Lord of the Undead PrC

Alright, I'm sure people have already seen/noticed my attempt at a Death Knight class recently and that's currently still being reworked some atm, but I am in a very good mood for undead due to the campaign I'm working on that uses a lot of it thanks to the Cult of Nerull being...themselves really xD

That aside, I decided to create something kind of like what the Pale Master and True Necromancer are without being as bad as either though: A master of creating powerful undead minions, This PrC is meant to enable an army of smaller undead but more so focus on the ability to create an elite group of body guard like warriors of undead. After all, whats better than a perfectly loyal minion immune to mind control and well...most everything else the living are weak to?

Anyways, not sure if I'm overdoing this or not still. From a standpoint of a campaign that is undead heavy, yes it's obviously very powerful, but overall I'm not so sure it's all that overwhelming compared to what other classes and builds can do without being minion dependent, however I am rather partial to 'pet' classes so I was somewhat inclined to give them a bit more as a little nudge to help compete with the others.

Lord of the Undead

Hit Die: d4

Requirements
To qualify to become a Lord of the Undead, character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge (Religion) OR (Arcana) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Feats: Corpsecrafter
Spells: Must be able to cast Animate Dead
Special: The Undead Mastery class feature may be used in place of the Corpsecrafter feat to qualify (effects are identical in regards to animated undead bonuses)

Class Skills
The Lord of the Undead's class skills are Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Gather Information, Heal, Knowledge (Any), Profession, Spellcraft.
Skill Points: 2 + Intelligence Modifier

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Lords of the Undead gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spells per Day: For every even numbered level the Lord of the Undead gains, they gain new spells per day as if they had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class they belonged to before they added the prestige class. They does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that they add half the level of Lord of the Undead to the level of whatever other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.
If a character had more than one spellcasting class before they became a Lord of the Undead, he must decide to which class they add each even level of Lord of the Undead for the purpose of determining spells per day.
The Lord of the Undead's caster level in regards to all spells dealing specifically with the undead however is treated as being their character level instead.
Rebuke Undead: The Lord of the Undead gains the ability to Rebuke and Command Undead as an evil Cleric would of his character level, if he had this ability before, it will simply continue to improve as levels are gained.
Bonus Feat: At first level, a Lord of the Undead gains a single feat that has the Corpsecrafter feat as a prerequisite for free.
Extra Domain: At first level, a Lord of the Undead gains all of the benefits of one of the following domains for free: Death, Deathbound, or Undeath. They will gain the related Domain Powers as well as the right to prepare them in domain slots, or add them to their spells known list as appropriate for their previous class.
Spell Access: At second level, a Lord of the Undead that was an arcane spellcaster automatically learns the following spells when they become available to them (using the lowest spell level that any base class caster learns them): Awaken Undead, Desecrate, Hallow, and all Inflict spells and Harm (as well as any spells specifically stated to apply to undead). If the Lord of the Undead was a Divine spellcaster (or an arcane caster that already knew or had access to these spells) will gain a +2 bonus to their caster level when using any of the aforementioned spells instead if they were already on their available spell list, otherwise they simply gain access to these spells.
Unholy Vigor: At second level, all undead created by the Lord of the Undead are granted an enhancement bonus to all attack and damage rolls equal to half their class level (rounded up) which will also make their attacks count as being evil aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Improved Corpsecrafter: At third level, the Lord of the Undead's enhancement bonuses to hit points per hit die for all undead they create is increased by an additional +1. This ability increases again at levels 6 and 9, each time raising the total boost by an equal amount, capping out at +5 hit points per hit die at level 9.
Share Spells: At third level, the Lord of the Undead gains a special link to all of the undead they have created, allowing them to channel their magic power through them. From now on, the LotU may designate any of their undead as the deliverer for touch spells they cast or even as the starting point for any spells they cast instead of themselves (such as making a zombie cast burning hands so they don't need to get in close range themselves). Additionally they may have any spells that effect himself or designate 'you' as the target may be applied to enhance up to one of his undead within 10ft per class level.
Tough Corpse: At fourth level, the Lord of the Undead grants all undead they create an additional +1 natural armor upon creation per two class levels. If the created undead is incorporeal however, this bonus is applied to their deflection bonus to AC instead.
Share Senses: At fourth level, the Lord of the Undead gains a more unique connection to any of their undead that allows them to experience any of the five senses through the perception of any undead they have created. This also gives them direct awareness of the location of every undead they have created as a result. They may also choose to use any of their undead as the source of their voice, speaking through them as well, which can potentially allow them to give mindless undead orders at a distance. Lastly, they may directly communicate mentally with any intelligent undead they have created similar to a form of direct telepathy.
Necropower: At fifth level, the Lord of the Undead can now apply a special enhancement bonus to the Charisma stat of any undead they have created equal to their class level.
Summoning Glyph: At fifth level, the Lord of the Undead can place a special 'mark' on one undead they have created per two class levels. This special mark allows them to transport that particular undead to anywhere within 10 ft/class level as a Standard Action regardless of their previous location. This summoning-like ability may be performed once per day per class level and lasts as long as desired or until dismissed, which sends the undead back to where they were prior to being called. A single use may be used to summon as few or as many undead as have been marked at once, as long as they are all brought into place within range. A 'mark' can be removed or placed upon a new minion as a Free Action. It should also be noted that unlike regular summoning magic, this is merely a focused form of teleportation being used upon the marked undead.
Undead Mastery: At sixth level, the Lord of the Undead no longer controls a limit of only 4x Caster Level in undead. They now gain the ability to control a maximum amount of undead equal to (4+spellcasting ability modifier) xCaster Level (for undead related spells) instead. This will allow Dread Necromancer and Lord of the Undead levels to stack for the purpose of determining their control limit.
Intelligent Undead: At seventh level, any mindless undead created by the Lord of the Undead receive benefits equivalent to the Awaken Undead spell, except it grants an Intelligence score of (1d6+4) plus one-half the Lord of the Undead's class level, and isn't limited by the Intelligence score that the undead creature had in life.
Undead Control: At eight level, the Lord of the Undead is permitted to automatically take control of any undead they create, regardless of the spell used or the effects that would state otherwise. This does of course follow the regular restrictions of the HD they can animate in a single casting and the maximum amount of HD worth in undead they may control at once.
Undead Legion: At eighth level, the Lord of the Undead may now treat any and all undead they control with less than 4 HD as nonexistent for determining if they have reached their limit or not.
Expanded Creation List: At ninth level, the Lord of the Undead gains an expanded list of undead that can be created using the spell Create Undead. From now on, they may now use the spell to animate any corpse of choice by applying one of the following templates onto it:
Bone Creature (technically already allowed but being specifically mentioned)
Corpse Creature (technically already allowed but being specifically mentioned)
Gravetouched Ghoul
Necromental
Revived Fossil
Post template ECL of the animated corpse cannot exceed your caster level -2 (uses undead caster level)
While using Create Greater Undead, they may apply the following templates instead:
Death Knight
Mummified Creature
Umbral Creature
Vampire
Post template ECL of the animated corpse cannot exceed your caster level -2 (uses undead Caster level)
This ability also allows them to create any existing type of undead creature (such as Slaymates, Deathlocks, or the like) using the Create Undead Spell with an ELC of as high as 12 (must be 2 less than caster level), but without a hard cap when using Greater Create Undead so long as the ECL is 2 less than their undead caster level.
Perfectly Animated Corpse: At ninth level, the Lord of the Undead has perfected their animation of the dead and from now on all undead they create will automatically have the maximum hit points for their hit dice. They will also gain a bonus to all saving throws equal to the Death Lord's primary spellcasting ability modifier.
Dread Guard: At tenth level, the Lord of the Undead is permitted to bond a single undead they have created as a special dread guard using any animation method available. This designated guard can be replaced with a 24 hour ritual to bond a new undead in place of the current one (or replaced a destroyed one). This Dread Guard gains all benefits of this class' boosts to animated undead as well as the following changes:
-gains HD as the master levels up, having up to their level -2 (these can be actual class levels as chosen by the master, much like a regular cohort)
-may roll for base stats or use elite array (if replaced their stats will become standard again for their race)
-does not count against controlled undead limit
-is immune to turning
-gains the benefits of the Summoning Glyph without counting against the limit and can be summoned without limit
-can apply the bonus of Unholy Vigor to manufactured weapons they wield, but it will supersede the enhancement bonus to attack/damage the weapon applies if any

