measure the potency of their spell-like abilities and some supernatural abilities. Make of that what you will.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko
Quote:
why is that?
...which projects onto strength of convictions, sense of self, sense of identity... all things which are crucial for creatures of belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRD
you have stated before that good and evil in the exemplar races is not enough of a catalyst to form unique exemplarss
is there a reason why it would be enough to form unique elementals, like the princes of elemental good and evil? what explaination allows for that?
also curious, are there any races of bunny folk in D&D? we have cat folk, we have yak folk, we have all sorts of folk.. do we got rabbit folk? or even ratfolk like from warhammers skaven?
You're comparing apples and oranges. If I have an all-black figurine and I paint a black stripe on it, can you distinguish it from the other all-black figurines? Conversely, if I take an all-red figurine and add a black stripe, it is now distinctive. I don't understand the purpose of this question.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko
No, though hengeyokai can conceivably have a rabbit tribe, pookas can take on rabbit-like forms, and Gamma World (which is tangentially related to D&D in a few threadlike ways) has the hoops, a race of anthropomorphic rabbits.Quote:
also curious, are there any races of bunny folk in D&D?
Nezumi. Were-rats generally cover the niche, though.Quote:
or even ratfolk like from warhammers skaven?
ah so your saying it's basically taking any alignment that allows for elementals to form uniques, and only law and chaos that does so for exemplars. elementals become distinctive/unqiue just by taking alignment, in that sense.
since the ancient battorians, by your words, basically leveled up past the need for physcial forms... what would that leave baelphagor? would she be a high ranking unique ancient battorain or a lower ranking one in their terms because of her still retaining a woundable, physcial form unlike the rest of them?
I believe I read somewhere that those who worship overdeities such as Ao never receive anything as part of that worship, e.g. clerics don't get spells. The lack of a divine connection is not unlike that of the faithless. So would such overdeity worshippers end up in the Wall of the Faithless?
It's also stated in The Factol's Manifesto that Terrance, the Athar factol, gains spells from a simple "trust in the multiverse". His statblock reads that he gets spells from the Greater Unknown. Would he be a candidate for the Wall of the Faithless?
...no, I don't believe that's what I'm saying at all. I'm extremely confused by the thrust of this line of questioning. If there's a point I'm missing, getting to it would be a big help.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko
Given that Asmodeus was apparently able to recapture some of the lower-leveled ones and convert them into dogai despite their having ascended beyond physical form, I don't believe relative strength is at all demonstrated by the choice to do so. We'll never have enough information to usefully "scale" Baalphegor, but at the very least she's significantly stronger than dogai and still makes Asmodeus treat her with respect.Quote:
since the ancient battorians, by your words, basically leveled up past the need for physcial forms... what would that leave baelphagor? would she be a high ranking unique ancient battorain or a lower ranking one in their terms because of her still retaining a woundable, physcial form unlike the rest of them?
Yep. It's worth noting that cults and "ministries" of Ao are 1) more philosophical than religious in nature, and 2) naturally pressured to cease existing via Ao's stealthy redaction of his name from records and memories. Those who abandoned worship of another deity because "Ao's better" may be judged False instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by rigsmal
He would not. The "power" he venerates, such as it is, is not native to Faerun and its pantheon. Whether Terrance is from there or not, Kelemvor has no right to hold him for judgment and Terrance will be released into the Astral Plane, thence to meander... wherever Athar souls go.Quote:
It's also stated in The Factol's Manifesto that Terrance, the Athar factol, gains spells from a simple "trust in the multiverse". His statblock reads that he gets spells from the Greater Unknown. Would he be a candidate for the Wall of the Faithless?
Really? I thought he was just some vampire that ascended, but the first one... Is there any information about how he became a vampire, how he ascended to divinity, what his race was before and how long ago it happened?Quote:
Originally Posted by afroakuma
He was a half-elf, as far as I can tell using google. But how he became a vampire, now that's interesting.
@JoeytheNeko: The point is that it's not good and evil in particular, but rather alignment in general, that is unremarkable for an Outsider. Having an alignment is not going to make an Outsider somehow distinctive. "Golly, an Outsider with an alignment? Shocking!"
For an elemental, on the other hand, alignment is weird. As fro said, it's adding a black stripe to something red. Suddenly, it's distinctive.
@afroakuma.
sorry if it's confusing, I just find it facinating that good and evil won't let yugoloths and guardanials become unique, but it will let elementals.
I have more questions.
are you familiar with the world of rwby? how would you try to fit it into a D&D based system? in my perception, the idea of aura and semblance would be a form of incarnum, but what would your thoughts on the matter be?
