Originally Posted by
DMThac0
How so? If the player is given the information, given a choice, and given agency to do as they please, how is the DM going against the player?
If the information was withheld, the fact it was a dragon's lair or that there were spikes in the pit, that is DM vs Player. If there were no options to avoid death, such as run away or use a rope to climb down, that is DM vs Player. I get that there are DMs who do this, and they are doing their position an injustice.
As the DM, is it their job to go "Hey, guys, this is a dragon's lair, he's got a CR of 15, your total party level is an average of 6, you probably can't win. Don't go in there."
or
is it's the DM's job to go "You walk into the cave and the first thing you note is the walls have gouges in them, like some large and very sharp object tore through the stone as if it were nothing. There are bones of creatures littered about, many of them seem to be from creatures as large or larger than a horse. There's a smell in the air, it's an acrid odor, it makes the back of your throat itch and your eyes burn."
The first one will save the players and not hide any information from them, guaranteeing that it's not DM vs Player. Where as the 2nd one gives a description from the eyes of the characters and could, potentially, be misinterpreted and cause a death at the hands of a black dragon. Is that Dm vs player or is it giving a narrative?
Giving the players information doesn't always come in the black and white regurgitation of the information from the books, it's a colorful narrative from the PC's perspective (or close to it). What the players do with that information could, and should, lead to their deaths if they do not take the time to realize what's being given to them, or simply choose to do something irrational.