Level	BAB	Fort	Red	Will	Abilities	Spells per Day
1st	+0	+0	+0	+2	Rebuke Undead, Bonus Feat, Extra Domain	---
2nd	+1	+0	+0	+3	Spell Access, unholy Vigor	+1 level of existing spellcasting class
3rd	+1	+1	+1	+3	Improved Corpsecrafter (+3 hp/HD), Share Spells	---
4th	+2	+1	+1	+4	Tough Corpse, Share Senses	+1 level of existing spellcasting class
5th	+2	+1	+1	+4	Necropower, Summoning Glyph	---
6th	+3	+2	+2	+5	Improved Corpsecrafter (+4 hp/HD), Undead Mastery	+1 level of existing spellcasting class
7th	+3	+2	+2	+5	Intelligent Undead	---
8th	+4	+2	+2	+6	Undead Control, Undead Legion	+1 level of existing spellcasting class
9th	+4	+3	+3	+6	Improved Corpsecrafter (+5 hp/HD), Perfect Animated Corpse	---
10th	+5	+3	+3	+7	Dread Guard	+1 level of existing spellcasting class

I do want to add that while a lot of these boosts may seem rather powerful, this is still a fairly focused class and it can only be applied to undead the caster creates. Generally undead can be destroyed quite easily overall thanks to Heal Spells, effects like disintegrate and a variety of other effects that make them easier to destroy compared to other creatures and it has been stated before that necromancy for the sake of creating undead was generally lower on the tiers than most other uses of magic, including save-or-die necromancy. Not to mention there's a lot more work and roleplay involved in constantly searching for anew well preserved corpse and creating an army or elite guard of undead which can even create a variety of adventure hooks in an of itself for the work required to do this, so I am also somewhat inclined to give them a little more for this reason as well given that a simple spellcaster with zero flavor base for their powers can cast one spell and kill 80% of anything they fight.

Also, I'm still not 100% on how much was thrown into the class but I did consider a few other abilities that would add some more flavor and variety to the animation process and choices, mostly granting the Lord of the Undead the ability to use undead templates during animation other than Skepeton or Zombie, mostly like those from the Libris Mortis, allowing them to create a Mummified creature or a Ghost, or Gravetouched Ghoul, or even just adding a variety of the new undead from other rule books to the lists for the Create Undead, and Create Greater Undead spells as well, allowing the character to actually add a greater variety to their forces. Lastly I was thinking of either adding a class feature that removed the HD limits for the skeleton and Zombie templates for Animate Undead, or simply making a 'Greater' version of the spell to do so. Also reduced material component costs are always a nice possibility.

Come on no other Necromancy enthusiasts around want to talk about an undead creation specialist PrC with me?

As you have suspected, I think that this is too much.

While the ability bonuses from corpsecrafter and undead mastery do not stack, the hit points from both sources do stack. As both of those sources of hit points are being increased, greater desecration is being introduced, and undead are being created with maximum hp, the example 19-hd skeleton in the Monster Manual ends up with over 500 HP! Even with the existence of heal and disintegrate (high level spells that most enemies would rather not use against minions), the fact that you are giving all undead +10 AC, +10 attack and damage, +15 hp/HD... it is frankly too much.

Most minion classes either function by having a single minion (like the pathfinder summoner or the animal companion of a druid) that gets really good or by creating minor minions for the sake of utility tricks (SLAs of summoned creatures) or creating roadblocks (most undead classes). You have gone out of your way to create a class that goes around with about a dozen skeletons that are each trying to replace the party fighter. Many people think that the animal companion of a druid is on the moderately high side of power and you are essentially giving this class a better version of that x12 plus an unlimited number of "roadblock" minions for the hell of it. Adding in the ability to automatcially control all undead you animate, this looks to me like the definition of a class that is trying to have its cake and eat it, too.

Again, too much.

Spells per Day: this class should lose at least one caster level at 1st, and possibly another at 10th. It's far better than 10 levels in wizard from a class feature perspective, so for balance's sake it should lose some casting.

Rebuke Undead: key it off of levels in spellcasting classes rather than off caster level. Otherwise caster level loops could be abused to auto-command any and every undead encountered.

Spell Access: Greater Desecrate should not exist. Plain and simple.

Improved Corpsecrafter/Tough Corpse/Unholy Vigor: This totals to +10 attack/damage/AC. Either remove the additional str/dex increases from improved corpsecrafter (and move Unholy Vigor to 2nd level) or remove tough corpse and unholy vigor. What keeps minionmancy balanced is that the minions, though disposable, aren't very tough. This breaks that.

Necropower: as written this gives +Cha to HP. Might want to specify that it doesn't do that, because it really shouldn't. A total of +15 HP/HD is absurd and should not be possible under any circumstances. As has been said, a 500-hp 19-HD minion is far too much. Also, any undead with saving throw-based abilities keys them off of charisma anyways. This ability should be removed entirely.

Undead Legion: Abusable through low-HD threatening undead (e.g. wights) and ability-boosting stuff. I don't know of any way to fix it (especially when even low-HD undead are threats due to the above +10 attack/damage/AC), so it should probably be removed.

Undead Control: Might want to specify that undead other than skeletons or zombies are commanded as if via rebuke undead; the 4*CL HD is only for undead created through animated dead. Also, this should be lower-level, since it's not too powerful.

Perfectly Animated Corpse: Should be removed, because of all of the ways you boost their HP otherwise. Besides, by this point in the game they're probably getting access to Plague of Undead soon anyways, which is another means of making max-HP undead, so this capstone is kind of irrelevant. Not sure what else should go here.

Spells per day: I myself considered at least losing a level for the first class level but was not completely sure or not but I have no problem doing so at least once or twice.

Rebuke Undead: OK I suppose you have a point with this one here, didn't really think you could loop caster level up though.

Spell Access: I admit the HP boost was iffy but the idea was more so just a stronger area of enhancement for undead, though I am not overly attached to the spell itself.

Improved Corpsecrafter/Tough Corpse/Unholy Vigor: I don't mind dropping the additional Str/Dex gained and without Greater Desecrate, the extra 3 HP/HD isn't as big of a deal really and I'd be fine with dropping that to let Unholy Vigor and Tough Corpse remain. Minions do tend to be obnoxiously squishy or easy to hit overall (unless you get lucky with some dragon skeletons or something with really high natural armor to start with)

Necropower: Was not intended for HP at all so I should have added a note on that yes. It was more so meant to help with the rather horrid saving throws (especially fortitude) that undead suffer from overall and help keep any save DCS a little useful again like poisons and the like, but it was also useful for any imcorporeal undead created as well since they cant get the Strength boost from the improved Corpsecrafter or regular version at all.

Undead Legion: I personally see this more as a Roleplay point ability for a few reasons. It's what validates a single high level spellcaster having a literal army of loyal mindless undead minions. However I don't see it as letting a player have access to a million buffed up little guys because nine times out of ten the traveling Necromancer can't bring along *all* of his pets on any adventure or trip he takes with or without a regular party. They're likely only going to bring along 2-4 stronger ones for the most part, possibly them actually being their party with a tough zombie 'fighter' and a controlled spellcsting vampire or the like. But also I have found a feat in the Notebook of Feats that has this exact effect (though specifically stating its based on Charisma) so I don't see it as being particularly gamebreaking really.

Undead Control: There are actually a few animation spells that share the creation and control limits of Animate Dead, such as Plague of Undead, Ghoul Gauntlet and a few other's I've found so it was actually intended specifically for the Create Undead and Create Greater Undead spells that do NOT give you conrol over the created undead automatically (forcing the creator to go through the trouble of constantly renewing a Command Undead spell and that's pointlessly tedious). It is somewhat more important when I was considering adding in the ability to use either of those spells to create undead using the new templates created in the Libris Mortis or even many of the undead that ecist in it in the first place to give the character a wider variety of creatable pets as opposed to any other person with access to the spells. It certainly makes it easier to create your own Slaymate or Deathlock than begging your DM to have one show up just so you can use Rebuke/Command Undead on it and if it dies you're sol. Besides, all these undead have to be created one way or another, yet none of their descriptions say how. This would answer that problem.

Perfectly Animated Corpse: As you stated about Plague of Undead existing, the maxed out HP is not seen as a big deal to me since that spell alone lets you create skeletons or zombies (or draconic ones) without the HD limit of the Animate Dead spell itself, but you can't apply that maxed HP to undead of any other type or created from any other method. Though this ability was more meant to grant the saving thow bonus since raw HP isn't quite as important as that. Which is why I'd be ok with a spellcasting dip for this level.

