Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
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Originally Posted by
HandofShadows
In the future you should ignore your gut. :smallfrown: Wanda was a caster for Banhammer and was "seen" in one of the flashback pannels when Jillian told her story.
Oh, fer...
OK, that's the woes of forum miscommunication for you... you can't assume everyone has read all of your previous statements.
I'm arguing (well, not arguing, I guess, as there are no clear evidence for or against my theory, so I merely drop it out there) that Wanda was a Croatan Croakamancer whose side was annihilated by Ansom before she became a Faq unit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandofShadows
There is one thing that speaks fairly stongly against Wanda being picked up. Her eye's. Only people we know to be from Faq (other than Parson of course) have had normal human eyes or at least they have a white of the eye.
:smallamused:
There is something that speaks fairly strongly against Wanda being a Faq native. Her skin. Only people we've seen from Faq (other than Wanda and Jack) had olive-colored skin or darker.
:smallbiggrin: I'm just splitting hairs, here, alright, I admit it. Let's just not go down the road, until more clear evidence comes up, OK? Yonder lies an argumentation quicksand. Trying to posit a unit's origin based on small clues like that will only lead to refuting and counter-refuting ad nauseam.
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
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Originally Posted by
SteveD
And what do we know of the plaid?
Still not convinced. There's nothing to say that Wanda popped as a Faq unit, or anything connecting a native American tribe to an eastern-philosophical tribe. #54 can be dismissed as coincidental due to the time she spent in Faq.
I don't think 'Croatan' was picked at random. Its clearly a reference to something.
I do want to point something out.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0091.html
Look what two people are up and front for Banhammer's lectures in the third panel. If you are paying attention, it is Jack and Wanda. Maybe the smile threw you on Wanda, but there is a little skull in her hair (at least it looks like a skull to me). And maybe you are not use to seeing Jack not looking sickly grey, but here is another pre-fall of Faq picture of him. And the skin tone is exactly the same and hair style closer.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0119.html
Which leads me
I don't have an exact understanding of the relationship between Wanda & Jack with Stanley. But what is clear is that Wanda and Jack are willing to and skilled at manipulating Stanley.
My personal theory is that Banhammer had a plan to bring peace and freedom to ErfWorld, not just all of his kingdom. True peace and freedom. And it hinged on collecting attuned Archentools and using them to remake the Erfworld. When Faq fell, Jack and Wanda are still dedicated to that plan. They are not so much loyal to Stanley, they need him to finish their plan. And if you think about it Stanley makes the perfect place holder for a bearer of an arkentool until the plan is completed.
1) He is attuned to his tool, and does anyone in Erfworld know how that is suspecifically happens?
2) He is a great warrior (It would be hard to take them away from him)
3) He is a horrible leader (This makes him dependant on underlings such as Wanda to get things done, while giving you oppurtunities to forment a coup later)
4) He is easily manipulated and often unaware it is happening.
While I think any of the 3 possiblities are still possible and not mutually exclusive to it, I think there is 4th meaning to her words. Ansom has stolen her dream of freedom and peace (or whatever she wants to do with a complete set of archentools). When you compare freedom and peace for Erfworld against 2800 undead, it pales in comparision.
Arguments for:
1) Wanda did something to Archenpliers in the fight and wanted to be touched by them. She obviously knows more about the Archentools than she is letting on. That is ultimately why Ansom withdrew. He feared that Wanda knew more and could take them away if given a chance.
2) Wanda has a dark determined personality and a deeply buried tenderness. This screams to me of someone who has had great hopes and expectations dashed.
3) Charlie wants the Archentools BAD. Basically Charlie is the master of Information. If Wanda knows of a way to use the Archentools to take control of the world, then he likely does also.
4) Many games (especially video games) have a "Special Win" circumstance and Erfworld runs on game mechanics. For example Civilation has Space Race Victory & L5R has collecting all 5 Rings. Special Wins often don't make perfect sense, they are often hard to pull off, they are put in place to break stalemates, or they are put in place to end a game that could potentially run on to long or get boring. To me collecting a full set of Archentools with attuned users smacks of "Special Win".
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alexei P
I'm arguing (well, not arguing, I guess, as there are no clear evidence for or against my theory, so I merely drop it out there) that Wanda was a Croatan Croakamancer whose side was annihilated by Ansom before she became a Faq unit.
Since Faq was a "closed territory" that no one knew was even there (and they wanted to keep it that way) why would they let Wanda in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alexei P
There is something that speaks fairly strongly against Wanda being a Faq native. Her skin. Only people we've seen from Faq (other than Wanda and Jack) had olive-colored skin or darker.
You need to take a look at panel with Jack and Wanda in it again. There where all types of skin colors in Faq.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alexei P
:smallbiggrin: I'm just splitting hairs, here, alright, I admit it. Let's just not go down the road, until more clear evidence comes up, OK? Yonder lies an argumentation quicksand. Trying to posit a unit's origin based on small clues like that will only lead to refuting and counter-refuting ad nauseam.
