Twin Hooks?

So a buddy of mine is dm'ing for the first time and asked me to play. He knows I'm a veteran player, and that if allowed to play a Tier 1 caster or a charging melee strongman (as I am wont to do), I will break the campaign. To remedy the situation, he had me list the Core classes from preferred to least preferred, and then randomly selected a class from my bottom for with a d4 roll.

And so I am a Monk. Blech.

Not really familiar with monks in general (I am rapidly familiarizing.) I recalled that a Shaolin Monk (Raising shields...fire resistance...) had been featured on the TV show Deadliest Warrior. Wielding the single deadliest weapon featured during the first season of the show: the Twin Hook Swords. So my question is: do they have stats? Do they exist? And if so, are they Monk weapons?

They definitely exist, not sure which source book. In the Secrets of Sarlona book there is a feat specifically for hook swords called Flying Tiger. It allows you to hook the swords together and use them as a reach weapon. Which they did in the show IIRC.

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Originally Posted by Teflonknight

They definitely exist, not sure which source book. In the Secrets of Sarlona book there is a feat specifically for hook swords called Flying Tiger. It allows you to hook the swords together and use them as a reach weapon. Which they did in the show IIRC.

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That feat is in secrets of sarlona because that's the book they gave the twin hook stats in.

Yes, they are a monk weapon. Not a terribly impressive one though.

Style points never hurt a damned thing.

Unless of course, those style points were earned while "Going out in a blaze of glory."

Regardless, reach on a monk seems nice. But, al-together, I'm not that big a fan of monks.

Let me guess, you're gonna be a character that hates fire mages above all else.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Epic

Let me guess, you're gonna be a character that hates fire mages above all else.

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If I was going that route, I'd be an earth-focused wu Jen, or a cleric with the earth domain. Goodness I love me some earthbenders.

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Originally Posted by Duboris

Regardless, reach on a monk seems nice. But, al-together, I'm not that big a fan of monks.

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I agree, the reach seems handy. And yes. I am also not a fan of monks, hence them being in my Bottom 4. But lemons, lemonade, door closes, window opens, yadda yadda yadda.

Just availed myself of Secrets of Sarlona. There's some great stuff for Monks in here! The ability to use Stunning Fist through Monk weapons? Deeeefinitely taking that feat next level.

There are, indeed, some scary monk feats in that book. One of which I believe is an improved version of flurry...

There's one that lets you choose a damage type for your unarmed strikes. And one that lets you remove someone's mental state with a successful stunning attack! Barbarians are a little less scary now that I can knock them out of Rage. And next level, I can do it through my twin hooks!

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Originally Posted by Uhtred

If I was going that route, I'd be an earth-focused wu Jen, or a cleric with the earth domain. Goodness I love me some earthbenders.

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And your character would be named Rocky (even though they already made that joke in the show:smalltongue:).

Counterquestion:
Why would you break the Campaign if you are T1 or a Charger? And how does he come to this conclusion?

Another Question:
What are the others? What sort of OP-Standard is going to be used? Depending on that what do you want to get from your Monk?

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Originally Posted by Uhtred

To remedy the situation, he had me list the Core classes from preferred to least preferred, and then randomly selected a class from my bottom for with a d4 roll.

And so I am a Monk. Blech.

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Am i reading it right? Your DM is forcing you to play one of the classes you don't like at all?:smallmad:

I can buy the need of "don't break the campaign", but seriously? there's not a middle ground, something not powerful but that you don't dislike?

Hey, previous posts, lay off the new DM.

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Originally Posted by Uhtred

He knows I'm a veteran player, and that if allowed to play a Tier 1 caster or a charging melee strongman (as I am wont to do), I will break the campaign.

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The original post gives the impression that Uhtred agrees with him DM (both that if he were allowed a T1, he would break the game, and that he should play something else), and he doesn't seem all that upset about it.

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Originally Posted by Killer Angel

Am i reading it right? Your DM is forcing you to play one of the classes you don't like at all?:smallmad:

I can buy the need of "don't break the campaign", but seriously? there's not a middle ground, something not powerful but that you don't dislike?

