League of Legends LXV: What threads are mine to make, little Lamb? All, dear Wolf.

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Originally Posted by Anarion

Interestingly, that's actually a very hard dodge for Caitlyn. She's next to and slightly in front of the dead tower. She's too far to the right of the screen to dodge like Diana did (if she had done that the rest of the blue team would have caught and killed her anyway). She can't go up or down because, as demonstrated, Sion fills the entire space to the left of the tower and if she uses her movement abilities to dodge straight, she gets hit anyway. The actual dodge there was to flash further right behind the tower because it functions as terrain (so if sion hits it he stops and if he doesn't he runs past her), then walk backwards. If it looks like she's going to get caught by Sion behind her, she can walk into her blue side jungle and then net over the wall near wolves before she's caught. But that's a lot to think about in that moment.

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Nah. Net left, flash into wolf pit if necessary, done. Net right, flash over tower, done. (Or Morgana could have shielded her immediately, but let's not get crazy here.)

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Originally Posted by Lethologica

Nah. Net left, flash into wolf pit if necessary, done. Net right, flash over tower, done. (Or Morgana could have shielded her immediately, but let's not get crazy here.)

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Left flash is hard at that spot and if you flash and net right, the rest of blue team might catch you.

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Originally Posted by Anarion

Left flash is hard at that spot and if you flash and net right, the rest of blue team might catch you.

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I don't know exactly where you're starting Cait's decision tree, but where I'm starting it is where she nets, which is right in the middle of mid lane between the two torches. From there, she can easily net out of Sion's path in the direction of red buff, walk over to the thin part of the wall to wolf-pit, and flash over if necessary (it probably won't be necessary). Rewatching it, though, you're right that there's no play flashing over tower--but I should note that you're the person who originally gave that solution. :smallwink: Cait could also have flashed further towards the left edge of mid lane, which would have dodged Sion ult but left him in a good position to catch her anyway. Going around the right side of the tower has the same basic problem.

So I stand by the first solution I offered.

Nah, the REAL solution is to flash forward, through Sion, and then use your net to dodge his Q when he turns around. :smalltongue:

Showy and rude are the same as good tactics, right?

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Originally Posted by Lethologica

I don't know exactly where you're starting Cait's decision tree, but where I'm starting it is where she nets, which is right in the middle of mid lane between the two torches. From there, she can easily net out of Sion's path in the direction of red buff, walk over to the thin part of the wall to wolf-pit, and flash over if necessary (it probably won't be necessary). Rewatching it, though, you're right that there's no play flashing over tower--but I should note that you're the person who originally gave that solution. :smallwink: Cait could also have flashed further towards the left edge of mid lane, which would have dodged Sion ult but left him in a good position to catch her anyway. Going around the right side of the tower has the same basic problem.

So I stand by the first solution I offered.

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Watched it one more time with some freeze framing. So, I think if she goes left as you suggest when she hears the shout for Sion ult, she'd be safe. If she waits until she does in the video around the mid torches, going left might be a problem because of Blitzcrank's position (he leans right in the video, but could easily have veered left instead and pulled if he saw Cait go that way, and he has righteous glory running to close ground). If she walks backwards as soon as she hears the shout and flashes right to the tower instead of straight back, I think she can escape that way. It's, at any rate, not an easy spot and that's a very good Sion ult.

Though yes, Morg could have just put a black shield on her at the end there, but alas.

Ya'll are taking what I uploaded as a silly play way too seriously.

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Originally Posted by McDouggal

Ya'll are taking what I uploaded as a silly play way too seriously.

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My only issue with it is the distinct lack of Sion chest-pounding BM at the end. Because its just the best.

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Originally Posted by Farix

My only issue with it is the distinct lack of Sion chest-pounding BM at the end. Because its just the best.

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I was a bit more worried about chasing down the nexus than going for BM.

So, I've been on a bit of a Galio kick recently.

Spoiler

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http://i.imgur.com/qskHaRA.png

Fancy update page for the new season changes which reveals a crafting system and an upcoming Alpha for a new client. So very very pretty.

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Originally Posted by Farix

Fancy update page for the new season changes which reveals a crafting system and an upcoming Alpha for a new client. So very very pretty.

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Or at the very least, it would be pretty, if your toaster/Etch-a-Sketch/what have you could load all the assets.

I suspect that the new one will be better optimized for lower-end machines, not less.

Rioter comment.

I love what they're doing with champ select!