Expanded create undead list: this is the base form of teh class feature I mentioned above as i had it written out the first time to widen the possibilities of animation and add some more variety to any proper undead army. Likely meant to go at level 2, 3 or 4. As for regular undead from the Libris mortis not mentioned in any creation swpell however, I was thinking of alloing them to be created with either Create Undead Spell with a proper corpse(s) as long as caster level was a least 2 more than the CR for anything CR 10 or less (using Create Undead) or 3 or 4 less for anything CR 11+(using Create Greater Undead)

From now on, they may now use the spell to animate any corpse of choice by applying one of the following templates onto it:
Gravetouched Ghoul
Necromental
Revived Fossil
Swarm Shifter (only 1 form)
Post template Cr of the animated corpse cannot exceed your caster level -2 (these templates are all mostly +1 to base creature CR or less than their HD)
While using Create Greater Undead, they may apply the following templates instead:
Death Knight
Ghost
Ghost Brute
Mummified Creature
Swarm Shifter (more than 1 form)
Umbral Creature
Vampire (a little iffy on this one)
Post template CR of the animated corpse cannot exceed your caster level -3 (these templates are +2 or higher base creature CR)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Though this ability was more meant to grant the saving thow bonus since raw HP isn't quite as important as that. Which is why I'd be ok with a spellcasting dip for this level.

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Oh wow, missed the save-boosting bit. That's a worthwhile capstone, yes, but it's not worth a caster level; why would enemies waste targeted SoDs on minions?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies

Oh wow, missed the save-boosting bit. That's a worthwhile capstone, yes, but it's not worth a caster level; why would enemies waste targeted SoDs on minions?

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Not necessarily SoD's but generally just any sort of ApE or damage spell with have a Fort or Reflex saving throw and more often than not, an undead minion won't be passing those with their poor saves on each, reflex is a maybe depending on what you animate.

Other than that, I'm considering actually dropping a few more spellcaster levels, adding in an ability like the true necromancer so that their animation, turning, and undead related spells are cast at character level and thus do not suffer. It would give me more leway with the existing abilities (with a few nerfs) so I could add some familiar like abilities too I have been thinking of adding.

Some ideas I've had suggested include letting the creator share spells with the undead he creates, or being able to perceive senses through them, possibly channel spells through them as a starting point or touch deliverer, being able to speak through them too for more utility use. Also considered allowing a free awaken undead effect to their creations. Also a summoning glyph they can place on maybe one or two strong undead that they can leave at home and use a spell slot to summon it from wherever it is and to their current location for a duration, fixing the issue that most of their best undead wont fit in most dungeon hallawys but can be used in the more spacious rooms (or as an emergency weapon) and lastly possibly creating a 'bonded' minion, like a specially connected cohort sort of thing from one of their undead that would keep advancing but gain stronger benefits than the rest for this connection.

At most, or all of these changes, I'd probably drop as many as 5 spellcasting levels total, this would leave the character at lv 20 with level 15 spellcasting and 8th level spells (denying them Plague of Undead as a spell and justifying the max hp effect more) and in exchange they'd have a stronger level of minion use and effectiveness overall.

alright wrote up a quick draft with the above mentioned changes, just to see how it would all look together.

Spellcasting: +1 per even numbered LotU level; all necromancy and undead related spells are cast at character level
Rebuke Undead: As per character level
Deadly Chill: free feat at level 1
Deathbound domain: Or death or undeath domain for free
Spell access: lv 2, add desecrate and inflict series of spell and harm to spell list or cast at +2 caster level
Unholy Vigor: lv 2, +1 per 2 levels enhancement for attack/damage rolls to undeead created; attacks count as unholy/evil for DR
Improved Corpsecrafter: lv 3, increases hitpoints of animated undead by an additional +1 hp/HD; gains an additional hp/HD at levels 6 and 9
Share Spells: lv 3, lets caster use any undead they have created/control as the starting point for any spells they cast or let them be the deliverer of touch spells; can also effect their undead with any personal cast spells in addition to their self
Tough corpse: lv 4, add +1 per 2 levels enhancement to natural armor or deflection bonus to AC
Share Senses: lv 4, can percieve any of the 5 senses through their undead and can even speak through them; can send/receive messages to intelligent undead drectly (must be on same plane)
Necropower: lv 5, undead gain +1 charisma/ class level and can use charisma in place of con for saves, skills and abilities (not for hp calculation)
Summoning Glyph: lv 5, can mkark 1 undead per 2 class levels to be summoned to your location (anywhere within 10 ft/caster level) on command and usable 1/day per class level; a single use can call as few as one to all of your marked undead at once; can be unsummoned back to where they were before summoning if desired
Undead Mastery: lv 6, Undead controled increases to (4+spellcaster stat ) x4/caster level; removes 20 hd and 10 hd limit for skeletons and zombies made with Animate Dead
Intelligent Undead: lv 7, undead you create are granted the benefits of the Awaken Undead spell for free; +1 intelligence per 2 class levels and can be above average for their race; regains speech if they had it before (if already intelligent they just gain the extra intel boost)
Undead control: lv 8, all undead created by you regardless of the spell used are controlled upon creation, following the HD limits of Animate Dead/Undead Mastery
Undead Legion: lv 8, undead with HD less than spellcasting stat do not count against your undead controlled hd limit
Expanded Creation list: lv 9, allows them to create new undead using any of the following templates on a preserved corpse:
From now on, they may now use Create Undead to animate any corpse of choice by applying one of the following templates onto it:
Bone Creature (technically already allowed but being specifically mentioned)
Corpse Creature (technically already allowed but being specifically mentioned)
Gravetouched Ghoul
Necromental
Revived Fossil
Swarm Shifter (only 1 form)
Post template Cr of the animated corpse cannot exceed caster level -2 (accounts for necromancy enhanced caster level)
While using Create Greater Undead, they may apply the following templates instead:
Death Knight
Mummified Creature
Swarm Shifter (more than 1 form)
Umbral Creature
Vampire
Post template CR of the animated corpse cannot exceed your caster level -3 (accounts for necromancy enhanced caster level)
When casting Create Undead or Greater Undead, they use the undead animation limits of Animate Dead (3x caster level max per animation due to deathbound domain)
Perfect Animation: lv 9, all undead created get max HP and add spellcaster stat to their saving thows
Dread Guard: lv 10, lets you bond a single undead you create as a special dread guard using any animation method available. can be replaced with a 24 hor ritual to bond a new undead in place of the current one. gains all benefits of the class boosts to animated undead as well as the following:
-gains HD as the master levels up, having upto thir level -2 (these can be actual class levels as chosen by the master, much like a regular cohort)
-may roll for base stats or use elite array (if replaced their stats will become standard again for their race)
-does not count against controlled undead limit
-is immune to turning
-gains the benefits of the Summoning Glyph without counting against the limit and can be summoned without limit
-can apply the bonus of unholy Vigor to manufactured weapond they weild, but it will superceed the enhancement bonus to attack/damage the weapon applies if any

Bumpy McBumbsalot?

OK so I made a properly typed up version of the rewrite from up above to make it easier to see what it gained when.

Lord of the Undead

Hit Die: d4

Requirements
To qualify to become a Lord of the Undead, character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge (Religion) OR (Arcana) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Feats: Corpsecrafter or the Enhanced Undead variant ability (same effects, do not stack)
Spells: Must be able to cast Animate Dead
Special: The Undead Mastery class feature may be used in place of the Corpsecrafter feat to qualify (effects are identical in regards to animated undead bonuses)

Class Skills
The Lord of the Undead's class skills are Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Gather Information, Heal, Knowledge (Any), Profession, Spellcraft.
Skill Points: 2 + Intelligence Modifier