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Don't like and dislike are not quite the same. I don't like asparagus, but I'll eat it if it's there, I dislike brussel sprouts, and I wouldn't eat them without being reasonably compensated.

More importantly, he seems to agree with the DM that if he didn't play one of the weaker classes /classes with which he's unfamiliar he'd smash the game in spite of this not being his goal.

A clever player with solid op-fu can have a good time with a monk. It just takes a little bit of creativity.

If I read right, the OP is even kinda getting into the idea now.

Aberration Blood (Flexible Limbs preferred) and Inhuman Reach from Lords of Madness gets you greater reach. You can also pick up Starspawn for wings, Deepspawn for more grapple bonuses, and even Warped Mind to get Psionic feats.

I'd recommend going Ur-Sacred Fist or Suel Arcanamach/Enlightened Fist asap.

I know Pathfinder has hook swords, so the stats should be freely available online. Unfortunately, the only source I know of is Ultimate Equipment, and I think they're called something different there so I can't pinpoint them.

EDIT: Found them! The PF name for them is shang gou, and the original source appears to have been Ultimate Combat. They are martial light weapons, 1d4 slashing, and they have Disarm when used individually or gain Trip when wielding two of them together 1-handed. See here

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Originally Posted by laeZ1

The original post gives the impression that Uhtred agrees with him DM (both that if he were allowed a T1, he would break the game, and that he should play something else), and he doesn't seem all that upset about it.

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Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

Don't like and dislike are not quite the same. I don't like asparagus, but I'll eat it if it's there, I dislike brussel sprouts, and I wouldn't eat them without being reasonably compensated.
(snip)

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You have a point. Probably it was me, reading the thing in the wrong way.

How much monk are you required to have?

Because there's a feat in Secrets of Sarlona, Tashalatora, that stacks unarmed strike, flurry, and something else with any psionic class you multiclass into. Monk 1/Psychic Warrior X/Slayer X is a pretty cool thing to play, and a lot more monkish than straight monk.


Also, some people like optimizing characters/classes to the hilt, theoretically what could be occurring here is the DM allowing this guy to do that but making the class a monk so he stays in line with the rest of the unoptimized party.

If you can bear to be a goblin there's a comic that features a goblin monk who uses Twin Hooks.

Darn, when I clicked this thread I was expecting it to be about the old "evil twin" plot hook...

Check out the Oriental Adventures book, if you haven't, since there's fun flavorful monk-stuff in there.

Also, possibly grab the feat Improved Unarmed Strike from Tome of Battle. And maybe the feat that lets you grab a maneuver, like maybe one of the low level Shadow Hand ones that lets you flash step? (Or Dimension Door, for those that prefer that terminology.)

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Originally Posted by Deth Muncher

Check out the Oriental Adventures book, if you haven't, since there's fun flavorful monk-stuff in there.

Also, possibly grab the feat Improved Unarmed Strike from Tome of Battle. And maybe the feat that lets you grab a maneuver, like maybe one of the low level Shadow Hand ones that lets you flash step? (Or Dimension Door, for those that prefer that terminology.)

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Superior unarmed strike, you mean.

Shadow Jaunt (via martial study) is worth a feat, but it's use is limited being a standard action to activate. Shadow stride will come online awfully late and shadow blink is out for being too high a level, you couldn't take it before epic. I'd suggest one of the gem nightmare blade strikes from diamond mind. Concentration check to multiply damage when monks get concentration as a class skill? Yes please.

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Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

Superior unarmed strike, you mean.

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Yeah that one!

Sorry, I've been up all night, my brain's not where it needs to be.

Also, side note, back to the Oriental Adventures bit, take a peek at Tattooed Monk. It *may* have been reprinted in one of the Completes, but the point is, the idea of a guy covered in magic tattoos fighting with two hooked swords sounds moderately to excessively badass.

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Originally Posted by Deth Muncher

Yeah that one!

Sorry, I've been up all night, my brain's not where it needs to be.

Also, side note, back to the Oriental Adventures bit, take a peek at Tattooed Monk. It *may* have been reprinted in one of the Completes, but the point is, the idea of a guy covered in magic tattoos fighting with two hooked swords sounds moderately to excessively badass.

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It's in complete warrior. It's not the most powerful of PrC's, but it does have a certain coolness vibe that might validate as much as a 3 level dip.

Some sort of designer brain-fart gave it a dead level at 10, so it's effectively a 9 level prestige class.

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Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

It's not the most powerful of PrC's

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I remember some optimisation cheese (Possibly Biffoniacus?) that abused the Bellflower tattoo for some seriously broken stuff...

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Originally Posted by Killer Angel

Am i reading it right? Your DM is forcing you to play one of the classes you don't like at all?:smallmad:

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Yep. I was pretty pissed at first, but then I rolled for stats, picked some equipment, and had to adjust my mindset. In most campaigns I've ever played I have been a ToB frontline übercharger that blasts in with a huge weapon and mows down the mooks so the casters can blast the bosses. Lately I've had fun with Artificers and Clerics, to the point where I could competently build a Tier 1 caster if asked. With this, though, I'll essentially be the guy who stuns the bad guys so the Fighter and Rogue can do the mowing. Different, but interesting.

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Originally Posted by laeZ1

Hey, previous posts, lay off the new DM. The original post gives the impression that Uhtred agrees with him DM (both that if he were allowed a T1, he would break the game, and that he should play something else), and he doesn't seem all that upset about it.

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I was very, very angry when my race, class, and backstory were all randomly pulled out of a hat and thrust into my hands with vague promises of "You'll find a way to have fun, I know it. Just deal with it. I'm DM, that's why." But he's let me play with race and concept a bit, so instead of a friar tuck sort of monk I'm a wandering shaolin type, so that's been a bit better.

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Originally Posted by Rejakor

How much monk are you required to have?
...
Also, some people like optimizing characters/classes to the hilt, theoretically what could be occurring here is the DM allowing this guy to do that but making the class a monk so he stays in line with the rest of the unoptimized party.

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We're starting at level 5, and those five levels have to be single-classed, with at least 85% of our materials from Core, and he has to approve the stuff that isn't on a case-by-case basis. He has already said that whatever we do after those five levels is up to us, so I AM looking into prestige classes. Also yes. I have been allowed to make lemons out of lemonade, in a sense, in that EQUIPMENT can come from anywhere. :)

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Originally Posted by Deth Muncher

Check out the Oriental Adventures book, if you haven't, since there's fun flavorful monk-stuff in there.

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Oh yes. That was the first non-Core source material I asked after. Then I found out he wanted me to be a Friar...:P Also, ToB has been explicitly banned. He doesn't understand it very well and wants his campaign to go smooth. In his experience playing with me, ToB makes things not go smooth.

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Originally Posted by Deth Muncher

Also, side note, back to the Oriental Adventures bit, take a peek at Tattooed Monk. It *may* have been reprinted in one of the Completes, but the point is, the idea of a guy covered in magic tattoos fighting with two hooked swords sounds moderately to excessively badass.

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It IS! And I'm considering it. It was just house ruled that I can enter the Shintao Monk prestige class as a Lawful Neutral, though, and that one looks pretty cool, too.

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Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

It's in complete warrior. It's not the most powerful of PrC's, but it does have a certain coolness vibe that might validate as much as a 3 level dip.

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I agree. And, honestly, Monks strike me as needing all the Cool Factor they can get, although continuing to level up his unarmed strikes, speed, AC Bonus, and Flurry are enough reason for me to stay within Monk prestige classes to do so.

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Originally Posted by Uhtred

I was very, very angry when my race, class, and backstory were all randomly pulled out of a hat and thrust into my hands with vague promises of "You'll find a way to have fun, I know it. Just deal with it. I'm DM, that's why." But he's let me play with race and concept a bit, so instead of a friar tuck sort of monk I'm a wandering shaolin type, so that's been a bit better.

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Friar Tuck Monk was never the D&D concept, It was always a Wandering Shaolin thing, because Friar Tuck is a cleric variant.
If your GM wants you to be Friar Tuck then load up on Cleric Levels and be a Tier 1... but he changed his mind already so NM then.

Apparently, when explaining the concept, he sent me a picture of a Monk from Oblivion, in brown robes, with his fists up, as proof that western Monks did martial arts, too. I told him it was just a video game, and not a good one at that. And now I am a wandering Shaolin. All is well. :)

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Originally Posted by Uhtred

Apparently, when explaining the concept, he sent me a picture of a Monk from Oblivion, in brown robes, with his fists up, as proof that western Monks did martial arts, too. I told him it was just a video game, and not a good one at that. And now I am a wandering Shaolin. All is well. :)

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:smallfrown::smallannoyed::smallmad:

I love Oblivion...

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Originally Posted by Uhtred

I agree. And, honestly, Monks strike me as needing all the Cool Factor they can get, although continuing to level up his unarmed strikes, speed, AC Bonus, and Flurry are enough reason for me to stay within Monk prestige classes to do so.

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I'll just leave this here. (Even the the class as a whole doesn't fly, beg your DM to at least replace Fast Movement with Dance With the Elements, a.k.a. Distilled Cool Factor.)

Twin kama trippers are pretty good. Your modifier may be normal and you may not have reach but the sheer number of attempts is surprisingly useful. You can only use one in a grapple so your first level feat should probably be stunning fist. Your typical attack routine would be move + stunning kick or stunning kick + kama trip + kama trip(s). Much better than the standard trip + derp/hope for an AoO. It also compensates for monk BAB & AC because trip attempts are touch attacks and you effectively get a +4 to both against prone targets. I hope this goes without saying that str > wis on a monk, but doubly so on a tripper. Lots of potions of enlarge person will be very helpful. Mage armor is nice too. 2nd level feat should be combat reflexes of course.

You could trip with twin sickles too and they look identical to hooks except sickles are not monk weapons. So instead you settle for twin kamas that look like mini-scythes or you refluff them with DM permission.

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Originally Posted by ericgrau

Twin kama trippers are pretty good. Your modifier may be normal and you may not have reach but the sheer number of attempts is surprisingly useful. You can only use one in a grapple so your first level feat should probably be stunning fist. Your typical attack routine would be move + stunning kick or stunning kick + kama trip + kama trip(s). Much better than the standard trip + derp/hope for an AoO. It also compensates for monk BAB & AC because trip attempts are touch attacks and you effectively get a +4 to both against prone targets. I hope this goes without saying that str > wis on a monk, but doubly so on a tripper. Lots of potions of enlarge person will be very helpful. Mage armor is nice too. 2nd level feat should be combat reflexes of course.

You could trip with twin sickles too and they look identical to hooks except sickles are not monk weapons. So instead you settle for twin kamas that look like mini-scythes or you refluff them with DM permission.

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Secrets of Sarlona says I can use the hook swords to disarm, which, combined with stunning fist/Pharoah's Fist/Weakening Touch/Stunning Master, combined with our party's Dwarven Warpike wielding reach-fighter, should combine to ruin some mooks' days. :) Fail your save and you and everyone around you are stunned and sickened. And your weapons are gone. Also, the angry Dwarf woman with the oversized pike is just waiting for her turn.

Nice. The thing with disarm is that it's easier to succeed at than trip but not everything has weapons. Trip is more reliable. You might want to look into the campaign style. That said I got the idea for an attack spamming disabler from an old disarmer of mine. Getting surrounded, low on health and then saying "no no no" to each foe was quite something. I only wish I went monk for one more attack since my checks were so high anyway. Then came the first and only time I ran into a monster with locked gauntlets in all my days of playing D&D.

Dwarven Warpikes can trip, right? So theoretically, if I stun/disarm them, she can put them on the ground, and together we can AoO them when they get back up/try to retrieve their weapons/draw new weapons?

Almost except it's funnier than that. Your attack of opportunity happens before the triggering action so you can't disarm someone who's about to go for a weapon nor trip someone who's about to get up. You can disarm someone who's trying to stand up and trip someone who's trying to pick up his weapon. So they go back and forth from one frustrating problem to another. Well it looks like you have some nice teamwork going. Poor foes.

