117 The Battle for Gobwin Knob 105

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Originally Posted by shamelessmerc

1) large numbers of Marbits are already 'inside' GK so it is at least possible for them to co-exist where there are in-hex physical barriers. Indeed we don't know how 'large' GK is in terms of the rules

2) interesting question, very interesting question, I am very curious indeed about that one... maybe the turn auto-ends if you don't move, maybe no-one in the history of erfworld has ever tried it.

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Not so. Gobwin Knob is not a single Hex - it is several Garrison squares, which must be defeated in a specific order to conquer the "city."

We're not going to see some sort of prolonged "street-fight" - Parson clearly has to take out the Marbits in the Tunnels somehow, or he will be in a lose-lose situation. I'm not so sure about the "volcano theory" since Parson is concerned about stack deployment, which means he's going to do some fighting. Far more likely will be some manner of counter-attack, possibly over the walls or possibly through secret passages in the tunnels, but a real attack is going to take place.

Parson might be concerned about stack deployment just to make sure they're not in the way of the devastation, if he does unleash the volcano or collapse the courtyard.

I notice that Ansom himself is standing outside the walls in the latest strip. That seems like a bit of a strategic blunder - he's directly in the line of fire. And if Parson's plan is a lava flood, that might leave Ansom trapped near the city walls if all the hexes around the base of the mountain fill with lava. I can only guess that Ansom is there to provide his leadership bonus to the troops in his stack and because of his own personal need to lead the charge into the city to salve his wounded ego.

Charlie must enjoy being surprised--he could have asked a much more specific question to determine what Parson was up to, such as "what do you estimate your chances are of having captured/croaked Ansom and obtaining the Arkenpliers by the end of this turn?" Since Parson specifically claimed that he could get the Arkenpliers, that would have been a reasonable question and would have inevitably revealed more about Parson's plans (since he would have had to mention the operational contingencies, as he did with the scenario Charlie actually gave him [Stanley's survival, no interference from Charlie]).

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Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter

Not so. Gobwin Knob is not a single Hex - it is several Garrison squares, which must be defeated in a specific order to conquer the "city."

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"zones" are not necessarily hexes. There may be special rules for assaulting a city hex.

I officially love Charlie now. Wasn't completely sure about him before, because he was playing it pretty close to the vest. Now he's an official uber-badass.

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Originally Posted by datalaughing

I officially love Charlie now. Wasn't completely sure about him before, because he was playing it pretty close to the vest. Now he's an official uber-badass.

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I'm somewhat in the camp Laurentio first staked out; Charlie is making his play in a way that makes him very unlikable to me. I like him as a character, right now, but not as a person. We'll see if that changes.

Re: hexes and zones of defense and multiple turns of street fighting: the rules for how GK works are apparently very complex. We haven't actually seen a hex map of the city and environs, so there's no real way to know whether there's a whole host of specialized rules involving cities or even Gobwin Knob specifically at work here.

There are ways that multiple turns of street fighting within a single hex could happen, though I can't see anybody choosing such a scenario. If two stacks are in the same hex and are lead, they can chose not to fight, and stacks can withdraw from combat as well. So it could happen.

Why, though? The aggressor would be breaking off because he can't win that round and doesn't want to keep sucking up damage. The problem is that the defender would then start HIS turn and autoheal all units' damage, then re-engage. It would be suicidal.

I begin to suspect what lies in store for the Marbits.

Namely, rocks fall, everybody dies. :smallbiggrin:

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Originally Posted by LordVader

I begin to suspect what lies in store for the Marbits.

Namely, rocks fall, everybody dies. :smallbiggrin:

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Or at least most people. With Golems for mopup.

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2) interesting question, very interesting question, I am very curious indeed about that one... maybe the turn auto-ends if you don't move, maybe no-one in the history of erfworld has ever tried it.

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Ansom: Not ending his turn? That's preposterous! Like having to share your turn with everyone else.