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Lords of the Undead gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spells per Day: For every even numbered level the Lord of the Undead gains, they gain new spells per day as if they had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class they belonged to before they added the prestige class. They does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that they add half the level of Lord of the Undead to the level of whatever other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.
If a character had more than one spellcasting class before they became a Lord of the Undead, he must decide to which class they add each even level of Lord of the Undead for the purpose of determining spells per day.
The Lord of the Undead's caster level in regards to all spells dealing specifically with the undead however is treated as being their character level instead.
Rebuke Undead: The Lord of the Undead gains the ability to Rebuke and Command Undead as an evil Cleric would of his caster level for undead related spells, if he had this ability before, it will simply continue to improve as levels are gained.
Deadly Chill: At first level, a Lord of the Undead gains the benefits of any one Corpsecrafter feat of their choice for free.
Extra Domain: At first level, a Lord of the Undead gains all of the benefits of one of the following domains for free: Death, Deathbound, or Undeath. They will gain the related Domain Powers as well as the right to prepare them in domain slots, or add them to their spells known list as appropriate for their previous class.
Spell Access: At second level, a Lord of the Undead that was an arcane spellcaster automatically learns the following spells when they become available to them: Awaken Undead, Desecrate, Hallow, and all Inflict spells and Harm (as well as any spells specifically stated to apply to undead). If the Lord of the Undead was a Divine spellcaster will gain a +2 bonus to their caster level when using any of the aforementioned spells instead if they were already on their available spell list, otherwise they simply gain access to these spells.
Unholy Vigor: At second level, all undead created by the Lord of the Undead are granted an enhancement bonus to all attack and damage rolls equal to half their class level (rounded up) which will also make their attacks count as being evil aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Improved Corpsecrafter: At third level, the Lord of the Undead's enhancement bonuses to hit points per hit die for all undead they create is increased by an additional +1. This ability increases again at levels 6 and 9, each time raising the total boost by an equal amount, capping out at +5 hit points per hit die at level 9.
Share Spells: At third level, the Lord of the Undead gains a special link to all of the undead they have created, allowing them to channel their magic power through them. From now on, the LotU may designate any of their undead as the deliverer for touch spells they cast or even as the starting point for any spells they cast instead of themselves (such as making a zombie cast burning hands so they don't need to get in close range themselves). Additionally they may have any spells that effect himself or designate 'you' as the target may be applied to enhance up to one of his undead within 10ft per class level.
Tough Corpse: At fourth level, the Lord of the Undead grants all undead they create an additional +1 natural armor upon creation per two class levels. If the created undead is incorporeal however, this bonus is applied to their deflection bonus to AC instead.
Share Senses: At fourth level, the Lord of the Undead gains a more unique connection to any of their undead that allows them to experience any of the five senses through the perception of any undead they have created. This also gives them direct awareness of the location of every undead they have created as a result. They may also choose to use any of their undead as the source of their voice, speaking through them as well, which can potentially allow them to give mindless undead orders at a distance. Lastly, they may directly communicate mentally with any intelligent undead they have created similar to a form of direct telepathy.
Necropower: At fifth level, the Lord of the Undead can now apply a special enhancement bonus to the Charisma stat of any undead they have created equal to their class level; however incorporeal undead will only gain half of this bonus.
Summoning Glyph: At fifth level, the Lord of the Undead can place a special 'mark' on one undead they have created per two class levels. This special mark allows them to summon that particular undead to anywhere within 10 ft/caster level (uses their necromancy caster level) as a Standard Action. This summoning may be performed once per day per class level and lasts as long as desired or until dismissed, which sends the undead back to where they were prior to being summoned. A single use may be used to summon as few or as many undead as have been marked at once, as long as they are all brought into place within range. A 'mark' can be removed or placed upon a new minion as a Free Action.
Undead Mastery: At sixth level, the Lord of the Undead no longer controls a limit of only 4x Caster Level in undead. They now gain the ability to control a maximum amount of undead equal to (4+spellcasting ability modifier) x4 instead. This will allow Dread Necromancer and Lord of the Undead levels to stack for the purpose of determining their control limit. Lastly, this ability removes the HD cap on skeletons and zombies created via the Animate Dead spell (you can now make skeletons of 20+ HD and zombies of 10+ HD)
Intelligent Undead: At seventh level, the Lord of the Undead may now imbue any of their created undead (that have already been made or during animation) with the benefits of the Awaken Undead spell's effect with the following changes:
-the targets can have an Intelligence stat above average for their race
-this Intelligence imbued is increased by an additional +1 per 2 class levels
Undead Control: At eight level, the Lord of the Undead is permitted to automatically take control of any undead they create, regardless of the spell used or the effects that would state otherwise. This does of course follow the regular restrictions of the HD they can animate in a single casting and the maximum amount of HD worth in undead they may control at once.
[slash]Undead Legion: At eighth level, the Lord of the Undead may now treat any and all undead they control with less HD than their primary spellcasting modifier as nonexistent for determining if they have reached their limit or not. This ability does NOT account for any enhancement or otherwise temporary or conditional bonuses to their stat for determining the effects of this ability.[/slash]
Expanded Creation List: At ninth level, the Lord of the Undead gains an expanded list of undead that can be created using the spell Create Undead. From now on, they may now use the spell to animate any corpse of choice by applying one of the following templates onto it:
Bone Creature (technically already allowed but being specifically mentioned)
Corpse Creature (technically already allowed but being specifically mentioned)
Gravetouched Ghoul
Necromental
Revived Fossil
Post template Cr of the animated corpse cannot exceed your caster level -2 (uses Necromancy caster level)
While using Create Greater Undead, they may apply the following templates instead:
Death Knight
Mummified Creature
Umbral Creature
Vampire
Post template CR of the animated corpse cannot exceed your caster level -3 (uses Necromancy Caster level)
Perfectly Animated Corpse: At ninth level, the Lord of the Undead has perfected their animation of the dead and from now on all undead they create will automatically have the maximum hit points for their hit dice. They will also gain a bonus to all saving throws equal to the Death Lord's primary spellcasting ability modifier.
Dread Guard: At tenth level, the Lord of the Undead is permitted to bond a single undead they have created as a special dread guard using any animation method available. This designated guard can be replaced with a 24 hour ritual to bond a new undead in place of the current one (or replaced a destroyed one). This Dread Guard gains all benefits of this class' boosts to animated undead as well as the following changes:
-gains HD as the master levels up, having up to their level -2 (these can be actual class levels as chosen by the master, much like a regular cohort)
-may roll for base stats or use elite array (if replaced their stats will become standard again for their race)
-does not count against controlled undead limit
-is immune to turning
-gains the benefits of the Summoning Glyph without counting against the limit and can be summoned without limit
-can apply the bonus of Unholy Vigor to manufactured weapons they wield, but it will supersede the enhancement bonus to attack/damage the weapon applies if any

Level	BAB	Fort	Red	Will	Abilities	Spells per Day
1st	+0	+0	+0	+2	Rebuke Undead, Deadly Chill, Deathbound Domain	---
2nd	+1	+0	+0	+3	Spell Access, unholy Vigor	+1 level of existing spellcasting class
3rd	+1	+1	+1	+3	Improved Corpsecrafter (+3 hp/HD), Share Spells	---
4th	+2	+1	+1	+4	Tough Corpse, Share Senses	+1 level of existing spellcasting class
5th	+2	+1	+1	+4	Necropower, Summoning Glyph	---
6th	+3	+2	+2	+5	Improved Corpsecrafter (+4 hp/HD), Undead Mastery	+1 level of existing spellcasting class
7th	+3	+2	+2	+5	Intelligent Undead	---
8th	+4	+2	+2	+6	Undead Control, Undead Legion	+1 level of existing spellcasting class
9th	+4	+3	+3	+6	Improved Corpsecrafter (+5 hp/HD), Perfect Animated Corpse	---
10th	+5	+3	+3	+7	Dread Guard	+1 level of existing spellcasting class

bumpy bump?

Noobie for this stuff, so I could be wrong. The Intelligent Undead ability seems kinda pointless and a little overpowered. It is entirely conceivable that they wind up with +9 Int from their starting Int score, making an average of 16-17. I can understand removing the cap the Awaken Undead spell has, but maybe nerf the Int growth a little to +1/3 Class Levels? I just don't see much point in this ability since if you're going to have an undead spell caster you won't want a mindless one to begin with and if they're not mindless this ability won't have an effect on them.

On another note: what about giving full spell progression, but restricting the spells they can cast to the Necromancy school only? I'm not sure how that could be applied to Divine casters that take levels in the PrC, but just an idea to mull over.

Noobie question: What does PEACH even mean?

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Originally Posted by GrigoriFederov

Noobie question: What does PEACH even mean?

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Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Welcome to the forums!

I return! And I forgot about/missed this old thing haha xD;

Just got done reading my older work again and I'm going to need this thing again soon for an upcoming session so I figured I'd pump this bitch. Looking at it again I might still need a nerf in some places but I'm not completely sure yet after the last set of changes didn't really get any peer review.

And if anyone is curious, the ideal Companion would use levels of that old Death Knight class I need to fix up again but it can also be whatever. I'll prolly work on that tonight or tomorrow night.

Any new thoughts? Been thinking of getting all of the undead from the Libris Mortis ranked on the Create Undead spells (or in alternate versions to cover those maybe idk) as well as starting a fresh, clean thread for this...xp

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Hit Die: d4

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Standard for a caster PrC.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Requirements
To qualify to become a Lord of the Undead, character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge (Religion) OR (Arcana) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Feats: Corpsecrafter, Bolster Resistance
Spells: Must be able to cast Animate Dead
Special: The Undead Mastery class feature may be used in place of the Corpsecrafter feat to qualify (effects are identical in regards to animated undead bonuses)

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I suppose Knowledge (Arcana) is to make the class accessible to sorcerers, which is fine given they don't have Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill. However, I see two issues with the special requirement. First, you still cannot get into the class with Corpsecrafter since the requirements include Bolster Resistance, which has Corpsecrafter as a prerequisite. Thus, I suggest dropping the Bolster Resistance requirement altogether. Second, the Enhanced Undead class feature (and alternate class feature for necromancers) also gives the same benefits as Corpsecrafter, so I suggest adding it in as well.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Class Skills
The Lord of the Undead's class skills are Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge (Any), Profession, Spellcraft.
Skill Points: 2 + Intelligence Modifier

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I think you just copied the cleric's list of class skills and made a couple minor changes. Overall, I'd say Diplomacy makes absolutely no sense for a master of undead. Profession could be useful if the charater is expected to pass as a non-necromancer with a full-time job, but then you should add Bluff to the list of class skills as well (and possibly Disguise). You also forgot to add the tags to each skill, like (Con), (Int), (Wis), or (Cha).