I believe rules compendium has rules for tripping a flying creature (it tumbles to the ground). You may want to look into rules for disarming objects to take out things like holy symbols, spell component pouches and macguffins. Retrieving a stored backup object provokes an attack of opportunity btw, unless they have a Heward's Handy Haversack.

We're also looking at our party Rogue using alchemical items, invisibility, and sneak attack, and probably boots of flying. So we'll stun, trip, immobilize with tanglefoot bag, disarm, and collectively AoO foes while the Rogue sneak-attacks invisibly with a longbow from 30ft up, all the way down to negative HP. For being a game I was not excited about, I'm almost giddy.

Jack B Quick area disable variants are my personal fetish, so I approve of this plan.

Also my melee monsters typically use locked gauntlets - it's just a basic thing if you're a brawler, and you only really use one weapon, not to get that knocked out of your hands by stuff.

There was an ogre I ran that had locked gauntlets for his greatsword that could flip a mechanical lever and unlock 30' of chain for Bloodstorm Blade style area-****ing shenanigans. That was an interesting fight for the PCs.

Man, we can't have a Monk thread without someone shamelessly plugging homebrew, can we?

My advice is to get the ability from the Scorpion Kama (MIC) on your swords. Also, since you seem to like stunning fist, check out Pharaoh's Fist from Sandstorm and get Ki Straps from MIC. There are plenty of decent feats for Stunning Fist.

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Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell

Man, we can't have a Monk thread without someone shamelessly plugging homebrew, can we?

My advice is to get the ability from the Scorpion Kama (MIC) on your swords. Also, since you seem to like stunning fist, check out Pharaoh's Fist from Sandstorm and get Ki Straps from MIC. There are plenty of decent feats for Stunning Fist.

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It's better than it used to be. Used to be that you could hardly post a comment with the word monk in it without getting at least a dozen responses that distilled down to "Monks suck. Reroll if you can and suicide if you can't." Suicide in this case meaning either leave the group or play as wrecklessly as possible to deliberately get your monk killed.

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Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell

Man, we can't have a Monk thread without someone shamelessly plugging homebrew, can we?

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Not my fault that jiriku-Monk is one of the most awesome things I've ever read, and I'm not even the type who normally cares about homebrew of any kind. Heck, I wasn't even thinking about power levels when I posted it here, the OP said something about Cool Factor^TM and I immediately thought "Dance With the Elements."

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Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell

Man, we can't have a Monk thread without someone shamelessly plugging homebrew, can we?

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Even when the OP states that 85% of his build must be from core and the first 5 levels must be in a single class (and for him that class must be Monk).

Ah. It's a shame that you don't like Fire Monks, since PHB2 has some fire themed feats (that replace or augment your stunning fist powers).

Please please please please take an Eversmoking Bottle as your magic item.

:smallbiggrin: :smallcool:

Given the same constraints, I'd simply take 20 levels of Monk.

Although my favourite Monks are the ones that can at-will teleport around the battlefield, getting a free attack after each teleport, unfortunately that requires caster levels to pull off (or umpty-tillion levels of the House mumble mumble prestige class from Eberron).

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Originally Posted by Alienist

Ah. It's a shame that you don't like Fire Monks, since PHB2 has some fire themed feats (that replace or augment your stunning fist powers).

Please please please please take an Eversmoking Bottle as your magic item.

:smallbiggrin: :smallcool:

Given the same constraints, I'd simply take 20 levels of Monk.

Although my favourite Monks are the ones that can at-will teleport around the battlefield, getting a free attack after each teleport, unfortunately that requires caster levels to pull off (or umpty-tillion levels of the House mumble mumble prestige class from Eberron).

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There's a tele-pouncer that's not Telflammar Shadowlord? :smallconfused: Do tell.

Yeah, the Synth Summoner Dimensional Assault pathfinder build.

Other than that, you can kind of make a Sun School (feat) Dimension Slide (psionic power) punch teleporter, but it's kind of terrible even with Snap Kick.

As a note, has the OP considered dipping Shiba Protector?

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Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

There's a tele-pouncer that's not Telflammar Shadowlord? :smallconfused: Do tell.

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He probably means Blade of Orien, from Dragonmarked. Full-attack teleportation at ECL 11, IIRC.

Sun School feat does not rely on Snap Kick alone, you can get Planar Touchstone (oxyrynchus) for three attacks per teleport. It's also the fastest way to get attacks out of teleports.

lol, planar touchstone. Used for so many things.

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Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell

My advice is to get the ability from the Scorpion Kama (MIC) on your swords. Also, since you seem to like stunning fist, check out Pharaoh's Fist from Sandstorm and get Ki Straps from MIC. There are plenty of decent feats for Stunning Fist.

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Originally Posted by Uhtred

Secrets of Sarlona says I can use the hook swords to disarm, which, combined with stunning fist/Pharoah's Fist/Weakening Touch/Stunning Master, combined with our party's Dwarven Warpike wielding reach-fighter, should combine to ruin some mooks' days. :) Fail your save and you and everyone around you are stunned and sickened. And your weapons are gone. Also, the angry Dwarf woman with the oversized pike is just waiting for her turn.

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Yep, already looking for ways to exploit Stunning Fist, which I like more and more. Just something about taking a feat a first level that, if I didn't, I'd have to wait until 12th level to get...Although we did rename Pharaoh's Fist as Sifu's Fist, since supposedly I learned it in an Asian-type monastery. One day I may build an Egyptsu-using Monk as a shout-out to "Mummies Alive!", but not this time. Less headache for the DM.

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Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

It's better than it used to be. Used to be that you could hardly post a comment with the word monk in it without getting at least a dozen responses that distilled down to "Monks suck. Reroll if you can and suicide if you can't." Suicide in this case meaning either leave the group or play as wrecklessly as possible to deliberately get your monk killed.

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This was my initial plan, funnily enough. When the DM was forcing down my throat that I had to be a scripture-spouting habit-wearing spiritual advisor Friar Tuck-type Monk, I said something to the tune of "You forced my race on me. You forced my class on me. Now you're forcing a backstory on me, too? A backstory i have repeatedly told you i hate? Let me write my own backstory or you can count me out. I won't have fun if the character isn't actually mine in some way."

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Originally Posted by Sith_Happens

Not my fault that jiriku-Monk is one of the most awesome things I've ever read, and I'm not even the type who normally cares about homebrew of any kind. Heck, I wasn't even thinking about power levels when I posted it here, the OP said something about Cool Factor^TM and I immediately thought "Dance With the Elements."

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It IS pretty cool, and I linked it to him when we were talking last night. He said he doesn't want to deal with homebrew his first time out, maybe as a more experienced DM he'd allow it. If he does, I want to be a Magitech Templar. :)

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Originally Posted by only1doug

Even when the OP states that 85% of his build must be from core and the first 5 levels must be in a single class (and for him that class must be Monk).

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Yep. I would give my Monk's tricked out staff if I was able to take a Lion-Totem Barbarian dip. I can't imagine a Melee build without it, honestly.

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Originally Posted by Alienist

Given the same constraints, I'd simply take 20 levels of Monk.

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I might, but the Shintao Monk and Tattooed Monk look very, very fun. Even if it means I miss out on Quivering Palm, which I have explicit permission to refer to as the "Five-Finger Exploding Heart Technique" or the "Xena Pinch." :smallbiggrin:

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Originally Posted by Rejakor

Yeah, the Synth Summoner Dimensional Assault pathfinder build.

Other than that, you can kind of make a Sun School (feat) Dimension Slide (psionic power) punch teleporter, but it's kind of terrible even with Snap Kick.

As a note, has the OP considered dipping Shiba Protector?

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No Pathfinder, no Psionics. Our new DM wants to have to flip between as few books as possible to keep track of our shenanigans. Sun School is definitely on my list of things to do, I liked the cut of its jib, but I don't think I qualify for it at 5th lvl. Also, yeah, saw Shiba Protector (Oh, Power Rangers Samurai...), but the feat requirements are too steep for me to be legitimately interested. :/

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Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

It's better than it used to be. Used to be that you could hardly post a comment with the word monk in it without getting at least a dozen responses that distilled down to "Monks suck. Reroll if you can and suicide if you can't." Suicide in this case meaning either leave the group or play as wrecklessly as possible to deliberately get your monk killed.

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You think that's bad? How about the days when you couldn't even breathe the word "monk" without someone saying "PARTIALLY CHARGED WANDS."

Re: The OP, though, glad you finally laid the smackdown on your DM and got to have SOME sort of say about your character. It sucks that your DM is autobanning so much just because he's not that experienced, but hey, I mean, everyone's gotta start somewhere. I've only been DMing for three years, and there's still stuff I'm wary about, but I've learned to deal with it. Hopefully, after you guys play this campaign, he'll know a lot more and end up letting you design more than just your character's backstory. :smallwink:

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Originally Posted by Deth Muncher

Re: The OP, though, glad you finally laid the smackdown on your DM and got to have SOME sort of say about your character. It sucks that your DM is autobanning so much just because he's not that experienced, but hey, I mean, everyone's gotta start somewhere. I've only been DMing for three years, and there's still stuff I'm wary about, but I've learned to deal with it. Hopefully, after you guys play this campaign, he'll know a lot more and end up letting you design more than just your character's backstory. :smallwink:

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He's one of my best friends and a father of two tiny children, a man I respect infinitely in all that he does. But because he's a dad, he doesn't have the time and energy I have to devote to learning how to optimize, scouring setting-specific sourcebooks and obscure sourcebooks, and I can't expect him to be able to instantly know and understand every little thing I'm capable of digging up. The neutering was difficult to take at first, but every optimizer loves a challenge. And while I doubt very seriously that next campaign he'll let me build a half-dragon gestalt Warblade/Artificer with the Saint template, wielding a colossal-sized platinum Minotaur Greathammer, being able to pick more than my backstory will certainly be both refreshing and entertaining. :smallbiggrin:

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Originally Posted by Deth Muncher

You think that's bad? How about the days when you couldn't even breathe the word "monk" without someone saying "PARTIALLY CHARGED WANDS."

Re: The OP, though, glad you finally laid the smackdown on your DM and got to have SOME sort of say about your character. It sucks that your DM is autobanning so much just because he's not that experienced, but hey, I mean, everyone's gotta start somewhere. I've only been DMing for three years, and there's still stuff I'm wary about, but I've learned to deal with it. Hopefully, after you guys play this campaign, he'll know a lot more and end up letting you design more than just your character's backstory. :smallwink:

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The partially charged wand fiasco was at least a step in the right direction. People were trying to help make it work instead of just saying don't do it at all.

The fact that partially charged wands and cc umd ranks works on everybody is the reason it was failure as a monk tactic. Spending all your resources to poorly mimic an artificer or wizard isn't really a way to save any class from failure.

Mind you, I think the rabid monk hate got a bit out of hand to begin with. At a certain level of optimization the monk works just fine. The fact that that level is significantly below the preferred level of the majority of the people that discuss D&D in forums like this doesn't make it genuinely worthless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Uhtred

He's one of my best friends and a father of two tiny children, a man I respect infinitely in all that he does. But because he's a dad, he doesn't have the time and energy I have to devote to learning how to optimize, scouring setting-specific sourcebooks and obscure sourcebooks, and I can't expect him to be able to instantly know and understand every little thing I'm capable of digging up. The neutering was difficult to take at first, but every optimizer loves a challenge. And while I doubt very seriously that next campaign he'll let me build a half-dragon gestalt Warblade/Artificer with the Saint template, wielding a colossal-sized platinum Minotaur Greathammer, being able to pick more than my backstory will certainly be both refreshing and entertaining. :smallbiggrin:

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Oh come now, he certainly has time to learn the rules! Two children is no excuse! They sleep, right? For at least five hours out of the day? Why, in that time you could at least mostly absorb a splatbook! It's not like he needs to sleep or go work or anything! :smallwink:

But really though, it's good to know there's no bad blood because of this.