What is the best type of "Leader" Or "Buffer" for a Military style campaign?

I'm in this DnD 3.5 Military campaign and I was wondering what type of character would emulate the "Leader role" the most?

I am envisioning a character that could provide a large amount of benefits to the troops - both numerically and qualitatively. This could be through spells, maneuvers, psionics, etc. I'm extremely open minded.

At the same time, keep in mind that this is a military campaign. The PC's (there are only 3 of them) command an army of up to 500 - 1000 men at a time, and that's only the beginning. With promotions, etc. that number is likely to increase dramatically.

Obviously I can't provide buffs to a thousand men at once, but what can I use to get the most mileage out of so many troops?

Marshal, from the Miniatures Handbook springs to mind.

Depending on flavor you could also go with some Bard levels, or even Dragon Shaman.

EDIT: The Purple Dragon Knight from Forgotten Realms could also add some flavor here.

I thought about those classes, but this is intended to be an extremely hard campaign. With only 3 of us, we have to watch out for the whole army. Particularly since this is supposed to be "hard mode" and we're all on our own (no supply lines...no allies....the whole thing :smalltongue:)

Would a Bardsader or a Bardblade work?

Or is a spellcaster more appropriate?

If you want a spellcaster, War Weaver is a good option when it comes to prestige classes.

If you're running around with a lot of low-HD mooks, Bard/Crusader/Warchanter can replace their BAs with that of the highest-BA creature in the area, as well as dropping Dragonfire Inspiration and Shock Trooper-type benefits (a level 20 Warchanter can easily be looking at a couple dozen L1 commoners with +40 attack/+7d6 damage after one action).

For smaller groups, War Weaver and DMM can fuel strong arcane and divine buffers respectively. And with third-party supplements, Worldthought Medic does a very good job for psionics.

I have 2 important questions;;
What power level are you playing at, are you teir 4?, 3, 2, 1, are you using infinite loops, how about StP Erudites with body fuel and strongheart vest?, would domain wizard be too powerful? This is extremely important.

Also, what is the make-up of the army, with a group that size you will probably want a very high level Cleric, after all divinations, mass buffs, disease cures, revives, healing, turn undead, and spells to root out spies like Zone of Truth and Detect Evil will be essential. Will you have underlings for this or will you have 500-1000 1st level warriors.

Going something like Fighter 4 / Marshal 2 / Warrior Skald 1 / War Chanter 10 / x 3 could be nice.

Where x is either more levels of Warrior Skald, levels in Dawncaller (it's adaptation section mentions non-Goliath Dawncallers) or levels in Seeker of the Song.

Note that Warrior Skald is a 3.0 prc that has never been updated so you probably have to check with your DM about it's legality.

For those who want to know: The army is roughly 1200 men in size. They are comprised mainly of level 1 NPC Warriors (or other NPC classes as appropriate) with varying levels of equipment. There are NO supplies left - supplies must be foraged or looted as we go along. There are:

-600 spearmen, lightly armed and almost no armor (9 miles/day, 16 miles/day forced)
-300 axemen, lightly armed and armored (8 miles/day, 15 miles/day forced)
-100 blunt melee, moderately armed and lightly armor (8 miles/day, 15 miles/day forced)
-100 bowmen, lightly armed and almost no armor (8 miles/day, 15 miles/day forced)
-20 scouts, no arms or armor and each possessing a drab horse (15 miles/day, 25 miles/day forced)
-80 unequipped troops, you are ordered to protect them until they can be equipped (they are trained for melee) (9 miles/day, 16 miles/day forced)
-small amounts of carts/horses to pull extra supplies



We are up against 3 enemies - one of which is a navy and the other has mages. And those aren't even the enemies that declared war on us. They're harassing while we're in a war and just looking for a moment of weakness to strike.


What should I build? I will be Level 6 with 4000 gp.


I was thinking Bard -> Warchanter for the ability to inspire large amount of troops and lead from the front.

Or should I become a spellcaster and lead from the back?

One of the other PCs are planning on going Focused Specialist Conjurer -> focusing on Summoning route.

What should I do?

what terrain are you in? cuz those movement rates seem terribly low
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#overlandMovement


make sure someone gets access to draconic auras somehow;
the dragon shaman vigor aura will be helpful free healing for an army that size.

I suggest bard/warchanter, with Dragonfire Inspiration to add a bunch of damage to your troops.

You should probably get a Howling Helm as soon as you can. It costs 20 000 gp, but it amplifies your voice to the volume of 20 men shouting, letting everyone within 6 miles hear you. That lets you dragonfire inspiration for the entire army, I think.

War chanter is certainly strong, but all of the effects are short ranged, so straight bard might be better. You could consider going into Sublime Chord at higher levels as an alternative.