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Lords of the Undead gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

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Seems standard.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Spells per Day: For every even numbered level the Lord of the Undead gains, they gain new spells per day as if they had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class they belonged to before they added the prestige class. They does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that they add half the level of Lord of the Undead to the level of whatever other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.
If a character had more than one spellcasting class before they became a Lord of the Undead, he must decide to which class they add each even level of Lord of the Undead for the purpose of determining spells per day.
The Lord of the Undead's caster level in regards to all necromancy spells and any spell dealing specifically with teh undead however is treated as being their character level instead.

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The last line is very powerful and should be its own separate abilities (I suggest you take a look at the Yathrinshee and the Green Star Adept to see how official classes dealt with such ability). Though I don't think that keying it by character level is really a good idea. The Abjurant Champion gets a similar class feature, but it is its 5th-level capstone. Like with the Yathrinshee, only levels in a caster class (or with abilities like Practiced Spellcaster) should count.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Rebuke Undead: The Lord of the Undead gains the ability to Rebuke and Command Undead as an evil Cleric would of his character level, if he had this ability before, it will simply continue to improve as levels are gained.

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Character level again? This should really be caster level.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Deadly Chill: At first level, a Lord of the Undead gains the benefits of the Deadly Chill feat for free.

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Why not let the Lord of the Undead choose a bonus feat of his choice from a small list? Does Deadly Chill make more thematic sense than Hardened Flesh or Nimble Bones for some reason?

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Deathbound Domain: At first level, a Lord of the Undead gains all of the benefits of the Deathbound domain, even if they would not normally be able to do so. If they were a divine caster, they gain the standard access as per normal domain rules as well as the granted domain power. If they were an arcane caster, they would gain access to each spell from the domain list just like their regular spells and would be permitted to prepare or spontaneously cast each spell once per day, as well as gaining the domain power. If the Death Lord already has the Deathbound Domain, then they may gain the benefits of the Death Domain or Undeath Domain instead.

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Hey, I have a suggestion here. Why not let them pick a domain of their choice from a small list? Also, any reason arcane spellcasters get more benefits from the domain than a cleric does (such as more domain spells per day and the ability to cast domain spell spontaneously)? I suggest you make the ability work as Arcane Disciple for arcane spellcasters (without the need to pick a deity or to apply it to a single arcane spellcasting class, obviously).

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Spell Access: At second level, a Lord of the Undead that was an arcane spellcaster automatically learns the following spells when they become available to them: Awaken Undead, Desecrate, Hallow, and all Inflict spells and Harm (as well as any spells specifically stated to apply to undead). If the Lord of the Undead was a Divine spellcaster will gain a +2 bonus to their caster level when using any of the aforementioned spells instead if they were not already on their available spell list, otherwise they simply gain access to these spells.

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No, you worked backwards here. As written, if a spell isn't on your list, you cast it at +2 caster level. If it is, then it gets added to your list a second time (which is fairly useless). I also see no reason to separate arcane from divine casters here. Simply add these spells on the character's class list(s) and list of spells known, state that they get a +2 bonus to caster level with these spells if they already know any of them or are a prepared caster who gets these spells on his class list, and call it a day.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Unholy Vigor: At second level, all undead created by the Lord of the Undead are granted an enhancement bonus to all attack and damage rolls equal to half their class level (rounded up). This will apply to their natural weapon attacks only which will also count as being unholy/evil aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

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You are making a contradiction, first stating it applies to all attack rolls, then only to those made with natural weapons. Also, there is no such thing as damage reduction /unholy. There is damage reduction /evil, but not /unholy.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Improved Corpsecrafter: At third level, the Lord of the Undead's enhancement bonuses to hit points per hit die for all undead they create is increased by an additional +1. This ability increases again at levels 6 and 9, each time raising the total boost by an equal amount, capping out at +5 hit points per hit die at level 9.

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What if I stack Enhanced Undead, Undead Mastery, Corpsecrafter, Desecrate and this ability all together? How many bonus hit points would my undead get?

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Share Spells: At third level, the Lord of the Undead gains a special link to all of the undead they have created, allowing them to channel their magic power through them. From now on, the LotU may designate any of their undead as the deliverer for touch spells they cast or even as the starting point for any spells they cast instead of themselves (such as making a zombie cast burning hands so they don't need to get in close range themselves). Additionally they may have any spells that effect himself or designate 'you' as the target may be applied to enhance up to one of his undead within 30ft per class level.

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LotU? Also, why do Personal spells suddenly end up with a better range than Close spells, Touch spells, and in some case Medium range spells?

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Tough Corpse: At fourth level, the Lord of the Undead grants all undead they create an additional +1 natural armor upon creation per two class levels. If the created undead is incorporeal however, this bonus is applied to their deflection bonus to AC instead.

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Does it stack with Hardened Skin?

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Share Senses: At fourth level, the Lord of the Undead gains a more unique connection to any of their undead that allows them to experience any of the five senses through the perception of any undead they have created. This also gives them direct awareness of the location of every undead they have created as a result. They may also choose to use any of their undead as the source of their voice, speaking through them as well, which can potentially allow them to give mindless undead orders at a distance. Lastly, they may directly communicate mentally with any intelligent undead they have created similar to a form of direct telepathy.

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Actually more of a fluff ability.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Necropower: At fifth level, the Lord of the Undead can now apply a special enhancement bonus to the Charisma stat of any undead they have created equal to their class level. Furthermore, their undead can now use their Charisma score in place of where Constitution was used before; Fortitude saving throws and any save DCs from abilities they've retained that were previously based on Constitution (but not hit points).

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Undead already use Charisma for everything that normally involves Charisma, so you should rewrite it as just adding a bonus to their Fortitude saves equal to their Charisma modifier. Maybe also add a minimum of +0, so undead with really low Charisma don't get penalized for it. Also, +10 Charisma over 10 class levels? You should rather put a lower limit on Charisma based on level, so that zombies can actually end up with a Charisma of 11 (at 10th level in the class) without giving a +10 bonus to Charisma to things that are already high on it, such as any incorporeal undead (who as written effectively get +5 AC).

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Summoning Glyph: At fifth level, the Lord of the Undead can place a special 'mark' on one undead they have created per two class levels. This special mark allows them to summon that particular undead to anywhere within 10 ft/caster level (uses their necromancy caster level) as a Standard Action. This summoning may be performed once per day per class level and lasts as long as desired or until dismissed, which sends the undead back to where they were prior to being summoned. A single use may be used to summon as few or as many undead as have been marked at once, as long as they are all brought into place within range. A 'mark' can be removed or placed upon a new minion as a Free Action.

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Summon? So even if the undead is killed it will reform at its normal location in 24 hours? I think this brings the term expendable minion to a whole new level. You can basically afford to lose 1 minion/2 class levels a day and have them back by tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Undead Mastery: At sixth level, the Lord of the Undead no longer controls a limit of only 4x Caster Level in undead. They now gain the ability to control a maximum amount of undead equal to (4+spellcasting ability modifier) x4 instead. This will allow Dread Necromancer and Lord of the Undead levels to stack for the purpose of determining their control limit. Lastly, this ability removes the HD cap on skeletons and zombies created via the Animate Dead spell (you can now make skeletons of 20+ HD and zombies of 10+ HD)

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This... doesn't work like that. A dread necromancer 20 gets 320 HD of undead (assuming a Charisma of 34). A cleric 5/wizard 5/mystic theurge 10 gets 120 HD. A character with this feat gets caped at 64 HD (assuming a 34 in the relevant ability score). As written, the class feature nerfs the character instead of helping him. I still don't see any way dread necromancer is going to help; for that it should be "adds his Charisma modifier * class level to the amount of undead he can control with Animate Dead", or similar. Also, removing the HD cap on Animate Dead is just plainly broken. Even with the nerfed control limit, you can control a 64 HD skeleton, which by the rules has a CR of 19. While a minion with a CR of 19 is not the worse you could do at 20th level, it is still better than a cohort, and you get to add all kinds of nifty things to it, including 512 bonus hit points (from Corpsecrafter + desecrate + the dread necromancer class feature or the wizard alternate class feature + improved corpsecrafter). Definitely broken, especially with optimization.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Intelligent Undead: At seventh level, the Lord of the Undead may now imbue any of their created undead (that have already been made or during animation) with the benefits of the Awaken Undead spell's effect with the following changes:
-the targets can have an Intelligence stat above average for their race
-this Intelligence imbued is increased by an additional +1 per 2 class levels

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This needs some reworking.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Undead Control: At eight level, the Lord of the Undead is permitted to automatically take control of any undead they create, regardless of the spell used or the effects that would state otherwise. This does of course follow the regular restrictions of the HD they can animate in a single casting and the maximum amount of HD worth in undead they may control at once.