According to 2nd ed Planescape material, Mephits are short-lived beings created by magic*. The 3rd edition monster manual has no such information, and 3rd ed sources seem to treat them as standard outsiders that have always been, have "normal" (for outsiders) life cycles, and even reproduce and have young offspring (see entries on the Mirror Mephit in EttDwP).
How would you rectify this seeming discrepancy for a 3.5 Planescape-influenced setting (ala Lord of the Iron Fortress, Bastion of Broken Souls, and Expedition to the Demonweb Pits)?
On a related note, how are Mirror Mephits summoned (Summon Mirror Mephit, EttDwP p. 209) from the Plane of Mirrors, since the PoM has no connection to any of the transitive planes (no access to the Astral, Ethereal, or Shadow planes)?
*Quote:
Evil powers on the Lower Planes create mephits using a variant of monster summoning IV that incorporates aspects of contact other plane. They use the substance of an elemental plane to create a servant, usually as a stopgap or a substitute for less loyal underlings. Mephits do not betray their creators but do seem to irritate them, and so they lead brief, troublesome lives. Quickly created and destroyed, they have no predetermined life span.
what artifacts are possessed by lords of the nine that are not mentioned in the fiendish codex 2? and why is a shriver a magical location?
Awesome!Quote:
Originally Posted by afroakuma
Since he's not a god though, I'm guessing he doesn't have a separate divine realm. Does he have a base somewhere? A castle (or pyramid?), or does he stay near a particular dead god?
Also, what race is his proxy?
so whats the deal with storm elementals? do they have any lore besides the MM3? are there elemental monotliths and primal storm elementals, which one can imply from their progression being the same as normal air elementals?
First timer in these threads - they are pretty awesome.
Four questions, in descending order of interest. Apologies if these are too many, I'm just curious.
- Is there any credence to the theory that the Demiplane of Shadow becoming the third Transitive is a divine act to obscure the true third transitive (because gods don't like mortals in the Ordial)? I am not sure if I've read this somewhere (maybe in these threads? they're huge!) or if I came up with it, I just remember some theory on the shadow plane being an illusion obscuring some cosmic truth - and I don't mean the supposed tower made of light that has all the colours stolen from the rest of the plane.
- What's the Spire(Outlands) made of? I've read faith, which sounds... weird but thematically appropriate. If it is faith, I'm picturing dwarven petitioners amassing on the base of the Spire to mine it for Moradin, impeded by Rilmani environmentalists :smalltongue:)
- Are the Githzerai some kind of creator/first race of the multiverse? Were they race-ing before it was cool?*
- Care to share the dark on the power who's spine was redecorated as Khin-Oin?
* The third point might need some clarification: I am asking because in your post here you mention them as signatories to the Draeden pact. But the Githzerai are an evolution / devolution of Gith(Race, not Bipolar Swordwielding Psycho)... so how can they be primordial? I probably hold to some misconception concerning the pact.
1. That looks a bit as if you stumbled upon The Shadow Lie, an obscure (pun intended) way of thinking that claims Shadow exists to hide certain truths about the multiverse. Believers of the Shadow Lie (like myself) think that any semblance of order in the multiverse is created through the Shadow. As long as I believe that Celestia is between Arcadia, the Outlands and Bytopia, I will be able to reach it only from there. Every other way is hidden by the Shadow. The Shadow Lie also claims that the Shadow didn't change into a new kind of plane, only our perception of it changed. No matter wether thats true or not, deities don't have anything to do with the change (or the Shadow Lie).Quote:
Originally Posted by Feantar
2. Everything on the Outer Planes is made of belief. To casual inspection the spire seems to be some kind of stone. As it is also comepletely invulnerable to any damage, there is no way say for sure. (And if you are barmy enough to try to mine it, the Rilmani start laughing at you.)
3. The pact mentioned in that post is obviously not as old as think. Whoever said that a pact dedicated to hiding information about the multiverses before this one had to be primordial? :smallwink:
It's not the most reliable story, since it draws on creation mythology and we all know how inconsistent that is, but one record paints him as a human god of some nature or other, possibly a demipower, who grew envious of the Seldarine and their creations and stole the vital force and inner beauty from the divine lifeblood being used to shape elves on whichever world, resulting in the emergence of the first vampires, whose curse propagated as they hungered to replace what had been stolen from them by Kanchelsis. No, there are no more details about anything described above, so don't ask.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzardok
See that's what you actually meant to ask, so you should have just asked that. There's no prohibition against guardinals and yugoloths being unique, they simply don't become unique by adding more of themselves to themselves - that would be silly. Why there aren't any natural ones that we know of is because neither pure good nor pure evil find a need for distinction either for purposes of hierarchy (law) or individuality (chaos). Yugoloths don't like seeing others rise above themselves because they're all petty and filled with spite, while guardinals lack ambition and a desire to be apart from others.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko
Nope.Quote:
are you familiar with the world of rwby?
Well, first of all, remember that the transition to 3E involved a major cosmic shift, so discrepancies tend to be covered up to some extent by that reordering. That said, even within 2E Planescape materials, both presentations of mephits exist, and I don't think it's actually a discrepancy. Mephits may have been created via magic, but they're not described as short-lived. It's quite likely that mephits managed to find ways to escape back to their planes of origin, where as beings of magic and elemental nature they happened to thrive and replicate (after all, they're not hard to make). Hell, the self-proclaimed "rulers" of Magma and Smoke are the mephits Chlimbia and Ehkahk, respectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by ksbsnowowl
The Plane of Mirrors is a strange place, effectively a Transitive Plane in its own right, connecting to mirrors. The spell uses a mirror as a medium, creating a conduit for the mirror mephit to manifest through. A spellcaster with Eschew Materials who can cast this spell has figured out how to address the mirror from a distance, such that its properties can be brought forth without having it near at hand for the specific purpose of summoning a mirror mephit.Quote:
On a related note, how are Mirror Mephits summoned (Summon Mirror Mephit, EttDwP p. 209) from the Plane of Mirrors, since the PoM has no connection to any of the transitive planes (no access to the Astral, Ethereal, or Shadow planes)?
That question is excessively open-ended with regards to how much digging I'd have to do. If we're talking about minor artifacts, the category isn't a useful distinction - most of the Lords of the Nine could reasonably possess copies of most minor artifacts, since they are not unique. If we're talking about major artifacts, you already know about those relevant from a personal combat standpoint. Anything else should be left up to the DM.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko
This is a confusing question. I assume you mean "instead of a magic item or artifact," to which you and I already know the answer is "because the author of the book wanted to make use of magical locations." Since I'm sure that won't satisfy you, I'll go with "because it's not something which is used." It's an assembly line of pain, a conveyor belt of suffering, a collection of elements that together form a machine at the heart of a factory of fear.Quote:
and why is a shriver a magical location?
He does not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronk
Nope. Some Athar like to believe he has a throne, but that's just a rumor.Quote:
Does he have a base somewhere?
No. The Guardian of Dead Gods is not findable. He chooses to manifest only when he needs to. He does not make himself available to be sought out.Quote:
does he stay near a particular dead god?
Human.Quote:
Also, what race is his proxy?
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyTheNeko
Sure why not.Quote:
are there elemental monotliths and primal storm elementals, which one can imply from their progression being the same as normal air elementals?
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feantar
Technically everything on the Outer Planes is made of faith. :smalltongue: The Spire is made of nondescript stone of some type, or at least appears to be.Quote:
What's the Spire(Outlands) made of? [/COLOR]I've read faith, which sounds... weird but thematically appropriate.
[QUOTE]Are the Githzerai some kind of creator/first race of the multiverse? Were they race-ing before it was cool?[/COLOR]
Not even a little bit. The githzerai are descended from the "forerunners," a humanoid race from the now-dead planet Pharagos, which was invaded by illithids. Their history paints them as older than some races (the gith rebellion took place something like ten thousand years ago) but they were anticipated by many other entities, most especially aboleths, who still have the best claim to being the first mortal race. By accident, mind you, but hey.
We don't actually know anything about that deity, though an old fan theory on Mimir.net suggested it was an evil deity named Xolotl who irritated other gods to the point that they tore him into pieces and gave them into the charge of various fiends. This has no basis in canon and I don't support it, but anyway.Quote:
Care to share the dark on the power who's spine was redecorated as Khin-Oin?
The pact was signed by those who know something, whether or not they knew something from personal observation. It's quite possible that there were ancient githzerai leaders who had seen some stuff, maaaaan.Quote:
I probably hold to some misconception concerning the pact.
This is a bit of a stretch for the topic of the thread.
But does anything elucidate further on Factol Montgomery's long-term plans for Sigil? The Factol's Manifesto says in no uncertain terms that she intends to elevate everyone in the city according to the philosophy of the Sensates, "shucking their physical bodies". But what precisely is the mechanism of this? And what information is inside The Secret History of Sigil that Duke Darkwood might use against the Lady of Pain?
Anyhow, thanks for all your answers. They're very well-formulated.
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by rigsmal
Darkwood found, either within those volumes or another source, a tale about a being who once confronted the Lady of Pain and was sealed within a gemstone rather than being slaughtered or mazed. His agents followed this record and eventually recovered the gem in question. It was not a good plan.Quote:
And what information is inside The Secret History of Sigil that Duke Darkwood might use against the Lady of Pain?