Y'know, with all this talk about CLG being idiots to have gotten rid of Doublelift, something occurs to me:

In all these years, through all the roster changes, dramatic interpersonal explosions, epic late-season collapses, and "Golden Ages" that turned to bronze-at-best, the only real constant has been Doublelift playing AD Carry. Pretty much everything else - roster, player positions, management, coaches, everything - has changed around him in some way.

As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. CLG has spent four years changing anything and everything except Doublelift over and over and over, and they've gotten more or less the same result every time: do good, collapse, roster-splode in a torrent of "I hate playing with Doublelift" tweets, rinse, repeat. Maybe they figured they'd try changing Doublelift for once and see what happens.

*shrug* Just a thought. :smallredface:


...although knowing my track record, ten'll get ya twenty that I'm totally wrong and just making myself look like an idiot yet again.

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Originally Posted by Farix

Fancy update page for the new season changes which reveals a crafting system and an upcoming Alpha for a new client. So very very pretty.

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Am I the only one who, when they first saw the "Clubs" bit, thought for just a split-second that that was a Dalek instead of Teemo?

Now I feel bad, equating Daleks with something as horrible and unrepentantly evil as Teemo :smallfrown:

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Originally Posted by Farix

Fancy update page for the new season changes which reveals a crafting system and an upcoming Alpha for a new client. So very very pretty.

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Well there's a lot of cool information there.

A few thoughts.

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I'm gonna be terrified of Caits and Kog'Maws that get Rapid Firecannon.

New Graves passive is very interesting, and it will either be awesome, or weird to control, since you can't harass the enemy marksman if they're behind a minion. Also, how would it interact with Runaan's Hurricane? Is he going to be shooting 9 shots every auto-attack? Because that would be hilarious. Re-reading it, it will be only 5, which would still be funny, but imagining the 9 shot spray from each of Graves' attacks is still great.

Corki is going to pretty much need teleport, or rushing an early homeguards or his passive boost won't do anything unless you're losing.

Miss Fortune's passive seems like it will just annoy me if I play her, I get kind of single-minded. Luckily she's never been high on my list of champions I play anyway. I prefer Graves and Cait for my adc-ing.

Some of the masteries seem like they should thematically be in different groups, but that's just my weird opinion. They look interesting, in any case.

Corrupting Potion looks nice.

Cull is weird, I'm curious if the passive means it overcharges if you kill too many minions too fast, or if after X number of minions you just sell it and get a Doran's Blade instead (or more probably some other higher tier item you need).

Lord Dominik's Regards and Mortal Reminder will go from awesome to freaking amazing depending on if their passives work only for auto-attaks (as I suspect will be the case) or for any AD spells.

I like the Mastery Chests and keys thing. Mostly because I'm too cheap to ever shell money out for a silly cosmetic change like a skin, but also really want a single skins. Gives me the delusion that I'll actually get lucky and get it.

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Originally Posted by Artanis

Y'know, with all this talk about CLG being idiots to have gotten rid of Doublelift, something occurs to me:

In all these years, through all the roster changes, dramatic interpersonal explosions, epic late-season collapses, and "Golden Ages" that turned to bronze-at-best, the only real constant has been Doublelift playing AD Carry. Pretty much everything else - roster, player positions, management, coaches, everything - has changed around him in some way.

As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. CLG has spent four years changing anything and everything except Doublelift over and over and over, and they've gotten more or less the same result every time: do good, collapse, roster-splode in a torrent of "I hate playing with Doublelift" tweets, rinse, repeat. Maybe they figured they'd try changing Doublelift for once and see what happens.

*shrug* Just a thought. :smallredface:


...although knowing my track record, ten'll get ya twenty that I'm totally wrong and just making myself look like an idiot yet again.

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The one key thing that most CLG fans are mentioning is that this year the result was different. CLG had their patented tailspin in the middle of the season, but managed to right the ship and finished strong. Then they went on a tear through the playoffs, again, not choking, and won the NA LCS championship in convincing fashion. They no showed at Worlds, but at least they made Worlds this year.

Then in the offseason, CLG fired the coach, and released both Pobelter and Doublelift, after the strongest year CLG has ever had in the LCS era. It could absolutely be the right move, I've also read the negative things about Doublelift, but the proof is going to be if CLG can build something.

If it goes wrong... oh boy.

P.S. I think it's the right move for CLG too. At this point, there's too much baggage with Doublelift and both parties could use a fresh start. It's probably great for Doublelift to be put on a team where he isn't the alpha dog, but again, we'll see if TSM's bet pays off. In the short term, it has to be good for their brand.

On the other side of the swap, TSM now has two mechanical virtuosos in key roles who hate shotcalling. One wonders who they're going to recruit to actually run plays.