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So this ability is for Create Undead. Fine. Now you won't be getting a 64 HD skeleton. You will be getting a 64 HD bone creature.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Undead Legion: At eighth level, the Lord of the Undead may now treat any and all undead they control with less HD than their primary spellcasting modifier as nonexistent for determining if they have reached their limit or not. This ability does NOT account for any enhancement or otherwise temporary or conditional bonuses to their stat for determining the effects of this ability.

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Fine, so your 64 HD bone creature is surrounded with an infinite amount of 12 HD or less skeletons. At least you have a good lieutenant to control them when you're away.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Expanded Creation List: At ninth level, the Lord of the Undead gains an expanded list of undead that can be created using the spell Create Undead. From now on, they may now use the spell to animate any corpse of choice by applying one of the following templates onto it:
Bone Creature (technically already allowed but being specifically mentioned)
Corpse Creature (technically already allowed but being specifically mentioned)
Gravetouched Ghoul
Necromental
Revived Fossil
Swarm Shifter (only 1 form)
Post template Cr of the animated corpse cannot exceed your caster level -2 (uses Necromancy caster level)
While using Create Greater Undead, they may apply the following templates instead:
Death Knight
Mummified Creature
Swarm Shifter (more than 1 form)
Umbral Creature
Vampire
Post template CR of the animated corpse cannot exceed your caster level -3 (uses Necromancy Caster level)

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Swarm Shifter is a template applied to an undead creature. It does not turn a living creature into an undead, unlike the others on the list. Also, I think a monster's CR should remain a meta concept, not something that dictates how the rules work. Most of the time, a monster's HD and CR are close to each other. But in the cases where it isn't (I dunno... bone creature evolved spirit naga?), you can get some pretty good stuff (a huge-sized, 27-HD creature with 7 levels of sorcerer casting, a BAB of 20, and a poison with a save DC of 31 for 1d8 Con damage, all for CR 17). At the other extreme, you can control an infinite amount of 1st-level paragon corpse creatures (elite zombies?) or 12th-level swarm shifter death knights, thanks to an earlier class feature.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Perfectly Animated Corpse: At ninth level, the Lord of the Undead has perfected their animation of the dead and from now on all undead they create will automatically have the maximum hit points for their hit dice. They will also gain a bonus to all saving throws equal to the Death Lord's primary spellcasting ability modifier.
Dread Guard: At tenth level, the Lord of the Undead is permitted to bond a single undead they have created as a special dread guard using any animation method available. This designated guard can be replaced with a 24 hour ritual to bond a new undead in place of the current one (or replaced a destroyed one). This Dread Guard gains all benefits of this class' boosts to animated undead as well as the following changes:
-gains HD as the master levels up, having up to their level -2 (these can be actual class levels as chosen by the master, much like a regular cohort)
-may roll for base stats or use elite array (if replaced their stats will become standard again for their race)
-does not count against controlled undead limit
-is immune to turning
-gains the benefits of the Summoning Glyph without counting against the limit and can be summoned without limit
-can apply the bonus of Unholy Vigor to manufactured weapons they wield, but it will supersede the enhancement bonus to attack/damage the weapon applies if any

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These are kind of big benefits, aren't they? However, their purpose (a 9th- and 10th-level capstone) is obvious.

Sweet, in depth review!! =D

HD: Yep, they shouldn't be hard to kill if they get a bunch of powered up undead.

Requirements: I can take out Bolster Resistance or change it to 'any other corpsecrafter feat' and honestly for simplicity, I'd say that the Corpsecrafter effect for Necromancer variants just counts as the feat for free (so they could take the feats using it as a prerequisite) but I can make a note for that as well.

Class Skills: yea no denying that. But yes those skills do certainly make sense for them to have. I probably should drop Diplomacy for Gather Information since body hunting is a full time job.

Proficiency: Yup.

Spellcasting: Actually it was derived from the True Necromancer's passive effect in regards to the Animate/create undead spells. I must have missed the 'all necromancy spells' but it should still be applying to all things specifically dealing with undead like the animate, create, revive spells, seel bones, etc, etc and the like.

Rebuke/Command: I shall change it to 'effective animate undead caster level' instead so if they have some odd martial multiclassing it wont keep rising.

Deadly Chill: It's one of my personal faves, but I shall change this to let them choose any corpsecrafter feat they do not already have of their choice.

Deathbound Domain: Changing to 'gain the benefits of one domain from the following list of Death, Undeath, or Deathbound. Arcane casters will add the spells to their list of spells known as well as the related Domain power as well.

Spell Access: Oh my bad, I wrote that backwards, it's supposed to be +2 if they already know said spells...oops ^^;;

Unholy Vigor: Hm...so I did. Taken out the natural part and it applies to all their attack/damage rolls.

Improved Corpsecrafter: Undead Mastery isnt giving Hp...? That's an epic feat. And the Necromancer Variant is the same as Corpsecrafter itself. so you really wouldn't have both? With Desecrate up, thats like +7 HP per hit die at max.

Share Spells: LotU (Lord of the Undead); also given it's at 3rd level, I'm dropping this range to 10 ft per lvl in this class.

Tough Corpse: Yes. Because Natural AC is nothing compared to dodge/deflection related bonuses and thats +7 at max. 90% of undead have ****ty ac to start with as well.

Share Senses: Yes but it's useful sometimes and just kinda makes sense if they're so focused on their undead.

Necropower: Er, Zombie's start at 1. so idk how I'd get a zombie to 11 but *not* give an incorporeal undead +10 unless I blatantly said 'corporeal undead get +1/level, but incorporeal get +1/2 levels'. That might not be so bad actually...

Summoning Glyph: Um no. It's not a freebee summon from another dimension like a Paladin Mount. It's just a specialized 'teleportation' of your minions only. If its destroyed in battle after you call it, then it's destroyed for real just as per normal if you don't have any revive undead spells ready...

Undead Mastery: This...works exactly as the Dread Necromancer works just without being explicitly Charisma based. If this is a character level 20 rpc of spellcaster 10 and this class 10, they'd get 320 HD undead total as well with 34 in their main stat. Furthermore, the Animate Undead Spell itself blatantly says that they can only create Caster level x2 in HD of undead with a single cast so even at character level 20 with their caster level as 20 (for undead spells only) they could create a 40 HD skeleton/zombie at best without some caster level hacking or something.

Intelligent Undead: Uh...what's needed to be altered exactly...?

Undead Control: 40 HD, as explained above.

Undead Legion: Potentially removable or limited to saying only like...2-4 HD undead only are neglibable for control since stats can be +10 or higher at that level with high end builds...

Expanded Creation List: You've a point on the swarm shifter template and this ability won't allow them to just add class levels or the paragon template (which honestly we all know is never used in any game ever save for a dm making strong enemies he knows the players cant abuse for themselves). I can remove swarm shifter and state that each alternate type obeys the x2 caster level limit of animate dead for creation and the templates themselves count as a few extra undead for that creation limit?

Also was meaning to add in all the other non template undead from the libris mortis without specified creation rules that every necromancer wants like deathlocks and slaymates. Or just any other cool undead like boneyards or something.

Perfectly Animated Corpse: They lose out of the 9th level spell that does this in regards to zombies/skeletons because of the nerfed caster progression but in exchange get this for every undead they can make instead.

Dread Guard: I can and prolly should have it take up a normal glyph slot and the last part is uneeded with teh changes to vigor itself as noted above.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Requirements: I can take out Bolster Resistance or change it to 'any other corpsecrafter feat' and honestly for simplicity, I'd say that the Corpsecrafter effect for Necromancer variants just counts as the feat for free (so they could take the feats using it as a prerequisite) but I can make a note for that as well.

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You could make it an houserule that goes with the prestige class, but it is just that; an houserule. Officially, they are still differently named but mechanically similar abilities.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Class Skills: yea no denying that. But yes those skills do certainly make sense for them to have. I probably should drop Diplomacy for Gather Information since body hunting is a full time job.

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Makes sense

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Spellcasting: Actually it was derived from the True Necromancer's passive effect in regards to the Animate/create undead spells. I must have missed the 'all necromancy spells' but it should still be applying to all things specifically dealing with undead like the animate, create, revive spells, seel bones, etc, etc and the like.

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True necromancer gets nothing of the sorts. They receive a bonus on caster level when casting necromancy spells (not just those related to undead).

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Rebuke/Command: I shall change it to 'effective animate undead caster level' instead so if they have some odd martial multiclassing it wont keep rising.

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Effective caster level is different from caster level. Permanent effects like Necromantic Prowess and Practiced Spellcaster increase the caster level, but the effective caster level is equal to the permanent caster level + temporary effects. Spells use effective caster level for most things, but the control limit on Animate Dead is a notable exception.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Deathbound Domain: Changing to 'gain the benefits of one domain from the following list of Death, Undeath, or Deathbound. Arcane casters will add the spells to their list of spells known as well as the related Domain power as well.

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No Arcane Disciple bonus feat then? At least it wouldn't let them use a domain spell more times per day than an actual cleric (as many times per day as they have spell slots, versus 1 time per day per spell level).

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Improved Corpsecrafter: Undead Mastery isnt giving Hp...? That's an epic feat. And the Necromancer Variant is the same as Corpsecrafter itself. so you really wouldn't have both? With Desecrate up, thats like +7 HP per hit die at max.

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Not the epic feat, the necromancy specialist variant. Making it the same as Corpsecrafter is an houserule, it is not an official rule, as Realms of Chaos noted earlier in the thread. By RAW, most of the things I listed stack (a slightly less broken interpretation is that the necromancy specialist variant only applies to spells cast as a wizard, and the dread necromancer class feature only applies to spells cast as a dread necromancer, but all the other things definitely stack).

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Share Spells: LotU (Lord of the Undead); also given it's at 3rd level, I'm dropping this range to 10 ft per lvl in this class.

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I was poking you on your sudden use of an abbreviation (you used it only there) in a place where the long name should have been used.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Necropower: Er, Zombie's start at 1. so idk how I'd get a zombie to 11 but *not* give an incorporeal undead +10 unless I blatantly said 'corporeal undead get +1/level, but incorporeal get +1/2 levels'. That might not be so bad actually...

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I was very clear on what I meant. Reword it "If an undead created by the Lord of the Undead would have (or currently has) a Charisma score lower than 1 + its Lord of the Undead class level, it is raised to this amount. When the Lord of the Undeath's class level increases, the threshold changes, and creatures with a Charisma score lower than the new threshold have their Charisma score raised to the new amount." You'll get zombies with 11 Charisma, but no spectre with 25 (or devourer with 27).

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Summoning Glyph: Um no. It's not a freebee summon from another dimension like a Paladin Mount. It's just a specialized 'teleportation' of your minions only. If its destroyed in battle after you call it, then it's destroyed for real just as per normal if you don't have any revive undead spells ready...

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Then don't use the words summon or summoning at all. Rename it teleportation glyph and consistently say it teleports (does not summon) the undead to you. Summoning has a clearly defined meaning in the rules of D&D, and that meaning includes the notion that a summoned creature doesn't die if killed as a summoned creature, merely taking 24 hours to reform to its home plane.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Undead Mastery: This...works exactly as the Dread Necromancer works just without being explicitly Charisma based. If this is a character level 2"0 rpc of spellcaster 10 and this class 10, they'd get 320 HD undead total as well with 34 in their main stat. Furthermore, the Animate Undead Spell itself blatantly says that they can only create Caster level x2 in HD of undead with a single cast so even at character level 20 with their caster level as 20 (for undead spells only) they could create a 40 HD skeleton/zombie at best without some caster level hacking or something.

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Wrong and wrong. The dread necromancer ability gives a control limit of (4 + Charisma modifier) * class level. This ability gives a control limit of (4 + Charisma modifier) * 4. Unless your caster level actually is 4, the former is way, way better than the later. Furthermore, I'm beginning to assume you don't know enough about how to be a necromancer in D&D. Desecrate is neither a caster level hack, nor a shenanigan. The 64 HD skeleton I gave as an example? It only requires a caster level of 16.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Intelligent Undead: Uh...what's needed to be altered exactly...?

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Try this: "At seventh level, any mindless undead created by the lord of the undeath receive benefits equivalent to the Awaken Undead spell, except it grants an Intelligence score of (1d6+4) plus one-half the lord of the undeath's class level, and isn't limited by the Intelligence score that the undead creature had in life."

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Undead Legion: Potentially removable or limited to saying only like...2-4 HD undead only are neglibable for control since stats can be +10 or higher at that level with high end builds...

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Seems to work.

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Originally Posted by Ryunosuke

Expanded Creation List: You've a point on the swarm shifter template and this ability won't allow them to just add class levels or the paragon template (which honestly we all know is never used in any game ever save for a dm making strong enemies he knows the players cant abuse for themselves). I can remove swarm shifter and state that each alternate type obeys the x2 caster level limit of animate dead for creation and the templates themselves count as a few extra undead for that creation limit?

Also was meaning to add in all the other non template undead from the libris mortis without specified creation rules that every necromancer wants like deathlocks and slaymates. Or just any other cool undead like boneyards or something.

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As is often the case when paragon creature actually gets discussed, this is a thought experiment. I still think CR is not a good way to judge a monster's power level, so what about the following: base creature's HD plus template's LA must be equal to or lower than the lord of the undead's caster level.

Of the listed templates with an LA, you have: death knight (LA +5), ghost (LA +5), ghost brute (LA +5), gravetouched ghoul (LA +2), mummified creature (LA +4), and vampire (LA +8). Umbral creature should be LA +5, based on a similar template from Savage Species (assuming the base creature's class levels are retained; the Libris Mortis version is weird in that regard). Ignoring Swarm Shifter, the only templates on the list without an LA actually are bone creature, corpse creature, necromental and revived fossil. I'd go with LA +2 for the first two, to make them viable options against gravetouched ghoul, and maybe LA +1 for the other two.

Swarm Shifter has no LA, which I actually think is an overlook from WotC's part. I'd place it at about LA +3 at best, maybe LA +2, with a +1 increase for every 2 swarm forms beyond the first.

For deathlock, use the ghast as a balance point. For slaymate, use the mummy.

Requirements: Making it just the Corpsecrafter Feat or that ability to keep it simple.

Spellcasting: They get the ability to cast Create Undead and Create Greater undead as spell-like abilities (letting them neglect gp costs which I've considered for this class as well) and the abilities each stat they have an effective caster level of their character level plus that necromantic prowess bonus.

Rebuke/Command: Practiced Spellcaster will do nothing because the effective caster level is already matching their character level (that feat specifically states it wont go above your character level since its for multiclassing) And I doubt anyone taking this is suddenly going to multiclass another, less effective necromancy PrC as well for a few +1 caster levels...

Free Domain: That feat does not actually provide them with teh domain ability (most important for deathbound or undeath) and that feat merely adds the spell to their list of choices, not officially known spells and forces them to use wisdom for it and each can be cast once per day period. It's actually fairly restrictive.

Improved Corpsecrafter: If that's the case and they're min/max powergaming anyways, then +3hp/hd of their undead is far from the most broken thing possible if they've gone out of their way to stack all of that already anyways.

Share Spells: Oh :p i'll fix that.

Necropower: No that's useless to anything that actually benefits from charisma like incorporeal undead and I also remember why it was +1/level originally and that's because hardened flesh and tough corpse are both worthless to incorporeal undead and so they'd end up with an extra +5 deflection where other undead had +7 natural armor at max.

Glyph: hm...I guess so...I'll make a change for that to state its merely calling them to your current location via linked teleportation.

Mastery: I now see my math type where it should be (4+caster stat)*level not *4. totally my bad there. Also I suppose in hindsight the access to bone creature/corpse creature templates later make higher hd plain skeletons/zombies a waste of cash so i can remove that last part.

Intelligent Undead: that does read cleaner I admit.

Legion: Yea it can stop at like 4 hd so they can still have **** tons of basic undead guarding their bases an **** ;p

Expanded List: HD +LA vs caster level (which is their character level now) would actually make a lot more sense and restrict more overpowered combinations so I'll change that and then add in a list of caster levels to create all the other undead from libris mortis and maybe a few other monster manuals as well.


I will make these changes later tonight, I had to post this reply kinda rushed before going somewhere but just wanted this up at least before I ran off xp

Finally updated the original post with all current changes and the expanded list uses the ECL of anything created and it must always be 2 less than the Lord of the Undead's caster level for undead related spells. They can use it for adding templates to the base corpse or may use it to make any monster undead they are high enough level to make with these restrictions.