Think about taking the Touch of Healing reserve feat: It lets you keep your army at half health, although you might spend a while healing. Maybe a race that doesn't need to sleep would be best, to give you more spare time.

Have you considered Artificer? Make enough Create food and water traps and you don't need to forage, giving your army a huge advantage. An unlimited healing item would also be useful, and a scroll of teleportation circle can be a game changer.

What level are you? Around level 9, characters can single-handedly eliminate large enemy militaries of low level characters.

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Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx

What level are you? Around level 9, characters can single-handedly eliminate large enemy militaries of low level characters.

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This reminds me of a bloodstorm blade build that used great cleave to take down an entire army in a round. Using great cleave basically lets you wipe out armies from level 9 rather than from level 15.

I'm away from my books, but if I recall correctly, there is a giant masterwork horn in Song and Silence that giants can use to confer the benefits of their music to all allies within a mile. It may make Bard a more compelling class option.

On Warchanter, the class is awesome at ECL 15+, but it's kind of rubbish until you get there. With a starting level of 6, you'll probably want to avoid it for a straight bard of some kind (probably straight bard or the Bard/Virtuoso/Sublime Chord combo; I've heard good things about mixing inspire courage with aura builds, but I'm not personally aware of anything that makes auras especially great).

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Originally Posted by Randomguy

This reminds me of a bloodstorm blade build that used great cleave to take down an entire army in a round. Using great cleave basically lets you wipe out armies from level 9 rather than from level 15.

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Eh, I was more thinking of a Druid that acts as a high altitude strategic stealth bomber, but whatever.

http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/....php?cid=54924

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Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx

What level are you? Around level 9, characters can single-handedly eliminate large enemy militaries of low level characters.

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6th level.

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Originally Posted by Darius Kane

6th level.

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You are already pretty close to obsoleting an army, if not individually, at least as a cohesive group... are you *sure* you want to focus on making your army better rather than just annihilating all enemy armies by yourselves? And the navies too.

6th level isn't that high. His army >> him.

Bard doesn't seem to have a limit on the number of allies he can inspire courage in as long as he can hear them. Though I wonder how the DM is tracking that bonus on 500 soldiers. Handwaving could ruin everything.

Duration is also a problem unless he spends all his actions on playing music for hours on end. He'd have to be undead or some such to not tire. If there's anything with a long range and unlimited duration then that would work better even at a +1.

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Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx

You are already pretty close to obsoleting an army, if not individually, at least as a cohesive group... are you *sure* you want to focus on making your army better rather than just annihilating all enemy armies by yourselves? And the navies too.

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The other PCs are probably going to focus on that type of stuff. I am more interested in using the tools I have - namely 1200 warriors that have to follow me.

After all this is like a Free Leadership - why not?

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Originally Posted by ericgrau

6th level isn't that high. His army >> him.

Bard doesn't seem to have a limit on the number of allies he can inspire courage in as long as he can hear them. Though I wonder how the DM is tracking that bonus on 500 soldiers. Handwaving could ruin everything.

Duration is also a problem unless he spends all his actions on playing music for hours on end. He'd have to be undead or some such to not tire. If there's anything with a long range and unlimited duration then that would work better even at a +1.

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Do you know anything that can provide so long range and long duration buffs? Even later on? :smallconfused:

I would suggest Evangelist as a prestige class on a bard(page 39 Complete Divine.)

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Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx

You are already pretty close to obsoleting an army, if not individually, at least as a cohesive group... are you *sure* you want to focus on making your army better rather than just annihilating all enemy armies by yourselves? And the navies too.

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But what if they send wave after wave of their own men until their spells run out?!?

The masterwork instrument in question is the alphorn, from song and silence. It allows you to affect all allies within 1d10 miles (yep, miles) with your song(s).

The commander doesn't stand around buffing others in the party - he has people to do that for him. What he does do is to direct the battle. For this he needs a couple of things:

• Communication - when he gives orders they need to be heard. Spells like Message can help here, but a set of Rings of Communication can do the job as well.
• Information - he needs to know what is going on so that he can make the right decisions. Good lines of communication from his troops is only half the picture. Things like clairvoyance/clairaudience can help here.
• Influence - he needs to be able to get people to follow him without questioning his abilities or decisions. High Charisma helps, as do abilities like those of the Legendary Leader from Heroes of Battle.

When it comes time to do battle, he needs to be able to hold his own - he should expect to be targeted by the enemy. A good tank class could help his survivability in these instances. Knight or Crusader make good choices here.

I am sorry, but i have too...
Wizard 20 :smallbiggrin:
or any Tier 1 caster, really.