Also, in response to what a previous poster said about Charlie not caring about his Archons;
I think Charlie does, in fact, care much more about losing an Archon than Stanley or Ansom would care about losing say, a Piker. Now, Charlie could have just been acting for Parson's benefit, but it seemed fairly genuine. So he doesn't seem the type to ruthlessly throw away his archons unless he has a very good reason to.

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Originally Posted by LordVader

Also, in response to what a previous poster said about Charlie not caring about his Archons;
I think Charlie does, in fact, care much more about losing an Archon than Stanley or Ansom would care about losing say, a Piker. Now, Charlie could have just been acting for Parson's benefit, but it seemed fairly genuine. So he doesn't seem the type to ruthlessly throw away his archons unless he has a very good reason to.

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Well, he knows them by name and expresses sorrow at their loss, which is vastly more than His Toolship has done. Yeah, he seems to actually care about them. That's a good sign in a boss.

Still though, he's not averse to cutting deals with or recruiting the person who croaked one, so at his heart he's certainly a businessman. Which is a *bit* different than the original Charlie, if my memory serves. Didn't he (in his original TV incarnation) have strong ethics regarding what he'd do and for whom?

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Originally Posted by Occasional Sage

I'm somewhat in the camp Laurentio first staked out; Charlie is making his play in a way that makes him very unlikable to me. I like him as a character, right now, but not as a person.

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Stanley's "strong personal dislike" for him seems a lot more reasonable (rather than just an example of him being a Tool). Perhaps they had dealings in the past, and Stanley felt (probably with justification) that Charlie had put one over on him.

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Originally Posted by SteveMB

Stanley's "strong personal dislike" for him seems a lot more reasonable (rather than just an example of him being a Tool). Perhaps they had dealings in the past, and Stanley felt (probably with justification) that Charlie had put one over on him.

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Put one over on Stanley? Charlie wouldn't even have to try. It would be as easy as lyin'.

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Originally Posted by Occasional Sage

Well, he knows them by name and expresses sorrow at their loss, which is vastly more than His Toolship has done. Yeah, he seems to actually care about them. That's a good sign in a boss.

Still though, he's not averse to cutting deals with or recruiting the person who croaked one, so at his heart he's certainly a businessman. Which is a *bit* different than the original Charlie, if my memory serves. Didn't he (in his original TV incarnation) have strong ethics regarding what he'd do and for whom?

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Hmmm, it'd be pretty damn funny if this guy was basing himself off of reruns of an old TV show.

Also, on an unrelated note, while his quest for the Arkentools has caused him to lose most of his battles, I suspect the air group from the RCC will be in for a nasty suprise when they actually have to fight him. For all his faults as a strategist, he seems to be an extremely competent warrior, and the fact that he's riding a massive fire-breathing dragon and carrying an arcane artifact only makes him even more intimidating.

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Originally Posted by SteveMB

Stanley's "strong personal dislike" for him seems a lot more reasonable (rather than just an example of him being a Tool). Perhaps they had dealings in the past, and Stanley felt (probably with justification) that Charlie had put one over on him.

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Yup. The Toolishness comes, in my opinion, when he refuses to even consider working with Charlie again. Charlie booped you over? Sucky. Keep your eyes open next time, and don't burn bridges.

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Originally Posted by LordVader

... and carrying an arcane artifact...

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Divine artifact. The Arkenhammer is a divine artifact.

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Originally Posted by Fuzzypaws

I notice that Ansom himself is standing outside the walls in the latest strip. That seems like a bit of a strategic blunder - he's directly in the line of fire.

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Well, not right now, since he's presumably in a different hex and we've seen no indication that anyone can fire outside their hex. He's right on the edge, yeah, but it doesn't really make a difference.

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Originally Posted by Justyn

Divine artifact. The Arkenhammer is a divine artifact.

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Semantics, semantics.
Divine/arcane whatever, it's still a ridiculously powerful magical object.

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Originally Posted by LordVader

Semantics, semantics.
Divine/arcane whatever, it's still a ridiculously powerful magical object.

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Plus, have you seen what it can do to walnuts?

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Originally Posted by xopher.tm

Plus, have you seen what it can do to walnuts?

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New theory: the Arkenhammer is a cooking tool. Lots of recipes for pigeon also include walnuts or walnut oil....

Or, alternately, one of the creators is an epicure (or both are) and was giving a shout out to a favorite meal.

The dialogue between Parson and Charlie is distressingly remniscent of how things often go between myself and a friend of mine. ESPECIALLY panels 8-11.

We're both very confident in our attempts to screw the other guy over (think of it as a friendly rivalry), while assuring the other that everything is going quite according to plan and such. Even going so far as to lay out the details of just how things are going in a means to impress the other.

It's a strange chemistry, but an amusing one. I suspect that Parson and Charlie will grow to be strong friends in the future regardless of their relative positions of employment... simply because of how mutually manipulative they are.

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Originally Posted by SteveMB

Continuing to work for Stanley would be a bit difficult if Stanley found out that he'd offered the Arkenpliers to Charlie (and it would obviously be even worse if Charlie actually ends up in possession of it).

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Um, that was not how I read it. I saw it as Parson saying, "If you hold off one turn, I'll beat Ansom and be in possession of the Arkenpliers, and then you can grab both them and the gauntlet off of me if you have the balls to try." He wasn't offering a deal. He was trying to convince Charlie that he would be able to get greater benefits from attacking if only he just waited a turn.

That, incidentally, is an old and familiar trick in multi-sided games, playing for time. Interesting to see it work here, too.

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Originally Posted by Justyn

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Originally Posted by Quimper

Wouldn't it be fun if Parson actually managed to get the alliance to think Charlie switched sides? If they attacked him (don't know how, since the units are flying), it could change all the odds..

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And it would fully cement Parson as a Magnificent Bastard.

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It would not only put Parson on the grand list of Magnificent Bastards. It would be proof that Parson sacrificed every one of said Bastards upon some sort of Satanic altar and ate their flesh in order to steal their mana. And, yes, that means he killed even Satan himself on his own goddamn altar.

Parson is in danger of becoming Magnificent Bastardism incarnate. If he pulls it off, rather than having to be saved by an author-induced asspull, he will have ascended to a state we don't even have words to describe.

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Originally Posted by Hectonkhyres

It would not only put Parson on the grand list of Magnificent Bastards. It would be proof that Parson sacrificed every one of said Bastards upon some sort of Satanic altar and ate their flesh in order to steal their mana. And, yes, that means he killed even Satan himself on his own goddamn altar.

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Why are all of the siggable lines too big to put in a sig on these boards with the current limitations?

Wait, what other kind of alter would Satan have?:smalltongue:

Man, you guys have really low standards for Magnificent Bastardhood.

Sure, convincing Ansom that Charlie had betrayed him and causing actual bloodshed would be nice (though implausible), it doesn't even hold a candle to some other bearers of the M.B. title. Check out The One True Wiki to see what I mean.

Parson's manipulative and all, but that's just being a Chessmaster. With the way he's been baiting Ansom, he might even be a Manipulative Bastard, but really, compared to Charlie?

Charlie is not only in the middle of a double-cross, but he has also successfully played Parson over the Mathemancy Gauntlet, not to mention made it painfully clear how weak a position Parson has. In the meantime, he's been making good Schmuckers from the RCC and has been always looking out for Number One. He remains king of his castle and has everything right where he wants it... and is laughing all the way to the bank! :smallamused:

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Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter

Man, you guys have really low standards for Magnificent Bastardhood.

Sure, convincing Ansom that Charlie had betrayed him and causing actual bloodshed would be nice (though implausible), it doesn't even hold a candle to some other bearers of the M.B. title. Check out The One True Wiki to see what I mean.

Parson's manipulative and all, but that's just being a Chessmaster. With the way he's been baiting Ansom, he might even be a Manipulative Bastard, but really, compared to Charlie?

Charlie is not only in the middle of a double-cross, but he has also successfully played Parson over the Mathemancy Gauntlet, not to mention made it painfully clear how weak a position Parson has. In the meantime, he's been making good Schmuckers from the RCC and has been always looking out for Number One. He remains king of his castle and has everything right where he wants it... and is laughing all the way to the bank! :smallamused:

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That's it! I'm starting a discussion thread for the TV Tropes article here on GITP.

...Has Parson ever factored in his own combat capabilities? I mean, a lot of the weaker units seem like things he could smash up without a problem, being a good size larger than most humanoid units.

I imagine Charlie didn't ask for specifics because they'd use up more calculations if he was wrong, even about a small factor. Not to mention it'd give his hand away. I mean, it's not as though he'd need to drive home an already obvious point.

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Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter

Parson's manipulative and all, but that's just being a Chessmaster. :

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Ok. Lets run this over. To me it looks like Parson put himself and that artifact down as bait for Charlie in what looked like an attempt to simply outbid Ansom. In reality, he was trying to get the mercman himself to come over to the dark side and try to take everything of value on both sides in a play to become the most powerful being in existence. Now, having positioned Charlie so that it looks like he is going to slit the throat of whoever wins, he can watch as both sides self annihilate in a frenzied orgy of self destruction... and he comes out smelling like a rose, possibly with both an arkentool and an absurdly defensible city under his control. And a very damaged Charlie owing him the god of all favors and dependent on him for survival now that most of his shocktroops are croaked and he has been accused of outright betraying two different allies simultaneously. And he does it smiling while a blade is practically against his throat, metaphorically speaking at least.

I'm sorry, I classify that as Magnificent Bastard material. If he pulls it off, he is a Magnificent bastard.

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Originally Posted by tanonx

...Has Parson ever factored in his own combat capabilities? I mean, a lot of the weaker units seem like things he could smash up without a problem, being a good size larger than most humanoid units.

I imagine Charlie didn't ask for specifics because they'd use up more calculations if he was wrong, even about a small factor. Not to mention it'd give his hand away. I mean, it's not as though he'd need to drive home an already obvious point.

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To quote Master Yoda: "Size matters not! Judge me by my size, do you?"

To put it another way, I once saw a 10 year old black belt utterly destroy an adult greenbelt in kumite (sparring in karate, if you are unfamiliar with the term). The greenbelt was about 10 years older, a good 2+ feet taller and probably upwards of 50 pounds heavier, all of which was from height and muscle. It was all the greenbelt could do to block and evade the jumping kicks aimed at his head. The 10 year old was in total control of the situation.

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Originally Posted by Hectonkhyres

Ok. Lets run this over. To me it looks like Parson put himself and that artifact down as bait for Charlie in what looked like an attempt to simply outbid Ansom. In reality, he was trying to get the mercman himself to come over to the dark side and try to take everything of value on both sides in a play to become the most powerful being in existence. Now, having positioned Charlie so that it looks like he is going to slit the throat of whoever wins, he can watch as both sides self annihilate in a frenzied orgy of self destruction... and he comes out smelling like a rose, possibly with both an arkentool and an absurdly defensible city under his control. And a very damaged Charlie owing him the god of all favors and dependent on him for survival now that most of his shocktroops are croaked and he has been accused of outright betraying two different allies simultaneously. And he does it smiling while a blade is practically against his throat, metaphorically speaking at least.

I'm sorry, I classify that as Magnificent Bastard material. If he pulls it off, he is a Magnificent bastard.

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You seem to be assuming that Parson engineered this situation. His comments to Wanda in panel 11 of this strip indicate that he feels used, not that he tricked Charlie into coming.

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Originally Posted by Occasional Sage

Well, he knows them by name and expresses sorrow at their loss, which is vastly more than His Toolship has done. Yeah, he seems to actually care about them. That's a good sign in a boss.

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Well it is sign of a skilled boss, that fact that Stanley can't remember names says more about Stanley than it does about Charlie...

to quote, with my own subtexts in brackets:

*sigh* It would be Jaclyn (the hotheaded idiot, it was only a matter of time)
I'll miss her (she had a great ass)
Anyway, a new opportunity has presented itself. Let's talk some buisness.

I am intentionaly being callous here to highlight the fact that I think people are reading to much into Charlie's contrition

That karate example is terrible. Sure sparring the kid controls it all and dominates.. but in an actual fight? the adult would crush him.