You didn't remove the CR restriction on what can be animated or not, which is redundant with the ECL restriction. While there are also a few more issues that might come up (some monsters have an LA of -, for instance), I think keying things off ECL is a good idea overall.

Sorry that was my bad. Replaced 'CR' with 'ECL' for the full description now. ^-^

Now I know there isn't currently anything that can just add levels/hit dice to an existing undead at this time with official material, but whats the general consensus on a minor artifact/magical item or mid level spell that allows you to either add on extra hit dice or class levels (intelligent only) to your existing undead? these extras would still count against commanding limits of course and there would be a limit to the max hd total based on if its undead racial or class levels used.

I'm also curious if I can get away with an ability (or just a custom magic item) that can negate the material component cost for undead creation for a single large lump sum up front.

Lastly, I'll start work on my fixed Death Knight undead general this week sometime and am curious if a martial adept or non adept version would be preferred?

Bump of love!

This is interesting. It may be a flavourful progression once my PC finishes Dread Necromancer 20/Epic Dread Necromancer 10 (also homebrew from this very website). I'm adding it to my favourites for now.

Spells per day/Caster level - You might want to change this just to Necromancy spells. It's cleaner, and won't lead to any arguments about what an undead-affecting spell is.

Rebuke Undead - Why the comment about caster level? Why not class or character level, which would be more normal?

Bonus Feat - I understand what you mean, but in D&D terms what you're looking for is "At 1st level, the Lord of the Undead gains a single feat that has Corpsecrafter as a prerequisite." Or something similar.

Extra Domain - Going to need to clear this up. Right now you get to prepare Domain Powers in the domain spell slots, which isn't possible. I would also clean up whether they learn the spells or not (clerics wouldn't, for instance).

Spell Access - As written, the Arcanes don't gain any spells, because they never become available to them. Likewise, that "any spell that affects the undead" is too unclear.

Unholy Vigor - Is this the Undead's class level, or the Lord's? It's unclear. Because if it's the undead's, that's hugely powerful.

Improved Corpsecrafter - This is going to end up with undead having pretty huge HP totals, because they'll be at a 11.5+ hp/hd by the end of this.

Share Spells - Can the Lord see through his undead's eyes to cast spells, or can he just use them as the origin? One is much more useful than the other.

Tough Corpse - Again, Undead class level or Lord's?

Share Senses - Range? Action to activate/cancel? Does the Lord become unaware of his own surroundings if he's using undead senses?

Necropower - Again, Undead class level or Lord's?

Summon - Are the undead destroyed if they're killed while summoned, or do they just go back to where they were before?

Undead Mastery - This can increase the cap from 4x to somewhere above 20x - that's a steep jump, and a reason all the WotC classes have more of a cap on it.

Intelligent Undead - Again, Undead class level or Lord's?

Undead Legion - Is this a removed ability?

Perfectly Animated - Undead at this point have 17 HP/HD. This is nuts when talking skellies and zombies, among others. As well as giving a gigantic save boost.

Dread Guard - Undead HD are generally well above CR, meaning that most undead would actually have to lose HD to qualify for some of the boosts this provides. Also, I would say this is actually one of the weakest abilities given to this class, if not the weakest. It's certainly not the capstone.

On another note, you probably want to take the revised version and edit it into the header post - right now that's where most people are going to look.

For simplicity, all question or concerns are answered in bold underneath each. =w=b
Also apologize for forgetting about this, life got busy for a while xD;;

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Originally Posted by Stratovarius

Spells per day/Caster level - You might want to change this just to Necromancy spells. It's cleaner, and won't lead to any arguments about what an undead-affecting spell is.
There are spells that affect the undead that are actually not necromancy spells such as Iron Bones for example. I wanted to include all of said spells without having to spend hours sourcing every single outlier spell I could find that existed

Rebuke Undead - Why the comment about caster level? Why not class or character level, which would be more normal?
I wanted to avoid some cross class gish abuse but then again if you choose this PrC anyways I doubt there's any optimization going on besides necromancing this class all the way through so I made the suggested change.

Bonus Feat - I understand what you mean, but in D&D terms what you're looking for is "At 1st level, the Lord of the Undead gains a single feat that has Corpsecrafter as a prerequisite." Or something similar.
Reworded

Extra Domain - Going to need to clear this up. Right now you get to prepare Domain Powers in the domain spell slots, which isn't possible. I would also clean up whether they learn the spells or not (clerics wouldn't, for instance).
I blatantly say 'prepare in domain slots or add to spells known list' so it can't be clearer than that. a Cleric can use domain slots, a Wizard, Dread Necromancer, Sorcerer, or Favored soul would simply learn them.

Spell Access - As written, the Arcanes don't gain any spells, because they never become available to them. Likewise, that "any spell that affects the undead" is too unclear.
added in the conditional "using the lowest spell level that any base class caster learns them" to clarify when someone that doesn't have them as spells on their list normally can learn them. The other part is like the spells per day for the non-necromancy spells that can influence the undead

Unholy Vigor - Is this the Undead's class level, or the Lord's? It's unclear. Because if it's the undead's, that's hugely powerful.
Its the level of the PrC I don't understand by any logical reasoning that you would ever use the undead's 'level' which doesn't even exist. they have Racial hit dice and an ECL. All of these abilities us the level of this PrC itself as any other PrC would use for scaling abilities.

Improved Corpsecrafter - This is going to end up with undead having pretty huge HP totals, because they'll be at a 11.5+ hp/hd by the end of this.
this maxes at +7 HP/HD if you use a Desecrate spell with a statue of your deity in it at level 9 in this PrC. Given that undead typically have lower CR for their HD than most other monsters, not to mention their atrocious saves and BAB for their racial HD, ****ty natural armor. Not to mention many undead have common vulnerabilities and are easily destroyed with things like turn undead, especially a pelor cleric or one using that feat from Complete Divine that copies the Sun Domain power.

Share Spells - Can the Lord see through his undead's eyes to cast spells, or can he just use them as the origin? One is much more useful than the other.
He cannot see through them to cast until the next level is gained and the ability specifically made to share their sight is gained.

Tough Corpse - Again, Undead class level or Lord's?
answered this above

Share Senses - Range? Action to activate/cancel? Does the Lord become unaware of his own surroundings if he's using undead senses?
Currently, there is no range. save perhaps another plane/dimension. No action officially just like speaking or the like wouldn't be and logically yes, he would lose his own surrounding perception since he would be perceiving from the undead (taking perception from 2 points at once would be insane)

Necropower - Again, Undead class level or Lord's?
again, answered above

Summon - Are the undead destroyed if they're killed while summoned, or do they just go back to where they were before?
it is clearly stated that this is not actually summoning and is a mere teleportation based effect. if they get destroyed cuz you called them in and they get blasted they're gone.

Undead Mastery - This can increase the cap from 4x to somewhere above 20x - that's a steep jump, and a reason all the WotC classes have more of a cap on it.
this is literally the same ability a Dread Necromancer gains at level 8. This just makes it so you can have the same or stack levels in this PrC with Dread Necromancer for it since the Necromancer's ability at lv 8 only works with their base class levels officially.

Intelligent Undead - Again, Undead class level or Lord's?
once again, answered above.

Undead Legion - Is this a removed ability?
no? it's right there in the first post.

Perfectly Animated - Undead at this point have 17 HP/HD. This is nuts when talking skellies and zombies, among others. As well as giving a gigantic save boost.
Undead have a bad set of saves for ALL saves. Also this ability is only here to account for the fact that the Lord of the Undead can never gain the spell Plague of the Undead (it's a 9th level spell) which does exactly this in regards to creating Max HP undead (not the saves though that's unique to this ability)

Dread Guard - Undead HD are generally well above CR, meaning that most undead would actually have to lose HD to qualify for some of the boosts this provides. Also, I would say this is actually one of the weakest abilities given to this class, if not the weakest. It's certainly not the capstone.
this uses the ECL of the undead, not the HD and can be made from any of the unique templates supplied by the preceding ability that alters the Animate Undead Spells. Bone/Corpse Creature are particularly effective for the dread guard who will also gain the benefits of all undead boosts provided by the class, a free summon glyph and it levels with the master for free and can even gain actual class levels, unlike all other undead which would need to be constantly replaced as you get into higher and higher level campaigns, dungeons, etc

On another note, you probably want to take the revised version and edit it into the header post - right now that's where most people are going to look.
I did that before. the first post is the fully revised version.

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-annoyed sigh as all these stupid spam threads makes him have to bump this off the second page-