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Originally Posted by Lethologica

On the other side of the swap, TSM now has two mechanical virtuosos in key roles who hate shotcalling. One wonders who they're going to recruit to actually run plays.

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Bjerg actually does make calls, as I understand it, but probably for early game they'll recruit a jungler or support who makes calls, as those two roles have the most map awareness built in.

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Originally Posted by Anarion

Bjerg actually does make calls, as I understand it, but probably for early game they'll recruit a jungler or support who makes calls, as those two roles have the most map awareness built in.

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Bjerg made calls because he was usually the strongest and the rest of the team was slow to talk. It's not exactly a strategic decision, and Bjergsen didn't exactly embrace the role.

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Originally Posted by Lethologica

On the other side of the swap, TSM now has two mechanical virtuosos in key roles who hate shotcalling. One wonders who they're going to recruit to actually run plays.

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Two people who tend to be cited as up and coming shotcallers are BunnyFufu and Rush, assuming the vaunted TSM bankroll and prestige can pry them from their current teams.

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Originally Posted by Joran

Two people who tend to be cited as up and coming shotcallers are BunnyFufu and Rush, assuming the vaunted TSM bankroll and prestige can pry them from their current teams.

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Didn't Rush shotcall in Korean?

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Originally Posted by Anarion

Didn't Rush shotcall in Korean?

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No, he shotcalled in English; Team Impulse was a mishmash of Chinese, American, and Korean players, so they had to find a common language. I wouldn't be surprised if he talked to Impact in Korean sometimes though.

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Originally Posted by Joran

No, he shotcalled in English; Team Impulse was a mishmash of Chinese, American, and Korean players, so they had to find a common language. I wouldn't be surprised if he talked to Impact in Korean sometimes though.

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The fact that Rush was able to communicate better in Korean was often listed as a reason Rush seemed to spend so much time working around Impact rather than the bottom half of the map. It was easier and faster to set up plays.

It reminds me of Spring split Fnatic, where the jungler and the top lane would speak Korean to each other, the bottom lane would talk in French to each other and Febiven was often left on a communication island in the early game.

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Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi

I love what they're doing with champ select!

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I'm not.

They're locking the meta in stone, and opening up a huge can of worms for people picking outside their lock in roles.

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Originally Posted by Artanis

Am I the only one who, when they first saw the "Clubs" bit, thought for just a split-second that that was a Dalek instead of Teemo?

Now I feel bad, equating Daleks with something as horrible and unrepentantly evil as Teemo :smallfrown:

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Now I want a teemo dalek skin

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Originally Posted by Olinser

I'm not.

They're locking the meta in stone, and opening up a huge can of worms for people picking outside their lock in roles.

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What do you mean?

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Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi

Now I want a teemo dalek skin



What do you mean?

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Right now unless you are playing Team Builder, you can talk about preferences and you can alter preferences based on what the enemy has picked. You can do off-meta things. This new system locks the meta into hardened steel. Nobody will deviate from it, ever.

Then with the new draft, you are forced pre-game to select 2 roles and have those roles displayed to everybody else before anything happens. I guarantee people are immediately going to start reporting people if they dare to pick outside those roles.

Myself, when I play ranked, I generally make it known, 'pref mid, can fill jungle/top'. Now I HAVE to arbitrarily choose one of the two as my off role, and I don't want to put in fill because I don't like playing ADC in ranked. But my freedom to say 'meh, they picked or banned my top champs and I'm first pick, I feel like playing jungle', is severely curtailed if I had pre-game picked mid/top.

The gap between 2 picks and 'fill' covers WAY too much ground. What if I want to fill anywhere but ADC, so I put mid/fill as my preferences, and I get into the lobby and NOBODY else has fill or ADC? No discussion, no options, I'm stuck picking ADC.

Team builder was a great idea because it is its own separate que. This is a TERRIBLE idea because it now affects EVERY que.

A much better system would be one where you ranked or graded each of your roles - i.e. 1 mid 2 top 3 jungle 4 support 5 adc, or Mid - A, Top - B, Jungle - B-, Support - B-, ADC - C-. That gives a very clear progression of what roles you want to play/consider yourself good at.

Also, with 3 different people having bans, it makes it MUCH more likely you are going to get a troll ban or a ban of a champion rarely played just because that particular person doesn't like them.

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Originally Posted by Olinser

I'm not.

They're locking the meta in stone, and opening up a huge can of worms for people picking outside their lock in roles.

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What, exactly, are they doing to do this? Cause from what I've read, no they aren't.

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Originally Posted by Godskook

What, exactly, are they doing to do this? Cause from what I've read, no they aren't.