Well if you don't want to talk about it, then maybe you should not try and "prove" your point and THEN say let's not talk about it. Understand what I am saying? :smallamused:
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
Well, then, my bad again. I'm not trying to "prove" anything, here. At best, I try to keep the theory afloat. If you wish to consider eye shape as solid evidence, all right, you may. I don't. Yet.
As for how or why Banhammer would take Wanda and Jack in? Well, it fits with what we know of him - philosophical, humanitarian, likes casters. Being that Faq was indirectly involved in many far-away conflicts through mercenary work, it would be quite possible for a band of Faqqites to witness the fall of a side and take in a couple of homeless casters looking for upkeep.
You are right about the Banhammer+casters panel, though. My bad.
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
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Originally Posted by
HandofShadows
Since Faq was a "closed territory" that no one knew was even there (and they wanted to keep it that way) why would they let Wanda in?
Letting people in wouldn't be the problem....
That said, I don't see any reason to doubt that Wanda was native to Faq.
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You need to take a look at panel with Jack and Wanda in it again. There where all types of skin colors in Faq.
Such as Jillian, who is fair and blonde.
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HandofShadows
I think Wanda was a croakamancer in Faq. In the pic, part of her garment is red (all the people there seem to be casters and they are color coded for convience)
No, in the one pic we have of her in Faq, she's clearly dressed in green, although she still seems to have the skull pin in her hair.
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
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Originally Posted by
Aquillion
No, in the one pic we have of her in Faq, she's clearly dressed in
green, although she still seems to have the skull pin in her hair.
That proves only that she's always had a bit of an inner goth-kid.
Given Faq's propensity for mercinary work, and Banhammer's use of casters it seems logical that deployed units would have standing orders to bring free agents in from the cold, or to at least make the offer of a home and upkeep.
Given Jillians's feelings about staying home and her "special relationship" with wanda it doesn't seem like such an outside bet that perhaps she was the one to run across wanda and offer her a new home.
Has anyone else noticed that Wanda doesn't seem to care a whit about jack while Jillian has an almost sisterly care for him?
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
Has anyone put forward the theory that what Ansom took were the Arkenpliers, just a few panels before?
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aquillion
No, in the one pic we have of her in Faq, she's clearly dressed in
green, although she still seems to have the skull pin in her hair.
Take a look at what I said, and the picture again. Wanda is mostly in green, but not totaly.
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
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Originally Posted by
#94
Has anyone else noticed that Wanda doesn't seem to care a whit about jack while Jillian has an almost sisterly care for him?
We haven't seen Wanda and Jack in the same place very often. And where they where, Jack was out to lunch.
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
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Originally Posted by
Ganurath
Has anyone put forward the theory that what Ansom took were the Arkenpliers, just a few panels before?
This theory has been put forth (maybe not in this thread) and there are some people that think it's correct (I am one of them.)
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HandofShadows
We haven't seen Wanda and Jack in the same place very often. And where they where, Jack was out to lunch.
She's not the warm, fuzzy, caring type, I'd say.
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
While it is possible that Wanda was always a Faq unit, can't the ruler of a city choose which kind of caster gets popped? If so, does Faq really seem like a place which would pop a croakamancer? Of course, Banhammer didn't exactly get what he was hoping for in an heir, so perfect control is out of the question, but isn't this the unit type we're talking about - i.e. are all casters the same "type" as far as production orders are concerned? :smallconfused:
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
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Originally Posted by
The Minx
While it is possible that Wanda was always a Faq unit, can't the ruler of a city choose which kind of caster gets popped? If so, does Faq really seem like a place which would pop a croakamancer? Of course, Banhammer didn't exactly get what he was hoping for in an heir, so perfect control is out of the question, but isn't this the unit type we're talking about - i.e. are all casters the same "type" as far as production orders are concerned? :smallconfused:
It's pure speculation, but some feel that Wanda, with her aptitude for a variety of magics, was not operating as a croakamancer when in Faq. She could have been, for example, Faq's predictamancer.
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
We have also been told that casters are "rare" (too rare and valuable to risk). Why mention rare? If you could pop a caster any time you have the gold, afterall, valuable and rare would be the same thing.
It could be that casters aren't like other units, and pop naturally when certain circumstances are met without the warlord having direct control over the process.
Re: "S'lesss than what you took from me"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aquillion
We have also been told that casters are "rare" (too rare and valuable to risk). Why mention rare? If you could pop a caster any time you have the gold, afterall, valuable and rare would be the same thing.
To further the thought, imagine RTS games, like warcraft/starcraft/c&c. Actually, warcraft 3 is a good example. 'Hero' characters in that game are meant to be rare, and as such, have production restrictions inconsistent with the rest of the units. Similar restrictions could be in place in Erf. Hell, its possible that certain sides are only allowed to pop certain casters types(maybe only 1 or 2 per side).