You have knowledge on your skill list, take history (that includes wars) and tactics. Now you have a General.
A General does not fight, he does not help the troops pack their lunch, he does not interfere with the battle very much at all. He works on a strategic level, not tactical. He needs to decide where the fight takes place, decide who is doing the fighting (both friendly and enemy forces), and need to decide how both sides are getting reinforcements and supplies.
A good General can, with proper planing and intel, make those decisions.
You said yourself that buffing 500+ common soldiers is not an option, so why even try by taking a support class that is meant to support 5-15 already powerful characters?

Focus on Divination to know what the enemy is doing and plane accordingly.
As a very nice added bonus, take some spells for large scale battle field control, think along the lines of divide-and-conquer, block pathways of supplies, chose where the battle will take place, and how both sides will get there.
Make the terrain your friend; it is easier to fight an enemy that has been walking for miles though mud and thorns, didn't have a restful night in weeks, and is low on rations.

I mean think about it. You now know what the enemy is doing right now, and what he is planing. Now combine this with the ability to shape the battle field to be the most advantages for your side.
need high ground? done!
need to divert a rivet to block a path? done!
need to move troops fast? done!
need a diversion? done!

IRL the army that is better equipped, has more soldiers, and/or better soldiers does not always win. As a matter of fact, that is probably one of the least important factor.
If you know what someone is doing, where someone will be, and if you can plan accordingly; that wins battles.

Think Teutoburg Forest, 12,000 Germanic tribes men vs. 36,000 professionally trained Roman Legionnaires.
The tribes men knew the area, knew who was coming and had time to prepare, but were mostly made up of farmers that only fought when their tribe was in trouble; the Romans where trained and battle tested, they had the best weapons and armor of the time, but they knew nothing of the area, had no idea who they where fighting, and where on the move.
casualties on the Roman side: ca.20,000
casualties on the Germanic side: unknown (but they had enough left to keep going and clean out ALL Roman forts east of the Rhine)


On a last note, if you play "D&D" on this level of scale it is a completely different game, and the normal mechanics don't work very well. That being said, I have done it in the past and it is a lot of fun!

You should maybe look at this...

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=3065.0

But that doesn't really address 'army-wide buffs'.

Some other people will be able to talk about buffs that work for the entire front of an army!

(1) Take a bard
(2) Optimise Inspire Courage or Dragonfire Inspiration to taste
(3) Cast the second level bard spell Resounding Voice from Heroes of Battle, which basically extends it out 100 feet per caster level
(4) Negotiate that all troops are "allies" and therefore affected by bardic bonuses
(5) Profit!

Or, in simpler terms, if defending
(1) Take a druid
(2) Advance to level 12
(3) Cast Energy Resistance (Cold), Freedom of Movement, and Endure Elements
(4) Move about half a mile in front of enemy army
(5) Cast Blizzard from Frostburn
(6) Singlehandedly end invasion.

Blizzard, Boreal Wind, Call Avalanche, Control Winds... LOTS of good Druid spells to destroy armies...

It seems like there are two main methods: Bards, or a tier 1 caster.

Out of all the Tier 1 caster, which would be the most appropriate?

EDIT:

Just as a note, I would like to focus on the ability to LEAD an army, and not destroy one.

Since you're not liking Bard you could Go Bard2/paladin of freedom x and take the Initiate Of Milli Feat to let your paladin and bard levels stack for the purposes of bardic music. You'll be less powerful than a straight bard and MUCH less powerful than an optimized Bard->Virtuoso->Sublime chord but you will look shiny with your fullBAB/platemail/aura of courage. Since Maintaining Performance is a Non-action in 3.5 in either case buffing your army won't interfere in the least with whatever melee or magical build you're following up with.

Even a simple Clairaudience (hear what the enemy commander is saying) and Message (relay your orders quickly and safely to your subordinates in the field) may prove very useful in a battle, strategically.

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Originally Posted by JKTrickster

It seems like there are two main methods: Bards, or a tier 1 caster.

Out of all the Tier 1 caster, which would be the most appropriate?

EDIT:

Just as a note, I would like to focus on the ability to LEAD an army, and not destroy one.

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It depends on what flavor of thing you want to do for the T1s.

Do you want to literally change the battlefield to help your troops? Consider Druid.

Do you want to spread buffs around to your allies, making them better? Consider the Cleric.

Do you want to lock down chunks of an opposing army? Try Wizard/Sorceror.

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Originally Posted by Randomguy

I suggest bard/warchanter, with Dragonfire Inspiration to add a bunch of damage to your troops.

You should probably get a Howling Helm as soon as you can. It costs 20 000 gp, but it amplifies your voice to the volume of 20 men shouting, letting everyone within 6 miles hear you. That lets you dragonfire inspiration for the entire army, I think.

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Or you could buy a masterwork war drum (CScoundrel) for 1/1,000 the price and everyone could hear you from 20 miles away.