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Have you not looked at the new system? It's essentially Team Builder but it now affects everything. You are required to pick 2 roles (with 'fill' being a role) prior to queing up. No altering picks or where you want to go based on picks/bans. You now select blind.

So anything outside those 5 roles is now taboo.

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Originally Posted by Dienekes

Cull is weird, I'm curious if the passive means it overcharges if you kill too many minions too fast, or if after X number of minions you just sell it and get a Doran's Blade instead (or more probably some other higher tier item you need).

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Cull

450 gold
+5 Attack Damage
+3 Life on Hit
UNIQUE Passive: Killing a minion grants 1 additional gold. Killing 100 minions grants an additional 300 bonus gold immediately and disables this passive.

So kinda like a Dorans in that you grab it early then sell it come mid game when you need a slot/have all the bonus gold.


Demo video of the new Champ Select lobby on the PBE for those of us without accounts.

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Originally Posted by Olinser

Right now unless you are playing Team Builder, you can talk about preferences and you can alter preferences based on what the enemy has picked. You can do off-meta things. This new system locks the meta into hardened steel. Nobody will deviate from it, ever.

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1.Teambuilder is single-handedly the best queue for talking about off-meta things atm(Its the only one where you can talk -before- facing long queue dodge penalties, for starters).

2.Why does this new system lock anything into hardened steel? You never qualify this statement with a mechanic for how it achieves this.

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Originally Posted by Olinser

I guarantee people are immediately going to start reporting people if they dare to pick outside those roles.

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1.We report people atm for picking outside their pick order, which is statistically less optimal role assignments for the team.

2.They'll only be reported for doing so against the wishes of the team. You -can- still negotiate, y'know, and -nobody- will care if an agreement is reached.

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Originally Posted by Olinser

Myself, when I play ranked, I generally make it known, 'pref mid, can fill jungle/top'. Now I HAVE to arbitrarily choose one of the two as my off role, and I don't want to put in fill because I don't like playing ADC in ranked. But my freedom to say 'meh, they picked or banned my top champs and I'm first pick, I feel like playing jungle', is severely curtailed if I had pre-game picked mid/top.

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This seems like the mildest of nuisances, especially since a distributed draft will reduce the likelihood of bans targeted solely at one role, since players tend to act in self-interest, making counter-bans more likely than now.

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Originally Posted by Olinser

The gap between 2 picks and 'fill' covers WAY too much ground. What if I want to fill anywhere but ADC, so I put mid/fill as my preferences, and I get into the lobby and NOBODY else has fill or ADC? No discussion, no options, I'm stuck picking ADC.

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With greater control over which roles you are going to play also comes greater ability to practice a deeper pool within that role. If you 100% know you won't be forced to support, ADC or top, you can widen your jungle pool deep enough to face being banned out much easier than on live.

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Originally Posted by Olinser

Team builder was a great idea because it is its own separate que. This is a TERRIBLE idea because it now affects EVERY que.

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That doesn't actually follow.

(Also, its queue, not que :P)

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Originally Posted by Olinser

A much better system would be one where you ranked or graded each of your roles - i.e. 1 mid 2 top 3 jungle 4 support 5 adc, or Mid - A, Top - B, Jungle - B-, Support - B-, ADC - C-. That gives a very clear progression of what roles you want to play/consider yourself good at.

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Except that's a worse system. It creates the possibility of me, Kook, being forced to play support as someone who's bad at support, which is specifically what they're trying to eliminate with this change.

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Originally Posted by Olinser

Also, with 3 different people having bans, it makes it MUCH more likely you are going to get a troll ban or a ban of a champion rarely played just because that particular person doesn't like them.

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Weighed against the current system where you're MUCH more likely to get -3- bans of that sort in the same game, as well as a player who bans-out his main's counters to the detriment of his team. The new way seems much preferable to me.

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Originally Posted by Olinser

Have you not looked at the new system? It's essentially Team Builder but it now affects everything. You are required to pick 2 roles (with 'fill' being a role) prior to queing up. No altering picks or where you want to go based on picks/bans. You now select blind.

So anything outside those 5 roles is now taboo.

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Which other possibilities -are- there except 'top', 'mid', 'bot' or 'jungle'? Did you really want to play 'fountain' Alistar? Or 'ward' Teemo? I know this is a bit hyperbolic, but I can't honestly think of a less hyperbolic example to use.

If you've got three preferred lanes, just alternate between them. That way instead of starting every game with no idea what you'll play, and then playing them as fate dictates, you can actually pick.

If you miss the uncertainty, roll a die beforehand to determine which you play today :smalltongue: